Oculus Rift DK2 Thread

spent the last few hours with the DK2

setting up was easy. no problems here

tuscany demo: stutters
lava inc: stutters
sightline the chair: fluid and awesome
titans of space: fluid and ok, made me feel sick when the chair turned around the planets
quake 2: awesome. everything is huge and so 3D
ocean rift: stutters
half-life 2 lost coast: annoying to set up. but well worth it, just like quake 2
aaaaaaaaaaaaa for the awesome: made me feel sick immediately, not ready for this yet
eurotruck 2: didnt find the VR option
world of diving: starting DK2 option gives missing exe error
elite: didnt find VR option

Im feeling a bit sick and I have to learn how to move/aim with head/mouse in the games again.

the resolution really is too low for a consumer product. in some games its more noticable than in others. once the resolution is 1440p or better 4K this thing will be the best thing ever.

So far I'm impressed with the stuff that works besides the resolution. I welcome the VR future.

tomorrow I will start playing longer sessions of half-life 2 and I want to test half-life 1 and quake 1.
Can't wait for doom 3 and the classic dooms to be playable in the rift.

my lenses are already dirty but I'm too scared to clean them because they seem to scratch so easily

qtxv9usz.png
 
Canis lupus said:
Um, you're gonna have 50 more pixels per inch than the first screen so how is it that you see the same number of pixels spread across your vision?

Upping the ppi from DK1 to DK2 certainly helped remove the screen door effect and the image is indeed clearer so it's not irrelevant. I think in fact ppi is the most relevant aspect
Click to expand...

It's not the same as looking at a flat panel. The optics have to change depending on the screen size which results in PPI being less meaningful. Regardless of what PPI the panel has the resolution is going to be used to fill up your field of view which means that raw resolution is going to be the most important metric. Simply decreasing the size of the panel isn't going to really help.
 
I've got a HMZ-T1 which is still awesome, i use it always for movies and sometimes with games on PC, i'd like to know how this Oculus actually works, i mean, when i plag it into the hdmi of my PC do i see the windows desktop and everything like my HMZ-T1? can i watch 3D movies ecc?
 
abracadaver said:
spent the last few hours with the DK2

setting up was easy. no problems here

tuscany demo: stutters
lava inc: stutters
sightline the chair: fluid and awesome
titans of space: fluid and ok, made me feel sick when the chair turned around the planets
quake 2: awesome. everything is huge and so 3D
ocean rift: stutters
half-life 2 lost coast: annoying to set up. but well worth it, just like quake 2
aaaaaaaaaaaaa for the awesome: made me feel sick immediately, not ready for this yet
eurotruck 2: didnt find the VR option
world of diving: starting DK2 option gives missing exe error
elite: didnt find VR option

Im feeling a bit sick and I have to learn how to move/aim with head/mouse in the games again.

the resolution really is too low for a consumer product. in some games its more noticable than in others. once the resolution is 1440p or better 4K this thing will be the best thing ever.

So far I'm impressed with the stuff that works besides the resolution. I welcome the VR future.

tomorrow I will start playing longer sessions of half-life 2 and I want to test half-life 1 and quake 1.
Can't wait for doom 3 and the classic dooms to be playable in the rift.

my lenses are already dirty but I'm too scared to clean them because they seem to scratch so easily

qtxv9usz.png
Click to expand...

You using Windows 7? Disable Aero if so. Addressed a lot of my stutter/judder issues for Unity stuff.

Did you update the firmware and install the latest runtimes? Probably yes, but trying to help you alleviate those issues.

For Euro Truck, you need to right click on it in your Steam library, go to properties, beta tab, and then select the Oculus beta. Then click "launch options" and add "-oculus" (without the quotes). It'll download a small update and then launch it that way (have the Oculus in Extended mode). Launch game, it'll go right to the Rift.

For Elite there are a number of steps to take (if you're not using one of the game manager apps) to disable the Oculus service and a little bit of fiddling inside the in-game options to get it running. Best to Google the solution on that one since it's very awesome once you get it working.

Hope any of that helps!

Genio88 said:
I've got a HMZ-T1 which is still awesome, i use it always for movies and sometimes with games on PC, i'd like to know how this Oculus actually works, i mean, when i plag it into the hdmi of my PC do i see the windows desktop and everything like my HMZ-T1? can i watch 3D movies ecc?
Click to expand...

The DK2 has two modes presently, direct and extended. When it's in direct mode, you don't see anything displayed on it until you launch an application that uses it and then you see it displayed through the Rift. Downside to that is that currently pretty much nothing works that way.

Extended basically sets the DK2 up as an additional display for your Windows desktop and you'll see some of your desktop through it. However, out of the box it's not at all usable as a desktop solution but there are workarounds for that.
 
Ugh no, I give up on Skyrim. Messed with it yet another hour and while the gamepad=off setting certainly helped the game still minimizes due to mouse clicking on the second desktop (it gets there because of headtracking and no matter if I use mouse or the emulated gamepad, it clicks there). Can't get it to show up again after that. sigh
 
Genio88 said:
I've got a HMZ-T1 which is still awesome, i use it always for movies and sometimes with games on PC, i'd like to know how this Oculus actually works, i mean, when i plag it into the hdmi of my PC do i see the windows desktop and everything like my HMZ-T1? can i watch 3D movies ecc?
Click to expand...
An HMZ works just like a monitor and looks like there is a big screen in front of you, whereas a VR headset uses lenses to fill your vision with pixels. If you just plug it in, your Windows desktop will look completely distorted and your eyes won't be able to focus properly, as it needs software to correct for the stereoscopic split and the distortion of the lenses. You can run software that displays your desktop in a 3D environment, and you can watch 3D movies (or indeed any movie) in a virtual cinema.
 
Canis lupus said:
Um, you're gonna have 50 more pixels per inch than the first screen so how is it that you see the same number of pixels spread across your vision?

Upping the ppi from DK1 to DK2 certainly helped remove the screen door effect and the image is indeed clearer so it's not irrelevant. I think in fact ppi is the most relevant aspect.
Click to expand...
What improved the IQ going from DK1 to DK2 is increasing the resolution, not increasing the PPI, that's just a side effect.

To give any extreme example and illustrate the point, if you took a 1" 1080p screen with >1000 ppi and adjusted the optics to compensate (assuming for this thought experiment that such optics are even possible), it wouldn't look any better than the current 1080p screen.
 
One thing I've been told about glasses which I would imagine applies to the Rift lenses is, do not ever wipe them dry, even with a micromesh cloth. The micromesh can still grind little particles into the lens if you do not use some sort of gentle liquid lens cleaner too.
 
Vuze said:
Ugh no, I give up on Skyrim. Messed with it yet another hour and while the gamepad=off setting certainly helped the game still minimizes due to mouse clicking on the second desktop (it gets there because of headtracking and no matter if I use mouse or the emulated gamepad, it clicks there). Can't get it to show up again after that. sigh
Click to expand...

pretty much a waste of £30 buying VorpX then.

I had a feeling it was too good to be true, especially as nobody outside of the people who wrote it have posted any youtube videos of it actually working yet.

Hopefully Nvidia will add it into their stereo3d drivers or something.
 
Durante said:
What improved the IQ going from DK1 to DK2 is increasing the resolution, not increasing the PPI, that's just a side effect.

To give any extreme example and illustrate the point, if you took a 1" 1080p screen with >1000 ppi and adjusted the optics to compensate (assuming for this thought experiment that such optics are even possible), it wouldn't look any better than the current 1080p screen.
Click to expand...
So a 5" screen with 300 ppi is indistinguishable from a 5" screen with 3000 ppi? I get that spreading get the same or very close number of pixels across the screen wouldn't look that different, but wouldn't many more pixels in the same area look immediately better? Isn't it tied to increasing the resolution on a screen of the same size?
 
wickfut said:
pretty much a waste of £30 buying VorpX then.

I had a feeling it was too good to be true, especially as nobody outside of the people who wrote it have posted any youtube videos of it actually working yet.

Hopefully Nvidia will add it into their stereo3d drivers or something.
Click to expand...
It can only get better I guess ;) never bought it with the intention of playing Skyrim anyway, I can barely imagine how inventory management etc should work without permanently switching to edge peak mode. Direct Mode worked way better than extended mode funnily enough - while sometimes it still clicks out, I can now comfortably tab back into the game. I should try it with some other games, never thought it would work with Vorpx as it doesn't even do it's job with simple demos lol
 
GraveHorizon said:
So a 5" screen with 300 ppi is indistinguishable from a 5" screen with 3000 ppi?
Click to expand...
No, since the second screen has a 10x higher resolution.

The point is that a 4" 1440p screen is equivalent to a 6" 1440p screen, even though the former has a much higher PPI. And that's why you shouldn't look at PPI but simply at resolution for VR.

Actually, to be more exact, the best resolution metric to use for VR is "pixels per arc minute", since that also takes into account the FoV being spanned by a given resolution.
 
Durante said:
What improved the IQ going from DK1 to DK2 is increasing the resolution, not increasing the PPI, that's just a side effect.

To give any extreme example and illustrate the point, if you took a 1" 1080p screen with >1000 ppi and adjusted the optics to compensate (assuming for this thought experiment that such optics are even possible), it wouldn't look any better than the current 1080p screen.
Click to expand...

Not only the upgrade of resolution, the screen also got smaller. If the DK2 had a 7" screen like the DK1 instead of the 5.7" it has now, it would be a more pixelated experience because there would be less ppi. What this means is that DK2 is less pixelated than a 7" 1080p display. Or another example, a HMD with 5.4" 1440p display (538ppi) will give a sharper image than a 10" 4K display (440ppi). Therefore I think ppi is a lot more important than the total resolution.



I'm thinking of buying the Durovis Dive and LG G3(or wait for the Note 4) just to see how much sharper a 1440p ~5.5" display is than DK2.
 
Canis lupus I don't think it works like that at all. If the DK2 had been 20% bigger or smaller but with the same resolution the image we see would look exactly the same after being warped by the lenses to fit out field of view.

-edit-

Of course ppi is still somewhat important for confort/weight issues.
 
Probably, but I'm merely thinking from the standpoint of being able to see individual pixels and black borders around them, and the more they get crammed in one inch, the less I'll notice them, not sure how much toying around with lenses sort out the issues.
 
Canis lupus said:
Not only the upgrade of resolution, the screen also got smaller. If the DK2 had a 7" screen like the DK1 instead of the 5.7" it has now, it would be a more pixelated experience because there would be less ppi. What this means is that DK2 is less pixelated than a 7" 1080p display. Or another example, a HMD with 5.4" 1440p display (538ppi) will give a sharper image than a 10" 4K display (440ppi). Therefore I think ppi is a lot more important than the total resolution.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, you don't seem to understand this concept :/

A VR display aims to fill a specific FoV for the user - e.g. 110° horizontal FoV. If you use 1920x1080 pixels to fill this FoV, the end result (in terms of pixel density, obviously not comfort or weight) will be the same regardless of whether the display used to achieve it is 2" or 20". Thus display PPI is irrelevant for image sharpness or clarity. If you want a meaningful resolution metric for VR independent of FoV then use pixels per arcminute.

call_kotaku said:
I think he's talking about pixel fill and not ppi
Click to expand...
Well, that's an entirely different and orthogonal concept. You can have a high PPI display with a low pixel fill rate or with a high one, and the same for a low PPI display.

Obviously a higher pixel fill rate is preferable for VR.
 
Durante said:
I'm sorry, you don't seem to understand this concept :/

A VR display aims to fill a specific FoV for the user - e.g. 110° horizontal FoV. If you use 1920x1080 pixels to fill this FoV, the end result will be the same regardless of whether the display used to achieve it is 2" or 20". Thus display PPI is irrelevant. If you want a meaningful resolution metric independent of FoV then use pixels per arcminute.
Click to expand...

I think he's talking about pixel fill and not ppi
 
Canis lupus said:
Probably, but I'm merely thinking from the standpoint of being able to see individual pixels and black borders around them, and the more they get crammed in one inch, the less I'll notice them, not sure how much toying around with lenses sort out the issues.
Click to expand...

Look at it this way, if you have a higher PPI screen that is the same resolution, that just means it is smaller, and the lenses will have to magnify it more, making the black borders big again.
 
Durante said:
I'm sorry, you don't seem to understand this concept :/

A VR display aims to fill a specific FoV for the user - e.g. 110° horizontal FoV. If you use 1920x1080 pixels to fill this FoV, the end result (in terms of pixel density, obviously not comfort or weight) will be the same regardless of whether the display used to achieve it is 2" or 20". Thus display PPI is irrelevant for image sharpness or clarity. If you want a meaningful resolution metric for VR independent of FoV then use pixels per arcminute.
Click to expand...

It's okay, we're here to learn.

So basically, what I'm saying is that the more pixels per degree, the better. Isn't this just the result of a higher ppi (independent of FoV)? On 2 screens with same length and viewing distance but different resolutions, pixels should be less perceptible on the one with higher ppi.
 
Canis lupus said:
It's okay, we're here to learn.

So basically, what I'm saying is that the more pixels per degree, the better. Isn't this just the result of a higher ppi (independent of FoV)? On 2 screens with same length and viewing distance but different resolutions, pixels should be less perceptible on the one with higher ppi.
Click to expand...
The problem is that you are thinking in terms of screens. For traditional screens, what you are saying makes sense. But screens are not used in a traditional way in a VR setting. Concepts like "viewing distance" and "screen size" (and PPI) mostly lose their meaning because of the optics involved. What's relevant is how large of a field of view you cover, and how many pixels you have available to do so.
 
I got the museum demo fully working with the DK2 at long last in UE4, in direct to rift mode only with positional tracking. The positional tracking can cause the camera to clip though objects and the menu system is bit messy and buggy at this time still working getting the bugs out of that.

Here a link if anyone wants to try

Download
 
Canis lupus said:
It's okay, we're here to learn.

So basically, what I'm saying is that the more pixels per degree, the better. Isn't this just the result of a higher ppi (independent of FoV)? On 2 screens with same length and viewing distance but different resolutions, pixels should be less perceptible on the one with higher ppi.
Click to expand...

Think about it like this: You are changing the spacing of the pixels when you refer to PPI, not the amount of pixels when screens are put into a VR headset. Bigger screen, lower PPI. Smaller screen, higher PPI. It's the number of pixels that matter for VR.
 
Durante said:
The problem is that you are thinking in terms of screens. For traditional screens, what you are saying makes sense. But screens are not used in a traditional way in a VR setting. Concepts like "viewing distance" and "screen size" (and PPI) mostly lose their meaning because of the optics involved. What's relevant is how large of a field of view you cover, and how many pixels you have available to do so.
Click to expand...

I need to read up on this, didn't take into account the magnifying optics and focal points but I think we're talking about the same thing. A 110 degree fov still isn't perfect for VR right?
 
Canis lupus said:
It's okay, we're here to learn.

So basically, what I'm saying is that the more pixels per degree, the better. Isn't this just the result of a higher ppi (independent of FoV)? On 2 screens with same length and viewing distance but different resolutions, pixels should be less perceptible on the one with higher ppi.
Click to expand...
PPI is a calculation of resolution and screen size.

But all that matters in VR is resolution. Screen size is irrelevant in terms of image quality. In the real world, you can shrink a screen size at a given resolution and improve IQ, but in VR, it doesn't work like that. A smaller screen may technically have a better PPI, but you still need to design optics to spread that image across your FoV. So in essence, all VR displays ultimately become the same size(given a constant FoV). And when the size is the same, as you know, it becomes all about resolution.

Another way of thinking about it is that pixel density itself does matter, but not necessarily PPI. Size becomes irrelevant to the discussion, so the 'per inch' part doesn't matter anymore. Its purely about pixel density and when size doesn't matter, you increase resolution to achieve that better pixel density.
 
110 degree fov is good enough, or at least it reaches a point for immersion and presence to be experienced, according to Valve's VR presentation. I don't think we will ever get past that with the basic design of the OR without changing the laws of nature.
 
RCSI said:
110 degree fov is good enough, or at least it reaches a point for immersion and presence to be experienced, according to Valve's VR presentation. I don't think we will ever get past that with the basic design of the OR without changing the laws of nature.
Click to expand...
Its good enough for now.

Its not good enough in general. The ultimate goal should be to simulate the full 180 degree FoV of our normal eyesight. The current optics + flat 2D smartphone display design wont achieve that, you're right, but that's why VR needs to continue to evolve as time goes on.

TV's of today use much different tech than the first TV's did. I have no doubt that VR headsets in 10-20 years will be quite different than what we have now as well.

I actually think the VR tech we're seeing right now will become fairly primitive fairly quickly, seeing as how the DK1 is already basically a piece of junk compared to what is available now.
 
Alright, ran into another problem. After successfully demoing my DK2 to my friend's sister this afternoon, we came back from out of town just now and set it up for him to try. The desktop went to the Rift for a minute, but the Oculus service wasn't running. After using Bilago's tool to restart it, the Rift doesn't register as being connected. The computer makes the docking sound when I plug in all the USB things, but the HDMI doesn't make a difference. The orange light is on so it's getting power, but it doesn't switch to extended mode. Also, my normal desktop is weird now. All the icons are gone from it, leaving just the taskbar and the stuff already pinned to it. NEedless to say my already critical friend is very disappointed in his first (non)experience with VR.

Krejlooc said:
Welp, we've been offered jobs by crytek.
Click to expand...

Huzzah! Congratulations!
I forgot what you do again.
 
GraveHorizon said:
Huzzah! Congratulations!
I forgot what you do again.
Click to expand...

Half Life 2 VR. Our lead guy Nate was hit up by Cevat Yerli about it, we're all talking about it right now. Our team is spread across the world right now, we've never really even met face to face. Dunno what we're going to do.
 
This is a super interesting (and very in-depth) article that came out today on The Verge about where VR is currently and where it could be headed. They have detailed interviews with both Cory Ondrejka (Facebook VP credited with Oculus acquisition) and Sony's Shuhei about what they think the future of VR means to them and their companies. Cory has some really interesting takes on spatial navigation that VR could work for, as well as what it wouldn't be good for (e.g. a 3D search engine). It's also somewhat strange he hardly mentions using VR for gaming in his interview.

I searched for a separate thread but couldn't find one, and I'm not a full member yet so can't start a new thread. If someone wants to take this and start a new thread, I think it would spawn a lot of good conversation about the different approach of the 2 companies.

http://www.theverge.com/a/virtual-reality

Watch me rise and fall if old.
 
Trojan said:
This is a super interesting (and very in-depth) article that came out today on The Verge about where VR is currently and where it could be headed. They have detailed interviews with both Cory Ondrejka (Facebook VP credited with Oculus acquisition) and Sony's Shuhei about what they think the future of VR means to them and their companies. Cory has some really interesting takes on spatial navigation that VR could work for, as well as what it wouldn't be good for (e.g. a 3D search engine). It's also somewhat strange he hardly mentions using VR for gaming in his interview.

I searched for a separate thread but couldn't find one, and I'm not a full member yet so can't start a new thread. If someone wants to take this and start a new thread, I think it would spawn a lot of good conversation about the different approach of the 2 companies.

http://www.theverge.com/a/virtual-reality

Watch me rise and fall if old.
Click to expand...

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=127065179
 
Krejlooc said:
Maybe, dunno.

EDIT: The message we've decided to send back through Nate is that we're interested.
Click to expand...

Just weigh the pros and cons. You guys clearly know what you're doing, but if the benefits of working with Crytek could be life-changing, then go for it. Otherwise, there's a great wealth of possibility in being an independent developer group.
 
Any employment by crytek would assuredly be life changing, as they just closed their Austin studio. Meaning I'd have to at least move to another state, possibly to another country if our team is going to be physically united.
 
Krejlooc said:
Any employment by crytek would assuredly be life changing, as they just closed their Austin studio. Meaning I'd have to at least move to another state, possibly to another country if our team is going to be physically united.
Click to expand...

Is that something you're willing to do? Would you have to move to Germany? I'm not sure if I would be able to do something like that, so crazy...
 
shacklesmcgee said:
Is that something you're willing to do? Would you have to move to Germany? I'm not sure if I would be able to do something like that, so crazy...
Click to expand...

I'd like to think I would, yes. I'm not particularly tied to Houston, Texas. Germany might be a bit much, but I'd assume any stop in another country would just be the first stop in a career. Maybe.

Shit I dunno. Right now I'm just kinda playing this by ear.
 
can you mirror the image to your tv while playing quake 2 and half-life 2 ? I want my girlfriend to try those games but I want to see what she is doing.
 
abracadaver said:
can you mirror the image to your tv while playing quake 2 and half-life 2 ? I want my girlfriend to try those games but I want to see what she is doing.
Click to expand...

You could try using OBS to grab the image and display it on your TV in preview mode. I don't think there is a more comfortable option for non-direct-to-rift demos at the moment.
 
I can't get Radial G to work.

How do I put it to the Rifts screen, I don't have to drag the game window do I? My desktop on the Rifts screen is all messed up and with the game window, I see part of what should be the left's eye vision with the right lens, and the colors look like it's anaglyph 3d.
 
Canis lupus said:
I can't get Radial G to work.

How do I put it to the Rifts screen, I don't have to drag the game window do I? My desktop on the Rifts screen is all messed up and with the game window, I see part of what should be the left's eye vision with the right lens, and the colors look like it's anaglyph 3d.
Click to expand...
Have you tried setting it as your Primary display?
 
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