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[Chichikov]

I think you may have gained 20 pounds from being so full of shit.
You want to lose weight and get into shape, drop the BS and get serious.
If you want to talk juvenile random crap on the internet, may I suggest you pick another thread?

 

[Captain Glanton]

I think you may have gained 20 pounds from being so full of shit.
You want to lose weight and get into shape, drop the BS and get serious.
If you want to talk juvenile random crap on the internet, may I suggest you pick another thread?

Well, we made it to 20 pages without that bullshit. I consider it a victory.

Can you give more details on shoulder exercises you use to rehab your rotator cuff. I injured mine somehow and after a while thought it was fully healed. It wasn't and I re-injured it. It's a nagging injury and I don't want to be stuck with it forever. I want to be able to play tennis and disc golf again.

Everyone with shoulder problems, I've put a few pointers in the top of the OP.

 

[Shoho]

I think you may have gained 20 pounds from being so full of shit.
You want to lose weight and get into shape, drop the BS and get serious.
If you want to talk juvenile random crap on the internet, may I suggest you pick another thread?

Im seriously WTF here. How am I supposed to get it across that I am not joking. Seriously fcuking no.

Listen... Unless I figured something wrong, then I dont see what the big deal is.


For almost two weeks, I did nothing but stay at home and eat. In that time, I gained 10 KG(20 pounds) on the weight scale. Is it water and other liquids? maybe. Its not possible to store so much fat. But because I had been on an atkins-ish diet it meant(probably) that when I started eating bread(pizza,bagels), soda(diet products but still) and cookies and cakes and candy, it just sucked it right to it.

Im trying to get a high metabolism. I want to be like does people who can eat 1000g of chocolate icescream without gaining a pound, even when they dont work out or are active.

both my mom and dad was slim early in their youth, but have since both become fat. I dont think its genetic. thats just excuses right?


crap crap crap.

 

[WickedAngel]

I finally started back after having taken two years off (Serious motorcycle accident two years ago).

I've been out of this for a long time so I'm not sure on exactly what my future training regimen will look like but this is the tentative one I've worked up (And followed this week).

Monday (This is more of a light day for hitting areas that I used to overlook)

Dumbbell Flyes
Dumbbell Press
Overhead Dumbbell Press (I know there is a name for this but I don't recall exactly what it is so that's why I wrote down to remember)
Outward Dumbbell Extensions (Same deal; this is wear you hold the dumbbells at your side and raise your arms without bending your elbows).
Dumbbell Pullover
Lat Pulldown

Tuesday

Squat Rack
Leg Press
Row Machine
Deadlift

Wednesday

Dumbbell Curls
Preacher Curls
Dumbbell Kickbacks
Tricep Pushups (Not sure of the exact name of this one; I push the weight of my body up using my triceps)

Thursday

Rest

Friday

Dumbbell Press (Warmup)
Benchpress
Overhead Dumbbell Press
Lat Pulldown

I jog sporadically and do various types of sit-ups every night. My cardio needs serious work; I've never done anything with that before now.

If I'm missing out on something important in my schedule, please point it out. I'm a novice at training and I only did it in the past to gain a physique (I was never really strong, even at my best. I had a fantastic body but no real strength or endurance to speak of).

 

[Anton Sugar]

I have a few questions for the knowledgeable people here.

First of all, I'm interested in improving my anaerobic fitness level with an exercise that's also good cardio (i.e. an exercise that promotes heart health). But I don't want this exercise too burn too many calories, and I also don't want this exercise to interfere with muscle growth. Any tips? Maybe intervals?

Second of all, I have a question about diet. I'm currently lifting weights to gain strength, and I've finally started looking at my diet. My past diet appears to have been very carb-heavy (but it never made me gain fat), so I'm adding protein. I'm at 3000 calories a day roughly. (I think I'm an ectomorphic bodytype: lean even with big carb intake, good aerobic abilities.)

What is a good ratio for calories from protein to calories from carbs to calories from fat?

Get 1g per pound of bodyweight with protein, or more. I eat about 3000 calories a day, minimum, and I am very familiar with my body and how it works, so I know how much fat I am able to consume (healthy fat) and still stay fairly leave. If you want to gain more, eat even more. A lot of it depends on your bodyweight--how much do you weigh?

 

[Anton Sugar]

I finally started back after having taken two years off (Serious motorcycle accident two years ago).

I've been out of this for a long time so I'm not sure on exactly what my future training regimen will look like but this is the tentative one I've worked up (And followed this week).

Monday (This is more of a light day for hitting areas that I used to overlook)

Dumbbell Flyes
Dumbbell Press
Overhead Dumbbell Press (I know there is a name for this but I don't recall exactly what it is so that's why I wrote down to remember)
Outward Dumbbell Extensions (Same deal; this is wear you hold the dumbbells at your side and raise your arms without bending your elbows).
Dumbbell Pullover
Lat Pulldown

Tuesday

Squat Rack
Leg Press
Row Machine
Deadlift

Wednesday

Dumbbell Curls
Preacher Curls
Dumbbell Kickbacks
Tricep Pushups (Not sure of the exact name of this one; I push the weight of my body up using my triceps)

Thursday

Rest

Friday

Dumbbell Press (Warmup)
Benchpress
Overhead Dumbbell Press
Lat Pulldown

I jog sporadically and do various types of sit-ups every night. My cardio needs serious work; I've never done anything with that before now.

If I'm missing out on something important in my schedule, please point it out. I'm a novice at training and I only did it in the past to gain a physique (I was never really strong, even at my best. I had a fantastic body but no real strength or endurance to speak of).

Unfortunately, this seems to be the norm, not the exception.

You need more compound, full body movements. You need to squat or deadlift more. I hope by "Squat Rack" you don't mean the smith machine/"on rails" squat movements.

Think of it like this:
Your body is not a collection of parts. Everything in life that is functional, involves coordination of the full body. When you lift a box or a tv, you aren't curling it with your biceps. When you're pushing your broken down car, you aren't kicking it back with your triceps.

Lift smart, with lifts that utilize the strength of your body and the natural body mechanics. Machines, unfortunately, aren't nearly as good as free weights, and compound free weight movements are much more effective than isolation.

 

[Mar]

I think you may have gained 20 pounds from being so full of shit.

:lol

 

[squatingyeti]

I finally started back after having taken two years off (Serious motorcycle accident two years ago).

I've been out of this for a long time so I'm not sure on exactly what my future training regimen will look like but this is the tentative one I've worked up (And followed this week).

Monday (This is more of a light day for hitting areas that I used to overlook)

Dumbbell Flyes
Dumbbell Press
Overhead Dumbbell Press (I know there is a name for this but I don't recall exactly what it is so that's why I wrote down to remember)
Outward Dumbbell Extensions (Same deal; this is wear you hold the dumbbells at your side and raise your arms without bending your elbows).
Dumbbell Pullover
Lat Pulldown

Tuesday

Squat Rack
Leg Press
Row Machine
Deadlift

Wednesday

Dumbbell Curls
Preacher Curls
Dumbbell Kickbacks
Tricep Pushups (Not sure of the exact name of this one; I push the weight of my body up using my triceps)

Thursday

Rest

Friday

Dumbbell Press (Warmup)
Benchpress
Overhead Dumbbell Press
Lat Pulldown

I jog sporadically and do various types of sit-ups every night. My cardio needs serious work; I've never done anything with that before now.

If I'm missing out on something important in my schedule, please point it out. I'm a novice at training and I only did it in the past to gain a physique (I was never really strong, even at my best. I had a fantastic body but no real strength or endurance to speak of).

You should be doing core lifts more often. More than once a week. Somehow people have got into this "do all these different lifts on different days" spasm, that the most important lifts have been brushed aside. You will get stronger in a shorter time by focusing less on working out every day, and more on working groups of muscles. Remember, outside of the weight room, not too many movements are single muscle (unless you're lifting that beer to your mouth ). So, if reality tells you groups of muscles are needed for everything, then you should be working out that way. The other lifts should be secondary to your compound lifts.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Compound workouts. I was taught that workouts that people do that specifically focus on a certain muscle isn't the way to go (unless its a big problem area or your trying to sculpt your muscles in a specific way).

And I worked on my back Saturday morning, felt good.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Interesting opinions on origins/uses of split routines, by Mad Cow:

I'll go a step further and be flat out honest without holding back. This isn't directed at you by any means but it's a good long rant and an explantion that's a bit less PC than usual for me but might prove beneficial because I'll just lay it on the line and tell it like it is.

The typical split routines that have people training a bodypart once per week are - I would basically just recommend that everyone stop them right now and move on. They are so fundementally bad that it's not worth typing up an explanation for them - the whole reason why people arrived at this idea was because they didn't understand science and misapplied thinking that muscles needed to fully recover before training them again (look up the timeframe for complete tissue remodeling from a single bout of weight training - it's beyond a month as I recall but in any event it is far far longer than any of these splits allows for). These splits are a major reason why most people in the gym are spinning their wheels.

The other major issue is that most guys put together their split, choose exercises, and then just go in the gym and work hard at it (and some don't even do that) - even using the 5x5 exercises and split as laid out under the 3 day protocol that I recommend (basically the best exercises and a solid frequency pattern) there is a major issue that will inhibit gains. The issue is that volume and intensity are not being regulated over a period to provide a training stimulus - this is the essence of loading/deloading and managing volume under dual factor theory which I will say again is at the near universal acceptance level everywhere in the world at the highest levels of research and athletic coaching but curiously most BBers couldn't give and explanation should their life depend on it.

For a novice lifter this isn't a big deal, for an experienced lifter - they just won't progress or at least no where close to optimally and once they get past a point even that progress will stop. Basically, the only way an experienced lifter is going to get gains is to use drugs and create an environment where just about any stimulus will work because the body's response is so exagerated. That said, even the drugged lifter would progress much faster (or could use a lower dosage and achieve the same results) under a proper program.

Look at the pority of Needsize's 5x5 program. It uses good exercises albeit the 3 day split is present but the whole key is the progressive overload and systematically adding weight thereby increasing total volume. Also notice that stepping back and beginning again serves to deload. This is why people have success with it. There is no magic, it's basically just a rough form of dual factor training that he arrived at by paying attention to what worked over a period of time. If more people were applying some brain power basic training methodology wouldn't be so foreign.

It kills me that the majority of the BBing/fitness world is so advanced when it comes to drug usage and diet yet so far behind when it comes to training. Yes I've had training conversations with multiple pros and worked for months right next to a guy who got his pro card just a few months later - he was unfit to coach a highschool team, his PT clients made for progress, his training was no better or more intense than many others at the gym 1/2 his size - his diet/dedication was admirable but if not for the drugs he'd be just another shmoe around the gym wondering why he's plateaued. He's not an exception to the rule either, anyone who knows training and watches the vast majority of Pro BBers train knows they don't know anything in about 10 minutes and usually much faster. If they open their mouths on the subject it's nearly instantaneous. , look at the 1980's BBers training on nearly all machines and not squatting or DLing. They looked marvelous, way better than in the previous decade yet the training stimuli was garbage in comparison - the only difference were the dosages.

EDIT: Okay, I do give props to Chris Duffy (pro back in the early 1990's for getting people to DL again by speaking out a lot on its effectiveness).

BBing is almost totally focused on optimizing and increasing the response (drugs/diet) rather than ensuring that the highest quality stimulus (training) is applied. This is why kids and men get frustrated after tweaking their diets and taking all kinds of supplements yet getting little gains - they look at the programs some of the big guys are using and their's are not much different so they look to drugs and make some post like "I'm plateaued at 6' 185lbs after 2 years of training, diet and training are perfect, help me plan a cycle." I'm certainly not going to judge someone for using steroids and I myself have used them but a lot of younger guys just want to see some progress, they may want 20lbs but if they were at least progressing consistently they'd have more patience and likely wouldn't be as quick to involve themselves in activities that could cause major issues in their lives down the road. Some will certainly still use drugs but I'd venture the proportion would be quite a bit less and hopefully those who have aspirations beyond what natural training can provide.

The issue is that good training informaiton is simply not common and seems almost hidden. Most guys at Elite can probably tell you a ton about drugs/diet but ask them to explain dual factor theory or name a good book on training (hint: Arnold has not written one) and they are going to be lost - and that's simply an unacceptable imbalance to my mind. I don't know how training knowledge got obscured and glossed over for a few decades (I imagine the Nautilus machine , the near extinction of Olympic Lifting, and the white washed clean faux image of BBing that Weider has promoted to death over the years) but I'm a bit tired of honest people looking for training info and finding voodoo bull rather than basic fundemental information - I'm not even talking cutting edge here just basic training applied around the world.

So if you ever wonder what purpose I might have in taking the time to write out lengthy posts and fully explain training info and make it digestable and available, this is it. I'm not trying to change the world or clean up BBing but I'd like to see training knowledge in the general potion advanced to the point where someone can look for and actually find basic quality information that will allow them to progress. I make no money from this, my line of work is so removed from this it isn't even funny. When I see stuff like that printed in Flex, Muscle&Fitness, and Men's Health - I'll be happy and I bet there will be a lot more people making progress in the gym and enjoying the gratification that comes with laying out a plan and accruing results from solid execution.

Strong opinions, but valid nonetheless.

 

[Qwerty710710]

Sometimes I use a chair whenever I'm squatting just to go down only since I go on my tippy toes too much. But other than that everything is fine. Is that the right thing to do?

 

[Anton Sugar]

It can be okay and a decent cue for learning the proper depth (make sure the crease of your hip joint is going below your knee joint). However, if you're stopping at the bottom (resting ON the chair)...that's a fairly advanced technique and can lead to injury if misused. If you're just using it as a cue for depth, it could be alright I guess. I'd recommend other methods for fixing tippy-toes, though. What sort of shoes do you wear?

 

[beelzebozo]

more articles from my casual internet surfing:

aol body's list of fitness myths, now debunked

"Myth 5: Lose before lifting. Actually, if you're truly serious about losing weight, lifting weights two to three times a week is a must. "Building muscle helps maintain your metabolism even while you're resting and will help you slim down," Wyche notes. When you combine diet with cardio exercise only, you tend to lose a lot of muscle mass; weight training helps preserve muscle so more of your weight loss is truly from fat.

Myth 8: Beef up to gain muscle. "The body uses protein, carbs and fat to build muscle," Wyche notes. Any excess protein you eat beyond what your body needs will simply be expelled through your urine or stored as body fat. Your best bet is to eat a balanced diet that includes a variety of vitamins and minerals and enough calories to build strong, shapely muscles."

eeeenteresting.

 

[BlueTsunami]

The whole "Weight lifting doesn't help with weight loss" is pretty bunk

My face has already thinned out and I attribute it to eating a little more healthier and working out 3 times a week (for 1 1/2 to 2 hours) for a month now. I'm thining out too.

 

[squatingyeti]

The whole "Weight lifting doesn't help with weight loss" is pretty bunk

My face has already thinned out and I attribute it to eating a little more healthier and working out 3 times a week (for 1 1/2 to 2 hours) for a month now. I'm thining out too.

Yeah, they don't get it. I wrestled all the way through college, and I'm sure everyone knows we were all about weight loss and control. We still lifted 3 times a week, just changed from growth, to definition and stamina of the muscles. By lifting, we didn't put on weight, but helped control our weight.

 

[Anton Sugar]

more articles from my casual internet surfing:

aol body's list of fitness myths, now debunked

"Myth 5: Lose before lifting. Actually, if you're truly serious about losing weight, lifting weights two to three times a week is a must. "Building muscle helps maintain your metabolism even while you're resting and will help you slim down," Wyche notes. When you combine diet with cardio exercise only, you tend to lose a lot of muscle mass; weight training helps preserve muscle so more of your weight loss is truly from fat.

Myth 8: Beef up to gain muscle. "The body uses protein, carbs and fat to build muscle," Wyche notes. Any excess protein you eat beyond what your body needs will simply be expelled through your urine or stored as body fat. Your best bet is to eat a balanced diet that includes a variety of vitamins and minerals and enough calories to build strong, shapely muscles."

eeeenteresting.

But they also don't state what your protein needs are. Athlete's bodies need considerably more nutrients than the average inactive Joe.

 

[Captain Glanton]

more articles from my casual internet surfing:

aol body's list of fitness myths, now debunked


Myth 8: Beef up to gain muscle. "The body uses protein, carbs and fat to build muscle," Wyche notes. Any excess protein you eat beyond what your body needs will simply be expelled through your urine or stored as body fat. Your best bet is to eat a balanced diet that includes a variety of vitamins and minerals and enough calories to build strong, shapely muscles."

It's true that your body can only absorb a certain amount of protein in one meal, and that only in 2-3 hour increments. So, there's only so much protein that you can absorb in one day. Although the industry standard of 30 grams per meal is a good rule of thumb, it's not possible to know what your individual limit is. Everyone has their max, but most people [Edit: by "most people" I mean people reading this thread and looking to exercise hard several times a week] are far from it and need to be worried about eating too little protein and not too much. I'd also substitute "whole wheat carbs" for "carbs" above. The source is right, though, that just eating beef all day isn't the way to go about it.

People need to be sure to read the long quote Mr. Snrub posted above. Good stuff there.

 

[WickedAngel]

Unfortunately, this seems to be the norm, not the exception.

You need more compound, full body movements. You need to squat or deadlift more. I hope by "Squat Rack" you don't mean the smith machine/"on rails" squat movements.

Think of it like this:
Your body is not a collection of parts. Everything in life that is functional, involves coordination of the full body. When you lift a box or a tv, you aren't curling it with your biceps. When you're pushing your broken down car, you aren't kicking it back with your triceps.

Lift smart, with lifts that utilize the strength of your body and the natural body mechanics. Machines, unfortunately, aren't nearly as good as free weights, and compound free weight movements are much more effective than isolation.

I'm not talking about a smith machine; the weight is on a bar that rests at shoulder height. There are extensions further down in case you are losing the weight and falling forward but all the weight and balance is up to you.

Should the single-muscle exercises be scrapped altogether or simply scaled back to make room for the compound lifts?

 

[Anton Sugar]

Okay, sounds like you're describing a standard power rack. Excellent.

I'd scrap isolation altogether until you get some size and strength onto you. By size, I mean a pretty muscular frame, at the point where you can start worrying about your "biceps peaks" and "upper pecs".

 

[WickedAngel]

Okay, sounds like you're describing a standard power rack. Excellent.

I'd scrap isolation altogether until you get some size and strength onto you. By size, I mean a pretty muscular frame, at the point where you can start worrying about your "biceps peaks" and "upper pecs".

I appreciate the info.

Where does upper body strength fit into the equation? Is the bench press too muscle specific? I'm also trying to get a sense of how often to do these compound exercises. Should squats, deadlifts, and the like be done on different days or should they all be done on the same day with a couple of days of rest in between?

 

[Captain Glanton]

I appreciate the info.

Where does upper body strength fit into the equation? Is the bench press too muscle specific? I'm also trying to get a sense of how often to do these compound exercises. Should squats, deadlifts, and the like be done on different days or should they all be done on the same day with a couple of days of rest in between?

I try to do one 'big' lift per day: squat, deadlift, heavy barbell rows, overhead and flat bench presses.

Many people use the flat bench at the big measure of strength. You don't want to fall into that trap, but it can be a good barometer. 2X your bodyweight is a good benchmark for being strong. I'd rather use overhead press to measure pressing strength; 1.3X your bodyweight might be a good target for being strong.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Buy Basic Barbell Training. Between that and Practical Programming, it's everything you need.

Basically, squat three times a week. Bench press is good in that it is the strongest pressing movement you can do, but pressing while standing up is better in many ways. Do both.

 

[Nolan.]

Ok, haven't posted in this thread in a while. I got one of the books someone mentioned and I have to say I think it's pretty good, I even recognise some stuff in it from when I was doing As/A level P.E. Anyway iv'e been dipping in and out of my routines but i'm starting over properly now, so hope I gain a bit of muscle mass soon.

 

[beelzebozo]

i've determined my workouts have been retarded for the past three months, and i'm switching it up.

 

[BlueTsunami]

I tried doing Squats but my left knee keeps clicking, so I was advised to stop by my mates. :/

I'm trying to see what angle would be best (to stop it) but I may have to refrain from doing squats all together. Any advice?

 

[perryfarrell]

I tried doing Squats but my left knee keeps clicking, so I was advised to stop by my mates. :/

I'm trying to see what angle would be best (to stop it) but I may have to refrain from doing squats all together. Any advice?

Clicking isn't a problem if it doesn't hurt. Go to Youtube and look for SquatRx videos. There are about 15 videos of ten minutes each on the squat--really informative.

Some pointers:
- The weight should be on your heels, not your toes
- Feet pointing outward at an angle of around 30-45%
- Keep back arched (all the way to the lowest point--very important). Don't overdo the arch however
- Keep shoulders and back tense during movement. Squeeze your glutes
- Knees outward, thighs in line with direction of feet
- Drive the hip when moving upward, your back angle (the slant of your back) should remain constant when moving up initially
- The posterior chain should be activated on the way up (glutes, hamstrings, lower back)
- At the lowest point, your knees should not be too far in front of your toes

Edit: typos

 

[BlueTsunami]

Thanks PerryFarrell!

Yeah, I was worried about it too but it wasn't causing any pain though so I guess I'm good. I just asked about it on this end and I was told to basically wrap the knee up to keep the joint in place.

Definitely going to do Squats next time then

 

[perryfarrell]

Get 1g per pound of bodyweight with protein, or more. I eat about 3000 calories a day, minimum, and I am very familiar with my body and how it works, so I know how much fat I am able to consume (healthy fat) and still stay fairly leave. If you want to gain more, eat even more. A lot of it depends on your bodyweight--how much do you weigh?

I'm 6'4" at around 185. 8% bodyfat. I'm monitoring my current calorie intake with Fitday and try to eat over 3000 calories a day, and try to eat 1 gr of protein per pound of bodyweight. I'm shooting for a ratio of 40-30-30 (carbs, protein, fat). I'll see where this takes me.

 

[WickedAngel]

I try to do one 'big' lift per day: squat, deadlift, heavy barbell rows, overhead and flat bench presses.

Many people use the flat bench at the big measure of strength. You don't want to fall into that trap, but it can be a good barometer. 2X your bodyweight is a good benchmark for being strong. I'd rather use overhead press to measure pressing strength; 1.3X your bodyweight might be a good target for being strong.

It'll be a long time before I get anywhere close to that. I've never even been able to do my bodyweight, let alone 2x it. I've never trained like I was supposed to (Didn't know until now) and it appears that the vast majority of the time I spent in the gym beforehand will only have served to familiarize me with the environment and machinery.

I don't really weigh that much. When I was in my best shape (Which wasn't really great in terms of strength), I was 160lbs. I'm 180lbs now, starting out.

*Edit*

Holy mother of Christ...

I tried the "new" (Old to you guys) way tonight of doing exercises that I used to not do. I started off with the old (Benchpress) and did the new (Deadlifts) afterwards. It's going to be a while before I have enough strength/endurance to do much else after the deadlift; I did 4 sets of 8 reps (Varying weights between 120, my starting point, and 155, where I felt I was going to risk form if I continued to add weight).

How long do your workouts usually last? I did the same thing for the benchpress (4 sets of 8 reps with 20 seconds of rest between each set); at the end of the 4th set of deadlifts, I was dog tired. My entire workout only lasted ~25 minutes.

I think I'm going to wait a few weeks on the Power Clean. It doesn't look beginner-friendly and I think I need to study the technique a bit more before I charge into that.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Interesting opinions on origins/uses of split routines, by Mad Cow:



Strong opinions, but valid nonetheless.

Interesting do you by any chance have a link?

 

[perryfarrell]

Interesting do you by any chance have a link?

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/index.htm

 

[demon]

I try deadlifts every now and then...did them every week for about a month or so last fall...but I tend to get a pain in my very lower back, I think my spine, the day or two after doing them. I can't imagine that's a good sign, so I'm just gonna give up on that.

 

[WickedAngel]

I try deadlifts every now and then...did them every week for about a month or so last fall...but I tend to get a pain in my very lower back, I think my spine, the day or two after doing them. I can't imagine that's a good sign, so I'm just gonna give up on that.

You're not arching your back outward, are you? I don't even think you're supposed to start using your back until you're 80% of the way up (Not until the weight is towards the middle of your thighs and you start to drive out with your hips) Did you stretch before you did the exercise?

Glanton, perry, or Mr. Snrub will likely know for sure.

I haven't been doing this exercise for long but what I've gathered so far is that it's extremely dangerous if the technique isn't spot-on.

 

[perryfarrell]

I try deadlifts every now and then...did them every week for about a month or so last fall...but I tend to get a pain in my very lower back, I think my spine, the day or two after doing them. I can't imagine that's a good sign, so I'm just gonna give up on that.

I have the same problem. I've only tried them a few times, not with too much success.

Here's an article by Rippetoe on the lift (PDF).

To parrot some of his tips from the book Starting Strength:

- First straighten legs, then open up hip angle
- Don't sit too deep (knee angle around 90?)
- Shoulders should be out in front of bar; shoulder blades should be exactly above bar
- Important: hip angle shouldn't close when upward movement starts (this results in quads not doing any work)
- Keep lower back arched and tensed. No rounded back!
- Straighten back when bar is past knees
- Keep shoulders backwards throughout movement, not up.

Keep in mind I'm only parrotting here. I have very limited experience with the exercise myself.

 

[Captain Glanton]

I try deadlifts every now and then...did them every week for about a month or so last fall...but I tend to get a pain in my very lower back, I think my spine, the day or two after doing them. I can't imagine that's a good sign, so I'm just gonna give up on that.

My deadlift technique is laid out in the OP; I think I get lower and sit farther back than Rippetoe suggests, and that I'm using more leg drive and less back than most do. But if you feel any back trouble you need to be very, very careful. About two years ago I rounded my back while DLing, pulled a muscle in my lower back, and it's never healed right. It was even numb/tingley today after that squat routine I did last night.

I'd suspect that your pain is in the erectors alongside your backbone and not in your spine itself. If you think that the pain is neural, not muscular [after a while of doing this stuff, you learn to distinguish between the two], get thee to a physician.

 

[WickedAngel]

So I've redone my schedule after having dragged my tired ass back in here from the weight room.

Monday

Deadlift
Benchpress
Arnold Press

Tuesday

Barbell Squats
Pullups (Wide Grip)
Dips
Leg Press
Rows

Wednesday

I'm not sure if I want to take this day off or not...I might do cardio here since I can't do it every day.

Thursday

Deadlift
Benchpress
Arnold Press

Friday

Barbell Squats
Pullups (Close Grip)
Dips
Leg Press
Rows

I'm going to try this routine for a while and see how it works out. A lot of these are compound exercises (From what I understand)...I might reintegrate isolation exercises to complement these compound exercises down the road but I'll let them go until I feel that I've made serious progress (Perhaps when I can press my own bodyweight, which I've never been able to do).

My deadlift technique is laid out in the OP; I think I get lower and sit farther back than Rippetoe suggests, and that I'm using more leg drive and less back than most do. But if you feel any back trouble you need to be very, very careful. About two years ago I rounded my back while DLing, pulled a muscle in my lower back, and it's never healed right. It was even numb/tingley today after that squat routine I did last night.

I'd suspect that your pain is in the erectors alongside your backbone and not in your spine itself. If you think that the pain is neural, not muscular [after a while of doing this stuff, you learn to distinguish between the two], get thee to a physician.

What is your opinion on belts? Are there any reasons not to use them (IE, are they a crutch or do they make you more likely to hurt yourself in some other way?)

 

[Anton Sugar]

I tried doing Squats but my left knee keeps clicking, so I was advised to stop by my mates. :/

I'm trying to see what angle would be best (to stop it) but I may have to refrain from doing squats all together. Any advice?

I had the same problem up until a couple months ago. For me, I focused on pushing my knees outward during the movements. They weren't drifting inward dramatically, or at all, as far as I could tell, but pushing the knees outward (feel like you're pulling the floor apart with your feet) braces/stabilizes them.

 

[Anton Sugar]

It'll be a long time before I get anywhere close to that. I've never even been able to do my bodyweight, let alone 2x it. I've never trained like I was supposed to (Didn't know until now) and it appears that the vast majority of the time I spent in the gym beforehand will only have served to familiarize me with the environment and machinery.

I don't really weigh that much. When I was in my best shape (Which wasn't really great in terms of strength), I was 160lbs. I'm 180lbs now, starting out.

*Edit*

Holy mother of Christ...

I tried the "new" (Old to you guys) way tonight of doing exercises that I used to not do. I started off with the old (Benchpress) and did the new (Deadlifts) afterwards. It's going to be a while before I have enough strength/endurance to do much else after the deadlift; I did 4 sets of 8 reps (Varying weights between 120, my starting point, and 155, where I felt I was going to risk form if I continued to add weight).

How long do your workouts usually last? I did the same thing for the benchpress (4 sets of 8 reps with 20 seconds of rest between each set); at the end of the 4th set of deadlifts, I was dog tired. My entire workout only lasted ~25 minutes.

I think I'm going to wait a few weeks on the Power Clean. It doesn't look beginner-friendly and I think I need to study the technique a bit more before I charge into that.

Wicked, what are your goals? In general, deadlifts are best kept to lower reps (less than 6). Higher reps is advanced with ANY technical movement, as form breakdown increases with each rep.

Regardless, rest longer between sets! Especially with strength movements like deadlifts, UNLESS you have specific goals. But I have a firm believe in building a base of strength and then specializing, in which cases I'd have you do 5 sets of 5 reps for each exercise, with 2-5 minutes of rest between sets (2 for standard sets, up to 5 for the heavier ones). The routine I'm on right now is squat focused, so I only deadlift once a week, with ONE heavy set, but I am still making gains.

Deadlifts can and will kill you if you overdo them. Nothing else stimulates the nervous system like deadlifts do, and your nervous system isn't really something you want to fry.

Again, I recommend, wholeheartedly, the purchase of Basic Barbell Training. I refer to it several times per week.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I try deadlifts every now and then...did them every week for about a month or so last fall...but I tend to get a pain in my very lower back, I think my spine, the day or two after doing them. I can't imagine that's a good sign, so I'm just gonna give up on that.

Have you ever had any other injuries to your back in the past? Can you describe the pain and where it's located?

As was said, the first part of deadlifts from the knees below is really a quad dependent, pushing movement. Above the knees, the hips and hamstrings take over in straightening the body and lifting the bar. Do you feel any pain DURING the movement? The lower back is different from most muscle, though not altogether unique, in that it's purpose is stabilization, as opposed to the lengthening and shortening functionality of a muscle like your biceps. This is why you don't want to round your back too much (hyper flexion) or extend it too much (hyperextension)--it puts it in a position that it's not meant to be in. Regardless of your lower back's DIRECT involvement in many exercises, it is almost always stabilizing.

EDIT: Demon, one thing that you COULD try is what Mark Rippetoe actually used to get his deadlift up, without actually deadlifting. He would do halting deadlifts (from the start position up to the knees, then back again), and rack pulls (pulling the barbell from a position above the knees, up to full extension). He broke down the movements. You could try experimenting with these--if you're interested, let me know and I'll breakdown what Rip wrote in BBT.

 

[Anton Sugar]

So I've redone my schedule after having dragged my tired ass back in here from the weight room.

Monday

Deadlift
Benchpress
Arnold Press

Tuesday

Barbell Squats
Pullups (Wide Grip)
Dips
Leg Press
Rows

Wednesday

I'm not sure if I want to take this day off or not...I might do cardio here since I can't do it every day.

Thursday

Deadlift
Benchpress
Arnold Press

Friday

Barbell Squats
Pullups (Close Grip)
Dips
Leg Press
Rows

I'm going to try this routine for a while and see how it works out. A lot of these are compound exercises (From what I understand)...I might reintegrate isolation exercises to complement these compound exercises down the road but I'll let them go until I feel that I've made serious progress (Perhaps when I can press my own bodyweight, which I've never been able to do).

What is your opinion on belts? Are there any reasons not to use them (IE, are they a crutch or do they make you more likely to hurt yourself in some other way?)

WickedAngel,
You have the right idea but this may be a bit too much for someone new to these movements. PerryFarell linked MadCow up above a bit--if you read through that site, it would be the best thing you can do short of buying Basic Barbell Training. Read through it, and if you don't end up following a routine from there, I'd recommend this three day setup instead of your four day, which may be a bit too much. And since you're already describing yourself as tired, three days a week might be more comfortable than four:

Monday
Barbell Squats
Bench Press
Pull Ups
Arnold Press (if you feel like it)

Wednesday
Barbell Squats
Overhead Press
Deadlifts

Friday
Barbell Squats
Bench Press
Rows/Pull Ups

Worry about assistance movements when you feel like you're stalling, or have a good base built up. As you can see, Monday/Friday workouts are very similar, and you could set up a Week 1: ABA Week 2: BAB Week 3: ABA schedule for alternating the workouts.

Overhead press is very important. When people focus on bench press, they abuse/overuse the muscles of the shoulder girdle and your rotator cuff gets no work. Overhead press works the shoulder through a complete motion and the rotator cuff gets stronger through stabilization.

IF you work the shit out of this program, and eat a lot, you'll make pretty damned good gains. It SOUNDS ridiculous, but on a similar program, Rippetoe would typically put 30-40 pounds of muscle on newbies in about 6 months, with their lifts increasing just as impressively. The key is sticking to the program, working hard, and EATING. Your body will NOT recover properly if you don't eat.

Re: belts. Don't use them unless you NEED to. For your last set, if you need to use it. Or if you have an injury.

 

[Captain Glanton]

My opinion on belts is that you should be wearing them when you get to a certain weight. It varies from person to person, but those still working up to deadlifting and squatting above their bodyweight are probably a ways from it.

 

[Oichi]

I'm coming off a high ankle sprain, so I plan on returning to the gym next week (my ankle is still ginger, so I'm not risking anything this week). Any exercises you guys can recommend for easing my ankle back into the swing of things? My first thought is to do some cycling with light resistance for about 10 - 15 minutes and maybe some squats (not deep) without any weights.

 

[Nemo]

Little question about stretch marks. I'm afraid of lifting to much since I developed those marks around my chest. What is the best way to avoid them? How do bodybuilders do it?

 

[Brendonia]

To the more experienced lifters, do you have any experience with wave loading? I'm about to start a strength gaining program where you do a set of 6, then load up to a max set of 1, back to 6 where you're supposed to do more than your first set of 6, then back down to 1 doing more than your original set of 1. Then you do a couple more sets at high reps, like 8-10. This is for compound exercises like barbell bench press, barbell rows, squats, and deadlifts. The rest of the workouts are not done in this way but these main exercises are (each one is on a different day in the cycle, so squats are in workout A, bench in workout B, etc.). Does anyone have experience with doing these and if they actually work? If not it seems like it's kind of a pain to load and unload so much weight if it's more useful to just do the typical 5x5 sets with the same exercises. Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Never heard of it in that essence. Do you have a link to where you found this? This "wave loading" is all done within one workout? Like this:

225x6
230x5
235x4
240x3
245x2
250x1
245x2
240x3
235x4
230x5
230x6
235x5
240x4
245x3
250x2
255x1

Like that? If so...I've never heard of it. What's its purpose?

Now, wave loading as far as periodization, I've heard of. For instance, three workouts a week, for a previous Deadlift 5RM of 340:

Week 1
Workout 1
Deadlift 250x5
Workout 2
Deadlift 260x5
Workout 3
Deadlift 270x5

Week 2
Workout 1
Deadlift 280x5
Workout 2
Deadlift 290x5
Workout 3
Deadlift 300x5

Week 3
Workout 1
Deadlift 310x5
Workout 2
Deadlift 320x5
Workout 3
Deadlift 330x5

Week 4
Workout 1
Deadlift 340x5
Workout 2
Deadlift 350x5-PR
Workout 3
Deadlift 360x5-PR

Then cycle back down to week 2, then cycle up again.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/index.htm

Cool man thanks for the post.

I have found that as long as you switch your routine up fairly regularly you are going to make gains.
This is of course if you are eating properly.

I have pretty much consistantly done Arnolds supersetting routine but only one body part a week instead of his
insane split schedule. By varying that to constantly and really switching it up I have made gains year after year simply by adding how many calories / protein I am taking every day.

Through the years I also strongly believe that there is no "one" workout program that will work for everyone. Me and my brother did the same routines for years together and I made tremendous gains but he didnt change at all and he was on a much higher calorie diet than me.

Now he does a completely different workout with a lot of the principle exercises done differently and he is gaining constantly.

Working out is as much about figuring out what your own body needs as well as educating yourself on what other people do.

 

[Brendonia]

Never heard of it in that essence. Do you have a link to where you found this? This "wave loading" is all done within one workout? Like this:

225x6
230x5
235x4
240x3
245x2
250x1
245x2
240x3
235x4
230x5
230x6
235x5
240x4
245x3
250x2
255x1

Like that? If so...I've never heard of it. What's its purpose?

Now, wave loading as far as periodization, I've heard of. For instance, three workouts a week, for a previous Deadlift 5RM of 340:

Week 1
Workout 1
Deadlift 250x5
Workout 2
Deadlift 260x5
Workout 3
Deadlift 270x5

Week 2
Workout 1
Deadlift 280x5
Workout 2
Deadlift 290x5
Workout 3
Deadlift 300x5

Week 3
Workout 1
Deadlift 310x5
Workout 2
Deadlift 320x5
Workout 3
Deadlift 330x5

Week 4
Workout 1
Deadlift 340x5
Workout 2
Deadlift 350x5-PR
Workout 3
Deadlift 360x5-PR

Then cycle back down to week 2, then cycle up again.

I don't have a link because I read it in New Rules of Lifting by Lou Schuler and Alwyn Cosgrove. The routines in this book have worked well for me the past 4-5 months or so and this was the next one I was going to go to, which is a "strength building" workout as opposed to others in the book that are for hypertrophy or fat burning.

The way they describe wave loading was to do a normal set of 6 reps, then go straight to a 1 rep max set, back to the 6 reps, then to another 1 rep. It doesn't go sequentially down it just goes from 6 to 1 and back again. I'm definitely not as informed as you are in this subject but I'd say I'm an intermediate experienced lifter and have never encountered this. Just wondered any of your thoughts.

Thanks.

 

[Sandman7]

I am currently 165 pounds, 14% body fat and 5'11''. For about 18 months now, I have been weight training 6 times a week and have martial arts classes once or twice a week so I am in a lot better shape than I was 18 months ago.

Two questions for the gurus in the thread:

1. Is there anything extra I should be doing/not doing, eating/not eating to get my fat down? I am happy with my weight it is just the remaining fat around my abdomen that is annoying me.

2. I have worked out through analsying my weight and fat losses that not all of my reduction in weight has been fat. I am pretty sure it isnt muscle loss (since I dont perceive any difficulty in lifting weights) but if all the weight loss is not fat loss, where does the extra weight loss come from?

And good luck to everyone trying to whip their asses into shape!

 

[Struct09]

I am currently 165 pounds, 14% body fat and 5'11''. For about 18 months now, I have been weight training 6 times a week and have martial arts classes once or twice a week so I am in a lot better shape than I was 18 months ago.

Two questions for the gurus in the thread:

1. Is there anything extra I should be doing/not doing, eating/not eating to get my fat down? I am happy with my weight it is just the remaining fat around my abdomen that is annoying me.

2. I have worked out through analsying my weight and fat losses that not all of my reduction in weight has been fat. I am pretty sure it isnt muscle loss (since I dont perceive any difficulty in lifting weights) but if all the weight loss is not fat loss, where does the extra weight loss come from?

And good luck to everyone trying to whip their asses into shape!

1. If you're still losing weight, keep doing what you're doing. If you've hit a stand still, look into techniques such as carb cycling. At 5'11" and 165, you probably don't want/need to lose much more.

2. When you first start losing weight, you typically lose a good amount in water and glycogen.

 

[Captain Glanton]

Wave Loading
A friend of mine did it from time to time. I think the theory is that you can handle heavier weight and acclimate your body to that heavy weight by throwing in that single between your sets in the normal rep range. I can see why people would use it, and I think there's value in trying it if you feel like your overall strength levels have stagnated. It's not something I use, though.

Cool man thanks for the post.


Working out is as much about figuring out what your own body needs as well as educating yourself on what other people do.

Frankly, if this thread just gets more people to exercise regularly and eat healthy food [lean meat, fruits, and vegetables instead of pre-cooked or fast food], then it's served its purpose. And 75% of the battle is to get people pushing themselves as hard as they can in regular workouts at the gym/track/etc and eating as much healthy food as possible. The rest is details.