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Official April 2008 NPD thread of massive disappointment if you're not Nintendo
- Thread starter sonycowboy
- Start date
Well as I've said many times, the mythical one SKU $300 (at launch-- in 2006) HD/SD console that wasn't made would have absolutely slaughtered all entrants.
We hear people go on and on about price. It's not the price. X360 Arcade is barely more than a Wii, it's the multiple SKUs and the absolute raping of consumers on every front that's bogging them down.
I don't claim to be a wise sage with all the answers, but the console price analysis is a bit like people on the Titanic discussing whether having more buckets would help save the ship from sinking.
Theoretically, yes, but in practice there are more significant moving parts that are not only not being addressed but are absolutely continuing to get worse.
We hear people go on and on about price. It's not the price. X360 Arcade is barely more than a Wii, it's the multiple SKUs and the absolute raping of consumers on every front that's bogging them down.
I don't claim to be a wise sage with all the answers, but the console price analysis is a bit like people on the Titanic discussing whether having more buckets would help save the ship from sinking.
Theoretically, yes, but in practice there are more significant moving parts that are not only not being addressed but are absolutely continuing to get worse.
Rancid Mildew said:
Why did anyone want a watered down port of RE4 on the PS2 last generation? The market leader last generation was inferior tech, but still had almost every third-party, non-moneyhatted game ported to it. Why is it so outrageous to expect something similar this generation?
titiklabingapat
Member
AI in videogames is a misnomer anyway.
HK-47 said:
I have yet to see objective evidence that A.I. or physics seen in PS3 or 360 titles could not be realized on the Wii. They seem like bullet points that certain types of individuals like to reference. To be honest, I can't remember the last time A.I. or physics have actually impressed me, even running a top of the line gaming PC (A.I. in particular).
A good portion of that tech gap is to run the game at HD resolutions with a good framerate.
Would it be easy to downgrade PS3/360 games to the Wii? No.
Would it be worth the effort to try? That's the bigger question. Userbase says "yes." Stereotype says "no." It should really be decided on a game-by-game basis, but to give a blanket answer of "no" is just plain stupid from a financial standpoint.
Would it be easy to downgrade PS3/360 games to the Wii? No.
Would it be worth the effort to try? That's the bigger question. Userbase says "yes." Stereotype says "no." It should really be decided on a game-by-game basis, but to give a blanket answer of "no" is just plain stupid from a financial standpoint.
Mike Works
Member
completely disagreeMrNyarlathotep said:
At the same time..
If Rockstar took the time, budget and resources to make a GTA-game on the Wii.. it will look good. Obviously not as great as the "HD versions"..but it's all in their hands..they are more than capable to do it.
Of course, the easier route is just porting San Andreas (or it's engine) and adding waggle..and call it a day..
Which has been a problem with many developers outthere..
They have no problem in investing..$50-$100 million in a PS3/360 game..yet when it comes to invest like half the costs in making a similiar game on Wii, "it's a risk..hell no we're going to risk our company!!!!"
If Rockstar took the time, budget and resources to make a GTA-game on the Wii.. it will look good. Obviously not as great as the "HD versions"..but it's all in their hands..they are more than capable to do it.
Of course, the easier route is just porting San Andreas (or it's engine) and adding waggle..and call it a day..
Which has been a problem with many developers outthere..
They have no problem in investing..$50-$100 million in a PS3/360 game..yet when it comes to invest like half the costs in making a similiar game on Wii, "it's a risk..hell no we're going to risk our company!!!!"
HK-47 said:
That certainly might give the HD systems more of a leg to stand on. For me, graphics are nice, but they really are only one aspect of overall presentation. Moreover, I find that music and sound effects immerse me far more than graphics do. High end graphics really are something only an enthusiast can appreciate and these sales are proving it.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
I see what HK-47 is saying and I agreee with him.
One of the main reasons I want the Wii to be successful is so we can se developers create new and different gameplay experiences from what we're seeing now, not just the same things with waggle involved. This is part of the reason why I understand why 3rd party developers haven't been quick on the uptake for Wii: last gen efforts and mentality aren't going to make a blockbuster Wii game, and by extension, prettier graphics and waggle won't either. We shouldn't be crying for GTA IV Wii, we should be calling for something completely new and different, something befitting of the Wii.
This isn't to say that we can't look to what's already been done to move forward; part of the reason I love Godfather was because it took a last-gen idea and added a great gameplay mechanic to it. However, if I were to clamor for a sequel (which I am) I want them to make the effort with the Wii in mind instead of taking an existing product and waggling it up again. That only works so many times.
In a way, it's just like when the 360 first debuted; it's first titles were warmed over last gen efforts that were good at the time, but when devs got time with the system we were starting to see the 360's strengths showcased. Wii, in principle, should be no different.
One of the main reasons I want the Wii to be successful is so we can se developers create new and different gameplay experiences from what we're seeing now, not just the same things with waggle involved. This is part of the reason why I understand why 3rd party developers haven't been quick on the uptake for Wii: last gen efforts and mentality aren't going to make a blockbuster Wii game, and by extension, prettier graphics and waggle won't either. We shouldn't be crying for GTA IV Wii, we should be calling for something completely new and different, something befitting of the Wii.
This isn't to say that we can't look to what's already been done to move forward; part of the reason I love Godfather was because it took a last-gen idea and added a great gameplay mechanic to it. However, if I were to clamor for a sequel (which I am) I want them to make the effort with the Wii in mind instead of taking an existing product and waggling it up again. That only works so many times.
In a way, it's just like when the 360 first debuted; it's first titles were warmed over last gen efforts that were good at the time, but when devs got time with the system we were starting to see the 360's strengths showcased. Wii, in principle, should be no different.
Christopher
Member
What does Nintendo have left that it hasn't released yet like it usually does? We got basically everything thus far sans perhaps a Kirby and Donkey Kong main line platform game? I really think after they release all their big guns, and after I get MGS:4 I'm done with games...this gen has just really turned me off.
HK-47 said:
I have yet to see where those things have done much for the actual gameplay. AI in itself in its current form doesn't need a lot of processing power anyway.
The other conventions as someone mentioned can easily be done on the Wii. The Wii loses the graphics battle, but can compete due to good controls.
future_pinoy
Member
omg rite said:
:lol :lol :lol
titiklabingapat
Member
Super Mario Galaxy 2, Twilight Princess Redux, Super Smash Bros Brawl Online, Maio Kart Wii 2 just to name a few.Christopher said:
Rocksteady33
Junior Member
Christopher said:
Animal Crossing will be huge. The second Zelda should be nice. The Wii ___ series will continue. Mario Golf? Mario Tennis? Pokemon Battle Revolution 2 should pop up. Kid Iracus is pretty much guaranteed. Kirby platformer + Kirby spin-off is likely. Donkey Kong platformer or music game in vein of the GameCube games is also pretty much a given. More Fire Emblem? I'm sure they haven't forgotten the Pikmin series. Mario Party 9 and 10 will sell by the boat loads. I could see another Wario Ware, or something else to do with Wario coming out the pipeline too.
Nintendo has a lot in their vault.
DeaconKnowledge said:
I don't follow the portable market, but how long did it take devs to start developing unique titles for the DS? I hope to see a similar turn for the Wii, with developers concentrating on the unique input method and offering games like Boom Blox, rather than the standard shoe-horning of waggle onto old ideas which don't benefit from it.
titiklabingapat
Member
Also, didn't Miyamoto say he has a new IP he's working on that isn't a Wii Series game?
Rocksteady33
Junior Member
Cheez-It said:
First year was atrocious really even from Nintendo. It wasn't until a full year later that we saw Mario Kart DS, Animal Crossing, Castlevania, Nintendogs and Advance Wars that Nintendo and just ONE developer to put some effort into the system. I'd say worthwhile purchases from third parties didn't start coming at a regular basis until a year and a half or two years.
That's a fanboy question for fanboys, and no I don't care. I wouldn't care if Mario Galaxy was ported to the PS3.
What exactly are these "new" experiences that the Wii is supposed to get? Why do these new experiences prevent the Wii from also having the old ones? Is the Wii not supposed to get a GTA Wii because it's only for "new experiences"?
Considering 3rd parties are hardly giving the Wii ANY experiences I'll take any quality games I can get. And if you know what these "new experiences" are do all Wii gamers a favor and inform all the 3rd parties because apparently they don't have a clue.
It took about 18 months for the tide of third party DS games to start rolling in (beyond the obvious continuations of GBA franchises like Castlevania). That's probably a good yardstick for measuring third party releases on Wii, starting from some arbitrary point last year when the critical mass of industry opinion shifted and it became obvious to "everyone" that Wii was an irresistible force. There's still the point that Wii is a console: it may be less expensive and time intensive to develop assets for it than the HD consoles but it is, y'know, more powerful and demanding than DS at least.Cheez-It said:
I think we're still in the time frame when lackluster third party support can be explained by all the decision-makers being caught completely off-guard. There's plenty of time left for the situation to shift. If things still look this way this time next year- gigantic Wii hardware sales and miniscule third party investment- it will be time to riot or panic or celebrate or whatever your pleasure.
Doesn't matter to me if NMH gets ported. I gave up complaining about that sort of thing a long time ago.
The one thing I wanted when the Wii was officially announced was different ways to experience old genres. I was never a fan of sandbox games until the Wii came out. IR controls for shooting and such just makes those games much better for me. So I would try out GTA on the Wii if Rockstar decides to handle it the same way EA handled The Godfather, or Sierra handled Scarface. Bully was okay, but it really didn't feel that fresh from a controls perspective. A good adventure game with Wii controls would rock as would an abundance of FPS games.
That said, I would be okay with more companies experimenting with games, but the problem I have with that is they're experimenting with kids games and puzzle games. Where are the RPGs with interesting mechanics? What about story driven games? I'm just getting the feeling that developers just don't know what to do with the control scheme, or they can't get out of the current mode of thinking. It's sad that our industry is built on creativity, yet many of the creative minds either have no ideas, or are afraid to try. In my opinion, now is the time to experiment, especially since we can almost guarantee next generation will have motion controls, so it's best to try now while development costs are a bit lower.
The one thing I wanted when the Wii was officially announced was different ways to experience old genres. I was never a fan of sandbox games until the Wii came out. IR controls for shooting and such just makes those games much better for me. So I would try out GTA on the Wii if Rockstar decides to handle it the same way EA handled The Godfather, or Sierra handled Scarface. Bully was okay, but it really didn't feel that fresh from a controls perspective. A good adventure game with Wii controls would rock as would an abundance of FPS games.
That said, I would be okay with more companies experimenting with games, but the problem I have with that is they're experimenting with kids games and puzzle games. Where are the RPGs with interesting mechanics? What about story driven games? I'm just getting the feeling that developers just don't know what to do with the control scheme, or they can't get out of the current mode of thinking. It's sad that our industry is built on creativity, yet many of the creative minds either have no ideas, or are afraid to try. In my opinion, now is the time to experiment, especially since we can almost guarantee next generation will have motion controls, so it's best to try now while development costs are a bit lower.
Christopher said:
What about Sonic Unleashed? You liked Sonic 06 but you're done with games after MGS4?
On the Nintendo side, there's Pikmin, AC, and Kid Icarus, plus whatever Wii _____ title they come up with next (guessing Wii Music is going to be the big casual game at E3).
But there's other stuff outside of Nintendo that looks great too. Spore, Starcraft 2, Bangaio Spirits, BK:N&B, LBP, Valkyria Chronicles, Disgaea 3 to name a few.
Mike Works
Member
Animal Crossing, Pikmin, Wave Race, Star Fox, Kirby, Donkey Kong, F-ZeroChristopher said:
then there are new DS IP's like Nintendogs, [blank] Training, etc that they can take advantage of
and then there are the brand new IP's (???) or resurrected oldschool ones (Kid Icarus) which we have yet to hear about
Link
The Autumn Wind
God, you're dumb.WrikaWrek said:I was proven right.
Everyone with only a Wii from the main consoles(this gen, stupid term i know, encompasses 360/Ps3/Wii) also plays on other platforms, be it PC, portables, or last gen gaming systems.
And when i made that statement i made it with the opinion that the Wii doesn't have enough sand in it's truck to satisfy the "hardcore" gamer, the gamer you see at GAF.
I'm sure that with time it will, but i have a Wii, and i don't see me having my gaming needs fulfilled if i only owned a Wii as a gaming platform.
But people went ahead and called me dumb while at the same time proving my point
And it wasn't an attack on the system people. No need to take it so personally.
open_mouth_
insert_foot_
If 360 launched with a 4 gig built-in flash drive or a sd card included like the Wii with one SKU at $349 even, they'd be in much better shape than they are today in so many aspects. They would've sold alot of add on hard-drives to those who wanted extra space, and they would've had that 4 gigs on every console so devs could've used about 1-2 gigs as a swap drive sort of thing for game loading and what not. It would've been priced down to $249 by now and it would've been moving like crazy compared to the $400-$500 PS3 IMO.
live and learn i guess.
live and learn i guess.
is this trying to suggest that HD gamers only play a 360 or a Ps3 and absolutely nothing else? If they are dedicated gamers, this is pretty damned false.WrikaWrek said:I was proven right.
Everyone with only a Wii from the main consoles(this gen, stupid term i know, encompasses 360/Ps3/Wii) also plays on other platforms, be it PC, portables, or last gen gaming systems.
And when i made that statement i made it with the opinion that the Wii doesn't have enough sand in it's truck to satisfy the "hardcore" gamer, the gamer you see at GAF.
I'm sure that with time it will, but i have a Wii, and i don't see me having my gaming needs fulfilled if i only owned a Wii as a gaming platform.
But people went ahead and called me dumb while at the same time proving my point
And it wasn't an attack on the system people. No need to take it so personally.
2 Minutes Turkish
Banned
Deku said:
I pretty much agree with this.
But on the other hand, since MS seemed so hell bent on 'SKUstock', isn't it possible they could have built approx. 16GB or so of Flash memory into the console that was exclusively for developer use?
So 16GB that ONLY developers could see/have access to? Wouldn't this have solved the whole mandatory HDD issue while also allowing MS to go SKU crazy?
As it stands now, MS needs to get ALL Core/Arcade owners to register their consoles online, and MS needs to send a voucher with their serial number that they can then take into their local retailer and claim a HDD for say $20-$30.
This would make sure that almost anyone who cares enough has a HDD and devs can start to loosen the noose, so to speak, preventing them from getting the best out of the hardware.
Deku said:
Even the Wii? If no console before the Wii has sold as quickly, why would your example do this? I think it would do a hell of a lot better than the 360 and PS3 have done, but not the Wii. While I don't think the lowest price is even one of the leading factors in the Wii's success, I do think the extraordinary costs of the 360 and PS3 were major barriers.
norinrad21
Banned
WrikaWrek said:
Yep making the exact games with fancy graphics is something new.
Scrubking said:
You want GTA IV when what you should want is GTA Wii. I'll take the quality games on the correct platform if I cant get them and not bitch every time one goes to a system I dont have. I've seen a ton of Wii owners acting as if they are the kings of the world. No, Nintendo is and they've made a lot of stupid choices as well. What I'm really tired of is everyone going at each others throats I guess.
TwinIonEngines said:
Please dont mention Mario Kart. Mention Prime or Brawl but not Kart, they got the track design and online right (holy shit) but they made single player, battle mode and items worse. Also they did a poor job on the graphics for such a big franchise.
norinrad21
Banned
HK-47 said:
At this point in time, Nintendo stands alone once again and 3rd parties can choose to invest in the wii or not, thats up to them. When the decent games come along i will buy them and if they don't i still have my DS, PSP, PS2, Wii, Wiiware and VC. Its their loss not mine and neither is it Nintendo's loss either.
HK-47 said:
If they wanted to do an all out GTA Wii, great, but I think it would be far easier to start with ports of last-gen's games with a control overhaul. I just think it's kind of dumb for Take-Two to leave that much potential profit sitting on the table by not at least trying to bring last-gen's GTAs to the Wii audience. From the overall industry perspective, other companies who don't attempt to port/dual develop their PS360 games to the Wii are just asking to leave money on the table, too.
It's not an "either/or" but an "and" situation.
Edit:
As far as unique offerings, seeing what can be done with a ported/dual developed game could be a great starting point for eventually making a unique game on the system. "Baby steps."