Fallout-NL
Member
AstroLad said:
Holy shit. Very nice.
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Official 2008 "I Need A New PC" Thread
- Thread starter Kosma
- Start date
Holy shit. Very nice.
I haven't bought a desktop in forever so I figured I may as well do it right; plus I've got to at least handily beat my old (Sager) gaming laptop! The price is certainly pretty high even for my tastes.
So this comes out later? I guess for now the Velociraptor is good? I've read good things. I'm saving about $1200 going with the dual X5450 rather than the dual QX9775 but I'm guessing the bump between the two probably isn't quite worth the cost. Finally, sound card, meh? Not hooking it up to my living-room sound system and I don't want to clutter up my office area with speakers so it's built-in and headphones for me I'm guessing not worth it.
I'll definitely have to grab a monitor as well separately. Don't even want anything huge, just 20" or so.
EDIT: Man, I'm looking at monitors and reviews and it's crazy how many are at 1680. My damn 17" laptop monitor was 1920! 1920 or bust! (Not more though).
So this comes out later? I guess for now the Velociraptor is good? I've read good things. I'm saving about $1200 going with the dual X5450 rather than the dual QX9775 but I'm guessing the bump between the two probably isn't quite worth the cost. Finally, sound card, meh? Not hooking it up to my living-room sound system and I don't want to clutter up my office area with speakers so it's built-in and headphones for me I'm guessing not worth it.
I'll definitely have to grab a monitor as well separately. Don't even want anything huge, just 20" or so.
EDIT: Man, I'm looking at monitors and reviews and it's crazy how many are at 1680. My damn 17" laptop monitor was 1920! 1920 or bust! (Not more though).
brain_stew
Member
Seriously don't waste your money on skulltrail. Within a couple of months a Core i7 setup will blow it away for less than half the cost, you don't want to be locked into a platform that uses FB-DIMMs either.
Also, what exactly are you planning to do with this PC? If its gaming then, 8 cores is a really, really silly waste of cash, as a $200 dual core will perform just as well in games (actually potentially better due to higher clocks).
Honestly we're talking about getting an extra 5% of performance, for an extra $2000+, a terrible waste of cash if I've ever seen one. Also, one HD4870X2 is actually overkill for all current games, never mind two, the scaling is terrible with 4 cores, and in many games performance could be lower due to syncing problems and the stress it puts on your CPU.
Also, what exactly are you planning to do with this PC? If its gaming then, 8 cores is a really, really silly waste of cash, as a $200 dual core will perform just as well in games (actually potentially better due to higher clocks).
Honestly we're talking about getting an extra 5% of performance, for an extra $2000+, a terrible waste of cash if I've ever seen one. Also, one HD4870X2 is actually overkill for all current games, never mind two, the scaling is terrible with 4 cores, and in many games performance could be lower due to syncing problems and the stress it puts on your CPU.
AstroLad said:
You want to crossfire 4870x2's for a 20" monitor? :lol
You won't even see any difference until a 2560x1600 res and even at that res (with a lot of aa turned on) the difference a single or two 4870x2's is minimal, with a single often enough even performing better.
Also, don't expect games to be optimized for more then 4 cores in a long time.
brain_stew said:
Using it mostly for gaming.
Thanks for the advice to you and Antagon, but just fyi I didn't post that as "this is the BEST setup, and the BEST perfomance for my buck, I challenge any of you idiots to question my decisions." I'm looking for advice as to what to change! Like I said above I haven't had a desktop or looked into a desktop in ages.
To be clear, this is what I want: I want to be able to run Crysis at 1920, Very High settings, at least a steady 30-40 FPS. Now do I want to spend $2000 for "an extra 5% of performance" probably not. But at the same time I am willing to pay a modest premium for premium performance (even if not absolute top-of-the-line).
So then does this mean to just wait? I don't really think I want to wait that long, but as I indicated above I am very happy to hear suggestions re what's the best way to go right now.
Also, again, I'm not building this myself so that's a consideration too I suppose.
brain_stew
Member
ibuypower said:
Here's a system I put together for you at ibuypower.com for less than $2500 with all the trimmings, including a 1080p monitor, 3 year warranty and shipping. Case, mouse, keyboard and stuff are down to personal preference so I left them at default. I'd call it overkill but I've not gone stupid in any area and that machine will more than accomplish what you're after. Pumping anything more into it would just be sending bad money after good. Gaming performance between this and your other rig would be minute at best. Just so I can get an idea how much would that Skulltrail setup have set you buck.
You might want to switch up that quad for a higher clocked dual core as even though it'll be cheaper gaming performance may be better. Still, having such a highly clocked quad is going to have you sitting pretty if games start demanding more than 2 cores in the future.
lachesis
Member
I finally found which one of my Crucial DDR2-1066 was behaving bad. Obviously it's the new one that I got - the single sided one. 
I ran memtest overnight for remaning 1gbx2 older Ballistix Tracer, and ran fine - and I'll be going to requesting RMA for the bad pair - hopefully I could get a refund (#1 choice - but I bought from Newegg, so not sure whether I could get a refund) - or get older version of the Ballistix Tracer (double sided). I think for my living room computer, 2gb would probably suffice for what I'm using it for, so if I can get refund, it would be a win-win situation.
much thanks to Hazaro.
Here's rather non-related question. My wife has a workstation at work, which has (probably) not-so-highend Quadro video cards for her 3d max machine with a Xeon processor. I've put our main computer a Q6600 quad, and 8800 GTS g92 ver with 512 RAM, and I was hoping it would top her work machine at work - but apparently it's about the same. She uses my main computer when she works at home - so I'm rather intrigued to provide her best computer I can sensibly afford... and when I looked at some of those Quadro cards - OMG. The price was absolutely out of my range - top of the line was about 2200 dollars at newegg!
So, question is... what makes the quadro so much better for working at 3d applications, Auto CAD, etc? Is Xeon processor a much better CPU than normal Core2 Quad series?
I ran memtest overnight for remaning 1gbx2 older Ballistix Tracer, and ran fine - and I'll be going to requesting RMA for the bad pair - hopefully I could get a refund (#1 choice - but I bought from Newegg, so not sure whether I could get a refund) - or get older version of the Ballistix Tracer (double sided). I think for my living room computer, 2gb would probably suffice for what I'm using it for, so if I can get refund, it would be a win-win situation.much thanks to Hazaro.
Here's rather non-related question. My wife has a workstation at work, which has (probably) not-so-highend Quadro video cards for her 3d max machine with a Xeon processor. I've put our main computer a Q6600 quad, and 8800 GTS g92 ver with 512 RAM, and I was hoping it would top her work machine at work - but apparently it's about the same. She uses my main computer when she works at home - so I'm rather intrigued to provide her best computer I can sensibly afford... and when I looked at some of those Quadro cards - OMG. The price was absolutely out of my range - top of the line was about 2200 dollars at newegg!
So, question is... what makes the quadro so much better for working at 3d applications, Auto CAD, etc? Is Xeon processor a much better CPU than normal Core2 Quad series?
Gully State
Member
What's a good criteria to determine what kind of motherboard I should purchase? Basically I want to know what's the difference b/t a upper $200 mobo and a sub-$100 one. I'm looking into overhauling my desktop (mobo/CPU/GPU/memory) for gaming and I want to keep my budget in the sub-$500 region. I have a build in mind but the mobo I picked is on the cheap end (no need to SLI support) and I honestly have no idea what necessary functions other than processor support, PCIE 2.0 etc...
brain_stew
Member
AstroLad said:
Well the Veloceraptor drives are super quick but are very expensive per GB and might not be quite as reliable. So its nice to have a nice big secondary HDD for all of your data, and a super quick, but smaller drive for your OS and programs/games. Since standard SATA HDDs are so cheap per GB you might as well throw in a 500GB+ drive if your budget permits it.
It also means that if you need to do a reinstall you don't have to worry about backing up all your data, as its on a completely separate drive.
brain_stew
Member
Gully State said:
OC ability, number of SATA ports, crossfire/SLI support, and better RAID support are all features of higher end boards. However since a low end board like a Gigabyte DS3L will clock like a dream, is made of all solid capacitors and has more than enough SATA ports for most, there's no real need to go any higher unless you're building an uber rig or dual GPU support is important to you.
Newegg.com currently have a P35-DS3L open box for $50!! That is a ridiculous steal for anyone on a budget and most consumers wouldn't notice the diference between it and a $200+ board sans the lack of Crossfire, I'd snap it up straight away if I was you.
Gully State
Member
brain_stew said:
can you link it? I didn't find it on newegg.
brain_stew
Member
Gully State said:
Looks like its sold out now I'm afraid, sorry.
For $100, this is the best bang for buck I reckon:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128345
Gully State
Member
brain_stew said:
oh well...I want to put something together in the next year or so as my almost 4 year old computer is definitely long in the tooth. The 2 games I want to play are Crysis Warhead and Mass Effect. I was just tempted last night as I was piecing together some components and it came out to be under $450 (including tax/shipping but then it also includes $80 mail in rebates- I only need a GPU/CPU/MEM/MOBO as everything else can be carried over.)
I have one VelociRaptor. The throughput is not really impressive compared with new hard drives (about 5-10 Mb faster), but I/O operations and response time are far better than everything else, unless you go SAS but that would be insane :lol
SSD is too costly, and the most affordable drives aren't too impressive in performance and space.
I recommended what brain_stew said, one quick and small hard drive for SO and a big one for storage. Also the mobo he linked is very good if you don't plan to use Crossfire.
SSD is too costly, and the most affordable drives aren't too impressive in performance and space.
I recommended what brain_stew said, one quick and small hard drive for SO and a big one for storage. Also the mobo he linked is very good if you don't plan to use Crossfire.
brain_stew
Member
AstroLad said:
You'll get no performance gains from DDR3 as the FSB just can't handle the bandwidth. Pointless waste of cash when DDR2 is so affordable and can run at speeds that support a FSB well above the standard Intel specification.
Even DDR2-1066 is unnecessary unless you plan a major OC (e.g. 4ghz+).
Personally I'd recommend the slower quad and to clock it up, then pocket the difference, but if you're not willing to do that then its a fair choice.
brain_stew
Member
AstroLad said:
IMO its silly to choose a monitor on its sound options, you could be seriously gimping the IQ, for something that can very easily be bought aftermarket. You'd have far higher quality sound that way as well. I know space may be an issue, but there's plenty of discreet options available.
brain_stew said:
Space is at a premium for and I don't want speakers all over the place. Little knick-knacks and wires all over/behind/under my desk just bug the shit out of me. Just give me a monitor, wireless k/b and mouse and that's all I want. I know the speaker will "suck" but I'd prefer to have the option. Not looking for a pseudo-7.1 speaker bar or anything, my sound before this was my awful laptop speakers sooo....
Hypertrooper
Member
hey guys i need a new PC for 1300. I want to capture HD Videos(=Intensity Pro), i have 2TB external Harddrives so i need only 320gb harddrive. I hope you can help me.
brain_stew
Member
Hypertrooper said:
Well that's an awful lot of money for a PC. My advice? Don't go overboard, there's no need to spend it all if you can accomplish what you want for a lot less.
Planning to buy now, or perhaps waiting a few months is OK? Just if you're going to be spending that amount then you may get more for your cash with a Core i7 rig, though a quad core Penryn would more than suffice.
You comfortable with overclocking? If you are I'd go with a Q6600, such a bargain now considering it'll clock to 3ghz+ very comfortably. Not planning on clocking then a Q9550 will probably give you the best bang for your buck before overspending unnecessarily.
What about games? Are they at all a concern? If they're very low down on the list I'd go with the 4670 as it is cheap, has minute power requirements, but will still kick the ass of most games at 720p. It'll also accelerate HD video decoding quite excellently which is nice. Want to get more out of your games? Then start looking at the 4850 and beyond. You can afford pretty much what you want at this budget in terms of the GPU so it all depends on your needs.
Add 4GB of DDR2-800 branded RAM and either a P45 (e.g. Gigabyte DS3) or X48 motherboard depending on whether games are a major priority and you'd like crossfire support or not and you're looking at the beginnings of a very nice rig.
donkey show
Member
It's been awhile since I've built a rig, but since I magically acquired a Phenom 8650 tri-core, I guess now is the best time as any. Anyway, I was looking at getting an HD 4850... preferably between these two for some odd reason:
Sapphire 512MB HD 4850
or...
Palit 512MB HD 4850S+T352 overclocked to 685Mhz
What's a decent power supply to go with either of these cards?
Sapphire 512MB HD 4850
or...
Palit 512MB HD 4850S+T352 overclocked to 685Mhz
What's a decent power supply to go with either of these cards?
AstroLad said:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3948578&Sku=S203-2418
And one 4870X2 is enough, trust me.
ok deal.
i trust you kadey since i know you have personally tried everything out, and probably still own most of it too.
ooh looks even a tad cheaper on newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001275
i trust you kadey since i know you have personally tried everything out, and probably still own most of it too.
ooh looks even a tad cheaper on newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001275
brain_stew
Member
donkey show said:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139003
Excellent efficiency and it'll actually deliver a good deal more than the quoted wattage, more than enough for nigh on any single GPU setup and many multi GPU rigs, only $55 after rebate.
I'd pick up the $150 card, no sense spending an extra $40 on something that is essentialy the same.
Aurean_Mentat
Member
Thanks for the input everyone, looking at some Radeon HD 4850's now... interestingly enough, they're a little cheaper, too :lol :lol :lol
Is the performance difference between an GeForce 9800 GTX and Radeon HD 4850 that noticeable? It seems to be the one everyone is recommending, which leads me to one more question....
on newegg.com, they list about 12 different ones for the Radeon HD 4850. Any specific one anyone can recommend on both performance and staying cool? Been reading up on them, and their one problem seems to be the high temps they stay at... some tweaking is good, but just looking for something that after I spend 200 dollars on it, isn't going to melt itself, or anything.
Is the performance difference between an GeForce 9800 GTX and Radeon HD 4850 that noticeable? It seems to be the one everyone is recommending, which leads me to one more question....
on newegg.com, they list about 12 different ones for the Radeon HD 4850. Any specific one anyone can recommend on both performance and staying cool? Been reading up on them, and their one problem seems to be the high temps they stay at... some tweaking is good, but just looking for something that after I spend 200 dollars on it, isn't going to melt itself, or anything.
brain_stew
Member
Aurean_Mentat said:
The chips themselves all come from the same factory, what you need to look out for is high end custom cooling solutions. For best results, buy the cheapest card you can find then fit an Accelero S1 with a 120mm fan strapped to its back, super cheap upgrade, very quiet and it'll probably half your temps.
donkey show
Member
Ah thanks for the info on the PSU y'all. I was afraid I needed something a little beasty.
Oh shit, the price dropped $5 from yesterday. Sweet.brain_stew said:
Ok, so I've never engaged in any sort of OCing. From what I've been reading about the Core 2 Duo E7200, it looks like maybe it's a better deal at $119.99 than the $87 Athlon 64 X2 5600+ Brisbane. Is it faster at stock speeds anyway? How much work actually goes into OCing CPUs? I was always timid about these sorts of things, worrying that I'd somehow burn out my PC if I tried it.
So, Vista Home Premium 64 isn't too bad so far...I've been turning off stuff and tweaking.
But I just found out its zip file support is broken, what the crap? I tried downloading a zip from Nintendo and had to get 7-zip to successfully extract it. Fortunately, 7-zip rocks anyway...
But I just found out its zip file support is broken, what the crap? I tried downloading a zip from Nintendo and had to get 7-zip to successfully extract it. Fortunately, 7-zip rocks anyway...
brain_stew
Member
TuxBobble said:
Any midrange PC bought today will run both of those games just fine. A core 2 duo, 2GB RAM, 8800GT (or better) rig is cheap as chips and will sail through those two with ease.
lachesis
Member
DarthWoo said:
You probably won't burn out your pc.
It was not as complicated i thought it would be - at least to begin with, that is. Watch your temperature using various measurements at full loads, considering your cpu fsb and memory bus etc... just upping a little by little and try various tests... It's pretty much all trial and error.I hear for e7200 that people just jack up the fsb to 333 mhz and worked just fine without changing anything. e7200, being 45 nm chip, supposedly OC quite well, and has pretty high tolerance at 75c, I believe.
Frankly, I have e7200 and running at stock speed. So far its fast enough for me, and I don't see any real reason that I need to oc this for now. (I even got a aftermarket cooler, that I would need OC - but realize this is just as good as I want it for now.)
lachesis said:You probably won't burn out your pc.
I hear for e7200 that people just jack up the fsb to 333 mhz and worked just fine without changing anything. e7200, being 45 nm chip, supposedly OC quite well, and has pretty high tolerance at 75c, I believe.
Frankly, I have e7200 and running at stock speed. So far its fast enough for me, and I don't see any real reason that I need to oc this for now. (I even got a aftermarket cooler, that I would need OC - but realize this is just as good as I want it for now.)
3.8 > 2.53
4.0Ghz Is also possible but takes a boost in voltage higher than I would like. It's had not having a 4.0Ghz Chip, but I'm living with it :lol
At least put it at 3.2 as that is where the CPU benefit in games starts to die off. You aren't doing it justice.
Read up a guide or two and ask an overclocking forum, chips have thermal throttling and shut down before they kill themselves. Unless you dump voltage in it then stress it it'll be fine.
brain_stew
Member
DarthWoo said:
Yes it should be a good bit better than pretty much any X2 at stock. OCing really is quite simple. If you're at all concerned then don't touch the voltage and just notch up the FSB by a few %. Load up Orthos and RealTemp and run for say 10 hours. If it stays under 70C and does hangup then the jobs a good 'un. Its always best to read up on the many guides spread accross the web first of all though.
If you just want a real mild OC then set the FSB in the BIOS to 320 and then you can leave everything else at default. You'll then have a 3.04ghz processor for two minutes work, and I'd say you've got a good 95% chance of that working fine without altering anything else. Just run Orthos and RealTemp overnight to be sure. Such a small OC will be quite possible on stock cooling though I'd always recommend a quality budget cooler like the AKasa AK-965 even to those running at stock.
Got my parts in today. The GTX 260 is a monster overclocker.
Core is 576mhz stock...OCed it to 680mhz.
Memory is 2000mhz stock...OCed it to 2520mhz.
eVGA's high end factory overclocked GTX 260, the FTW edition, is 660/2214, and meets stock GTX 280 performance in most cases. My overclocked (factory stock) card should be better than stock GTX 280 performance at the above levels...for a $240 part. Fantastic.
Core is 576mhz stock...OCed it to 680mhz.
Memory is 2000mhz stock...OCed it to 2520mhz.
eVGA's high end factory overclocked GTX 260, the FTW edition, is 660/2214, and meets stock GTX 280 performance in most cases. My overclocked (factory stock) card should be better than stock GTX 280 performance at the above levels...for a $240 part. Fantastic.
I am finally getting a new PC after YEARS of not having a capable gaming rig. I'm pretty excited.
2.4GHz Intel Quad Core 2 Duo
ASUS P5Q Deluxe Motherboard
4 GB DDR2 RAM
2 x 500 GB Seagate Barricuda 7200RPM, 32MB Cache
XFX Nvidia 9800GTX Black Edition (760Mhz, 512 MB)
Will I be OK with Vista Ultimate 64-bit for gaming?
2.4GHz Intel Quad Core 2 Duo
ASUS P5Q Deluxe Motherboard
4 GB DDR2 RAM
2 x 500 GB Seagate Barricuda 7200RPM, 32MB Cache
XFX Nvidia 9800GTX Black Edition (760Mhz, 512 MB)
Will I be OK with Vista Ultimate 64-bit for gaming?
gray_fox224
Junior Member
EviLore said:
Wow, nice!
dLMN8R said:
RocketFish Case from BestBuy (Lian-Li make)
You can find em still sitting in stores for $48-120 (Mostly $47 or $80), giant big red case.
Light, roomy, roomy, good finish.
If you want smaller the venerable Centurion 5 is an option at $50
(RocketFish) Excuse my mess
*edit Better pic
Lian Li A05B. It goes on sale from time to time (got mine for 80$ shipped months back), so just wait if you've got time. Its sexy, light and as small as an ATX case can get.dLMN8R said:
