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[VictimOfGrief]

Build another budget Beater:

SAMSUNG 22X DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223F - OEM
LIAN LI PC-A05B Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
EVGA 896-P3-1262-AR GeForce GTX 260 Superclocked Edition 896MB 448-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card
OCZ GameXStream OCZ600GXSSLI 600W ATX12V NVIDIA SLI Certified ATI CrossFire Ready Active PFC Power Supply - Retail
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ
ASUS P5Q Pro LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail
Tuniq Tower 120 Universal CPU Cooler 120mm Cooling Fan and Fan Controler/Heatsink - Retail

About $987 shipped.

Not featured which I already have on hand:
Vista x64 Ultimate
74GB 10k Raptor
750GB Seagate
19" LG Widscreen monitor

 

[dude]

PC finally got here, installed everything today, and finally using it now.
Just wanted to thank everyone in this thread who helped me, and also ask for a guide to help me overclock my Q6600.

Thanks guys

 

[Hazaro]

PC finally got here, installed everything today, and finally using it now.
Just wanted to thank everyone in this thread who helped me, and also ask for a guide to help me overclock my Q6600.

Thanks guys

Voltage = 1.4V
FSB = 400
Multi = 8

You are done :lol

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

What is a good and cheap way of cooling off my GPU. I'm going to fix up the wires and stuff, but, for whatever reason my 8800gt has been getting way too hot. My case is small so that is probably one of the reasons why. Still, I need a nice cheap alternative.

 

[Wallach]

What is a good and cheap way of cooling off my GPU. I'm going to fix up the wires and stuff, but, for whatever reason my 8800gt has been getting way too hot. My case is small so that is probably one of the reasons why. Still, I need a nice cheap alternative.

What's the fan duty cycle set to? On a lot of 8800 GTs the default fan cycle is pretty low and can lead to higher temps once dust and fan wear start to accrue. Have you tried just bumping the fan cycle through RivaTuner?

 

[Hazaro]

What's the fan duty cycle set to? On a lot of 8800 GTs the default fan cycle is pretty low and can lead to higher temps once dust and fan wear start to accrue. Have you tried just bumping the fan cycle through RivaTuner?

This, bump it to 60%, or higher if you can take the whine.

Otherwise get an Accelero S1 or a DuOrb for cheap.

 

[JSnake]

Hmm, I was just checking out cyberpower pc while trying to help someone with a prebuilt on a different site, and it seems quite cheap. Made a decent config that's only 10-15$ more expensive then Newegg. Anyone got experience with that site?

The config:
CASE: ($10 off Mail-in Rebate) Sigma Gaming LaVie Med-Tower Case w/ Window And Leather Trim Front Panel 420 Watts Power Supply
CPU: (Sckt775)Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E8400 CPU @ 3.0GHz 1333FSB 6MB L2 Cache 64-bit
MOTHERBOARD: (QX9650/9770 Support) Asus P5Q Pro Intel P45 CrossFire Chipset LGA775 FSB1600 DDR2/800 Mainboard w/GbLAN, USB2.0, IEEE1394, & 7.1Audio
MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory (Corsair or Major Brand)
VIDEO CARD: ATI Radeon HD 4850 PCI-E 16X 512MB Video Card (Major Brand Powered by ATI)
VIDEO CARD 2: NONE
VIDEO CARD 3: NONE
LCD Monitor: NONE
HARD DRIVE: Single Hard Drive (500GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM HDD)
Data Hard Drive: NONE
Optical Drive: (Special Price) LG 20X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER (BLACK COLOR)
Optical Drive 2: NONE
SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
PSU: PZXT 600Watt

Total: 775$

Ugh, Cyberpower. There's a reason they're so cheap.

 

[Wallach]

CASE: ($10 off Mail-in Rebate) Sigma Gaming LaVie Med-Tower Case w/ Window And Leather Trim Front Panel 420 Watts Power Supply

Wait... what?

 

[Agent Ironside]

Voltage = 1.4V
FSB = 400
Multi = 8

You are done :lol

Ooooor....

Voltage = 1.325
FSB = 355
Multi = 9

Keeps the core temps down.

 

[zoku88]

.

I've heard bad things about Cyberpower. I also think 600W is overkill.

500W is fine (I think even 400W is enough for that rig, someone else would have to confirm that.)

 

[SonOfABeep]

I'm seriously considering selling my PS3 (80GB MGS4 pack) to build a respectable gaming PC - Meaning my budget would be around $600 if I sold the games too. All I have to start with is a case and a Monitor.

Is this a feasible thing to do? I mostly want to run Team Fortress 2 and a few other steam games, but playing stalker and a few other games would be nice too.

 

[otake]

My jaw dropped when Portal ran at 1650x1080 at max settings with 2x AA at a steady 60FPS.
I have honestly never seen anything like that before. Usually I play those sorts of games at medium settings at ~20-30 FPS.

Thanks guys.
Amazing.

I was absolutely blown away when I saw half life 2: episode 1 at 1680 x 1050 everything on high 8x AA. Absolutely gorgeous. crysis may be technically more advanced but half life is just beautiful.

just bought a microsoft sidewinder mouse. I'm kind of bothered by the wheel but everything else is solid. don't buy razer mice. their drivers suck.

 

[Blackface]

Hmm, I was just checking out cyberpower pc while trying to help someone with a prebuilt on a different site, and it seems quite cheap. Made a decent config that's only 10-15$ more expensive then Newegg. Anyone got experience with that site?

The config:
CASE: ($10 off Mail-in Rebate) Sigma Gaming LaVie Med-Tower Case w/ Window And Leather Trim Front Panel 420 Watts Power Supply
CPU: (Sckt775)Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E8400 CPU @ 3.0GHz 1333FSB 6MB L2 Cache 64-bit
MOTHERBOARD: (QX9650/9770 Support) Asus P5Q Pro Intel P45 CrossFire Chipset LGA775 FSB1600 DDR2/800 Mainboard w/GbLAN, USB2.0, IEEE1394, & 7.1Audio
MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory (Corsair or Major Brand)
VIDEO CARD: ATI Radeon HD 4850 PCI-E 16X 512MB Video Card (Major Brand Powered by ATI)
VIDEO CARD 2: NONE
VIDEO CARD 3: NONE
LCD Monitor: NONE
HARD DRIVE: Single Hard Drive (500GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM HDD)
Data Hard Drive: NONE
Optical Drive: (Special Price) LG 20X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER (BLACK COLOR)
Optical Drive 2: NONE
SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
PSU: PZXT 600Watt

Total: 775$

Antec Sonata III 500 Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 500W Power Supply - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129024

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3500630AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148136

SAPPHIRE 100242L Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102747

LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model LH-20A1L-05 - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106073

A-DATA 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model ADQVE1B16K - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211188

GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128337

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8400 - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115037

$693

(CPU and Motherboard combo price)

2 more gigs of ram. free 2gb thumb-drive. Better burner, Solid PSU (Earthwatts) etc..

 

[Wallach]

Antec Sonata III 500 Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 500W Power Supply - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129024

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3500630AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148136

SAPPHIRE 100242L Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102747

LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model LH-20A1L-05 - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106073

A-DATA 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model ADQVE1B16K - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211188

GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128337

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8400 - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115037

$693

(CPU and Motherboard combo price)

2 more gigs of ram. free 2gb thumb-drive. Better burner, Solid PSU (Earthwatts) etc..

Personally I would switch the RAM out with this:

Corsair XMS2 DDR2 PC2 6400 4GB (2 x 2GB) - $82 - $20 MIR

Also, I'd probably go with the Toxic 4850 over Sapphire's reference, but that is just my preference.

 

[otake]

there's no love for the diamond cards in this thread.

 

[Blackface]

Personally I would switch the RAM out with this:

Corsair XMS2 DDR2 PC2 6400 4GB (2 x 2GB) - $82 - $20 MIR

Also, I'd probably go with the Toxic 4850 over Sapphire's reference, but that is just my preference.

For someone who isn't overclocking.

The ADATA has a limited lifetime warrenty, runs at the same timings, is cheaper, run at less volts, and runs cooler.

It's fantastic budget ram.

But everyone has a preference.

 

[Wallach]

For someone who isn't overclocking.

The ADATA has a limited lifetime warrenty, runs at the same timings, is cheaper, run at less volts, and runs cooler.

It's fantastic budget ram.

But everyone has a preference.

It's not bad by any means, but in this case the Corsair would come out cheaper, though I know some people do not care to wait for MIR returns.

Not so stealth edit - also, all of Corsair's DRAM comes with a lifetime warranty.

 

[ColdDeckEd]

With Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 on the horizon, I felt it prudent to upgrade my shitty old HP pavilion to pretty much a new computer. Old stuff: Athlon 64 3200+ (2ghz), 512mb ddr, GeForce 5200, 17'' lcd. New stuff: Pentium Dual Core e2180 (rock solid stable at 3.1, still working on getting it stable at 3.2), 2gb DDR2 800, an asus 4850, asrock p43 mobo, 22'' lcd (running dual screen with the old 17''), 500gb barracuda.11, new case and 550 w psu. Total build cost including monitor around 700 and the total cost will be less when my rebates come in (30 dollar rebates for the ram and 4850). Using my old HD with XP so I didn't have to buy an OS.

I'm absolutely floored at the difference it makes, not just with games, but just general computing stuff. With respect to gaming I mostly play DOTA, and the difference in that is also night and day. So far my highest 3dmark06 is 11759.

Thanks to this thread for the inspiration.

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

Downloaded Rivatuner. I don't want to mess this up, so, is there a more current guide for 8800gt's plus. It looks a little different than the one I see on the site.

 

[Blizzard]

With Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 on the horizon, I felt it prudent to upgrade my shitty old HP pavilion to pretty much a new computer. Old stuff: Athlon 64 3200+ (2ghz), 512mb ddr, GeForce 5200, 17'' lcd. New stuff: Pentium Dual Core e2180 (rock solid stable at 3.1, still working on getting it stable at 3.2), 2gb DDR2 800, an asus 4850, asrock p43 mobo, 22'' lcd (running dual screen with the old 17''), 500gb barracuda.11, new case and 550 w psu. Total build cost including monitor around 700 and the total cost will be less when my rebates come in (30 dollar rebates for the ram and 4850). Using my old HD with XP so I didn't have to buy an OS.

I'm absolutely floored at the difference it makes, not just with games, but just general computing stuff. With respect to gaming I mostly play DOTA, and the difference in that is also night and day. So far my highest 3dmark06 is 11759.

Thanks to this thread for the inspiration.

How the heck did you get that price including a (presumably decent) 22" LCD? I'm worried about the monitor jacking my cost up, along with if I get XP...since if I get OEM I only have one shot at installing it if something goes haywire.

 

[Wallach]

Downloaded Rivatuner. I don't want to mess this up, so, is there a more current guide for 8800gt's plus. It looks a little different than the one I see on the site.

It's pretty quick.

Open RivaTuner. Once you're on the main menu, you'll be on the 'Main' tab. Right under the tab header is the 'Target Adapter' section. You'll see your GPU/Monitor combo listed in a drop-down; right below that, on the right side, is the word 'Customize' with a triangle icon next to it. Click that.

In the small pop-up tab that appears, click the first icon (looks like a video card, hover-tip says 'Low-level system settings'. This will bring up the fan duty control panel.

On that panel, check the box at the top that says 'Enable low-level fan control'. Select the 'Fixed' option right below that, then change the slider to something like 60-70 percent. Farther down, you'll see the 'Apply fan settings at Windows startup' - check that, hit 'Save' just next to it, and you will be done.

 

[ColdDeckEd]

How the heck did you get that price including a (presumably decent) 22" LCD? I'm worried about the monitor jacking my cost up, along with if I get XP...since if I get OEM I only have one shot at installing it if something goes haywire.

I was not actually planning on buying a new monitor actually, for that very reason. Then I was going to opt for a 19'' for around 150, but I saw this one, a Hannspree (probably not the best brand) for 199 and figured it would be worth it to shell out the extra 50. So far it works well and looks great, so I'm glad I did it. Regarding costs, the mobo I got was extremely cheap (80 from newegg), and I bought all oem products when I could (cpu, hd). The case psu was a combo deal (ultra aluminus + 500w psu), and like I said I'm getting rebates for the ram and 4850. I'm using an my old HD with XP so I didn't have to shell out 100 for the OS. I'm guessing eventually I'll have to upgrade to Vista, but if D3 and SC2 don't require it, then I could hold off on that for at least another year.

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

It's pretty quick.

Open RivaTuner. Once you're on the main menu, you'll be on the 'Main' tab. Right under the tab header is the 'Target Adapter' section. You'll see your GPU/Monitor combo listed in a drop-down; right below that, on the right side, is the word 'Customize' with a triangle icon next to it. Click that.

In the small pop-up tab that appears, click the first icon (looks like a video card, hover-tip says 'Low-level system settings'. This will bring up the fan duty control panel.

On that panel, check the box at the top that says 'Enable low-level fan control'. Select the 'Fixed' option right below that, then change the slider to something like 60-70 percent. Farther down, you'll see the 'Apply fan settings at Windows startup' - check that, hit 'Save' just next to it, and you will be done.

Cool. Thanks. I'll have to keep this bookmarked. I downloaded EVGA Precision while waiting for a reply, and it seems to be cooling it off. I bumped it up to 70. If that doesn't work out, then I'll have this for Rivatuner. Thanks!

I think it might also be time to do a little cleaning.

edit: What temp should this be on(the actual card)?

 

[Hazaro]

Cool. Thanks. I'll have to keep this bookmarked. I downloaded EVGA Precision while waiting for a reply, and it seems to be cooling it off. I bumped it up to 70. If that doesn't work out, then I'll have this for Rivatuner. Thanks!

I think it might also be time to do a little cleaning.

edit: What temp should this be on(the actual card)?

<70C load imo

Temp is an over time problem, I didn't have any trouble playing Crysis for 2 hours at 92C for example.

With the fan 60% should be around 60C load.

 

[Blizzard]

Time to spam the thread more with noob questions! Slashdot inspired me today since they had a related article. Here's an intermediate build suggestion from TechReport:

Processor Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 $189.99
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3R $149.99
Memory Mushkin 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2-800 $79.99
Graphics Diamond Radeon HD 4850 $199.99
Storage Western Digital Caviar SE16 640GB $94.99
Samsung SH-S203N $29.99
Audio Asus Xonar DX $94.99
Enclosure Antec Sonata III w/500W PSU $124.95
Total Buy this complete system at Newegg. $964.88

Those components can probably be found for cheaper...for instance, I could go with the regular HD 4850 or the Toxic for $160 or $180 after rebates. Still haven't decided...leaning towards the Toxic, but it would be nice to know if anyone has used it and how loud it is. I'm not a super quiet freak, but I listen to enough background noise at work, and if I'm just programming or something I don't want to have to have the video card fan idling at the same speed.

Also, I didn't check whether the motherboard had onboard Audio...I don't know that I'd want a separate sound card if I can find a decent one (A) cheap and/or (B) onboard.

SO, if you guys would be so kind: What are some ways to bring the price down on this? I'll need to get an OS, almost certainly. I -may- end up with Vista though I really hope not...I could go with XP OEM Pro alone, but then I end up with the danger of not being able to reinstall in case of problems.

I want to keep 4 GB of RAM and probably the 500 W power supply if that's a reasonable number. Core 2 Duo of some sort is also good, probably 2.8 or 3.0 or whatever the non-overclocked step-below-the-top is. 640 GB space isn't a necessity at all...if I can find a good price on 300-500 GB it'd probably last me quite a while. I put photos and games on my system, but not tons of music as much.

Oh, and monitor, as stated above. Thanks for the continued advice!

 

[aznpxdd]

It'd be stupid to not go with Vista (preferably x64). Its performance on that rig is gonna shit on XP in every way.

Motherboards nowadays always have onboard sound, don't bother getting the DX unless you've got some nice speakers (aka none PC speakers). You can also cut down the cost without sacrificing much by switching the DS3R to a DS3L.

 

[SRG01]

Time to spam the thread more with noob questions! Slashdot inspired me today since they had a related article. Here's an intermediate build suggestion from TechReport:

Processor Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 $189.99
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3R $149.99
Memory Mushkin 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2-800 $79.99
Graphics Diamond Radeon HD 4850 $199.99
Storage Western Digital Caviar SE16 640GB $94.99
Samsung SH-S203N $29.99
Audio Asus Xonar DX $94.99
Enclosure Antec Sonata III w/500W PSU $124.95
Total Buy this complete system at Newegg. $964.88

Those components can probably be found for cheaper...for instance, I could go with the regular HD 4850 or the Toxic for $160 or $180 after rebates. Still haven't decided...leaning towards the Toxic, but it would be nice to know if anyone has used it and how loud it is. I'm not a super quiet freak, but I listen to enough background noise at work, and if I'm just programming or something I don't want to have to have the video card fan idling at the same speed.

Also, I didn't check whether the motherboard had onboard Audio...I don't know that I'd want a separate sound card if I can find a decent one (A) cheap and/or (B) onboard.

SO, if you guys would be so kind: What are some ways to bring the price down on this? I'll need to get an OS, almost certainly. I -may- end up with Vista though I really hope not...I could go with XP OEM Pro alone, but then I end up with the danger of not being able to reinstall in case of problems.

I want to keep 4 GB of RAM and probably the 500 W power supply if that's a reasonable number. Core 2 Duo of some sort is also good, probably 2.8 or 3.0 or whatever the non-overclocked step-below-the-top is. 640 GB space isn't a necessity at all...if I can find a good price on 300-500 GB it'd probably last me quite a while. I put photos and games on my system, but not tons of music as much.

Oh, and monitor, as stated above. Thanks for the continued advice!

Motherboards can go way cheaper than that. Most motherboards have onboard audio too.

Also, regarding the CPU, if you aren't gaming at super high resolutions, you can go for the E2xxx/E4xxx + heatsink/OC route. You'll need a good motherboard and PSU for that though. Or You can go the AMD route with the 5000+ (or higher ones) with cheaper motherboards. You might run into a bottleneck somewhere though.

edit: Do you have an old system you can rip apart?

 

[sonicspear64]

I've had a relatively average computer for almost 2 years (Intel Core 2 Duo E6300, 2 GB RAM, 7300LE, etc.). I upgraded my 7300LE to a 8800GT last month (maybe I'll upgrade to a 4850/4870 in about a year) . So for future games, would I need to get an entirely new computer or just upgrade something like the CPU (thinking about getting a Q6600 or a E8400)?

 

[Blizzard]

Motherboards can go way cheaper than that. Most motherboards have onboard audio too.

Also, regarding the CPU, if you aren't gaming at super high resolutions, you can go for the E2xxx/E4xxx + heatsink/OC route. You'll need a good motherboard and PSU for that though. Or You can go the AMD route with the 5000+ (or higher ones) with cheaper motherboards. You might run into a bottleneck somewhere though.

edit: Do you have an old system you can rip apart?

I have a very old system (i.e. like 3-4 years old)...probably not likely to be much use. I don't care to get into overclocking stuff, at least, not at this point.

The thing is, I hate Vista's bloated GUI system, bloated usage of memory, annoying incompatibility with programs and drivers, network/wireless problems I've heard about etc. etc. I guess maybe I'll end up with the cheapest/second cheapest Vista 64, but auuuugh.

Any suggestions on cheaper motherboard/CPU combos to go with it? Or case/PSU combos? That motherboard/CPU combo posted earlier sounded quite tempting.

(GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128337

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8400 - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115037)

Still looking for memory/HDD and especially monitor suggestions if any.

 

[zoku88]

The thing is, I hate Vista's bloated GUI system, bloated usage of memory, annoying incompatibility with programs and drivers, network/wireless problems I've heard about etc. etc. I guess maybe I'll end up with the cheapest/second cheapest Vista 64, but auuuugh.

You've&#12288;heard about, or experienced?

If the former: AAARGH, zoku MAD

 

[Blizzard]

You've&#12288;heard about, or experienced?

If the former: AAARGH, zoku MAD

I haven't used it myself, but I do use computers a lot, and I have read many, many accounts, from people I know personally and otherwise, of Vista issues. I'm also aware some of it, like the memory usage, is by design.

The driver and/or stability issues may be better now, I don't know. I just want a small[er] operating system that's fast. >_< Feels like such a waste to get a high-performance system finally and burn power on the OS.

 

[SRG01]

Vista 4GB > XP 4GB. Seriously. XP's performance diminishes after 2 GB (or less!).

The performance gap widens if you factor in 64 bit.

 

[soco]

the thing holding me back is the cost of a copy of vista

is it worth using the 64bit version over the 32bit version? i've heard there's all sorts of compatibility problems with it.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

the thing holding me back is the cost of a copy of vista

is it worth using the 64bit version over the 32bit version? i've heard there's all sorts of compatibility problems with it.

64-bit Vista Ultimate SP1 here and no issues or driver problems at all. Once you go 64, you NEVER go back.

 

[Pachael]

I've had a relatively average computer for almost 2 years (Intel Core 2 Duo E6300, 2 GB RAM, 7300LE, etc.). I upgraded my 7300LE to a 8800GT last month (maybe I'll upgrade to a 4850/4870 in about a year) . So for future games, would I need to get an entirely new computer or just upgrade something like the CPU (thinking about getting a Q6600 or a E8400)?

Good choice, upgrading the GPU. I think the E6300 should be able to run games well into the next 2 years. The only things are perhaps to up the RAM and/or getting a newer graphics card in the next year.

As for XP v Vista, from a gamer point of view think of it as DX9 v DX10/11. The new cards are doing better at DX10 before but for my needs DX9 is more than enough. That said, there'll be a time when you'll have to transition off XP for DX10/11 gaming and that might come in the next few years (You could just jump to Win 7/Nehalem combo).

 

[Wallach]

Time to spam the thread more with noob questions! Slashdot inspired me today since they had a related article. Here's an intermediate build suggestion from TechReport:

Processor Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 $189.99
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3R $149.99
Memory Mushkin 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2-800 $79.99
Graphics Diamond Radeon HD 4850 $199.99
Storage Western Digital Caviar SE16 640GB $94.99
Samsung SH-S203N $29.99
Audio Asus Xonar DX $94.99
Enclosure Antec Sonata III w/500W PSU $124.95
Total Buy this complete system at Newegg. $964.88

Those components can probably be found for cheaper...for instance, I could go with the regular HD 4850 or the Toxic for $160 or $180 after rebates. Still haven't decided...leaning towards the Toxic, but it would be nice to know if anyone has used it and how loud it is. I'm not a super quiet freak, but I listen to enough background noise at work, and if I'm just programming or something I don't want to have to have the video card fan idling at the same speed.

Also, I didn't check whether the motherboard had onboard Audio...I don't know that I'd want a separate sound card if I can find a decent one (A) cheap and/or (B) onboard.

SO, if you guys would be so kind: What are some ways to bring the price down on this? I'll need to get an OS, almost certainly. I -may- end up with Vista though I really hope not...I could go with XP OEM Pro alone, but then I end up with the danger of not being able to reinstall in case of problems.

I want to keep 4 GB of RAM and probably the 500 W power supply if that's a reasonable number. Core 2 Duo of some sort is also good, probably 2.8 or 3.0 or whatever the non-overclocked step-below-the-top is. 640 GB space isn't a necessity at all...if I can find a good price on 300-500 GB it'd probably last me quite a while. I put photos and games on my system, but not tons of music as much.

Oh, and monitor, as stated above. Thanks for the continued advice!

Well, to start with I would drop the sound card. It's not worthwhile with how far onboard audio has come, especially if you go the Vista 64-bit route (which I highly recommend) due to Vista not supporting hardware sound natively.

Aside from that, the E8400 is $20 cheaper than the price listed there, so that's a bit lower. Also, you could swap the case/PSU for this combo:

Antec 500w Earthwatts PSU
Antec Three Hundred Case

IMO, the Three Hundred is one of the best cases on the market for what they charge. A very well-built case, with smart decisions all around, and some features that you often don't see outside of the $100+ cases out there. Fantastic case.

The HDD listed there is solid, and is also currently $10 cheaper than the listed price, so that's a bit more savings. Also, as you already said the 4850s have come down a bit further so you'll pick up another $20-30, in some cases even before MIR.

As for the motherboard, it's a solid piece, but I would only recommend dipping into that price range if you are absolutely sure you are going to add a second full card to your rig somewhere down the line. If you are going to stick to a single card setup - including one of the dual-GPU models like the 4870x2 - you could easily shave another $30-50 by going with a different motherboard that only sports one PCI-E 2.0 slot. Here's a coupule examples of boards I would not hesitate to recommend on a budget (assuming LGA 775 socket):

Asus P5QL-E
Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3L (note: installing dynamic energy saver software included not recommended, great board otherwise)

The last two important pieces being the CPU and RAM - quite frankly I think those are both very solid choices, so I don't see any problems there. Out of preference I would probably swap the Mushkin for a 4GB set of Corsair, if only due to my own experiences with Mushkin sticks that did not stand the test of time.

I haven't used it myself, but I do use computers a lot, and I have read many, many accounts, from people I know personally and otherwise, of Vista issues. I'm also aware some of it, like the memory usage, is by design.

The driver and/or stability issues may be better now, I don't know. I just want a small[er] operating system that's fast. >_< Feels like such a waste to get a high-performance system finally and burn power on the OS.

No offense meant, but I think at this point in time, building a PC with modern equipment and throwing any version of XP on it is the definition of waste. Wasting the capabilities of these parts on a 32-bit OS is pretty much nonsense, and Vista 64-bit absolutely wrecks XP 64-bit for pretty much everything under the sun. No doubt, Vista had a shaky launch and it turned a lot of people off - in terms of where the OS stands now, I would not go back to XP if they refunded my Vista purchase cost twice over.

Spoiler

OK, maybe I would, but I would just buy another copy of Vista 64-bit and pocket the rest.

 

[Blizzard]

Lots of good stuff

Hmm. How about the $240 combo listed earlier for motherboard+CPU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128337
For:
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8400 - Retail
GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

Looks like the same CPU or similar, one PCI x16 slot (and yes, I don't forsee a need or desire to use CLI or whatnot).

As for the PSU+case combo you mentioned I'm not sold on more expensive cases yet...what features would you need vs. what ones do you need to make SURE of? I also don't see a combo including those two pieces together, if that's what you meant. And also, do you think 500W sounds like plenty for this setup so far?

 

[Wallach]

Hmm. How about the $240 combo listed earlier for motherboard+CPU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128337
For:
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8400 - Retail
GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

Looks like the same CPU or similar, one PCI x16 slot (and yes, I don't forsee a need or desire to use CLI or whatnot).

As for the PSU+case combo you mentioned I'm not sold on more expensive cases yet...what features would you need vs. what ones do you need to make SURE of? I also don't see a combo including those two pieces together, if that's what you meant. And also, do you think 500W sounds like plenty for this setup so far?

That is a great combo, and is indeed the same CPU we've already talked about. If you notice the motherboard it's paired with is one of the two boards there I listed that are 1 x PCI-E slots; solid board, but like I said I do not recommend installing the dynamic energy saving software for it as I've heard some weird things about it when it comes to both overclocking and gaming.

There is no combo for the case/PSU that I listed, but it would come out to be a little cheaper than the case/PSU combo from the article you quoted. The Antec Three Hundred is a very cheap case that, at least from my perspective, actually beats their own higher-end offering in the Antec Nine Hundred. It has everything you really need, cuts out things you don't (like that silly "put your stuff here" compartment on top of the Nine Hundred), and has some other really nice common-sense features that pretty much put it head and shoulders above any other case remotely within that price range.

As for the PSU, 500w will be more than enough for the computer we're talking about here so long as it's got enough juice coming down the 12v rail to satisfy your GPU reliably. Both the one listed in the combo deal you originally had and the one I linked below the Antec Three Hundred will do that with no problems whatsoever. Going beyond 500w is really unnecessary for almost anything that does not involve a SLI/CrossfireX (or similarly power-hungry dual-GPU) video card setup. The system you've put together on this page will probably top out around 300w under absolute peak draw, so you've got nothing to worry about.

 

[Blizzard]

More stuff

Awesome. I'll try putting together some actual numbers and continue to see if I find any monitor news. >_>

 

[Wallach]

Awesome. I'll try putting together some actual numbers and continue to see if I find any monitor news. >_>

As I'm insanely bored and waiting for laundry to dry at the moment, allow me to help:

Antec Three Hundred Case
Antec 500w Earthwatts PSU
Corsair XMS2 4GB DDR2 PC2 6400
Sapphire HD 4850 Video Card
Western Digital Caviar 640GB 7200 RPM SATA HDD
Samsung 22x DVD Burner w/ LightScribe

Along with the combo deal for these two:

Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3L
Intel C2D E8400 Wolfdale 3.0Ghz CPU

Total: $720.89

Note that is before MIR, of which there is $20 on the RAM, and $20 on the 4850.

 

[dLMN8R]

The thing is, I hate Vista's bloated GUI system, bloated usage of memory, annoying incompatibility with programs and drivers, network/wireless problems I've heard about etc. etc. I guess maybe I'll end up with the cheapest/second cheapest Vista 64, but auuuugh.

Trust me, the only thing you've heard is useless, inaccurate FUD. Nothing more.

Read this: http://www.tweakguides.com/VA_1.html

 

[Blizzard]

Trust me, the only thing you've heard is useless, inaccurate FUD. Nothing more.

Read this: http://www.tweakguides.com/VA_1.html

Actually, and I really TRULY don't mean to sound like an arrogant jerk about this, but no...I have a M.S. in computer engineering, and my used-to-be best friend tried Vista early on, to say nothing of other people I know or other details I've read. There are enough cases (even admitted in this thread) of incompatibilities and such, and I believe I've seen a few even mentioned on GAF. There are also reasons businesses haven't switched to Vista en masse, I suspect (cost probably being one).

I don't claim that Vista 64 is worse than XP 64. In fact, it sounds like with the new service pack and whatnot, things may be a lot better now. I think there -may- be an option to disable the high-memory usage caching, or so I hope. I should be able to opt out of Aero. DX 10 looks decent...I wish OpenGL was that good or that there was a better option for cross-platform 3D graphics.

I'm begrudgingly thinking that Vista may not be so terrible for programming/general use/gaming (though I expect to be annoyed by possible hardware lock-in and confirm/deny :lol) Anyway, my point is that, while I hope Vista is GREAT, since I'll probably end up with a 64-bit version of it, not EVERYTHING I've heard and read is useless, inaccurate, FUD. =P Thanks for the link, I'll bookmark it and hopefully I can find other guides for tweaks and such.

 

[Blizzard]

As I'm insanely bored and waiting for laundry to dry at the moment, allow me to help:

Antec Three Hundred Case
Antec 500w Earthwatts PSU
Corsair XMS2 4GB DDR2 PC2 6400
Sapphire HD 4850 Video Card
Western Digital Caviar 640GB 7200 RPM SATA HDD
Samsung 22x DVD Burner w/ LightScribe

Along with the combo deal for these two:

Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3L
Intel C2D E8400 Wolfdale 3.0Ghz CPU

Total: $720.89

Note that is before MIR, of which there is $20 on the RAM, and $20 on the 4850.

Add $20 for the Toxic, wouldn't you say? But thanks, bored sir. The monitor shall hopefully be figured out tomorrow!

 

[dLMN8R]

Actually, and I really TRULY don't mean to sound like an arrogant jerk about this, but no...I have a M.S. in computer engineering, and my used-to-be best friend tried Vista early on, to say nothing of other people I know or other details I've read. There are enough cases (even admitted in this thread) of incompatibilities and such, and I believe I've seen a few even mentioned on GAF. There are also reasons businesses haven't switched to Vista en masse, I suspect (cost probably being one).

I don't claim that Vista 64 is worse than XP 64. In fact, it sounds like with the new service pack and whatnot, things may be a lot better now. I think there -may- be an option to disable the high-memory usage caching, or so I hope. I should be able to opt out of Aero. DX 10 looks decent...I wish OpenGL was that good or that there was a better option for cross-platform 3D graphics.

I'm begrudgingly thinking that Vista may not be so terrible for programming/general use/gaming (though I expect to be annoyed by possible hardware lock-in and confirm/deny :lol) Anyway, my point is that, while I hope Vista is GREAT, since I'll probably end up with a 64-bit version of it, not EVERYTHING I've heard and read is useless, inaccurate, FUD. =P Thanks for the link, I'll bookmark it and hopefully I can find other guides for tweaks and such.

Just......read it. Do yourself a favor. Incompatibilities are a thing of the past. The operating system has been out for a year and a half. Businesses never adopt new OSs since they personally don't need them. Hell, it took them 2-3 years at least to install XP.

Aero is not a system hog. Hell, it makes the system run faster. Yeah, you can turn it off, but with a good video card it's completely useless and in fact slower to do. High-memory caching is a beneficial feature, you just misunderstand how it works. Plenty more there too.


Seriously, just read the article. It directly addresses every single issue you specifically brought up and a lot more that you were probably itching to type. I'm sorry, but dude, you're wrong here. Your M.S. in computer engineering means nothing when compared to real-world experience using the OS for a year and a half, and I'm a guy with an undergrad degree in Computer Engineering telling you this

 

[zoku88]

Actually, and I really TRULY don't mean to sound like an arrogant jerk about this, but no...I have a M.S. in computer engineering, and my used-to-be best friend tried Vista early on, to say nothing of other people I know or other details I've read. There are enough cases (even admitted in this thread) of incompatibilities and such, and I believe I've seen a few even mentioned on GAF. There are also reasons businesses haven't switched to Vista en masse, I suspect (cost probably being one).

Businesses aren't the fastest upgraders. I still know places that use Windows 2000...

And having an M.S. in computer engineering doesn't get you very far if you haven't tried it yourself... (nvm it not being CS.)


EDIT: Oh, I'm the least qualified person talking right now when it comes to computer engineer (3rd year student, lol.)

 

[Wallach]

Add $20 for the Toxic, wouldn't you say? But thanks, bored sir. The monitor shall hopefully be figured out tomorrow!

I would, but it sounded like you were still on the fence, and the MIR is the same for either card. If it's any help, as far as monitors go I'm a big fan of Samsung's 20-22 inch range, though they are more limited than some in terms of scaling if you plan to connect a PS3 to your monitor (360 shouldn't be a problem once the Fall update hits).

As far as the Vista discussion... I'm not going to discount anything you've heard or read based on assumptions, but I would seriously question anyone that brings up networking as a strike against Vista. Vista's networking is easily one of the biggest improvements of the OS compared to XP. I think there are definitely some arguments out there to be had in the XP v Vista debate, but networking I wouldn't put among them.

 

[MisterAnderson]

Can the gigabyte motherboard everyone has been posting (from the combo deal with the core duo processor) Sli or Crossfire? I didn't see anything that said it supported it or not.

 

[dLMN8R]

Also don't forget that, as of SP1's release many months ago, and updated graphics drivers at the time of its release, gaming performance is actually equal to or better in Vista than XP SP3.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2302500,00.asp


Today, drivers have been even further optimized.

 

[Blizzard]

Just......read it. Do yourself a favor. Incompatibilities are a thing of the past. The operating system has been out for a year and a half. Businesses never adopt new OSs since they personally don't need them. Hell, it took them 2-3 years at least to install XP.

Aero is not a system hog. Hell, it makes the system run faster. Yeah, you can turn it off, but with a good video card it's completely useless and in fact slower to do. High-memory caching is a beneficial feature, you just misunderstand how it works. Plenty more there too.


Seriously, just read the article. It directly addresses every single issue you specifically brought up and a lot more that you were probably itching to type. I'm sorry, but dude, you're wrong here. Your M.S. in computer engineering means nothing when compared to real-world experience using the OS for a year and a half, and I'm a guy with an undergrad degree in Computer Engineering telling you this

I'm aware my M.S. means nothing, I just got it, and I feel douche-y mentioning it. =P My point is just that I'm not TOTALLY unfamiliar, and I thought it was a little insulting for you to claim everything I'd seen was wrong, especially since a lot of that was from the early days of Vista. I think you admit that with the "incompatibilities are a thing of the past", though...since that implies there were incompatibilities. I expect to comment in this thread if I -do- find any, though.

I'll have to read the rest of the article later (past bedtime), and I'm especially interested in their and your take on the details of the high-memory caching. You even apparently know how I think it works (psychic?) since you know I misunderstand it, so please feel free to enlighten me how it actually works. I tend to be a little wary of trusting blog articles when they throw phrases like "the FUDsters" around, however. I think that's a reasonable approach.

*edit* Networking comment noted. I believe I did hear that Vista's networking stack was reworked, and specifically a lot of the (early?) complaints were about strange wireless networking behavior rather than general networking behavior. Wireless isn't likely to be an issue for me except with a Wii (and I may end up with a wireless router for that regardless)

 

[Wallach]

Can the gigabyte motherboard everyone has been posting (from the combo deal with the core duo processor) Sli or Crossfire? I didn't see anything that said it supported it or not.

Afraid not, it only has one available PCI-E slot.

I think Gigabyte's most comparable board to that with CrossfireX support in that range is the Gigabyte GA-EP45C-DS3R