Official bitching about Hudson abandoning VC support. [VC/WiiWare = lost cause]
- Thread starter Kobun Heat
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JSnake said:
Well, I'm not sure how much credibility reidman's contact has at this point, as Earthbound has been ESRB-rated for Wii, which shows that Nintendo is probably planning to release it at some point, especially if ESRB ratings are as expensive as the thread indicated earlier. The "winding down" he's referring to may actually refer to the current VC situation, where we're getting only one or two games a week. After all, it's not like the release schedule can get much worse.
Iam Canadian
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JSnake said:
Legal issues? Explain further, please.
Cosmonaut X
Member
JSnake said:
Hm - what kind of "legal issues"?
Kobun Heat
Member
I'd imagine it's related to sewing up the rights to Shigesato Itoi's writing or the English translation of same. Maybe there was something in the contract that said the rights to his work lapsed past a certain point.
Iam Canadian
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Kobun Heat said:
I can't say anything for Itoi's writing (but Nintendo was able to use the original version of Itoi's writing for the Masterpiece demo in Brawl), but Dan Owsen did Earthbound's translation, and he also did other translations for Nintendo games of this period. I can't see there being any issues relating to this game when they plainly didn't exist for other Nintendo games released at this time.
evilromero
Member
Wind down? I am willing to spend a couple hundred on the right games and they are ready to wind down?
Iam Canadian
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JSnake said:
"Two songs"? I know the New Age Retro Hippie song (also used for the fight with Frank) is based off of an existing song, but I can't imagine what other song NoA would want changed.
Edit: Wait, I remember reading on Starmen years ago that the music that plays when you wake up in a hotel is based off of something. Can anyone confirm that?
Dragona Akehi
Retired
Time to sell my useless NTSC/US Wii and get a proper goddamned unit, where VC releases are still coming out regularly.
Kobun Heat
Member
Imagine what a fucking bitch I would be about Virtual Console if I didn't have a Japanese Wii as a safety valve.Dragona Akehi said:
evilromero
Member
Wow. This is depressing if the news is to be believed. It would be a shame if Dracula X failed to make it to the US VC.
Here we go.
Fuck the Virtual Console. Last year, I was buying games left and right. This year, I've barely looked at the channel.
One game a week is pathetic. The fact that we got maybe two foreign titles (correct me if I'm wrong) is pathetic. The fact that they charge extra for those titles is also pathetic, considering that they are games that should have been released here in the first place. The fact that one of these foreign titles is actually the lost fucking levels that was in Mario All Stars is pathetic.
There's thousands of games that could be on the VC right now. The last time I looked at the release list for the Wii, I really didn't see anything I want for it. My Wii is lying dormant right now. It doesn't have to be that way.
Nintendo really needs to get their shit together. Honestly, if I were working for Nintendo and in charge of VC, I would be pushing for some sort of release of Mother 3 on the Wii, especially after Lucas was in FUCKING SMASH BROTHERS. Didn't Brawl fucking sell a shitload of copies? Wasn't Lucas one of the characters you could select from the very, very beginning? Wasn't Ness in this game as well? Wasn't stages in the game BASED on Mother 3? For one, Nintendo fucking released Fire Emblem games over here, they can sure as hell do the same with a Earthbound/Mother revival, starting with the game's VC release.
There's ALL SORTS of old titles that could be released that are being neglected. If this "winding down" rumor is true, then Nintendo is missing an epic opportunity.
Fuck the Virtual Console. Last year, I was buying games left and right. This year, I've barely looked at the channel.
One game a week is pathetic. The fact that we got maybe two foreign titles (correct me if I'm wrong) is pathetic. The fact that they charge extra for those titles is also pathetic, considering that they are games that should have been released here in the first place. The fact that one of these foreign titles is actually the lost fucking levels that was in Mario All Stars is pathetic.
There's thousands of games that could be on the VC right now. The last time I looked at the release list for the Wii, I really didn't see anything I want for it. My Wii is lying dormant right now. It doesn't have to be that way.
Nintendo really needs to get their shit together. Honestly, if I were working for Nintendo and in charge of VC, I would be pushing for some sort of release of Mother 3 on the Wii, especially after Lucas was in FUCKING SMASH BROTHERS. Didn't Brawl fucking sell a shitload of copies? Wasn't Lucas one of the characters you could select from the very, very beginning? Wasn't Ness in this game as well? Wasn't stages in the game BASED on Mother 3? For one, Nintendo fucking released Fire Emblem games over here, they can sure as hell do the same with a Earthbound/Mother revival, starting with the game's VC release.
There's ALL SORTS of old titles that could be released that are being neglected. If this "winding down" rumor is true, then Nintendo is missing an epic opportunity.
Iam Canadian
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Bloodwake said:
Quoted for freaking truth. D: Nintendo's treatment of the Mother series ticks me off. There's absolutely no reason they should shy away from releasing Mother 3, which is part of a series with a proven North American fanbase, when they used Melee to take a chance on Fire Emblem, a complete unknown.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
Ya hahahah!!
Where are you Nintendo apologists NOW???
Where are you Nintendo apologists NOW???
Dragona Akehi
Retired
Kobun Heat said:
Hah. I knew I should have gone with NTSC/JPN but nooooo I just had to be an idiot and order the US version. Christ.
I will try to stop the complaining for a while.
I only have 87 blocks left right now so i'm gonna wait until i'm finished with a couple of games or a miraculous storage solution before buying anything else.
Oh wait, i should complain after the lack of storage solutions i guess.
I only have 87 blocks left right now so i'm gonna wait until i'm finished with a couple of games or a miraculous storage solution before buying anything else.
Oh wait, i should complain after the lack of storage solutions i guess.
JSnake's Contact said:
So let me make sure I get this: NoA wants to change a couple songs, NCL doesn't think it's worth it. Is it possible to release the game without touching these songs, assuming NoA gets over it?
Basically there's two possible situations from what I can see: One, NoA knows that they will receive legal threats of EB is released with these songs. In that case, I can understand it not being released yet. The other possibility is that NoA thinks they will receive legal threats if the game is released with the songs, in which case they're morons because nobody is going to care if an old SNES game is re-released with songs that are inspired by existing songs (which is not something you get sued over).
Good God, if NoA's entire neglect of Earthbound over the last decade or so (not releasing Mother 1+2 GBA, cutting EB's Smash Bros Masterpiece) is due to hesitation over a couple of songs then I think I may go mad.
Somewhat of a *shrug* from me for "winding down," even if it's true. (And I wouldn't be surprised either way. I could just imagine NOA getting employees to "leak" false information in an attempt to track down sources of real leaks.) Virtual Console was over 97% of the reason I bought a Wii at the time that I bought it (although by now I guess it's more like 93.5% of the reason I continue to own one), but as I said before, even my complaints aren't centered around the idea of VC not fulfilling promises it never made. If various games like Terranigma or Twinkle Star Sprites or any number of others never show up, that's fine. Never really had any expectations there.
But only "somewhat" of a *shrug*, because they better well have the decency to at least follow through on all of the games that have been released in other regions already, along with all of the games that they've had rated by the ESRB.
You said "I think more than a majority of the people who own Wiis are pretty happy with what we've gotten so far." But I see that as an irrelevancy for two reasons. One is what you just mentioned and what I was hinting at earlier, which is that less than a majority of Wii owners use the online service. So, yes, if you'd like to think of it this way, it's true that a majority of Wii owners aren't clamoring for more games on VC, since a majority of Wii owners don't pay attention to VC to begin with. That's not exactly the greatest point in Nintendo's favor, though.
The second reason, which I didn't mention, is that I don't think we should settle for "pretty happy" with a library in a situation where we're talking about games that have already been made. Looking back to Nintendo's previous home console, people complained all the time when there were game droughts--but even those are at least semi-justified because it takes a substantial amount of effort to develop a brand new title. When there's a game drought of titles that already exist, which only need testing and a manual before they can be released--games without development costs, without production costs, without shipping costs, without marketing costs--there's no excuse. Obviously not every game's rights are still up for grabs, but NOA's not even providing games like Mega Man, Vectorman, or Final Soldier, all of which are already available on VC in English form in another territory. There's no great dispute over these games, no licensing issues keeping them locked in purgatory. Nobody should be content with "pretty happy" if they'd be "really happy" or "very happy" if Nintendo would simply bring over games that require an effort more minimal than anything else in this industry.
But only "somewhat" of a *shrug*, because they better well have the decency to at least follow through on all of the games that have been released in other regions already, along with all of the games that they've had rated by the ESRB.
That doesn't look to me like a qualifier so much as an entirely different statement. If you had said that, I wouldn't have argued it.thaivo said:
Yes. I'd like to see what the other side considers unreasonable. If I end up agreeing, then I'll have expanded my perspective and I'll be able to address the VC situation with a broader view than I had before. If I end up disagreeing, then I'll elaborate on why--and perhaps others will change their perspective as a consequence.Is that a serious request? I must have a lower tolerance for unreasonableness than you.
I'm not sure how to respond to this other than to say "???" How am I trying to portray the situation as bad by the fact of pointing out that most Wii owners haven't bought a VC game?
You said "I think more than a majority of the people who own Wiis are pretty happy with what we've gotten so far." But I see that as an irrelevancy for two reasons. One is what you just mentioned and what I was hinting at earlier, which is that less than a majority of Wii owners use the online service. So, yes, if you'd like to think of it this way, it's true that a majority of Wii owners aren't clamoring for more games on VC, since a majority of Wii owners don't pay attention to VC to begin with. That's not exactly the greatest point in Nintendo's favor, though.
The second reason, which I didn't mention, is that I don't think we should settle for "pretty happy" with a library in a situation where we're talking about games that have already been made. Looking back to Nintendo's previous home console, people complained all the time when there were game droughts--but even those are at least semi-justified because it takes a substantial amount of effort to develop a brand new title. When there's a game drought of titles that already exist, which only need testing and a manual before they can be released--games without development costs, without production costs, without shipping costs, without marketing costs--there's no excuse. Obviously not every game's rights are still up for grabs, but NOA's not even providing games like Mega Man, Vectorman, or Final Soldier, all of which are already available on VC in English form in another territory. There's no great dispute over these games, no licensing issues keeping them locked in purgatory. Nobody should be content with "pretty happy" if they'd be "really happy" or "very happy" if Nintendo would simply bring over games that require an effort more minimal than anything else in this industry.
And that's why I never tried to claim any such thing.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
Cruis'n USA is up, and Cruis'n World is listed in the Wikipedia articles of potential VC games...evilromero said:
Can someone give me a link to the whole "your games will never come out" brouhaha, btw?
Infernal Monkey
Member
Poor Pilotwings 64. 
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
How can the most successful company this gen just not give a shit about such a trivial service?
They might not care precisely because they're so successful. :/ If only Wii was a failure, maybe they'd actually be trying with VC. Not sure, really, but they're certainly, definitely, absolutely not in a position where they have to defend any of their reasoning to random forumgoers like us. Sucks. :/
I'd argue the inverse. That they have fewer reasons to complain about game droughts because the back-catalog is ENORMOUS and there's no quality difference between a VC game released today and one released 12 months ago, so there's no quality penalty for picking a game you've missed out of the back catalog.Jiggy37 said:
That is, of course, unless you've played every excellent game you've not yet played. At that point, I suppose you could start complaining. However the list of excellent VC games I need to buy is still between 5 and 8 games long. That's hours upon hours upon hours of play.
And they've just launched WiiWare with an interesting game or two on top of that. There is no gaming drought. There are mountains of fantastic games to play on all platforms.
PepsimanVsJoe said:
This. Really, it's money on the table for them that they'd be passing up if they "stopped" VC now. How much work does it really take to prep VC releases? It can't be much. And they don't spend any money promoting VC, so they can't say they've lost money in that regard.
If they decide to "phase out" VC, they're making a mistake, IMO, though I doubt it will affect them much in the long term...
I think I lost my point in translation, but that's not the inverse of what I was saying; in fact, I agree with all of that. You're talking about what gamers should be doing, while I was (making attempts at) talking about what Nintendo should be doing. My only point in saying that people had complained about game droughts in a retail library was not to suggest that they shouldn't have done so, but that there are very powerful reasons that new retail games can't be cranked out every two weeks or so--whereas none of those reasons are in place for VC releases.Slavik81 said:
I've bought 54 games and feel pretty confident that I have indeed played every excellent VC game I'd be interested in.
Ninja Gaiden and its sequel are the only possible exceptions, but 2D action games are a fair way down the totem pole of genres I like.Well, that's what I meant. If you'd like to think otherwise you can.Jiggy37 said:
I'm not sure you understood the jist of my comment. It was that this is Gaf and that unreasonableness is ever present. People act unreasonably just even to amuse themselves and others. It's not an attack on anyone, but a statement of how I see most of the forum posts.
Which proves that they are unhappy with the way things are? I think it would be hard to argue that if all Wii owners connected their Wiis, most would not in the same hemisphere of dedication as those posting in this thread. Most would not be complaining, and would likely believe that the selection is quite diverse, and serves as a great bit of nostalgia.
Then you agree with me.
I don't know if I agree. I'd rather feel "pretty happy" than unsatisfied, and I'd definitely rather appreciate things than whine about things I have no control over.
Seriously though. It's not like the games aren't going to come. VC, WiiWare, and the great commercial releases. I'm not sure Nintendo fans have had it this good since the SNES.
I know my spirits are high on the Wii, especially when my wife loves to play WiiFit, and SM3 with me in our spare time. The Wii has been great in my household, and much of that is specifically because of the VC. And I still haven't bought all the VC games I want (I have about 30 so far).
The only thing that irks me about VC is what will happen when Nintendo's new system is released. That's when the real groans will commence, and you might even hear me complain.
It's not like Nintendo can treat these things like a PC person treats Roms. There is a little more involved then just throwing the games out there. I'm certain there are licensing issues, intellectual property issues, royalty issues, etc. One could even argue that some of the obstacles in front of getting a game on VC don't even exist wiath new games. This is not saying that they don't have a huge backlog of games that developers have already okayed.... but it isn't as simple as you seem to think it is.Jiggy37 said:
Impressive.. That's a lot of games. I've got about 30 and have only been able to finish maybe 9 or so. :lol I remember when I had an NES, SNES, Genesis and Turbo Express. Through those six years or so, I don't think I played 54 games. :lolJiggy37 said:I've bought 54 games and feel pretty confident that I have indeed played every excellent VC game I'd be interested in.
DimmuBurgerKing
Member
You know.. it could be that the Earthbound we know and love wasn't even rated by the ESRB. Think it could actually be Mother 1, for the NES? Another "Import" title for 600 points? SNES Earthbound to be released later as "Earthbound 2?" Bueller?
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
DimmuBurgerKing said:
That would actually be better since it would be new to most of us!
DimmuBurgerKing
Member
Hmm. Anybody know if the New-Age Retro Hippie/Frankie battle song exists in Mother 1?
Iam Canadian
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The NES Mother 1 released as Earthbound in North America....well, as a Mother fan, I would certainly like to see that, but Mother 1 isn't the kind of game I'd use to introduce people to the series. Plot-wise, it's not really that important to the overall story...the only thing you really learn that's relevant to the other Mother games is
The translation, assuming the original one is used, is a bit dry and the game lacks the humour and emotional power of Earthbound and Mother 3.
Aside from that, there are definitely gameplay issues. Mother is an NES RPG in spirit, which means you'll have to grind a lot. Plus, the difficulty balance gets way out of whack near the end; way too many enemies in the final areas outclass your characters and a lot of them have instant-death attacks. Some of the dungeons are just absurdly long and labyrinthine, like Duncan's Factory, where just surviving can be difficult.
My point is that it would probably be in Nintendo's best interests to release the SNES Earthbound first, since Mother can be brutal enough to turn people away from the series. I was able to derive enjoyment out of it, but...well, my love of the Mother series is pretty much fanaticism, so I'm probably just a tiny bit biased. >_>
the origins of Giygas.
Aside from that, there are definitely gameplay issues. Mother is an NES RPG in spirit, which means you'll have to grind a lot. Plus, the difficulty balance gets way out of whack near the end; way too many enemies in the final areas outclass your characters and a lot of them have instant-death attacks. Some of the dungeons are just absurdly long and labyrinthine, like Duncan's Factory, where just surviving can be difficult.
My point is that it would probably be in Nintendo's best interests to release the SNES Earthbound first, since Mother can be brutal enough to turn people away from the series. I was able to derive enjoyment out of it, but...well, my love of the Mother series is pretty much fanaticism, so I'm probably just a tiny bit biased. >_>
Iam Canadian
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JHarris said:
That's true.
Also, learning what you learn about Giygas in Mother makes his story seem all the more depressing.
And I'm not saying that Mother is completely devoid of humour; after all, this is a game where you fight malnourished robots. But compared to its successors, it's not quite as funny or as clever. And the translation has some weird lines.
Like Giygas telling you to "go and perish with the rest of the ugly Earth people.