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Official April 2008 NPD thread of massive disappointment if you're not Nintendo

Shaheed79 said:
F*ck that play Godfather Blackhand Edition and repent! Someone has to expand upon GBE's astounding control mechanics sooner or later. Hopefully sooner rather than later. The Blackhand team was one of the few developers who "got it" and understood what the Wii could do which is quite amazing for a port of game that wasn't designed for Wii.

I so fuckin' agree with you. I LOVE Godfather Blackhand Edition. When I started playing it, I never wanted to put it down because the controls were so intuitive. I wish that team would expand upon it when making a new Godfather or use those controls to make an entirely new game.

I remember watching the previews for it on IGN and when I saw the dude jerking around some NPC by jerking his hands, I knew it was going to be a fun game.

Also, about the comment you had quoted, Metroid PRime 3 could be done with a traditional controller, but its gameplay would have to be severely altered. There were a lot of small, fast moving targets in the game. And the first Seed boss, Molenar, would be pretty much impossible to beat. In fact, all of them would be pretty much impossible to beat.

Tobor said:
My hope is that Rockstar will work on a Wii GTA game that mimics what Godfather did.

If they did that, I'd buy it day one.
 
But from what I can see, third parties aren't making money, on the whole. That's a critical problem in this theory, because it relies on the premise that third parties can be profitable anywhere; whatever they're doing now doesn't seem to be working on an economic level, based on what I've read. That doesn't mean the Wii/DS are the answer, however, it just means something needs to change.

I think alot of people underestimate the importance of good 1st Party software. Back in the day, when Ninty and Sega ruled the world, it was the big 1st party titles that drove the systems. We talk and worry so much about 3rd Partys but they may not be as "critical" as you believe. I like good 3rd party software but its not always a system seller.
 

justchris

Member
Leondexter said:
I'd say the truth is somewhere in the middle. The Wii has some nice tech in it, but graphically, it's definitely last-gen, comparable to the Gamecube, and the Cube was not a big loss leader like so many consoles are; Nintendo was able to sell it above cost, mostly. The Wii is definitely selling considerably below cost, while the 360 and PS3 are big loss leaders. I'd say they've overshot, yes, but the Wii is lagging.

Woah, woah, woah, I did not say the Wii wasn't lagging, I said Sony & MS overshot. At about 75% of their current power, the 360 & PS3 would be a big enough step above last gen to be worthwhile, without having to cost so bloody much.


Leondexter said:
You can't "take the Wii and DS out" and say what's left is what "would be". Nothing exists in a vacuum. The game industry has been booming for 20+ years. If there were no Wii or DS, that wouldn't change. Something would pick up the slack. Maybe it would be the HD consoles, or maybe it would be the portables, or maybe the PS2, or another company's device. But it wouldn't be grim. It'd still be growing.

That may be true in the US, possibly even in Europe, but it wasn't true in Japan. The gaming industry in Japan had been on a decline for a few years before the DS was introduced. Nintendo's stabs at new types of gaming to bring in other markets was a direct result of their seeing this decline. Who's to say what would have been without the DS and Wii? There may not have been any slack to pick up.

Annoying Old Party Man said:
Also, people are so dellusional about what nintendo actually did here.
Nintendo just decided to skip the technical race - since the N64 actually - and concentrate on these things

Why did they bother making the GCN more powerful than the PS2 then?
 

Gaborn

Member
justchris said:
Why did they bother making the GCN more powerful than the PS2 then?

Because they thought that would help them achieve the best success in the market. They realized they were wrong and found a better way to compete, meanwhile, Sony essentially made the same mistake with the PS3 that Nintendo did with the gamecube, they went with more power rather than focusing on making the games themselves interesting and accessible.
 

Flakster99

Member
Olaeh said:
The meltdowns in this thread are comedy gold. :lol

Yeah, there have been some nice reads mixed in with the nutty, disingenuous meltdowns, it's been a fun read never the less. ;)

And to think, all this excitement because Nintendo is establishing themselves not only as the unquestionable market leader, but have from the ground level they have re-built their market power, awareness, marketability to insane levels.
 

donny2112

Member
tfur said:
Can someone post the year over year, for the months of 2008... for the various consoles?

Clever Pun said:
did I miss donny's LTD and YTD graphs?

Just caught up with the thread.

Actual

yoy_360-2.png


yoy_PS3-2.png


yoy_WII-2.png



Estimated

WWConsoles-9.png


PS360vsWII-7.png


radioheadrule83 said:

:)
 
This has been the most entertaining NPD thread in a very long time. Things have been too predictable, but this is the kind of shameful and exuberant whipping that brings out the "best" in everyone. Especially the hardlycores.

I just wish the GIFs would make a comeback. I also miss some of the crazier PS3 fans from around launch time. They were great.

Tobor said:
My hope is that Rockstar will work on a Wii GTA game that mimics what Godfather did.

GTA: Drive-By

For use with Wheel and Zapper, featuring levels, vehicles and characters from all GTAs.
 
justchris said:
Why did they bother making the GCN more powerful than the PS2 then?

The Gamecube was in some way a machine born in the "middle of the road", between Nintendo's old philosophy and the new, re-emerging Nintendo.

Yes, the machine was built to compete with the existing machines, but from the status quo of the last three generations (NES=powerful home "computer"), Super NES (MODE 7, Most powerful machine), N64 (no need to even go there), we went to Gamecube, which essentially had nothing to boast technically wise against PS2. I remember that the press tried to hold on from something being used to boast about the power of the new nintendo machine, and we ended up with a motto that reminded us that "...it's actually 25% more powerfull than PS2!".

But the signs were already there. Nintendo went again with practicallity and form - factor, but the end - result was the ackward box with that silly handle. They also tried to push differentation but in actuality they had very little - a connectivity scheme with GBA and the supposed "Nintendo Difference", which was just a couple of exclusive titles and nothing more.

One last comment, the success of the Wii right now seems more like a matter of marketing and proper managerial decisions than anything else. For a machine that promised to change gaming forever, Wii has only proven that it can offer something different. Yes, it is mass market, but does it really offer a better gaming experience than it's competitors?

Personally, i would say that it's dynamic, new gameplay propositions that the controller offers are "neutralized" by it's technical shortcomings in many fields (not just raw power).
 

RBH

Member
jgwhiteus said:
Posted?

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2008/05/16/more_npd_game_sales_data_--_the_top_20/

More NPD game sales data — the top 20
By Mike Antonucci
Friday, May 16th, 2008 at 3:34 pm in Art & Animation, General, Hot Lists, Mike Antonucci, Movies & DVDs, Music, Nooch on Gaming, TV, Xbox.

Here’s the list of top-selling games for April 6 through May 3. Today’s release extends the list through the top 20:

(* = includes special and bundled editions)
(** = not in the top 20 for March)

March/April ranks……… Title/platform/publisher
**/1 ………………Grand Theft Auto IV (Xbox 360) Take-Two*
**/2 ……………….Mario Kart (Wii) Nintendo
**/3 ……………….GTA IV (PS3) Take-Two*
4/4 ……………….Wii Play/with remote (Wii) Nintendo
1/5 ……………….Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Wii) Nintendo
**/6 ……………….Gran Turismo 5 Prologue (PS3) Sony
**/7 ……………….Pokemon/Explorers of Darkness (DS) Nintendo
**/8 ……………….Pokemon/Explorers of Time (DS) Nintendo
7/9 ……………….Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock (Wii) Activision
9/10 ……………….Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (360) Activision*
6/11 ……………….Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII (PSP) Square Enix
2/12 ……………….Rainbow Six: Vegas 2 (Xbox 360) Ubisoft*
20/13 ………………..Naruto: Ultimate Ninja 3 (PS2) Namco Bandai
19/14 ………………..Game Party (Wii) Midway
14/15 ………………..Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock (PS2) Activision*
18/16 ………………..New Super Mario Bros. (DS) Nintendo
**/17 ………………..Mario Kart (DS) Nintendo
**/18 ………………..Rock Band (Xbox 360) MTV/Electronic Arts*
13/19 ………………..Mario Party (DS) Nintendo
**/20 ……………….Super Mario Galaxy (Wii) Nintendo

That's
Wii-6
DS-5
360-4
PS3-2
PS2-2
PSP-1

Pretty well spread out, I think, and it's good to finally see what goes on below the top 10 - I guess that's where games like NSMB have been hiding for a while. Does anyone have numbers for any of the 11-20 games, or the highest selling game not on this list? Might give us a sense of rough numbers.

And, um, is Game Party Midway's best-selling (recent) IP?
Thanks for posting this. It's always nice to see stuff beyond the Top 10.

And wtf @ Game Party charting in the Top 20.
 

RJT

Member
Count Dookkake said:
This has been the most entertaining NPD thread in a very long time. Things have been too predictable, but this is the kind of shameful and exuberant whipping that brings out the "best" in everyone. Especially the hardlycores.
True. I can't wait for MSG4 month. After that I think the race will be officially over, possibly even for second place.
 

Rocksteady33

Junior Member
RJT said:
True. I can't wait for MSG4 month. After that I think the race you will officially over, possibly even for second place.

June really will be an interesting month. Obviously with MGS4, but also I believe it will be then that Wii Fit really shows its power as I feel initial sales for the game will be "good" but word of mouth and mass media press won't give full coverage to it until a week or two after its release meaning June could be the month of Wii Fit and Wii.

What does Xbox 360 have for June?
 

Talamius

Member
RJT said:
True. I can't wait for MSG4 month. After that I think the race you will officially over, possibly even for second place.

I'll be surprised if the US doesn't finish Wii >>>>>> 360 > PS3. With the 360 and PS3 splittling the already niche "hardly-core" (love that term) market in half, I suspect the two will be within ~100k of each other for the foreseeable future. The only reason I think 360 finishes second is because of the launch head start.
 

BigDug13

Member
Annoying Old Party Man said:
The Gamecube was in some way a machine born in the "middle of the road", between Nintendo's old philosophy and the new, re-emerging Nintendo.

Yes, the machine was built to compete with the existing machines, but from the status quo of the last three generations (NES=powerful home "computer"), Super NES (MODE 7, Most powerful machine), N64 (no need to even go there), we went to Gamecube, which essentially had nothing to boast technically wise against PS2. I remember that the press tried to hold on from something being used to boast about the power of the new nintendo machine, and we ended up with a motto that reminded us that "...it's actually 25% more powerfull than PS2!".

But the signs were already there. Nintendo went again with practicallity and form - factor, but the end - result was the ackward box with that silly handle. They also tried to push differentation but in actuality they had very little - a connectivity scheme with GBA and the supposed "Nintendo Difference", which was just a couple of exclusive titles and nothing more.

One last comment, the success of the Wii right now seems more like a matter of marketing and proper managerial decisions than anything else. For a machine that promised to change gaming forever, Wii has only proven that it can offer something different. Yes, it is mass market, but does it really offer a better gaming experience than it's competitors?

Personally, i would say that it's dynamic, new gameplay propositions that the controller offers are "neutralized" by it's technical shortcomings in many fields (not just raw power).

I honestly think the Wii is mostly proving that the general public, who still does not own an HDTV in the "kid's room", is not ready to pay the top dollar for the high def systems. Even the 5-6 year old PS2 continues to nearly match the PS3 in sales each month.

I thought bluray winning the war would push more people towards the PS3, but honestly the same issue exists there. People are happy with DVD's that can play in the bedroom, kid's room, VAN, portable players/laptops, ripped to ipod, and still look pretty damn good upconverted on the top players in the living room, for half the price of bluray discs.
 
Talamius said:
I'll be surprised if the US doesn't finish Wii >>>>>> 360 > PS3. With the 360 and PS3 splittling the already niche "hardly-core" (love that term) market in half, I suspect the two will be within ~100k of each other for the foreseeable future. The only reason I think 360 finishes second is because of the launch head start.

I aim to please.

Spread the comedy.
 
BigDug13 said:
I honestly think the Wii is mostly proving that the general public, who still does not own an HDTV in the "kid's room", is not ready to pay the top dollar for the high def systems. Even the 5-6 year old PS2 continues to nearly match the PS3 in sales each month.

I thought bluray winning the war would push more people towards the PS3, but honestly the same issue exists there. People are happy with DVD's that can play in the bedroom, kid's room, VAN, portable players/laptops, ripped to ipod, and still look pretty damn good upconverted on the top players in the living room, for half the price of bluray discs.


Yeah i agree, but it's only because of perception people are still buying 5 times the Wii's instead of 360, since the second console is practicaly now cheaper than the first and (objectively) offers better value for it's money.
 

Agent Icebeezy

Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
BigDug13 said:
I honestly think the Wii is mostly proving that the general public, who still does not own an HDTV in the "kid's room", is not ready to pay the top dollar for the high def systems. Even the 5-6 year old PS2 continues to nearly match the PS3 in sales each month.

I thought bluray winning the war would push more people towards the PS3, but honestly the same issue exists there. People are happy with DVD's that can play in the bedroom, kid's room, VAN, portable players/laptops, ripped to ipod, and still look pretty damn good upconverted on the top players in the living room, for half the price of bluray discs.

We seem to have reached the same conclusion for both gaming and movie playback. Last generation's formats are graphics are good enough for the majority of consumers.
 

Tobor

Member
Annoying Old Party Man said:
Yeah i agree, but it's only because of perception people are still buying 5 times the Wii's instead of 360, since the second console is practicaly now cheaper than the first and (objectively) offers better value for it's money.

This is not the case for the majority of consumers. You guys can argue perception all day, but perception is sometimes reality.
 

Neomoto

Member
Because I'm bored:

Microsoft: *looks at NPD*

Xbox360: 10.1 million sold
Wii: 9.5 million sold

Microsoft: "First to 10 million wins!"

wii-sike.gif


6pyviw2.gif

(Wii vs 360)

10di7bt.gif


:)
 

Deku

Banned
kame-sennin said:
Subtracting Nintendo sales and sighting the remainder as an estimate of what 360/PS3 would have sold had Wii/DS never been released would be faulty analysis. But the industry is not little league baseball where everyone gets a trophy. Consoles are not rewarded for simply being on the market. Sales of the PS3 and 360 went down the same month that the biggest franchise in console gaming released it's most anticipated sequal. Something has gone terribly wrong on the HD consoles. Do you really believe that the growth we have seen so far this gen could be sustained by consoles who's sales are anemic, even when boosted by killer apps? Nintendo is the primary driver of industry growth. At the same time, Sony and MS are facing a crisis (hence the meltdowns). If Nintendo had not released the Wii and DS, it is very likely that the industry would be in a downward trend. How anyone can argue otherwise after this month's NPD, is beyond me.

The recession is a factor. I know there are some in the industry want to steadfastly believe the games industry is immune, citing exploding gaming sales, but those data includes Wii and the DS, which undoubtedly is benefiting handsomely from their price/value propositions.

Secondly, a lot of the problem with gen is that Microsoft has basically created a class of welfare gamers as well as developers and industry politicos who get to play and make games that would otherwise not be made courtesy of Microsoft and Sony's massive bankrolls. The naiveté to believe that this would somehow be sustainable for a generation, let alone sustainable strategically once a winner is declared is ludicrous. But what it does create are unrealistic expectations as to the kind of software that should be released, the budgets required and the scale and pricing of these games relative to their expected sales.
 
Tobor said:
This is not the case for the majority of consumers. You guys can argue perception all day, but perception is sometimes reality.


And sometimes it's not. The 360 offers a comparably better library of games (more and of averagely higher quality), more multimedia features + hd tv use and of course more expensive parts than the Wii does. This i think is an reality, never mind if it matters or not to me or the public or if it is what the public wants.

Note: I write for the press, own all 3 systems and i've been a long time Nintendo fan so there is no agenda behind my suggestions.
 

Zerachiel

Member
soldat7 said:
Take away Mario, Zelda, and Metroid and the Wii lineup is....rather sub-par.

True. I think the main problem with it is that they've got all their eggs in one basket. If you don't like CoD4, chances are you won;t like Bioshock, Halo, etc. OTOH, it's pretty easy to dislike Zelda and enjoy Mario and Metroid, like I do.

Odysseus said:
take away intelligence and we have your posts

It's a fair point, IMO.

I'll admit that "shits all over" is a bit hyperbolic, but it's NPD, live a little :D Then again, I think the Wii has the best lineup of any system, on the basis almost of SSBB alone.
 

Deku

Banned
Annoying Old Party Man said:
And sometimes it's not. The 360 offers a comparably better library of games (more and of averagely higher quality), more multimedia features + hd tv use and of course more expensive parts than the Wii does. This i think is an reality, never mind if it matters or not to me or the public or if it is what the public wants.

Note: I write for the press, own all 3 systems and i've been a long time Nintendo fan so there is no agenda behind my suggestions.

All in the eye of the beholder. The Wii has a lot of problems, including its library. But it is apparent that isn't holding it back.

I want to say however, that since gaming is substitutable with other forms of entertainment it is also true then that gaming platforms (handheld, PC, consoles, mobile) are substitutes because I can freely choose where to spend my gaming dollars on. And this generation most of it have gone into portables.

360 does not to me offer a better library than say the DS, which is outclasses 'technologically' by a factor of thousands.

And you know what, I get to play these long dead genres, niche genres and new games that I actually care about without massive money hats from Nintendo and at half the price of a next-gen or even a Wii title which allows me to buy and take risks as a consumer on marginal titles. Developers actually go out of their way to make them. From a creative new ideas standpoint, the DS is far far ahead of the consoles.

I reject the '360 is the leading choice for games or anything kind of statement like it which is bandied about here. And if people want to make that claim, it needs to come with a disclaimer as to the scope the statement can apply.
 

Tobor

Member
Annoying Old Party Man said:
And sometimes it's not. The 360 offers a comparably better library of games (more and of averagely higher quality), more multimedia features + hd tv use and of course more expensive parts than the Wii does. This i think is an reality, never mind if it matters or not to me or the public or if it is what the public wants.

Note: I write for the press, own all 3 systems and i've been a long time Nintendo fan so there is no agenda behind my suggestions.

And again, a "better" library is completely subjective. Better for whom? It's clear that at this point, a library that doesn't contain Wii Sports is inadequate to the consumer at large.

I'm not speaking from any personal bias either, I paused GTA4 to respond to your comment.
 
Deku said:
All in the eye of the beholder. The Wii has a lot of problems, including its library. But it is apparent that isn't holding it back.

I want to say however, that since gaming is substitutable with other forms of entertainment it is also true then that gaming platforms (handheld, PC, consoles, mobile) are substitutes because I can freely choose where to spend my gaming dollars on. And this generation most of it have gone into portables.

360 does not to me offer a better library than say the DS, which is outclasses 'technologically' by a factor of thousands.

And you know what, I get to play these long dead genres, niche genres and new games that I actually care about without massive money hats from Nintendo and at half the price of a next-gen or even a Wii title which allows me to buy and take risks as a consumer on marginal titles. Developers actually go out of their way to make them. From a creative new ideas standpoint, the DS is far far ahead of the consoles.

I reject the '360 is the leading choice for games or anything kind of statement like it which is bandied about here. And if people want to make that claim, it needs to come with a disclaimer as to the scope the statement can apply.

The bolded is very true. But so many developers are missing the Wii boat right now. Its my impression, however, that the independent developers are going to wreak havoc on the EAs of the world soon, with serious, deep, single player experiences on Wii that rip the other crappy entries to shreds.
 

Struct09

Member
TheKingsCrown said:
The bolded is very true. But so many developers are missing the Wii boat right now. Its my impression, however, that the independent developers are going to wreak havoc on the EAs of the world soon, with serious, deep, single player experiences on Wii that rip the other crappy entries to shreds.

To be fair to EA, they're on the right track with games like Boom Blox. And I really hope that game is successful.
 
Struct09 said:
To be fair to EA, they're on the right track with games like Boom Blox. And I really hope that game is successful.

Have there been any ads for it? I haven't seen it anywhere, not even on the Nintendo channel. If it weren't for GAF I wouldn't know that it exists.
 

Struct09

Member
Saint Gregory said:
Have there been any ads for it? I haven't seen it anywhere, not even on the Nintendo channel. If it weren't for GAF I wouldn't know that it exists.

Sadly, I haven't seen any ads either :-/
 
Struct09 said:
To be fair to EA, they're on the right track with games like Boom Blox. And I really hope that game is successful.
Yeah, I didn't mean to single out EA. However, they are included. There is a PERFECT market on the Wii for games like Resident Evil 5, for example. But NO ONE. Literally NO ONE has released a flagship title of that type yet. How can they ignore the market which is obviously obviously there?

EDIT: Let me be specific. Let's take Resident Evil 5. If Capcom found a way to graphically get that game on Wii, it would, guaranteed, sell 1.5 million probably. With the amazing pointer controls of 4, it has the potential to sell upwards of 6 million across all territories. If I were Capcom, I don't care what I have to do, I would do everything possible to get 5 on Wii, even if I have to build a new engine for it. The profitability of that new engine would be ridiculous.

And this is just something like Resident Evil 5. If someone made a thoughtful, new IP on Wii like Uncharted for example, it really would have explosive potential because THERE ARE NO GAMES of this type yet on the Wii and the market is hungry for it.
 

RBH

Member
Saint Gregory said:
Have there been any ads for it? I haven't seen it anywhere, not even on the Nintendo channel. If it weren't for GAF I wouldn't know that it exists.
There were some Boom Blox ads on Nickelodeon the other day.

I was watching Spongebob. :)
 

Sule

Member
donny2112 said:
Would it be too much work to make this chart for US only? Pantherlotus(?) made one when he made an interesting post about the 3rd party situation on Wii and why there is a difference in 3rd party support from western and Japanese developers. Or rather, willingness to support the Wii. The Wii was expanding it's lead in Japan but ps360 were/are still ahead in the US.
 
JavyOO7 said:
Cry me a fucking river.

Sold out? How? By being smart? Then shit I'm surprised not every single company out there hasn't done what Nintendo has done yet.

All Nintendo has done is create games for two specific markets. The hard core market where they release the Mario's and Zelda's and Donkey Kong's and the casual market where they released Nintendogs, Brain Training, Animal Crossing and etc. And the casual market, the same market which was the reason why the NES/SNES/PS1/PS2/GB/GBC and the DS and Wii now have on a strangle hold is why the former and latter consoles have done so well. The hardcore market is a small market and is no where near the size of the casual market. At first I was just like you, spouting off how Nintendo had 'sold out' the hardcore and had focused on the casuals. But then I realized the brilliance of their plan. Those same casuals, you know, the same folk you hate for some stupid reason, is the reason why the Animal Crossings and Nintendogs of the world have sold so well. Its why the Twilight Princess and Mario Galaxy of the world have done so well. You think 5 million hardcore players in Japan bought NSMB? My fucking ass they did. The hardcore were plenty for those titles and many others but the juggernaut of the beast is that the casual gamer that Nintendo has been furiously targeting all of this time have decided: "Well you know what, I don't want a PSP or anything else. I like Brain Training but I want some thing else... oh snap, Mario!!" And then the domino effect came. And here we are today.

I have always wanted ever since the SNES came and went was a console where I could control the game through motion. I remember days on end playing Ken Griffey on the SNES wishing I could swing the bat on my own without pressing a button. A decade and a half later that idea came true. I'm sorry to say this, but THIS is where gaming is heading next. And you feel this won't evolve any further? Its always been GRAPHICS GRAPHICS GRAPHICS. That's fucking fantastic! I'm a graphic whore myself! Do I wish Mario Galaxy could push millions of polygons more and look fucking snazzy on a 1080P television with a 120 frame rate? Basically looking like the next toy story? Absolutely! Its not like I'll suck off of Nintendo's teat and tell myself they are great and they are perfect. They are far from it. Their online needs help and they are behind in features by an entire generation, the Wii is basically a souped up Game Cube, their Virtual Console titles need to drop by 3 bucks for each console... but guess what. All those negatives CANNOT take away the positives that the Wii has for ME and the other 20 plus million assholes who bought the Wii. I get tired of Mario Kart for the day? Okay, there's always Wii Sports. But OH! You say "Lawl, Wii Sports? You aren't hardcore for shit!" I'm not, am I? Well piss off. I'm probably more hardcore than you for fucks sakes. Wii Sports is no doubt a shallow experience that could be improved on in years to come, but guess what, once again the positives for ME outweighs the negatives that game has and that goes for every other Nintendo title released for the Wii.

I even dare say it that the Wii is just as much next gen than the PS3 and 360 other. So it doesn't have the main ingredient, GRAPHICS. Okay, so? The graphics for the Wii are no way perfect and Super Mario Galaxy would be considered a low end game for the 360, but its that controller input is what will ultimately push millions of more people to buy a Wii regardless of how crap it looks compared to Gears of War and Uncharted.

What is your fear? That your lovable hardcore games will go the way of the do do? Are you INSANE? And I thought borghe was insane for insisting that John Cena was actually a good wrestler. Guess what, for the ends of time there will always be developers that have titles that tailor to the hardcore and are THANKFUL that there are other casual gamers out there who want to try out the next sequel in Uncharted or Gears of War or whatever. So why are you so worried? Oh right, because this constant need of GRAPHICS and HIGH DEFINITION is what fuels you. And having that jRPG that goes on for 80 hours with a storyline about Cloud fending off Sephiroth with a BIG ASS SWORD and exploring or having some bald spaced marine fending off 500 enemies without getting hurt once like a scene from Ninja Scroll... because that's fine! That's fantastic I love that shit. But you know what I also love? Immersing myself in a video game by controlling personally what goes on in the game. And the Wii has offered that to me. Everyone in this board hated Elebits for some reason but its actually my second favorite game because holy shit its fucking awesome playing with the floaty physics of that game. Am I not hardcore enough for you? Do you want me to play Contra 5 on the 360 for you to prove you my worth? Please.

Listen. This industry (just like any other industry I'm sure) is a dog eat dog industry. Only the toughest survive. Nintendo years back thought "oh fuck we are done with". So what did they do? Change their strategies and look where they are now? But they sold out you say! So I'm assuming Mario Kart, Mario Galaxy, Zelda and all the other Nintendo shit is old stuff and you want to play fucking Call of Duty because its such a magnificent new concept of a game and oh my god look how many ways you can ass rape that solder HIYAHHHH!

My un important and useless prediction of the day is simple: motion controllers are the future. Developers of all walks of life are going to have to change their game design concepts completely to accommodate for an ever growing market of people wanting to inter act with a game... and is that so bad? Is that so bad that your MOTHER or FATHER want to game now as well? So what if they don't game the shit that you play? Isn't not whats more important is that they are enjoying the same hobby that years back probably they looked at you like you just gave them a hitler salute and laughed at your face for hours on end? Whats so bad about a new market (or rather, an ever existing market multiplied times fifty) that wants to play video games? Is that so bad? Because guess what, if Rock star one day decides to release I AM A FUCKING NON GAME that has the best motion controlling ever and out sells GRAND THEFT AUTO 4: HERE WE GO AGAIN and it sells pretty damn well in its own right... is that going to kill you? Because if it does, maybe its time for you to take a step back and not take video games too seriously. Or maybe you should be subjected to having Mike Tenay and Don West scream at your fucking television every 5 seconds.

This talk of 'real' consoles makes me laugh too damn hard. Give me a fucking break. You aren't that hard core, you are just a hardly core. Just stand back and realize whats going on in the industry right now will benefit the I AM A FUCKING NON GAMER market and the I AM A FUCKING HARDCORE GAMER market will benefit from this as well. But your Halo 3 mountain dew filled rage won't let you see that. Hopefully it does.

Holy shit at this post. I mostly agree on your the first part. But let me say that I LOLED so much reading your post. And not because I disagree, but because you're so right about many points. :lol
 

Hcoregamer00

The 'H' stands for hentai.
TheKingsCrown said:
Yeah, I didn't mean to single out EA. However, they are included. There is a PERFECT market on the Wii for games like Resident Evil 5, for example. But NO ONE. Literally NO ONE has released a flagship title of that type yet. How can they ignore the market which is obviously obviously there?

EDIT: Let me be specific. Let's take Resident Evil 5. If Capcom found a way to graphically get that game on Wii, it would, guaranteed, sell 1.5 million probably. With the amazing pointer controls of 4, it has the potential to sell upwards of 6 million across all territories. If I were Capcom, I don't care what I have to do, I would do everything possible to get 5 on Wii, even if I have to build a new engine for it. The profitability of that new engine would be ridiculous.

And this is just something like Resident Evil 5. If someone made a thoughtful, new IP on Wii like Uncharted for example, it really would have explosive potential because THERE ARE NO GAMES of this type yet on the Wii and the market is hungry for it.

Forget that, Resident Evil 5 should stay on the consoles.

What the Wii needs is mature games made from the ground up to take advantage of the console. I was playing Mario Kart Wii for a while yesterday and I couldn't help but marvel at some of the stages in the game, and this is a person whose only home console is a PS3 hooked up to an HDTV.

When done right the Wii can impress graphically, and nothing would make me happier than Capcom making a game from the ground up for the Wii to take advantage of it.

Remake Dino Crisis or Resident Evil 2 with sky high production values and market it to high heaven, I would buy a Wii in a heartbeat with that kind of game.
 

justchris

Member
Annoying Old Party Man said:
The Gamecube was in some way a machine born in the "middle of the road", between Nintendo's old philosophy and the new, re-emerging Nintendo.

Yes, the machine was built to compete with the existing machines, but from the status quo of the last three generations (NES=powerful home "computer"), Super NES (MODE 7, Most powerful machine), N64 (no need to even go there), we went to Gamecube, which essentially had nothing to boast technically wise against PS2. I remember that the press tried to hold on from something being used to boast about the power of the new nintendo machine, and we ended up with a motto that reminded us that "...it's actually 25% more powerfull than PS2!".

I don't see that at all. I see the GCN as being Nintendo's next step up, more of the same. And I see them realizing, midway through the course that that wasn't working. It was their decision that more of the same, only more powerful, wasn't working for them, that caused them to very nearly abandon the cube halfway through it's life. Around the time the DS released 1st party games for the GCN tapered off seriously. I think their course correction began sometime during the GCN's life, not before it.

One last comment, the success of the Wii right now seems more like a matter of marketing and proper managerial decisions than anything else. For a machine that promised to change gaming forever, Wii has only proven that it can offer something different. Yes, it is mass market, but does it really offer a better gaming experience than it's competitors?

Um, yes, it does. The problem here is your definition of 'better'.

Video Games are an entertainment industry, not a technology industry, no matter how important technology is to them. When introducing new technology on a mass market entertainment device, it has to be one of the following 3 things:

1) More interesting
2) More useful
3) More intuitive

Take VHS -> DVD. Multiple formats attempted to replace VHS over the years, but while they were all clearly superior to VHS, they offered nothing truly interesting, useful, or more intuitive than VHS. Now, take DVD, which offers not only greater storage, but chapter skip, no need to rewind and is generally easier and less messy than VHS. But you ever wonder why the controls for the DVD are virtually identical to VHS controls? It's because VHS controls were so fantastically intuitive, that attempting to rewrite the whole thing would have been asking for failure. Instead, they expanded the existing interface to adopt the added features, and focused on what DVD really offered, greater utility than VHS, and something generally more interesting (which is why special features are so prevalent on DVDs, it's a primary selling point of the advance in technology).

Fast forward to Blu-ray, what does Blu-ray offer over DVD? It's not more interesting, it doesn't really offer anything new, it's not more useful as it has all the same features and tools as DVD, and it's not more intuitive, it's using the same control interface we've been using for years. All it offers is greater space and greater quality, and if greater quality were enough to convince the mass market to upgrade, we'd all have been using laserdiscs years ago.

The Wii hits all 3 of these points. It is more interesting than what the PS3/360 have to offer because of the simple fact that it is different. When the same status quo has existed for 10-12 years (3d gaming of the PS1-PS2 generations) anything that is completely unlike the status quo is automatically more interesting, because it is different. It doesn't have to be better, that's not what people care about, all they care about is something that can grab their attention.

It is more useful. The Wii has a controller that allows you to do things the PS3/360 can't really emulate, and it also perfectly accepts their control schemes as well. It has the highest level of usability of all 3 consoles because it offers the most options.

It is more intuitive. Aside from the simple fact of the Wiimote itself, which mimics tools and technology the general public is already used to, the interface of the Wii menu itself is extremely focused on ease of use and transparency, and more than that, it uses a metaphor with which we're all already familiar, that of channels on a television.

When making tech for the mass market, the better tech is almost never the tech that wins out. The tech that is the most usable, easiest to learn, and most different wins. And that's what the Wii offers. So yes, by those 3 criteria, the Wii does offer a better gaming experience, from the perspective of the general public.

Personally, i would say that it's dynamic, new gameplay propositions that the controller offers are "neutralized" by it's technical shortcomings in many fields (not just raw power).

It's new gameplay propositions are not neutralized by it's technical shortcomings. They're completely irrespective of them. The only weakness the Wii has in the gameplay department is it's newness, the fact that people just do not know how to make games to use the versatility and power it does offer, because developers are not used to thinking in that fashion. Wii controls are not a matter of tech, the Wiimote is a hell of a lot more technologically advanced than people give it credit for, and it does a lot of things that devs never use, because there's no apparent gameplay advantage to those things. But just because it's not apparent doesn't mean it isn't there. Only time will tell what all the Wiimote has to offer, but already it's offering things that people were not finding in the previous generation, and are not finding on other consoles in this generation, and that interests people and excites them.

I'm not denying that marketing is a major, major part of it all. Marketing always plays it's part. But the Wii hits all the necessary points to market entertainment technology. The PS3 hits only one, and the 360 hits none.
 
Hcoregamer00 said:
Forget that, Resident Evil 5 should stay on the consoles.

What the Wii needs is mature games made from the ground up to take advantage of the console. I was playing Mario Kart Wii for a while yesterday and I couldn't help but marvel at some of the stages in the game, and this is a person whose only home console is a PS3 hooked up to an HDTV.

When done right the Wii can impress graphically, and nothing would make me happier than Capcom making a game from the ground up for the Wii to take advantage of it.

Remake Dino Crisis or Resident Evil 2 with sky high production values and market it to high heaven, I would buy a Wii in a heartbeat with that kind of game.


I guess the point of my post was that I agree with you. Maybe they CAN'T do Resident Evil 5. IF that's the case, make a new resident evil in the main series from the ground up for it. The market has clearly grown and both entries are going to do amazingly well, with the potential for the Wii one to destroy everything else. Its just common business sense. But these businesses, being as big as they are, can't make these kinds of smart decisions anymore. And that's why it is my prediction that independent developers are going to RAPE other developers on the Wii.

Don't you guys think the evidence is already there?
 

justchris

Member
Struct09 said:
To be fair to EA, they're on the right track with games like Boom Blox. And I really hope that game is successful.

Sorry to double post, but I just saw an ad during Saturday Morning cartoons, which is pretty well positioned as far as tv ads go I think. That game is going to be a massive seller to kids. I mean, what kid doesn't like blowing shit up?
 

Hcoregamer00

The 'H' stands for hentai.
TheKingsCrown said:
I guess the point of my post was that I agree with you. Maybe they CAN'T do Resident Evil 5. IF that's the case, make a new resident evil in the main series from the ground up for it. The market has clearly grown and both entries are going to do amazingly well, with the potential for the Wii one to destroy everything else. Its just common business sense. But these businesses, being as big as they are, can't make these kinds of smart decisions anymore. And that's why it is my prediction that independent developers are going to RAPE other developers on the Wii.

Don't you guys think the evidence is already there?

I agree with you completely, we cannot properly gauge what Wii sales of any "hardcore" genre would be like because no games released are shining examples. For example, if there was an RPG with the production values of Valkyria Chronicles, Tales of Vesperia, Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, or Mass Effect would it sell very well on the wii? The answer is that we don't know because there was no game with a budget that high released on the Nintendo Wii.

To assert that X or Y games cannot sell on the wii because it is a casual machine is illogical, because there is no precedence to compare it to.

On the other hand, the Wii market has shown that they do like mature and violent games, just look at the sales of Resident Evil 4, or No More Heroes. There is a market of people would buy a high production, high quality games that does not talk down to the audience. Yet, with this precedence, having high quality mature games is still a rarity. There is something wrong with this picture.

With that said, I do hope that there are more games from the ground up on the Wii that take advantage of this huge market, because it is a crying shame that they are being ignored.
 
justchris said:
I don't see that at all. I see the GCN as being Nintendo's next step up, more of the same. And I see them realizing, midway through the course that that wasn't working. It was their decision that more of the same, only more powerful, wasn't working for them, that caused them to very nearly abandon the cube halfway through it's life. Around the time the DS released 1st party games for the GCN tapered off seriously. I think their course correction began sometime during the GCN's life, not before it.

When making tech for the mass market, the better tech is almost never the tech that wins out. The tech that is the most usable, easiest to learn, and most different wins. And that's what the Wii offers. So yes, by those 3 criteria, the Wii does offer a better gaming experience, from the perspective of the general public.

Well, i'm not sure when the turning point started, i'm sure though that there was a lot of conflict and thought inside Nintendo at the time of Gamecube, and surely a time of change as well.

Also, what the general public views as "better" should never be the main criteria for judging a product.

The analogy with the ipod is somewhat relevant, i think. There are better products in the market in the same price range, but the public ignores it because it thinks the ipod is the "better" product, or because the public is satissfied with the ipod features as it is.


Like your analogy: Blu ray really offers a better experience than a DVD, but the general public has not adopted it due to many factors, from price to unfamiliarity to not being different enough, etc etc.

Personally, i think that the Wii is perhaps one of the few consoles - if not the only one in history after the Atari perhaps- that is a market leader while not being the relatively objectively better gaming platform (there isn't necessarily a "better" this time). PS2, PSONE, SNES, NES, they were all the systems with the features and overall support which elevated them to the preferable choice for all gamers, from the casual one to the hardcore. And i find this fascinating, that Nintendo managed to turn the market upside down and shoot itself to the very top while doing exactly the same it has done over the last three generations , pushing unique interfaces and relying solely and exclusively to it's own products to sell their systems.
 
PS3 deserves the failure Blu-Ray trojan horse + weak line up of games of exclusive. 360 has only dropped $50 in over 2+ years with MS nickel and diming you for everything they can from a $100 wi-fi adapter to $50 p2p online service plus it's the most defective console in god damn history.

No wonder they get steamrolled by the Wii, and god damn the Wii still sucks will it ever get a third party game that worth a damn? 12 digit friend codes?

If not for PC gaming I'd go all suicidal and bulemic, what a terrible gen.
 

Asherdude

Member
Soka said:
Half the fun is watching people cry about the Wii. "DER IS NO GUD GAMES BUT IT SELZ SO MUCH PEEPUL R STEWPID!"

It's delicious.
It's almost scary. Some are acting like they've been backed into a corner with no escape. You know, some of these people would jump off of buildings if their console got discontinued early because it lost out to the Wii.

"Sorry kid, you'll going to have to play Wii Sports & Cooking Mama from now on."

"Noooo!!!!!" *jumps to their death*
 

Agent Icebeezy

Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Hwang Seong-Gyeong said:
PS3 deserves the failure Blu-Ray trojan horse + weak line up of games of exclusive. 360 has only dropped $50 in over 2+ years with MS nickel and diming you for everything they can from a $100 wi-fi adapter to $50 p2p online service plus it's the most defective console in god damn history.

No wonder they get steamrolled by the Wii, and god damn the Wii still sucks will it ever get a third party game that worth a damn? 12 digit friend codes?

If not for PC gaming I'd go all suicidal and bulemic, what a terrible gen.

Go out and buy Boom Blox. I did, it's a fun quality 3rd party game.
 

Scrubking

Member
Struct09 said:
To be fair to EA, they're on the right track with games like Boom Blox. And I really hope that game is successful.

If by "on the right track" you mean more kiddie, party games then hell no. I know GAF is in love with that game, but it's not what the Wii needs right now. The Wii has enough dumbed down family friendly games thank you very much.

And considering the fact that EA opened two casual gaming divisions just for the Wii I wouldn't expect them to get on the right track anytime soon since their obvious intent is to continue making casual shit for the Wii while giving the other guys the real games.
 
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