Astral/H3X
Member
Ooohhhh I need to check that out. Is it actually good for making stuff, or is it still just "proof of concept" right now?
Oculus Rift DK2 Thread
- Thread starter PGamer
- Start date
Even beyond the Rift judder, Elite Dangerous has been giving me unshakable microstutter every few seconds for the last six months. It's infuriating.
I'd play that game so hard if it would just work properly.
I think that's what I've been running into. There are times (brief periods) where the head tracking is totally smooth, but the game gives me the tiniest stutters very frequently. I'll have to go back and mess with it eventually.
Big Takeover
Member
Oh look epmode, you've got a buddy! Hopefully two heads will be better than one, and you guys can get this figured out.
Elite runs 100% perfectly 85% of the time for me. AO off, nothing special settings on a 780ti.
Elite runs 100% perfectly 85% of the time for me. AO off, nothing special settings on a 780ti.
I feel like such a traitor but when it comes to Elite I've basically abandoned the DK2 in favour of my TrackIR. Turns out, it wasn't the stutter or the eye strain or the IQ that got me to take off the rift, it was the complete inability to do anything else but stare at the void of space for hours on end. At least with the TrackIR I can read IRC and twitter. 
Still, with Unity making rift dev accessable to anyone, I'll keep this thing around to actually (shock and awe) develop rift support onto my game.
Still, with Unity making rift dev accessable to anyone, I'll keep this thing around to actually (shock and awe) develop rift support onto my game.
Well, if you ever figure something out, please stop by here and let us know:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=86133
I've been trying to fix the stutter for ages. Nothing helps.
What recentering issues? Like, the Rift calibration is off and it thinks you have your head tilted in a crazy direction even though you're looking straight ahead? That's what's happening to me. The only way I can fix it is by craning my head to compensate before centering the view.
Yeah, that's what everyone's getting I think. In pretty much every other Rift application, recentering seems to only affect your position and your yaw. In Alien, though, it seems that whatever pitch and roll your head is at when you recenter (or when the game starts) becomes the new normal, so you have to fiddle with recentering the world to make it seem like everything is not at a tilt.
I'd love to know a way as well. I couldn't kill it in Windows 7, and I'm totally convinced it's because HL2 in VR mode is relying on Windows desktop composition for its vsync. The best I could do was a very minor periodic stutter.
It's pretty funny how the biggest games (Elite, Alien, HL2) are all so close to perfect for me but none are quite there. And not because of insurmountable issues rooted in the fundamental differences between VR and traditional gaming, but because of shit like microstutter and abnormal positional resetting. At least Quake 2 is flawless, lol.
It's pretty funny how the biggest games (Elite, Alien, HL2) are all so close to perfect for me but none are quite there. And not because of insurmountable issues rooted in the fundamental differences between VR and traditional gaming, but because of shit like microstutter and abnormal positional resetting. At least Quake 2 is flawless, lol.
Undead Hero
Member
Hm, I didn't have this issue. Recentering worked exactly as it should. Are you guys loading the game up with the Rift on your face and ready to go?
Generally that's how I do it, yeah. It might help to boot it up with my Rift on a flat surface, I'll give it a shot. I'd figure that my position would be out of whack, though, and resetting would just bring all the problems back.
Basic scenes in UE4 run perfectly for me, there's nothing inherent in the engine that causes stuttering or anything like that. More complex scenes are demanding, of course, but Epic has supplied some suggested Rift settings for the engine that help a lot.
That's good to hear. This might sound odd, but I don't actually care much about graphical powerhouses when it comes to the rift. Like, sure, as much as I'd love to walk around Ethan Carter with the rift on, I think there's just as much you can do with low poly models and simple textures.
I'll go have a fiddle with unity in the next few days and see what that's like.
I'll go have a fiddle with unity in the next few days and see what that's like.
Mechanical Snowman
Member
I'm getting 75FPS with an interior scene I'm building in UE4 that is quite high poly, with 1K and 2K texture maps. Some of things that seem to be performance heavy are things that you're generally want to turn off or down in the Rift - motion blur and screen space ambient occlusion kill it for me, but I'm not a fan of either of those things. You can also get away with ditching stuff like bloom, lens flares, auto exposure, whatever other post process effects work well in 2D games but are less relevant when your eyes become the camera.
Dynamic shadows casting onto or from high poly objects also causes some uncomfortable frame drops, but I only have modest hardware anyway so I've been impressed with what I can get away with - especially screen space reflections which had no noticeable performance hit and looks stunning.
All my tests so far which achieve 75FPS have also been in-engine tests, where I hear it's quite a lot more of a performance drain as it runs the engine in the background.
I'm very new to game development, but I'd say GPUs now can handle very high poly objects and high resolution textures incredibly well in stereoscopy. There's always going to be a huge market for simplistically styled games, but I don't think they are necessary at all to maintain a comfortable experience in the Rift... maybe for GearVR though.
It depends one of the VR projects I was on, a art museum was ran fine on a 7950 on a DK2 (it still has issue getting detecting the DK2 on some machines and turn on VR mode). There was nothing else going everything was static.
Chance Hale
Member
Woot, DK2 shipped!
bee
Member
Metroid prime : Echoes
Mario Kart : Wii
couple of videos of dolphin running in VR, both look really good actually, mario kart in 1st person haha
Mario Kart : Wii
couple of videos of dolphin running in VR, both look really good actually, mario kart in 1st person haha
Astral/H3X
Member
Man if they fix those graphical glitches in MP2, I think it'll be about time for me to replay that haha.
plagiarize
Banned
Just a quick hello to say I'm still alive, and still working on my VR focused first person puzzle / exploration thing. Click the picture below to check it out. It's a vector graphics / Tron inspired thing where the environments are purposefully built without giving you enough information to initially figure out what is and isn't solid until you move around inside them and change persective / bump against the walls that sort of thing.
Click the logo to download. Let me know what you think so far. This is obviously still very work in progress. Dialogue is only on the first level and is all place holder (was just proof of concept in terms of implementation).
Y on the joypad or E on the keyboard resets the Rift location. There is a very basic pause menu.
I plan on releasing the finished thing for free. It will be a couple of hours long for a first play through if all goes to plan. 13 or so levels (this release has three and a half, but level three and four better represent the sort of level length the other levels will have. Dialogue will lengthen things for those who care about the developing relationship between player and the creator.
DK2 shouldn't require any special setup. Just run the game. It'll even work in direct mode!
Click the logo to download. Let me know what you think so far. This is obviously still very work in progress. Dialogue is only on the first level and is all place holder (was just proof of concept in terms of implementation).
Y on the joypad or E on the keyboard resets the Rift location. There is a very basic pause menu.
I plan on releasing the finished thing for free. It will be a couple of hours long for a first play through if all goes to plan. 13 or so levels (this release has three and a half, but level three and four better represent the sort of level length the other levels will have. Dialogue will lengthen things for those who care about the developing relationship between player and the creator.
DK2 shouldn't require any special setup. Just run the game. It'll even work in direct mode!
Chance Hale
Member
Damn holidays, 3 business days apparently isn't until next Wednesday >_>
So excited though, the first model was such a wonderful thing and I'm excited to get real tracking.
Been waiting to finish Alien Isolation for this, goodbye heart!
So excited though, the first model was such a wonderful thing and I'm excited to get real tracking.
Been waiting to finish Alien Isolation for this, goodbye heart!
Betta Lines
Member
Worked perfectly for me, just had the headset in my usual setting (Extend mode, secondary display) and ran the main EXE. Worked with my gamepad (DS3 emulating 360 controller).Just a quick hello to say I'm still alive, and still working on my VR focused first person puzzle / exploration thing. Click the picture below to check it out. It's a vector graphics / Tron inspired thing where the environments are purposefully built without giving you enough information to initially figure out what is and isn't solid until you move around inside them and change persective / bump against the walls that sort of thing.
Click the logo to download. Let me know what you think so far. This is obviously still very work in progress. Dialogue is only on the first level and is all place holder (was just proof of concept in terms of implementation).
Y on the joypad or E on the keyboard resets the Rift location. There is a very basic pause menu.
I plan on releasing the finished thing for free. It will be a couple of hours long for a first play through if all goes to plan. 13 or so levels (this release has three and a half, but level three and four better represent the sort of level length the other levels will have. Dialogue will lengthen things for those who care about the developing relationship between player and the creator.
DK2 shouldn't require any special setup. Just run the game. It'll even work in direct mode!
As for the game, it's quite promising! Reminded me a bit of Antichamber. Some good potential in the voice over. I think primarily using black works well for DK2, but I find the bright white rather harsh on the eyes - have you considered adding a brightness slider? Or making them a bit more grey? With such deep black on the OLED I think it doesn't need to be that bright to achieve a good contrast. But maybe I'm just tired...
The other thing I noticed is that with such limited outlines (at least at the start), I missed a couple of the drops - not in terms of finding them (I realise that is part of the puzzle), but once they were found, I was just dropping through black with no reference for movement, so there was zero dropping sensation. I think if I'd turned my head differently at the time I might have seen something move, but on at least two drops I missed any point of reference. I'm not sure how you can change this without adding more lines though (which would spoil the puzzle).
I think I was past the third checkpoint and I had to stop - nausea was kicking in. I don't think this a fault with your game, just anything that involves walking still gives me slight nausea after a while. The best 'walking' VR experience I've had so far is Windlands - I found their 'comfort mode' to help significantly to reduce nausea. I'm not sure whether it is suitable for your game however - the camera jerking might make your abstract environments harder to navigate. But if it's easy to implement it might be a worthwhile option to add in the menu.
plagiarize
Banned
Thanks for the feedback. Comfort mode is something I've seen in other games and haven't thought about integrating before, but I don't think it would be too hard. That's where you only turn in 45 degree measures right? Adding more stuff to the menus is going to be kind of hard, but I have to rebuild them at some point anyways. I'm not sure like you say if it'll work, but I'll definitely try to test it.
The big drop at the end of the second level (after the theatre) I fully intend to decorate as I have the drops at the end of the first and third level. It's a weird sensation to not know you've been falling, but I'm not sure I don't entirely like it.
I do try to put visual clues in a places to catch your eye as much as possible when you fall, but it hasn't always been easy to figure out where to put them. Level two's big drop not being decorated is just because I haven't got around to it yet.
Personally I like the bright highlights. The game is a pretty eh graphically without the strong glow effect. Do you know if your DK2 was in low persistence mode or not? I forget the command off the top of my head to toggle it on and off, but it should have been pretty obvious when looking around.
There will not be a DK3. 1440p devkit will not be released because release of CK1 is imminent [sometimes during 2015].
So I received my Rift last week, and it has been amazing trying out all the different demos for it.
A problem I am running into now is pretty bad motion sickness from most of the FPS games I have tried (Alien Isolation, HL2, Skyrim). All the seated demos work great and I feel zero motion sickness.
I can only play these FPS games for 5 minutes before I start feeling queazy and quit. Has anyone that experienced this feeling been able to get over it after a while? I really want to play Alien with the rift, but if the feeling continues I am going to have to go through it old school on a monitor.
A problem I am running into now is pretty bad motion sickness from most of the FPS games I have tried (Alien Isolation, HL2, Skyrim). All the seated demos work great and I feel zero motion sickness.
I can only play these FPS games for 5 minutes before I start feeling queazy and quit. Has anyone that experienced this feeling been able to get over it after a while? I really want to play Alien with the rift, but if the feeling continues I am going to have to go through it old school on a monitor.
and ignorance here, what does CK1 stand for?
I'm quite sure he meant "CV1" which is short for Consumer Version 1.
we can only hope...no date has been announced yet,
Betta Lines
Member
Yep, pretty confident that mine had low persistence. It's not the glow as such, just the strong contrast between black and white - you could have it a more greyish white and still have it glowing... I think? A brightness slider might do the trick, but it might just be me.
Indeed, it could just be that I happened to be not quite looking the right way and missed any cues to show that I was dropping.
And yes, their comfort mode turns 45 degrees instantly with every flick of the right stick. Jarring at first, but I'm able to play Windlands for an hour without nausea, unlike everything else where I'm starting to feel it after 10-15 mins.
There is no indication of a DK3 - I believe they've said that there are no such plans. They said this after DK1 however, so it could still happen. I got the impression that it was less likely this time though, as the improvements seen in Crescent Bay prototype doesn't dramatically affect the ability to develop VR content, and DK2 is already at a reasonable performance level (compared to DK1, which was barely good enough resolution to demo anything, and the Crystal Cove prototype added the crucial positional tracking.)
Consumer kit 1.
InaudibleWhispa
Member
As others have said, some FPS games built for VR have comfort mode which allows you to turn 45 degrees using the bumpers. The quick cut to a new direction is easier on the eyes/brain than seeing fake movement. Windlands is a great experience for this. I tried it on day 1 and got nauseous with analog controls. Comfort mode helped and then eventually I could handle analog controls for 30-40 minutes. It's also a great game worth trying anyway.
I also don't get nauseous in the slower paced horror games such as Affected. But then you have other problems to contend with, such as shitting yourself.
Cool I will give Windlands a shot.
I know all three of the FPS I listed were not developed with VR in mind, but it's so close to being a great experience I wish I could play through them without feeling like crap.
InaudibleWhispa
Member
Some people can definitely overcome it with time. If you can tlearn to comfortably play Windlands, it might well allow you to play the others without feeling sick so quickly.
plagiarize
Banned
I'm planning on implementing this this weekend. I'll throw a link in hear once the comfort mode option is in place. I mean to fix my save game issues first (and I think I have a way of doing that), but I hope to have this done before the weekend is out. I think it'll work okay since everything is orthogonal, but we'll see.
somesang
Member
To people that just ordered or just received their DK2s, were you charged right away? I'm still pending, but I just placed my order. Details say they're awaiting inventory. Thought I'd order one since I'm reading a lot of people getting orders in 3 days. Any insight so I don't go crazy playing the waiting game and then see a new version get announced at CES while still waiting?
Virtuix has apparently launched an AR* game:
*Note: I mean AR as in "i love bees" not AR as in virtual reality abstracted over reality.
Latest backer update:
"Hello Backers!
Happy New Year and best wishes from the Virtuix team! We are diligently preparing for CES next week, and you can expect a special update from us before the opening of the show with images and videos of the final Omni design. However, we decided to write you this week to inform you of a situation developing on our Virtuix Forum that included the hacking of an employee's account. We have received strange video messages from a certain Dr. Tristan Verstraeten, or “Doc V” as he seems to be called. In response, our community manager Ben Drakes found out that Doc V was murdered just a few years ago under bizarre circumstances. Ben also uncovered references to a weird symbol, rumors of an age-old organization called Hades, and what appears to be a ruthless pursuit of crimson shards. See the relevant Forum thread here and Doc V's video messages below: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOjnFwkGOAw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4Kn2eNqmUg
Ben has started a blog to keep track of all information gathered thus far: www.crimsonshards.com. For your reference, the most pertinent information we found thus far is below:
Old Doc V bio website: www.verstraetenphd.com
Newspaper clipping from 2012 related to Doc V's murder:
Old newspaper clipping related to the Hades symbol to which Doc V referred in his second video message:
Our attempts to get in touch with the forum user “DocV_1978” who has been posting the video messages have failed. If anyone has any more information, please let us know, or contact Ben at www.crimsonshards.com. We are monitoring the situation and will keep you posted on any updates.
Best regards,
Jan and the Virtuix team "
I love it when marketing departments do these little AR games. Hopefully this one is well done.
*Note: I mean AR as in "i love bees" not AR as in virtual reality abstracted over reality.
Latest backer update:
"Hello Backers!
Happy New Year and best wishes from the Virtuix team! We are diligently preparing for CES next week, and you can expect a special update from us before the opening of the show with images and videos of the final Omni design. However, we decided to write you this week to inform you of a situation developing on our Virtuix Forum that included the hacking of an employee's account. We have received strange video messages from a certain Dr. Tristan Verstraeten, or “Doc V” as he seems to be called. In response, our community manager Ben Drakes found out that Doc V was murdered just a few years ago under bizarre circumstances. Ben also uncovered references to a weird symbol, rumors of an age-old organization called Hades, and what appears to be a ruthless pursuit of crimson shards. See the relevant Forum thread here and Doc V's video messages below: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOjnFwkGOAw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4Kn2eNqmUg
Ben has started a blog to keep track of all information gathered thus far: www.crimsonshards.com. For your reference, the most pertinent information we found thus far is below:
Old Doc V bio website: www.verstraetenphd.com
Newspaper clipping from 2012 related to Doc V's murder:
Old newspaper clipping related to the Hades symbol to which Doc V referred in his second video message:
Our attempts to get in touch with the forum user “DocV_1978” who has been posting the video messages have failed. If anyone has any more information, please let us know, or contact Ben at www.crimsonshards.com. We are monitoring the situation and will keep you posted on any updates.
Best regards,
Jan and the Virtuix team "
I love it when marketing departments do these little AR games. Hopefully this one is well done.
So I tried out Windlands. It plays great, and gave me zero sickness. The things that really stuck out to me that I believe help mitigate the sim sickness issue are:
1. The way you turn in the game. Instead of smoothly turning like in most FPS games, the game sharply turns you it seems like 45 degrees. Somehow this feels better.
2. The menus are not static screens that do not move when you move the camera. Trying to read text on static menus that do not support head tracking really feels strange. This game has none of it.
3. Runs buttery smooth.
Hope more games in the future are built with these items in mind if they plan on supporting VR in any capacity.
If paying by credit card, they first charge a $50.00 down-payment type thing. Shortly before shipping, they will charge the balance (unless you used PayPal in which case that gets charged all at once, immediately). Oh, they have stock so no worries about the "waiting for inventory" status. That was originally there when they were burning through the massive spring/summer/fall waiting list.
I ordered the 30th of Dec., and got my Tracking # January 2nd. Pretty fast, considering the holiday period.
Is it possible that all the microstutter/judder people feel with the headtracking is simply due to 75fps not being smooth enough in general? Even on a flat display, I notice that 60fps can still be slightly juddery when panning the camera/viewpoint around. 75fps should improve that, but being in the Rift accentuates any slight judder still?
Or are there games that legitimately don't have this issue?
Or are there games that legitimately don't have this issue?
So what the actual difference between the 2 pair of lenses that come with the rift. I'm struggling with some of the text n Elite and wondering if the other lenses would make a difference, I'm slightly short sighted.....be cool if you could get a pair of subscription lenses made up for the rift when it's finally realised
When I tune the settings in Assetto Corsa for a rock solid 75fps it's indeed completely silky-smooth and judder-free, also when panning around quickly. And with a nice feeling of presence (same with Elite: Dangerous). But once I start add more AI cars, the judder shows up again. How this relates to frame time f.ex., perhaps that's also a part of it, I don't know.
We all do. First of all you need to do the HUD color mod and change it to green/blue.
Astral/H3X
Member
The B lenses are for people who are shortsighted, actually. Also the text in Elite is hard to read anyway, but if you change the GUI to be primarily green, it'll be easier to read.
Mechanical Snowman
Member
If you are achieving a solid 75fps, you won't experience ANY jitter / judder. If you drop a frame, without time warp being enabled, is when you experience this.
It's the same with 60fps, if you're hitting that number with no drops then it will be a smooth experience - smoother even than if you're fluctuating between 72-75 frames - in the same way that a solid 75fps all the time would be more comfortable than being at 90fps with it occasionally dropping to ~85fps.
And to your second question - there are many demos that I haven't experienced a single frame drop in. In my own UE4 game I can achieve perfect 75fps during testing, which is perfectly smooth - and that's when you are intentionally looking for / trying to induce frame drops.
It's definitely possible to play a game where it feels like turning your head is just looking around the game world. No judder at all. The Oculus desk demo is like this.
In my experience, though, it's not common. Most things I play have some kind of defect, be it nonstop judder or small framerate tics here and there. Alien Isolation had this weird thing where my framerate would be utterly perfect until I got close to certain objects (even low-poly objects), and then turning my head from side to side would cause a slight stutter.
Oculus has their work cut out for them.