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[Capndrake]

WII-KLY UPDATE: TWO WIIWARE GAMES AND ONE VIRTUAL CONSOLE GAME ADDED TO WII SHOP CHANNEL


May 19, 2008

Today begins a new phase for the Wii-kly Update. From now on, we'll have all the information about the arrival of both WiiWare™ and Virtual Console™ games. So basically you're getting access to the best games of the past and the coolest creations of the present. With this week's releases you can blast space-based enemies with your starfighter, fly the not-always-friendly skies or even corral some cute critters in the barnyard.

Nintendo adds new and classic games to the Wii Shop Channel at 9 a.m. Pacific time every Monday. Wii™ owners with a high-speed Internet connection can redeem Wii Points™ to download the games. Wii Points can be purchased in the Wii Shop Channel or at retail outlets. This week's new games are:

WiiWare

Critter Round-Up (Konami, 1-4 players, Rated E for Everyone - Comic Mischief, 1,000 Wii Points): The critters have escaped, and the barnyard is in chaos! It's up to you to quickly corral the animals in this puzzle-action challenge. You'll have to mend fences in a hurry to keep all the critters safe and satisfied. But the fun doesn't stop with the farmland; more than 50 challenging levels take you to several exotic locations, including the outback, the icy Arctic and more. There's even a series of minigames for when the critters get you down: Snowball Soccer, Predator Rampage, Chicken Catch and Fence Trap. Up to four players can compete or cooperate as the critters run wild. So roll up those sleeves and grab a friend-those critters won't catch themselves.

Star Soldier R (Hudson Entertainment, 1 player, Rated E for Everyone - Fantasy Violence, 800 Wii Points): Star Soldier R is a new kind of shooter where players aim for the best scores within a two- or five-minute time limit. Develop various scoring strategies, and pump out those points within the breakneck time frame. Assembled in record time to counter the advance of a powerful enemy, the mysterious Brain Forces, the "Caesar" starfighter takes off to fight for the very future of mankind. Shoot down countless enemies, upgrade your ship to the max with power-ups hidden throughout the levels and wage an all-out assault against the core of the enemy fortress. Combining the excitement of shoot-'em-ups with in-depth scoring strategies, this state-of-the-art competitive shooter will keep you coming back for more. Upload your best scores with Nintendo® Wi-Fi Connection, and pit your skills against the world's best fighter pilots from the comfort of your living room. Hone your skills and show the world who's boss.

Virtual Console

SKYKID™ (NES®, 1-2 players, Rated E for Everyone - Mild Cartoon Violence, 500 Wii Points): Red Baron, from the freedom- and peace-loving nation of birds, Bird Land, faces off in the skies with his rival Blue Max in this side-scrolling shooting game. Defeat the many enemies that await you as you complete your mission, using moves like the loop-the-loop to shoot down enemies from behind. Fly low to pick up bombs placed in the stage and drop them on command posts, warships or other designated targets to destroy them. Then land safely at base to proceed to the next mission. Beware of enemy fire, though-it will cause you to crash, unless you're able to recover by rapidly pressing the buttons. You can even play with a second person and fly simultaneously, sometimes helping each other and other times competing against each other. Prepare yourself and take to the skies, but make sure that the catchy background music (which became an instant classic when this game was originally released) doesn't distract you from your goal.

For more information about Wii, please visit wii.com.

 

[AugustDivision]

Chris strikes again.

2 WiiWare and 1 VC here on out makes sense, regardless if people want it or not.

 

[bumpkin]

WiiWare

Critter Round-Up (Konami, 1-4 players, Rated E for Everyone - Comic Mischief, 1,000 Wii Points)

Star Soldier R (Hudson Entertainment, 1 player, Rated E for Everyone - Fantasy Violence, 800 Wii Points)

No Dr. Mario, no sale.

 

[Yes Boss!]

Wiiware

Critter Round-Up (Konami, 1-4 players, Rated E for Everyone - Comic Mischief, 1,000 Wii Points)

Star Soldier R (Hudson Entertainment, 1 player, Rated E for Everyone - Fantasy Violence, 800 Wii Points)

Star Soldier R, one sale.

 

[Conrad Link]

Weird that theres no Dr. Mario.

 

[AniHawk]

Hudson's got the right idea.

10 bucks for Critter Round Up? No, fuck you, Konami.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

fuck you, Konami.

This is really all that needs to be said this gen.
Crap week btw.

 

[jarrod]

Is SSR based off the GC/PS2/PSP remake's engine? I do sort of wish they'd just included the whole game, even it was 1500 points or something. :/

 

[HUELEN10]

No Dr. Mario, no sale.

This.

I really do not want to sound impatient, but it better come out within 2 weeks.

 

[Talamius]

On the fence on Star Soldier. What does this have that the VC versions don't, besides leaderboards? No thanks to Critter and SkyKid.

 

[CaVaYeRo]

Star Soldier R, one sale.

you know it lasts 7 minutes, don't you?

 

[HUELEN10]

On the fence on Star Soldier. What does this have that the VC versions don't, besides leaderboards? No thanks to Critter and SkyKid.

A 2-5 minute max game with score modes only. Get Super Star Soldier instead if you haven't.

 

[Yes Boss!]

you know it lasts 7 minutes, don't you?

Absolutely. I'm also a PC-Engine nut and this is a nice homage to the classics.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

you know it lasts 7 minutes, don't you?

It's a score attack game, like Pac Man Championship edition (Actually, come to think of it, the two are eerily similar!)

There is no ending, there is no finite time you spend to play the game. The goal of the game is not to get to the end, but to get the highest score possible!

Critter round up looks fun, but definitely not 1000 points fun, should've been 600 points max!

 

[MoxManiac]

SKYKID??

Fuck you Scamtendo!

 

[Tim-E]

This.

I really do not want to sound impatient, but it better come out within 2 weeks.

Or else what? You'll cry about it on the internet until it does come out and buy it anyway?

 

[Shard]

So how long is JSnake banned for anyway?

 

[mollipen]

I can't imagine how frustrating SoR 2 would be to play with the 360 D-pad.

Use the analog stick, as it works perfectly fine for the game.

Good on MS for supporting retro gaming, but really they've accomplished nothing magical here.

The games are online, or have online leaderboards. That's HUGE for a lot of old games. I love Gauntlet, but there's really no point in just sitting down and playing it by myself. Having it online makes it actually worth owning. Or take a game like Galaga, which I've always loved, yet I get far more use out of because I can do score attack with my friends.

SKYKID??

Fuck you Scamtendo!

Uhm, Sky Kid is awesome, so I don't see the problem here.

 

[DaBargainHunta]

Seriously disappointing week, though I am somewhat contemplating Star Soldier R. Just don't know if it's worth it though. It seems really limited, and it's not like I don't have other VC shooters on my system already (specifically Gate of Thunder and Lords of Thunder).

Sky Kid? Fucking terrible. Talk about an irrelevant relic from the past that belongs buried under a mound of dust.

Really depressing if the trend is going to be 3 games a week split between VC and WW.

EDIT: Interesting comment from VC-Reviews:

Atlantis1982 19 May 2008, 13:43 GMT
One good thing came out of this; a Sunsoft game is released (Unless I missed one). Good sign for those waiting for Master Blaster

Sky Kid, of course, is a Namco game - but it was published by Sunsoft.

 

[Viewt]

Eh, it's possible, but would be a pain in the arse. Maybe I'll just convince him to buy the ethernet adapter and a 50 ft ethernet cable.

Just get him the Buffalo Wi-Fi Adapter. Plugs into your computer's USB slot and broadcasts a signal. Unfortunate thing about it is, it only works for your Wii and DS - doesn't act like a real wireless router.

Another possible option would come into play if he's got a laptop (probably unlikely since he doesn't have a wireless connection). You can turn a laptop into a Wi-Fi hotspot by fooling around with your settings.

 

[Capndrake]

So how long is JSnake banned for anyway?

9 more days.

 

[DaBargainHunta]

So how long is JSnake banned for anyway?

9 more days.

If you're asking in relation to his VC/WW PR, that's now a moot point. N, for some unknown reason, no longer wants the PR leaked ahead of time. God forbid they get free promotion, build-up, excitement, and extra sales. Can't have that, can we?

 

[Lee N]

Why did JSnake get banned anyway?

 

[MoogPaul]

If you're asking in relation to his VC/WW PR, that's now a moot point. N, for some unknown reason, no longer wants the PR leaked ahead of time. God forbid they get free promotion, build-up, excitement, and extra sales. Can't have that, can we?

you do realize that the releases have to be good in order for hype to build up. For instance, if JSnake had given the world the PR on Friday with these games that are coming out today, would it have really built excitement?

 

[Capndrake]

Why did JSnake get banned anyway?

He posted an offensive image in an OT thread about a guy's girlfriend cheating on him.

 

[DaBargainHunta]

you do realize that the releases have to be good in order for hype to build up. For instance, if JSnake had given the world the PR on Friday with these games that are coming out today, would it have really built excitement?

I don't see how it could hurt. There'll always be some negativity, of course - but both Star Soldier R (which I'm considering) and Sky Kid seem to have their fans.

 

[Shard]

If you're asking in relation to his VC/WW PR, that's now a moot point. N, for some unknown reason, no longer wants the PR leaked ahead of time. God forbid they get free promotion, build-up, excitement, and extra sales. Can't have that, can we?

So in other words he was finally found out and rendered useless as an information junction and now we are back to the old days on a full-time basis.

 

[DaBargainHunta]

So in other words he was finally found out and rendered useless as an information junction and now we are back to the old days on a full-time basis.

Seems like it. Wasn't just JSnake though. There were other leakers elsewhere (GameFAQs, etc.) and it looks like N put the muzzle on them too. Pretty baffling decision, as I still don't see the harm in releasing advanced PR, but I guess N has to be in "total control" of everything.

 

[Iam Canadian]

I might have bought Star Soldier R at a lower price point, but I can't really bring myself to spend 800 points on a short score attack game.

 

[Ranger X]

Seriously. WTF.

They have 2 supposedly different features/service (Wiiware and VC) and it's like they count it together. Fuck that.

We will NEVER have an update of more than one one or two items per service? I mean, for Wiiware i can understand receiving one game a week but for VC it's a joke.

 

[Shard]

Seems like it. Wasn't just JSnake though. There were other leakers elsewhere (GameFAQs, etc.) and it looks like N put the muzzle on them too. Pretty baffling decision, as I still don't see the harm in releasing advanced PR, but I guess N has to be in "total control" of everything.

As ass-backwards as it might have been, they were all on dangerous ground since they were not exactly playing by the agreed upon rules.

 

[JohnTinker]

They had better not release Dr. Mario and EarthBound in the same week

 

[sfog]

Interesting comment from VC-Reviews:

Atlantis1982 19 May 2008, 13:43 GMT
One good thing came out of this; a Sunsoft game is released (Unless I missed one). Good sign for those waiting for Master Blaster

Sky Kid, of course, is a Namco game - but it was published by Sunsoft.

Sunsoft has already released a couple of TG16 games in Japan last year, so it has been known that they've been a VC supporter for a while.

 

[celebi23]

Sky Kid? WTF?
1,000 Wii Points for some crappy horse game??
:lol
I'm saving my money this week

 

[JohnTinker]

Can't wait for next week. "To celebrate the release of WiiFit, no Virtual Console or WiiWare games this week! DO MORE PUSH-UPS!

 

[DavidSupina]

Look, I'd much rather know of Friday what we're getting the following Monday, but from a business perspective, it makes more sense for people not to know until Monday.

VC games are impulse driven. If you find out about a game on Friday, and have to wait until Monday, you might think twice.

This is just one of those instances where screwing the fans slightly happens to be a better business practise.

 

[Rancid Mildew]

I did not think I'd enjoy Star Soldier R so much. To me, it's VC's equivalent of Geometry Wars on XBLA though perhaps even more fun. I suppose it's on the short side but I don't mind in the slightest. I played the free 3 minute Geometry Wars demo for months before I got the hang of it :lol .

 

[DNF]

[JohnTinker]: "To celebrate the release of WiiFit, no Virtual Console or WiiWare games this week! DO MORE PUSH-UPS!
[Iwata]: laughs
[Myamoto]: laughs
[Iwata]: "Hmm, actually this would be a good idea"

 

[DaBargainHunta]

Look, I'd much rather know of Friday what we're getting the following Monday, but from a business perspective, it makes more sense for people not to know until Monday.

VC games are impulse driven. If you find out about a game on Friday, and have to wait until Monday, you might think twice.

This is just one of those instances where screwing the fans slightly happens to be a better business practise.

Disagree completely. There's nothing even remotely impulse driven about having to manually boot up the shop on Mondays and check it for the new releases.

This is clearly another case of N shooting themselves in the foot by being control freaks.

 

[Meloche]

Look, I'd much rather know of Friday what we're getting the following Monday, but from a business perspective, it makes more sense for people not to know until Monday.

VC games are impulse driven. If you find out about a game on Friday, and have to wait until Monday, you might think twice.

You know there's a problem when a company has to try to trick its consumers to buy what they're putting out. NCL has had the practice of announcing VC releases a month ahead since launch, and they've also consistently been releasing 3-4 games a week since then as well.

Whether they know the games beforehand or not, there will still be impulse buyers -- people who see some screens for a game and think oh, that sounds neat; it's only five bucks so I'll give it a try. The way that NOA is running the VC at the moment though (and since the beginning of 2008, really), there is no room for any kind of purchases other than impulse ones. They have a wealth of quality titles that a lot of people who love to get their hands on, and instead they release drivel that no one is interested in. This is not sound business.

NOA is slowly but surely killing any kind of buzz that anyone may have initially had for the Virtual Console. This is a problem because when they do finally start releasing decent games, they'll have to fight to get the audience back and interested again. I can't tell you how many times I've had conversations with new Wii owners, I'll bring up the Virtual Console, and see strong enthousiasm until they find out that none of the games that they want to play are up on the service, or coming out in the near future. These are consumers that will not be checking the internet for the weekly press releases, and unless I tell them again (let me repeat that: unless I do Nintendo's marketing for them) they will not know to download any of the games they want when they do eventually come out. For a hardware install base that is filled with casual users, this is an issue. Can you imagine if Apple had done this kind of thing when building their iTunes store -- delay releases to ensure they'd have a steady flow of content? It's idiotic.

Purposefully keeping games off the service for a later date will ultimately lessen their sales, not increase them, as people sell their Wiis, or stop playing, or lose interest, etc. The way the shop channel and the VC release schedule is set up, Nintendo is basically encouraging people to only buy games in their release week and then forget about them after. There are zero promotions or tie-ins that relate new releases to already available games on VC apart from the Masterpieces section in Brawl, they never mention the service at all at conferences or in regular press releases or in advertisements, and they don't even try to create any kind of sensible pattern of releases.

The only 'business strategy' that NOA is employing here is to divert interest away from the Virtual Console. To Wiiware, to retail releases, I don't know. But if they don't fully understand the effect of their Virtual Console release policy then they are complete and utter fools. Honestly, I'm not even sure which I'd prefer at this point -- their ignorance of what they're doing or their purposeful running of the VC into the ground. Either way it's pretty depressing for the fans of the service.

 

[charlequin]

But here, in this 438-page thread, you might search through the entire thing and only find a slightly greater number of people claiming that VC is by and large a fantastic deal.

Right. That's because $10 for a brand new, inventive game that's just been developed is a fantastic deal and $10 for an N64 game isn't. People holding these opinions understands that this is a double or triple-dip on games that have already sold through their primary lifetime and are basing their opinion of the pricing on that.

Even so, I don't think we could have a hypothetical situation where the prices were lower while everything else would remain the same.

This gets back into the usual argument about Nintendo's shitty third-party relations. It's their job to make these things work and thereby enjoy the increased profits thereof. A few simple bennies (say, a slightly improved profit split, or subsidized ESRB ratings, or other things) could counteract any loss of participation from a lower price point.

The problem with Nintendo's successful business right now is that there's no real push for them to do better than a mediocre job here: the Wii itself is already wildly successful and the VC is profitable at some level, so there's no push for them to manage the service well (filling it with a high quantity of well-chosen titles at an ideal price, then presenting them in an ideal fashion) when managing it somewhere between okay and terrible still does a good enough job for their "are we profiting on this" purposes.

 

[Jiggy]

But not until after a preambulatory complaint. Here are the number of games released per month that I bought:

November 2006 - 4
December 2006 - 5

2006 monthly average - 4.5

January 2007 - 3/4 (Contra III was a gift)
February 2007 - 5
March 2007 - 2
April 2007 - 5
May 2007 - 4
June 2007 - 2
July 2007 - 2
August 2007 - 4
September 2007 - 2
October 2007 - 3
November 2007 - 1
December 2007 - 3

2007 monthly average: 3.08 (or 3 without the gift)

January 2008 - 2
February 2008 - 1
March 2008 - 2
April 2008 - 3
May 2008 - 0

2008 monthly average, without counting May: 2
2008 monthly average, counting May: 1.6

If nothing good shows on May 26th, this will be the first month since Wii's launch to contain exactly zero VC games I took interest in. Cheers, Ninty.

You know there's a problem when a company has to try to trick its consumers to buy what they're putting out. NCL has had the practice of announcing VC releases a month ahead since launch, and they've also consistently been releasing 3-4 games a week since then as well.

Yeah. :/ I hate to say it because of the precedent it would set, but in this case it might actually be a good idea if NCL cracked down on NOA and forced them to abide by a similar schedule.

Whether they know the games beforehand or not, there will still be impulse buyers -- people who see some screens for a game and think oh, that sounds neat; it's only five bucks so I'll give it a try. The way that NOA is running the VC at the moment though (and since the beginning of 2008, really), there is no room for any kind of purchases other than impulse ones.

Most purchases of Star Tropics, Super Street Fighter II, Adventures of Lolo 2, 1080 Snowboarding, Lords of Thunder, Phantasy Star II, Super Turrican, DoReMi Fantasy, Mega Turrican, River City Ransom, Double Dragon, and Pokemon Puzzle League by people in here looked pretty intentional and thought-out to me. And even with no more PR until Mondays now, I don't see how it could be true that there'll be no purchases other than impulse ones. New Wii owners each month are going to have to look back and put at least a small amount of thought into it.

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you're saying?

I can't tell you how many times I've had conversations with new Wii owners, I'll bring up the Virtual Console, and see strong enthousiasm until they find out that none of the games that they want to play are up on the service, or coming out in the near future.

None? I have a wishlist of unreleased VC-eligible games as enormous as anyone else's--in fact, I think you could go into that "Games you wish were available on VC" thread and find that I was at least in the top three--but having none of the games that they want to play?

It's odd for me to be on this side of matters for once, but if a person isn't interested in anything out of 1080 Snowboarding, ActRaiser, the Adventures of Lolo series, Axelay, Bomberman '93, the Bonk series, Bubble Bobble, the Castlevania series, Contra III, the Donkey Kong Country series, Double Dragon, Ecco the Dolphin, the F-Zero series, Final Fight, the Ghouls 'n' Ghosts series, the Golden Axe series, the Gradius series, Gunstar Heroes, Harvest Moon, Kid Icarus, Kirby's Adventure, the Legend of Zelda series, Mario Kart 64, the Metroid series, the Ninja Gaiden series, Paper Mario, the Phantasy Star series, Pokemon Puzzle League, Pokemon Snap, Punch-Out, River City Ransom, Shining Force, the Sonic series, Star Fox 64, Street Fighter II, the Streets of Rage series, the 2D Super Mario games, Wave Race 64, the Wonder Boy series, and a slew of other titles, I don't think Nintendo needs to pursue that person as a customer.

Not that I like all of those games myself--I skipped over tons of them--but none of it appeals to the people you've spoken with? That's pretty extreme. Nintendo should be making more games available, no doubt, but I question whether a gamer who literally doesn't care about any of that huge and diverse library would be satisfied no matter what goes up. Or, at the very least, they're the types who would only buy two or three select games and then not return. (That's a valuable enough demographic, though.)

Can you imagine if Apple had done this kind of thing when building their iTunes store -- delay releases to ensure they'd have a steady flow of content? It's idiotic.

Better yet, imagine if they used such a strategy and kept their releases slower in North America and Europe than in Japan.

What's this? Idiocy is evolving!
oh man better mash B
B B B B B B B
stop evolving please don't evolve
But it failed!
Idiocy evolved into Lunacy!

The way the shop channel and the VC release schedule is set up, Nintendo is basically encouraging people to only buy games in their release week and then forget about them after. There are zero promotions or tie-ins that relate new releases to already available games on VC apart from the Masterpieces section in Brawl, they never mention the service at all at conferences or in regular press releases or in advertisements, and they don't even try to create any kind of sensible pattern of releases.

Obnoxious indeed, especially so when Iwata had said in that financial briefing that VC games sell in a more long-term fashion than retail releases. If that's the case, why not shift the advertising and release schedule in a way that reflects and caters to such? This should be an obvious move.

The only 'business strategy' that NOA is employing here is to divert interest away from the Virtual Console. To Wiiware, to retail releases, I don't know.

I hinted as much earlier, but they're pretty well fortunate that I don't care much about 360, or at all about PS3. Wii's lineup sure isn't meeting my needs for purely retail games; I think I'd rank only Virtual Boy and NES below Wii in the hierarchy of Nintendo systems. DS and SNES are in another galaxy for my money; GBA, GB/GBC, and GC are separate planets; and even N64 is at least an ocean or so away. Not going any further into it than that because 1) I realize Wii's only about a year and a half old while those systems all had at least three and a half years (though the third-party atmosphere for Wii retail doesn't give me much reason to hope for improvement), and 2) I don't really want to derail, but yeah.

Let's just say that diverting interest doesn't make sense to me. Honestly, for me the slowdown of quality VC releases only highlights the status of the Wii retail library--now that I'm more heavily forced to pay attention to it.

But if they don't fully understand the effect of their Virtual Console release policy then they are complete and utter fools. Honestly, I'm not even sure which I'd prefer at this point -- their ignorance of what they're doing or their purposeful running of the VC into the ground. Either way it's pretty depressing for the fans of the service.

Ignorance. At least then there's a chance that whoever's in charge of VC releases might get replaced at some point down the line.




Edit: I'll get to charlequin's post in a moment (in a new post). It's actually given me quite a bit to consider, so let me organize my thoughts on this one...

 

[sk3tch]

I finally managed to snag one of those Super Famicom Classic Controllers for the Wii (it arrived today). Because of its arrival, I'm on a SNES kick!

I have:

Super Mario World (my favorite Mario ever)
Super Metroid (finally getting unstuck after consulting Gamefaqs)
Super Castlevania IV (thanks GAF VC Secret Santa '07!)

I'm debating buying:

Harvest Moon
DoReMi Fantasy: Milon’s DokiDoki Adventure

Or anything else you guys highly suggest. Slim pickins' on SNES! Can't wait until they drop some more games for it on VC.

OH! Before I go - one note is that I'm a tad averse to high difficulty. I'm looking for a fun game that I can stick to (I don't have a ton of time to game, so I'd prefer to avoid repetition). Thanks!!

 

[Jiggy]

Right. That's because $10 for a brand new, inventive game that's just been developed is a fantastic deal and $10 for an N64 game isn't.

Which just goes back to what I've been saying, which is: "I can see how those looking primarily at the amount of effort on the publishing and development ends would think VC is overpriced."

But maybe I need to go back; maybe I wasn't being clear in exactly what I was contrasting, which is only the highest amount of praise each service has had. With a real quick scan over the very young WiiWare thread, there's at least one person claiming not merely that LostWinds is fantastic for $10 (makes sense to me, though I didn't really care for it personally), but that it's so much so that it could have cost $30-40. But the peak of fanaticism around this age-old thread only ever hits the point of "Eh, okay, VC prices are pretty acceptable."

There's a pretty stark difference between saying that something is good enough to justify a price three or four times greater and saying that something is good enough to justify a price that it actually holds. A significant enough difference, I think, that it can't be accounted for merely by concern over what level of effort went into making a game available. (Of course, perhaps my idea of comparing one brand of high-end enthusiast to another is fruitless in the first place. Probably is, even, now that I consider it.) But you did mention something else that made me think:

People holding these opinions understands that this is a double or triple-dip on games that have already sold through their primary lifetime and are basing their opinion of the pricing on that.

I've never seen anyone claim that a price is too high purely because the price will make the game more profitable for its publisher than that publisher deserves, but that's an interesting perspective. Interesting mainly because it's pretty far removed from the usual crowds I see, who care about some combination of the factors of how much entertainment they'll get, how much effort went into production, how well-made the game is, and how affordable it is to the end user.

But I suppose it's somewhat similar to my own concerns about how a price will impact a game's sales and how those sales will impact future endeavors by the company--such as the old standby Square-Enix Tax, where every successful $40 DS game probably ends up justifying another $40 DS game ahead of it, while every unsuccessful $40 DS game hurts potential for direct or spiritual sequels.

When I think of VC in the same sort of light, I have to concede that, although the prices are entirely fine in my own eyes (with the exception of N64), they're sabotaging the sales potential of VC since others find them excessive.

I do stand by what I said earlier, which is that it could be that fewer games would be available if the prices were lower and profit margins with them. (More on that in just a second.) However, raw sales figures are definitely being hurt by the pricing, so I can see the possibility that that might hurt third-parties' incentive to release games just as much as or more than a reduction in profit per unit would. I think it remains only a possibility, unprovable, but...

In any case, this part of your post gave me a new perspective that I legitimately hadn't seen before, and I feel like I understand the outcries against VC prices just a bit more for it.

A few simple bennies (say, a slightly improved profit split, or subsidized ESRB ratings, or other things) could counteract any loss of participation from a lower price point.

Iwata's implied that Nintendo shoulders the cost of ESRB ratings for VC games, unless it was a mistranslation. As for the profit split: if that was more in favor of third-parties, Nintendo would have even less incentive to make games available (and they're already running a shoddy job with the weekly releases as is, at least outside of Japan), so the library could still wind up being smaller since Nintendo itself is ultimately the greatest bottleneck to VC releases. Which would be their own fault, obviously, but knowing who's to blame wouldn't change the situation for gamers, and I'm saying it could be worse than it is.

The problem with Nintendo's successful business right now is that there's no real push for them to do better than a mediocre job here: the Wii itself is already wildly successful and the VC is profitable at some level, so there's no push for them to manage the service well (filling it with a high quantity of well-chosen titles at an ideal price, then presenting them in an ideal fashion) when managing it somewhere between okay and terrible still does a good enough job for their "are we profiting on this" purposes.

Modified one bit, but otherwise I fully agree.

 

[Jiggy]

I finally managed to snag one of those Super Famicom Classic Controllers for the Wii (it arrived today). Because of its arrival, I'm on a SNES kick!

I have:

Super Mario World (my favorite Mario ever)
Super Metroid (finally getting unstuck after consulting Gamefaqs)
Super Castlevania IV (thanks GAF VC Secret Santa '07!)

I'm debating buying:

Harvest Moon
DoReMi Fantasy: Milon’s DokiDoki Adventure

Or anything else you guys highly suggest. [...] Before I go - one note is that I'm a tad averse to high difficulty.

With Super Metroid out of the way, my highest recommendations go to:

DoReMi Fantasy - This earned a place in my heart as my third favorite pure platformer very quickly earlier this year. Smooth controls, lots of charm, great music, wonderful art, great level design... The last three or four bosses are pretty tough, but other than that it's easy enough.

Donkey Kong Country 2 - Unfortunately for DoReMi, this was already hanging around as my second favorite pure platformer and hasn't moved. Not nearly as charming, but the level design and music are even better. I think this is supposed to be quite a bit harder than DoReMi. Not really sure... Personally speaking, I played DKC2 so much back in the day that when I replayed it on VC, the entire thing seemed easy, but maybe that's because I always knew what to do, where to do it, how to best handle each enemy, etc. I think some first-timers on GAF were having trouble in parts, and I definitely remember struggling with some areas when I was younger, so... maybe not for you? I don't know.

Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past - Assuming you've never played it, this is pretty great, and iconic for a reason. By far the easiest of these three recommendations, and it's actually not that long, either.

 

[A Black Falcon]

you know it lasts 7 minutes, don't you?

5 minutes, actually. Caravan/Carnival modes in shmups only last 2-5 minutes, and generally there is only a single stage in the game that you play on. The challenge is trying to maximize your score within that stage, in that time limit... and if you like shmups, this can be a really fun challenge. You don't just play it once. You play it over and over, always trying to get a better score... but that's really something for the WiiWare thread.

Or anything else you guys highly suggest. Slim pickins' on SNES! Can't wait until they drop some more games for it on VC.

At this rate you'll be waiting a long, long time...

 

[Meloche]

Most purchases of Star Tropics, Super Street Fighter II, Adventures of Lolo 2, 1080 Snowboarding, Lords of Thunder, Phantasy Star II, Super Turrican, DoReMi Fantasy, Mega Turrican, River City Ransom, Double Dragon, and Pokemon Puzzle League by people in here looked pretty intentional and thought-out to me. And even with no more PR until Mondays now, I don't see how it could be true that there'll be no purchases other than impulse ones. New Wii owners each month are going to have to look back and put at least a small amount of thought into it.

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you're saying?

I used 'impulse' because David used the term in his post that I was replying to, but it probably wasn't the best word to use. I was referring to how the Virtual Console release schedule, much like the way videogame retail is handled, conditions the buyer to purchase games as soon as they come out or else not buy them at all. There is no push from Nintendo at all encouraging users to check out older games; even the Recommend Games area in the shop channel seems to feature recently added games more often than not. The Nintendo Channel just launched in North America, so that's a start. But I'm not impressed with Nintendo's mentality of trying to drag weekly releases out for as long as possible, at all. You can't sell games that aren't up on the service, so why would you want to have a backlog of games yet to come out several years from now? That's several years where people could have been buying those games, but didn't because they simply weren't available.

None? I have a wishlist of unreleased VC-eligible games as enormous as anyone else's--in fact, I think you could go into that "Games you wish were available on VC" thread and find that I was at least in the top three--but having none of the games that they want to play?

[snip: list of awesome]

Not that I like all of those games myself--I skipped over tons of them--but none of it appeals to the people you've spoken with? That's pretty extreme. Nintendo should be making more games available, no doubt, but I question whether a gamer who literally doesn't care about any of that huge and diverse library would be satisfied no matter what goes up. Or, at the very least, they're the types who would only buy two or three select games and then not return. (That's a valuable enough demographic, though.)

I was exaggerating when I said none, but only slightly. Very casual gamers are probably only going to be interested in one or two titles to start with; games that they may have played at a friends house in the past, or maybe they had an NES or an SNES or whatever and there was one game that they really liked to play, and since they sold their copy / can't find it / it no longer works they'd love to be able to play it again on Wii. Initially they may be interested in that one game or those few games, but if they know they can find it that at least gives them the incentive to boot up the Wii Shop Channel and pick it up. And then what do you know, they have leftover points to spend! That's when they'll start to poke around the shop channel to see what else is there, maybe they'll go looking for recommendations (Nintendo Channel?), or they'll just try something at random. But for a lot of people, there has to be that initial reason to go into the Shop Channel in the first place and buy points before they can start to appreciate what else is there.

I can give people a push buy gifting them some of those awesome games that they would have otherwise been unaware of, but that's just Nintendo once again leaving the burden of their core games marketing to the fans. Again I go back to the Nintendo Channel (thanks for the inexplicably long delay between the NA release and Japanese one btw, NOA) as a way of rectifying this imbalance of information, but so far I haven't been all that impressed with the results. Give it time! I guess.

Obnoxious indeed, especially so when Iwata had said in that financial briefing that VC games sell in a more long-term fashion than retail releases. If that's the case, why not shift the advertising and release schedule in a way that reflects and caters to such? This should be an obvious move.

Leaflets advertising related VC games to retail releases inserted in the box along with the My Nintendo booklet / game manual; releasing prequels via VC in anticipation of retail releases; free downloads of VC games included with related games; this stuff is not difficult to figure out, nor is it costly to implement!

Let's just say that diverting interest doesn't make sense to me. Honestly, for me the slowdown of quality VC releases only highlights the status of the Wii retail library--now that I'm more heavily forced to pay attention to it.

It's a pre-emptive strike on their part. They're killing it now so that when the retail releases do (hypothetically) pick-up, you'll be primed and ready to go. . .

I mean we can continue arguing about these things (and by all means reply, I enjoy the discussion) but I know we both want exactly the same thing: more VC releases more often and of more consistent quality. And I think I'm going to download DoReMi Fantasy tomorrow based on your recommendation -- it looks so charming! Thanks. :0)

 

[DDayton]

I can't tell you how many times I've had conversations with new Wii owners, I'll bring up the Virtual Console, and see strong enthousiasm until they find out that none of the games that they want to play are up on the service, or coming out in the near future.

You know, in all honest, I find that hard to believe. I think that, for MOST consumers, the vast majority of the old games they want are already on the Virtual Console.

Seriously... what games would the typical consumer expect/hope to find on VC that aren't there?

(I know what games I want that aren't there, mind you... I'm just doubtful that "new Wii owners" are expecting the more esoteric releases.)

Edit: Okay, there is one game that I can see being expected and Wii owners being disappointed by the lack of it... Goldeneye. However, that's a special case.

 

[Jiggy]

Just to get one thing out of the way first, even though it was at the end of your post:

I mean we can continue arguing about these things (and by all means reply, I enjoy the discussion) but I know we both want exactly the same thing: more VC releases more often and of more consistent quality.

Yes. And the lack of said releases is probably the main reason I'm in here disputing nearly every point on every side, all the time. There's nothing new to play on VC for entertainment, after all, so I have to get my kicks by being the thread curmudgeon.

I used 'impulse' because David used the term in his post that I was replying to, but it probably wasn't the best word to use. I was referring to how the Virtual Console release schedule, much like the way videogame retail is handled, conditions the buyer to purchase games as soon as they come out or else not buy them at all. There is no push from Nintendo at all encouraging users to check out older games[...]

In that case, I agree. Encouraging purchases at the release date or never makes sense for retail releases, with their limited shelf life, but one would think a digital distribution service should be run differently.

The Nintendo Channel just launched in North America, so that's a start. But I'm not impressed with Nintendo's mentality of trying to drag weekly releases out for as long as possible, at all. You can't sell games that aren't up on the service, so why would you want to have a backlog of games yet to come out several years from now? That's several years where people could have been buying those games, but didn't because they simply weren't available.

Agreed on that second point. Again, this is baffling when Iwata has openly said that VC sales are stretched out (which is true despite Nintendo itself not pushing the service in that direction). That being so, one would think that they'd have every reason to release games as soon as time allows.

To focus in on something you said, and an aspect of the whole debate that I don't think I've touched on for a couple months... Serious questions are raised by the fact that, as you said, weekly releases are ultimately being "dragged out." A weekly release schedule isn't permanently sustainable, even at one game per week. At some point they'll run out of titles to release, and at that time their hand will be forced into giving up the weekly schedule regardless of their wishes. If this can be acknowledged as true, then why not release more games sooner and (as you said) accumulate sales sooner, even though the stopping point will also come at an earlier date?

If only 300 more games were viable for release on VC, I don't think even the staunchest of apologists would prefer that the service be stretched out for 300 weeks (nearly six years!) at one game each, rather than be stretched out for 100 weeks at three games each. Either path results in the service dying off, but the latter option is quicker in terms of getting more games to gamers and more money to Nintendo and the third-parties. It makes no sense to me that this is the route Nintendo of America would travel. :/

I was exaggerating when I said none, but only slightly. Very casual gamers are probably only going to be interested in one or two titles to start with; games that they may have played at a friends house in the past, or maybe they had an NES or an SNES or whatever and there was one game that they really liked to play, and since they sold their copy / can't find it / it no longer works they'd love to be able to play it again on Wii.

I thought about it for a second after reading the bolded part here, and I suppose you're right in one sense--I do remember talking to a guy who had all kinds of nostalgia for Altered Beast, which isn't particularly a critically-beloved title, and more or less never shut up about it until he got a Wii. He wanted some other VC games too, though, but I see what you're saying in that even a more obscure title can ultimately be the selling point. (Which is just one reason I'm not inherently opposed to shovelware being released on VC. [I'm opposed to weeks of nothing but shovelware, though. :/])

Anyway, not quoting everything, but suffice it to say that I agree that a lot of people need an initial push from one or two specific points. Already said my piece on that a few times, in any case.

[...]Nintendo once again leaving the burden of their core games marketing to the fans. Again I go back to the Nintendo Channel (thanks for the inexplicably long delay between the NA release and Japanese one btw, NOA) as a way of rectifying this imbalance of information, but so far I haven't been all that impressed with the results. Give it time! I guess.

Yeah, it's pretty lame in terms of helping promote gaming. I mean, I went ahead and rated as many games as it would let me, on the off-chance that someone or other might be helped by the data I send in, but this channel really just boils down to a DS demo station for me.

Leaflets advertising related VC games to retail releases inserted in the box along with the My Nintendo booklet / game manual

Now that you mention this, it really does boggle the mind that Nintendo hasn't done this yet. :/ DS and Wii releases always come with inserts recommending three other games that are similar in gameplay or thematic appeal, but for VC they don't put out any such effort.

It's a pre-emptive strike on their part. They're killing it now so that when the retail releases do (hypothetically) pick-up, you'll be primed and ready to go. . .

The funny thing is that I'd consider passing up on (or waiting on a price drop for) one first-party Wii retail game that I otherwise would have bought, out of protest--not because it'd affect them in the least, but psychologically I'd feel better--but I can't even do that because there aren't any Nintendo games I want on the horizon in the first place.

And I think I'm going to download DoReMi Fantasy tomorrow based on your recommendation -- it looks so charming! Thanks. :0)

Yeah, it's pretty great stuff. Second most pleasant surprise of 2008 for me, behind The World Ends With You.

 

[DaBargainHunta]

I finally managed to snag one of those Super Famicom Classic Controllers for the Wii (it arrived today). Because of its arrival, I'm on a SNES kick!

I have:

Super Mario World (my favorite Mario ever)
Super Metroid (finally getting unstuck after consulting Gamefaqs)
Super Castlevania IV (thanks GAF VC Secret Santa '07!)

I'm debating buying:

Harvest Moon
DoReMi Fantasy: Milon’s DokiDoki Adventure

Or anything else you guys highly suggest. Slim pickins' on SNES! Can't wait until they drop some more games for it on VC.

OH! Before I go - one note is that I'm a tad averse to high difficulty. I'm looking for a fun game that I can stick to (I don't have a ton of time to game, so I'd prefer to avoid repetition). Thanks!!

It's awesome to see some excitement for the VC in the middle of so much widespread bitching (mine included, I admit).

Some of my recommendations:

ActRaiser: I discovered this amazing gem a few weeks ago, EIGHTEEN years late to the party. It still holds up as one of the most stunningly beautiful games ever made, and it is an absolute joy to play through. As for challenge, I can't see it being any tougher than the games you named above, so you should be okay.

Donkey Kong Country: Another poster recommended DKC2, and while I'm sure that's a great game (I've never played it myself), don't overlook the original just because the sequel may be better. The original DKC gets unfairly bashed for being a case of style over substance, but I don't agree with that viewpoint. It may not be in the league of Mario, but it's a damn fine platformer in its own right.

SimCity: I haven't played this one myself, but I remember how much fun my friends had with it when the SNES first launched. Plus, it's still highly regarded as the best SimCity ever released on a console. There has to be a reason for that.

Final Fight: Yes, it's gimped (no 2P mode and a missing character), but it's still one of the finest beat-em-ups ever made. You're probably better off with the Streets of Rage games on Genesis, but this is the cream of the SNES beat-em-up crop. I'm not sure about the difficulty though. I can't really remember now.

I also second DoReMi Fantasy and Zelda: LTTP, both mentioned above by another poster.

I would recommend Contra 3 and Legend of the Mystical Ninja as well, but I suspect those may be of a higher difficulty than you're looking for (especially Mystical Ninja).