Well, we made it to 20 pages without that bullshit. I consider it a victory.Chichikov said:I think you may have gained 20 pounds from being so full of shit.
You want to lose weight and get into shape, drop the BS and get serious.
If you want to talk juvenile random crap on the internet, may I suggest you pick another thread?
Everyone with shoulder problems, I've put a few pointers in the top of the OP.Gildor said:Can you give more details on shoulder exercises you use to rehab your rotator cuff. I injured mine somehow and after a while thought it was fully healed. It wasn't and I re-injured it. It's a nagging injury and I don't want to be stuck with it forever. I want to be able to play tennis and disc golf again.
Chichikov said:I think you may have gained 20 pounds from being so full of shit.
You want to lose weight and get into shape, drop the BS and get serious.
If you want to talk juvenile random crap on the internet, may I suggest you pick another thread?
perryfarrell said:I have a few questions for the knowledgeable people here.
First of all, I'm interested in improving my anaerobic fitness level with an exercise that's also good cardio (i.e. an exercise that promotes heart health). But I don't want this exercise too burn too many calories, and I also don't want this exercise to interfere with muscle growth. Any tips? Maybe intervals?
Second of all, I have a question about diet. I'm currently lifting weights to gain strength, and I've finally started looking at my diet. My past diet appears to have been very carb-heavy (but it never made me gain fat), so I'm adding protein. I'm at 3000 calories a day roughly. (I think I'm an ectomorphic bodytype: lean even with big carb intake, good aerobic abilities.)
What is a good ratio for calories from protein to calories from carbs to calories from fat?
WickedAngel said:I finally started back after having taken two years off (Serious motorcycle accident two years ago).
I've been out of this for a long time so I'm not sure on exactly what my future training regimen will look like but this is the tentative one I've worked up (And followed this week).
Monday (This is more of a light day for hitting areas that I used to overlook)
Dumbbell Flyes
Dumbbell Press
Overhead Dumbbell Press (I know there is a name for this but I don't recall exactly what it is so that's why I wrote down to remember)
Outward Dumbbell Extensions (Same deal; this is wear you hold the dumbbells at your side and raise your arms without bending your elbows).
Dumbbell Pullover
Lat Pulldown
Tuesday
Squat Rack
Leg Press
Row Machine
Deadlift
Wednesday
Dumbbell Curls
Preacher Curls
Dumbbell Kickbacks
Tricep Pushups (Not sure of the exact name of this one; I push the weight of my body up using my triceps)
Thursday
Rest
Friday
Dumbbell Press (Warmup)
Benchpress
Overhead Dumbbell Press
Lat Pulldown
I jog sporadically and do various types of sit-ups every night. My cardio needs serious work; I've never done anything with that before now.
If I'm missing out on something important in my schedule, please point it out. I'm a novice at training and I only did it in the past to gain a physique (I was never really strong, even at my best. I had a fantastic body but no real strength or endurance to speak of).
Chichikov said:I think you may have gained 20 pounds from being so full of shit.
WickedAngel said:I finally started back after having taken two years off (Serious motorcycle accident two years ago).
I've been out of this for a long time so I'm not sure on exactly what my future training regimen will look like but this is the tentative one I've worked up (And followed this week).
Monday (This is more of a light day for hitting areas that I used to overlook)
Dumbbell Flyes
Dumbbell Press
Overhead Dumbbell Press (I know there is a name for this but I don't recall exactly what it is so that's why I wrote down to remember)
Outward Dumbbell Extensions (Same deal; this is wear you hold the dumbbells at your side and raise your arms without bending your elbows).
Dumbbell Pullover
Lat Pulldown
Tuesday
Squat Rack
Leg Press
Row Machine
Deadlift
Wednesday
Dumbbell Curls
Preacher Curls
Dumbbell Kickbacks
Tricep Pushups (Not sure of the exact name of this one; I push the weight of my body up using my triceps)
Thursday
Rest
Friday
Dumbbell Press (Warmup)
Benchpress
Overhead Dumbbell Press
Lat Pulldown
I jog sporadically and do various types of sit-ups every night. My cardio needs serious work; I've never done anything with that before now.
If I'm missing out on something important in my schedule, please point it out. I'm a novice at training and I only did it in the past to gain a physique (I was never really strong, even at my best. I had a fantastic body but no real strength or endurance to speak of).
I'll go a step further and be flat out honest without holding back. This isn't directed at you by any means but it's a good long rant and an explantion that's a bit less PC than usual for me but might prove beneficial because I'll just lay it on the line and tell it like it is.
The typical split routines that have people training a bodypart once per week are - I would basically just recommend that everyone stop them right now and move on. They are so fundementally bad that it's not worth typing up an explanation for them - the whole reason why people arrived at this idea was because they didn't understand science and misapplied thinking that muscles needed to fully recover before training them again (look up the timeframe for complete tissue remodeling from a single bout of weight training - it's beyond a month as I recall but in any event it is far far longer than any of these splits allows for). These splits are a major reason why most people in the gym are spinning their wheels.
The other major issue is that most guys put together their split, choose exercises, and then just go in the gym and work hard at it (and some don't even do that) - even using the 5x5 exercises and split as laid out under the 3 day protocol that I recommend (basically the best exercises and a solid frequency pattern) there is a major issue that will inhibit gains. The issue is that volume and intensity are not being regulated over a period to provide a training stimulus - this is the essence of loading/deloading and managing volume under dual factor theory which I will say again is at the near universal acceptance level everywhere in the world at the highest levels of research and athletic coaching but curiously most BBers couldn't give and explanation should their life depend on it.
For a novice lifter this isn't a big deal, for an experienced lifter - they just won't progress or at least no where close to optimally and once they get past a point even that progress will stop. Basically, the only way an experienced lifter is going to get gains is to use drugs and create an environment where just about any stimulus will work because the body's response is so exagerated. That said, even the drugged lifter would progress much faster (or could use a lower dosage and achieve the same results) under a proper program.
Look at the pority of Needsize's 5x5 program. It uses good exercises albeit the 3 day split is present but the whole key is the progressive overload and systematically adding weight thereby increasing total volume. Also notice that stepping back and beginning again serves to deload. This is why people have success with it. There is no magic, it's basically just a rough form of dual factor training that he arrived at by paying attention to what worked over a period of time. If more people were applying some brain power basic training methodology wouldn't be so foreign.
It kills me that the majority of the BBing/fitness world is so advanced when it comes to drug usage and diet yet so far behind when it comes to training. Yes I've had training conversations with multiple pros and worked for months right next to a guy who got his pro card just a few months later - he was unfit to coach a highschool team, his PT clients made for progress, his training was no better or more intense than many others at the gym 1/2 his size - his diet/dedication was admirable but if not for the drugs he'd be just another shmoe around the gym wondering why he's plateaued. He's not an exception to the rule either, anyone who knows training and watches the vast majority of Pro BBers train knows they don't know anything in about 10 minutes and usually much faster. If they open their mouths on the subject it's nearly instantaneous. , look at the 1980's BBers training on nearly all machines and not squatting or DLing. They looked marvelous, way better than in the previous decade yet the training stimuli was garbage in comparison - the only difference were the dosages.
EDIT: Okay, I do give props to Chris Duffy (pro back in the early 1990's for getting people to DL again by speaking out a lot on its effectiveness).
BBing is almost totally focused on optimizing and increasing the response (drugs/diet) rather than ensuring that the highest quality stimulus (training) is applied. This is why kids and men get frustrated after tweaking their diets and taking all kinds of supplements yet getting little gains - they look at the programs some of the big guys are using and their's are not much different so they look to drugs and make some post like "I'm plateaued at 6' 185lbs after 2 years of training, diet and training are perfect, help me plan a cycle." I'm certainly not going to judge someone for using steroids and I myself have used them but a lot of younger guys just want to see some progress, they may want 20lbs but if they were at least progressing consistently they'd have more patience and likely wouldn't be as quick to involve themselves in activities that could cause major issues in their lives down the road. Some will certainly still use drugs but I'd venture the proportion would be quite a bit less and hopefully those who have aspirations beyond what natural training can provide.
The issue is that good training informaiton is simply not common and seems almost hidden. Most guys at Elite can probably tell you a ton about drugs/diet but ask them to explain dual factor theory or name a good book on training (hint: Arnold has not written one) and they are going to be lost - and that's simply an unacceptable imbalance to my mind. I don't know how training knowledge got obscured and glossed over for a few decades (I imagine the Nautilus machine , the near extinction of Olympic Lifting, and the white washed clean faux image of BBing that Weider has promoted to death over the years) but I'm a bit tired of honest people looking for training info and finding voodoo bull rather than basic fundemental information - I'm not even talking cutting edge here just basic training applied around the world.
So if you ever wonder what purpose I might have in taking the time to write out lengthy posts and fully explain training info and make it digestable and available, this is it. I'm not trying to change the world or clean up BBing but I'd like to see training knowledge in the general potion advanced to the point where someone can look for and actually find basic quality information that will allow them to progress. I make no money from this, my line of work is so removed from this it isn't even funny. When I see stuff like that printed in Flex, Muscle&Fitness, and Men's Health - I'll be happy and I bet there will be a lot more people making progress in the gym and enjoying the gratification that comes with laying out a plan and accruing results from solid execution.
BlueTsunami said:The whole "Weight lifting doesn't help with weight loss" is pretty bunk
My face has already thinned out and I attribute it to eating a little more healthier and working out 3 times a week (for 1 1/2 to 2 hours) for a month now. I'm thining out too.
beelzebozo said:more articles from my casual internet surfing:
aol body's list of fitness myths, now debunked
"Myth 5: Lose before lifting. Actually, if you're truly serious about losing weight, lifting weights two to three times a week is a must. "Building muscle helps maintain your metabolism even while you're resting and will help you slim down," Wyche notes. When you combine diet with cardio exercise only, you tend to lose a lot of muscle mass; weight training helps preserve muscle so more of your weight loss is truly from fat.
Myth 8: Beef up to gain muscle. "The body uses protein, carbs and fat to build muscle," Wyche notes. Any excess protein you eat beyond what your body needs will simply be expelled through your urine or stored as body fat. Your best bet is to eat a balanced diet that includes a variety of vitamins and minerals and enough calories to build strong, shapely muscles."
eeeenteresting.
beelzebozo said:more articles from my casual internet surfing:
aol body's list of fitness myths, now debunked
Myth 8: Beef up to gain muscle. "The body uses protein, carbs and fat to build muscle," Wyche notes. Any excess protein you eat beyond what your body needs will simply be expelled through your urine or stored as body fat. Your best bet is to eat a balanced diet that includes a variety of vitamins and minerals and enough calories to build strong, shapely muscles."
Mr. Snrub said:Unfortunately, this seems to be the norm, not the exception.
You need more compound, full body movements. You need to squat or deadlift more. I hope by "Squat Rack" you don't mean the smith machine/"on rails" squat movements.
Think of it like this:
Your body is not a collection of parts. Everything in life that is functional, involves coordination of the full body. When you lift a box or a tv, you aren't curling it with your biceps. When you're pushing your broken down car, you aren't kicking it back with your triceps.
Lift smart, with lifts that utilize the strength of your body and the natural body mechanics. Machines, unfortunately, aren't nearly as good as free weights, and compound free weight movements are much more effective than isolation.
Mr. Snrub said:Okay, sounds like you're describing a standard power rack. Excellent.
I'd scrap isolation altogether until you get some size and strength onto you. By size, I mean a pretty muscular frame, at the point where you can start worrying about your "biceps peaks" and "upper pecs".
I try to do one 'big' lift per day: squat, deadlift, heavy barbell rows, overhead and flat bench presses.WickedAngel said:I appreciate the info.
Where does upper body strength fit into the equation? Is the bench press too muscle specific? I'm also trying to get a sense of how often to do these compound exercises. Should squats, deadlifts, and the like be done on different days or should they all be done on the same day with a couple of days of rest in between?
BlueTsunami said:I tried doing Squats but my left knee keeps clicking, so I was advised to stop by my mates. :/
I'm trying to see what angle would be best (to stop it) but I may have to refrain from doing squats all together. Any advice?
Mr. Snrub said:Get 1g per pound of bodyweight with protein, or more. I eat about 3000 calories a day, minimum, and I am very familiar with my body and how it works, so I know how much fat I am able to consume (healthy fat) and still stay fairly leave. If you want to gain more, eat even more. A lot of it depends on your bodyweight--how much do you weigh?
Captain Glanton said:I try to do one 'big' lift per day: squat, deadlift, heavy barbell rows, overhead and flat bench presses.
Many people use the flat bench at the big measure of strength. You don't want to fall into that trap, but it can be a good barometer. 2X your bodyweight is a good benchmark for being strong. I'd rather use overhead press to measure pressing strength; 1.3X your bodyweight might be a good target for being strong.
Mr. Snrub said:Interesting opinions on origins/uses of split routines, by Mad Cow:
Strong opinions, but valid nonetheless.
BruceLeeRoy said:Interesting do you by any chance have a link?
demon said:I try deadlifts every now and then...did them every week for about a month or so last fall...but I tend to get a pain in my very lower back, I think my spine, the day or two after doing them. I can't imagine that's a good sign, so I'm just gonna give up on that.
demon said:I try deadlifts every now and then...did them every week for about a month or so last fall...but I tend to get a pain in my very lower back, I think my spine, the day or two after doing them. I can't imagine that's a good sign, so I'm just gonna give up on that.
My deadlift technique is laid out in the OP; I think I get lower and sit farther back than Rippetoe suggests, and that I'm using more leg drive and less back than most do. But if you feel any back trouble you need to be very, very careful. About two years ago I rounded my back while DLing, pulled a muscle in my lower back, and it's never healed right. It was even numb/tingley today after that squat routine I did last night.demon said:I try deadlifts every now and then...did them every week for about a month or so last fall...but I tend to get a pain in my very lower back, I think my spine, the day or two after doing them. I can't imagine that's a good sign, so I'm just gonna give up on that.
Captain Glanton said:My deadlift technique is laid out in the OP; I think I get lower and sit farther back than Rippetoe suggests, and that I'm using more leg drive and less back than most do. But if you feel any back trouble you need to be very, very careful. About two years ago I rounded my back while DLing, pulled a muscle in my lower back, and it's never healed right. It was even numb/tingley today after that squat routine I did last night.
I'd suspect that your pain is in the erectors alongside your backbone and not in your spine itself. If you think that the pain is neural, not muscular [after a while of doing this stuff, you learn to distinguish between the two], get thee to a physician.
BlueTsunami said:I tried doing Squats but my left knee keeps clicking, so I was advised to stop by my mates. :/
I'm trying to see what angle would be best (to stop it) but I may have to refrain from doing squats all together. Any advice?
WickedAngel said:It'll be a long time before I get anywhere close to that. I've never even been able to do my bodyweight, let alone 2x it. I've never trained like I was supposed to (Didn't know until now) and it appears that the vast majority of the time I spent in the gym beforehand will only have served to familiarize me with the environment and machinery.
I don't really weigh that much. When I was in my best shape (Which wasn't really great in terms of strength), I was 160lbs. I'm 180lbs now, starting out.
*Edit*
Holy mother of Christ...
I tried the "new" (Old to you guys) way tonight of doing exercises that I used to not do. I started off with the old (Benchpress) and did the new (Deadlifts) afterwards. It's going to be a while before I have enough strength/endurance to do much else after the deadlift; I did 4 sets of 8 reps (Varying weights between 120, my starting point, and 155, where I felt I was going to risk form if I continued to add weight).
How long do your workouts usually last? I did the same thing for the benchpress (4 sets of 8 reps with 20 seconds of rest between each set); at the end of the 4th set of deadlifts, I was dog tired. My entire workout only lasted ~25 minutes.
I think I'm going to wait a few weeks on the Power Clean. It doesn't look beginner-friendly and I think I need to study the technique a bit more before I charge into that.
demon said:I try deadlifts every now and then...did them every week for about a month or so last fall...but I tend to get a pain in my very lower back, I think my spine, the day or two after doing them. I can't imagine that's a good sign, so I'm just gonna give up on that.
WickedAngel said:So I've redone my schedule after having dragged my tired ass back in here from the weight room.
Monday
Deadlift
Benchpress
Arnold Press
Tuesday
Barbell Squats
Pullups (Wide Grip)
Dips
Leg Press
Rows
Wednesday
I'm not sure if I want to take this day off or not...I might do cardio here since I can't do it every day.
Thursday
Deadlift
Benchpress
Arnold Press
Friday
Barbell Squats
Pullups (Close Grip)
Dips
Leg Press
Rows
I'm going to try this routine for a while and see how it works out. A lot of these are compound exercises (From what I understand)...I might reintegrate isolation exercises to complement these compound exercises down the road but I'll let them go until I feel that I've made serious progress (Perhaps when I can press my own bodyweight, which I've never been able to do).
What is your opinion on belts? Are there any reasons not to use them (IE, are they a crutch or do they make you more likely to hurt yourself in some other way?)
perryfarrell said:
Mr. Snrub said:Never heard of it in that essence. Do you have a link to where you found this? This "wave loading" is all done within one workout? Like this:
225x6
230x5
235x4
240x3
245x2
250x1
245x2
240x3
235x4
230x5
230x6
235x5
240x4
245x3
250x2
255x1
Like that? If so...I've never heard of it. What's its purpose?
Now, wave loading as far as periodization, I've heard of. For instance, three workouts a week, for a previous Deadlift 5RM of 340:
Week 1
Workout 1
Deadlift 250x5
Workout 2
Deadlift 260x5
Workout 3
Deadlift 270x5
Week 2
Workout 1
Deadlift 280x5
Workout 2
Deadlift 290x5
Workout 3
Deadlift 300x5
Week 3
Workout 1
Deadlift 310x5
Workout 2
Deadlift 320x5
Workout 3
Deadlift 330x5
Week 4
Workout 1
Deadlift 340x5
Workout 2
Deadlift 350x5-PR
Workout 3
Deadlift 360x5-PR
Then cycle back down to week 2, then cycle up again.
Sandman7 said:I am currently 165 pounds, 14% body fat and 5'11''. For about 18 months now, I have been weight training 6 times a week and have martial arts classes once or twice a week so I am in a lot better shape than I was 18 months ago.
Two questions for the gurus in the thread:
1. Is there anything extra I should be doing/not doing, eating/not eating to get my fat down? I am happy with my weight it is just the remaining fat around my abdomen that is annoying me.
2. I have worked out through analsying my weight and fat losses that not all of my reduction in weight has been fat. I am pretty sure it isnt muscle loss (since I dont perceive any difficulty in lifting weights) but if all the weight loss is not fat loss, where does the extra weight loss come from?
And good luck to everyone trying to whip their asses into shape!
Frankly, if this thread just gets more people to exercise regularly and eat healthy food [lean meat, fruits, and vegetables instead of pre-cooked or fast food], then it's served its purpose. And 75% of the battle is to get people pushing themselves as hard as they can in regular workouts at the gym/track/etc and eating as much healthy food as possible. The rest is details.BruceLeeRoy said:Cool man thanks for the post.
Working out is as much about figuring out what your own body needs as well as educating yourself on what other people do.