Support NeoGAF

[beelzebozo]

i would imagine for most people it's a matter of balancing their real life with their workout schedule, and how much of their mental energy they can dedicate to--as the thread title puts it--"whipping their butt into shape." imagine someone who's a hundred pounds overweight, and their primary goal probably isn't so much to get ripped as it is to cease being a fat ass. if the way to do that is to run their tail off until they're no longer a fat ass and watch what they eat, and that's what they have the wherewithal to do, it's certainly better than remaining a huge fat ass. i can certainly see how building muscle and getting ripped can seem an auxiliary or even tertiary worry when you have so much else to worry about.

 

[quest]

I just did my last measurement/weigh in before my week off. Pretty damn awesome results. I have not been able to do cardio in 5 weeks thanks to reinjuring my knee. In those 5 weeks I have gained almost 3 pounds but my measurements around the belly button are the same. Pretty damn awesome to gain almost 3 pounds of lean mass and not gain any fat. That and all my lifts went up a decent amount in those 5 weeks. It is so much easier to maintain or even lose more fat once you have a decent base of muscle. That and spending the last 4 years figuring out what works for my bodyt. I can't wait 3 more days till my road trip. It is going to be 5 days of binging on fast food and beer. My joints really need a week off I am icing my knee and elbows daily. If my knee is not any better after my week off it will be time to see an orthopedist.

 

[quest]

There's a misconception that you can't simultenously lose fat and gain muscle. Mostly due to horrible training schedules/diets that have you eating too many calories and not stressing your muscular system properly.

Plus it's easier to "lose" weight all around than it is to lose fat and gain muscle. Then packing on weight appears easier because your putting fat and muscle on the same time. Very redudant way of changing your body.

Actually its those horrible diets with not enough calories. So many people are afraid to eat. I can eat 2500-2700 calories a day and slowly gain muscle and lose fat. I was moribidly obese for almost 15 years. Most people don't eat enough so they piss away muscle mass and slow down their metabolism when trying to cut fat. I was one of those I will admit it . I made ever mistake in the book from to much cardio to not lifting weights to not eating enough.

If you are losing weight pumping iron is just as important as cardio. It helps you retain muscle mass or even gain some which helps burn calories 24/7. For me I rank diet first lifting second and cardio 3rd for most important to lose weight. Once you get the diet and lifting down fat just melts off. Cardio is great for the heart and lungs but for fat loss is really just a mistake eraser. Cardio just makes up for a crappy diet or if you have a great diet cardio is the cherry on top. If you have an hour for the gym spend 45 minutes on weights and the last 15 on cardio.

 

[BlueTsunami]

I'm reading on Protein and Weight Training and the relationship between the two

So as far as the amount your supposed to take in, is this example a good guideline to follow?

How much protein should I take?

Unfortunately, there is no exact answer to this question. There are a two different formulas that are commonly used:


To ensure that the body is in a positive muscle building state, in other words, that it is burning fat--not muscle, you should ingest at least .9 grams of protein per lean pound of body weight.
For example, a 200 lb. man with 12% bodyfat requires 158 grams of protein daily.
200 X .12 = 24 lbs
200 - 24 = 176 lbs
176 X .9 = 158 gms



The latest study from the International Journal of Sports Nutrition says that people involved in strength training should get 1.6 - 1.7 grams protein per kilogram (2.2 pounds) of bodyweight per day. That is .7 grams per pound. Therefore, a 200 lb man (200 * .7) would need 140 grams of protein. Slightly less than the first formula.
As an estimate we figure that you should consume between .7 - .9 grams of protein per pound of body weight. These number vary based on the amount of body fat you have. Women have higher body fat than men, so they should be on the lower end of the scale. Here are some examples:

150 pounds = 105 - 135 grams of protein a day
160 pounds = 112 - 144 grams of protein a day
170 pounds = 119 - 153 grams of protein a day
180 pounds = 126 - 162 grams of protein a day
190 pounds = 133 - 171 grams of protein a day
200 pounds = 140 - 180 grams of protein a day
220 pounds = 154 - 198 grams of protein a day
240 pounds = 168 - 216 grams of protein a day
260 pounds = 182 - 234 grams of protein a day

I personally fall in the 160lb bracket and calculating the protein intake, I would have dinner (Chicken or Fish) which would fall in around 15-20g of Protein, lunch tuna fish (10g), the Whey Protein Shakes which is 16g per serving and factoring in if I use Milk instead of water thats an extra 8g a serving (24g) (x2 or x3 depending on if I'm working at that day. Not sure about breakfast...

Daily Protein intake with all that considered would only reach around 78g (at 2 protein shakes a day) :/

 

[tombur]

I'm reading on Protein and Weight Training and the relationship between the two

So as far as the amount your supposed to take in, is this example a good guideline to follow?



I personally fall in the 160lb bracket and calculating the protein intake, I would have dinner (Chicken or Fish) which would fall in around 15-20g of Protein, lunch tuna fish (10g), the Whey Protein Shakes which is 16g per serving and factoring in if I use Milk instead of water thats an extra 8g a serving (24g) (x2 or x3 depending on if I'm working at that day. Not sure about breakfast...

Daily Protein intake with all that considered would only reach around 78g (at 2 protein shakes a day) :/

Eat more meat for dinner, muuuuch more - maybe have another meal inbetween lunch and dinner.

 

[adelante]

I'm reading on Protein and Weight Training and the relationship between the two

So as far as the amount your supposed to take in, is this example a good guideline to follow?



I personally fall in the 160lb bracket and calculating the protein intake, I would have dinner (Chicken or Fish) which would fall in around 15-20g of Protein, lunch tuna fish (10g), the Whey Protein Shakes which is 16g per serving and factoring in if I use Milk instead of water thats an extra 8g a serving (24g) (x2 or x3 depending on if I'm working at that day. Not sure about breakfast...

Daily Protein intake with all that considered would only reach around 78g (at 2 protein shakes a day) :/

taking into account of your pre/post workout meals? That could easily put in another 50g of protein...and how much you have for breakfast is important too. 2 whole eggs along with 2 egg whites, oats, wheat cereal is a good start.

 

[Slo]

Eat more meat for dinner, muuuuch more - maybe have another meal inbetween lunch and dinner.

Generally you want to eat more in the mornings and less at night, but it sounds like this guy need to eat more all the time.

 

[JasoNsider]

Wow, you guys are incredibly good help!

I know what some are saying about how weights are probably better for you than cardio, but as boogie was saying, it's sorta down to what you love. And with summer rolling around, I can guarantee that running and cycling are going to be at the top of my list, you know? We've got a marathon coming up in May and with some dedication I'm sure the 5k run will be doable.

Still, I'll try and watch what I eat this time around so my body isn't starved this time around.

 

[armubaba]

Actually its those horrible diets with not enough calories. So many people are afraid to eat. I can eat 2500-2700 calories a day and slowly gain muscle and lose fat. I was moribidly obese for almost 15 years. Most people don't eat enough so they piss away muscle mass and slow down their metabolism when trying to cut fat. I was one of those I will admit it . I made ever mistake in the book from to much cardio to not lifting weights to not eating enough.

If you are losing weight pumping iron is just as important as cardio. It helps you retain muscle mass or even gain some which helps burn calories 24/7. For me I rank diet first lifting second and cardio 3rd for most important to lose weight. Once you get the diet and lifting down fat just melts off. Cardio is great for the heart and lungs but for fat loss is really just a mistake eraser. Cardio just makes up for a crappy diet or if you have a great diet cardio is the cherry on top. If you have an hour for the gym spend 45 minutes on weights and the last 15 on cardio.

Thank you. From what it looks like, I too am making your same mistakes. Looks like I'll be starting my lifting program from now on. Once again, thanks, you guys have all been a huge help, and I appreciate it.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Generally you want to eat more in the mornings and less at night, but it sounds like this guy need to eat more all the time.

Yeah, I've always had the eating habit of eating 3 main meals a day and stuff in between but for a year or so its been just 2 meals and I usually gorge myself during one of them :lol But I'm trying to correct it now.

Thanks for the help everyone!

 

[beelzebozo]

has anyone ever had problems with waking up in the middle of the night very hungry? i have a pretty bad habit at the moment of waking up ~3am every night, eating a bowl of cereal, and going back to bed. this hasn't been such a big deal for the past year or so--yes, it's been going on that long--but lately i've upped my running mileage and it's happening twice a night. that's going to be pretty pernicious to my health eventually, i'd imagine. how do i fix this shit? i'm thinking i might try eating a small something before bed, or at least switching to a piece of fruit in the middle of the night instead of heavy grains and dairy, heh.

help would be much appreciated. it's really no way to live.

 

[Captain Glanton]

I just did my last measurement/weigh in before my week off. Pretty damn awesome results. I have not been able to do cardio in 5 weeks thanks to reinjuring my knee. In those 5 weeks I have gained almost 3 pounds but my measurements around the belly button are the same. Pretty damn awesome to gain almost 3 pounds of lean mass and not gain any fat. That and all my lifts went up a decent amount in those 5 weeks. It is so much easier to maintain or even lose more fat once you have a decent base of muscle. That and spending the last 4 years figuring out what works for my bodyt. I can't wait 3 more days till my road trip. It is going to be 5 days of binging on fast food and beer. My joints really need a week off I am icing my knee and elbows daily. If my knee is not any better after my week off it will be time to see an orthopedist.

Oh man, don't binge that much. You can give yourself a meal off, and even a whole day if you've been superstrict for a long time, but 5 days of burgers and beer will have you worse off than when you started. You've made good progress; don't lose it now.

Are you taking any joint supplements? And yes, if your knee feels bad enough you're thinking about the doctor, go ahead and go. Don't be like me.

I'm reading on Protein and Weight Training and the relationship between the two

So as far as the amount your supposed to take in, is this example a good guideline to follow?



I personally fall in the 160lb bracket and calculating the protein intake, I would have dinner (Chicken or Fish) which would fall in around 15-20g of Protein, lunch tuna fish (10g), the Whey Protein Shakes which is 16g per serving and factoring in if I use Milk instead of water thats an extra 8g a serving (24g) (x2 or x3 depending on if I'm working at that day. Not sure about breakfast...

Daily Protein intake with all that considered would only reach around 78g (at 2 protein shakes a day) :/

As someone said, you need to be more of everything, I think. Getting 15 grams of protein from chicken or tuna is a tiny serving; shoot for 30 grams of protein at the least, and maybe up to 45 at the max. Let's put it this way: If you are eating clean food, you need to eat until you never want to see another fish or chicken to get all the protein and calories your body needs.

has anyone ever had problems with waking up in the middle of the night very hungry? i have a pretty bad habit at the moment of waking up ~3am every night, eating a bowl of cereal, and going back to bed. this hasn't been such a big deal for the past year or so--yes, it's been going on that long--but lately i've upped my running mileage and it's happening twice a night. that's going to be pretty pernicious to my health eventually, i'd imagine. how do i fix this shit? i'm thinking i might try eating a small something before bed, or at least switching to a piece of fruit in the middle of the night instead of heavy grains and dairy, heh.

help would be much appreciated. it's really no way to live.

Some bodybuilders will get up in the middle of the night and eat a chicken breast, but that's planned and probably not the same thing. They do it to make sure their protein supply is steady all 24 hours. Are you eating a lot of cereal during the day? And what kind of cereal is it? You might be making your body dependent on the carbs, and if you aren't getting enough calories during the day with your increased regimen it could be responding in the way habit has taught it to. My rec would be go cold turkey on the cereal, and when you wake up hungry eat something less tasty and more dense.

 

[demon]

What Boogie said.
It is true that gaining muscle mass while losing lots of weight from fat can be tricky, but you absolutely can gain a muscle mass while doing serious cardio.
The main problem is fitting both into your schedule and making sure you eat enough.
I’m a runner first and foremost, and I also managed to put some nice muscles on me with proper nutrition and strength training.

I suppose it is possible, but it's really hard and I think most people starting off will not be able to do it. A common experience it seems is trying to "get fit" and starting off by doing shitloads of 45 minute cardio sessions and a year later wondering why they're skinny as hell and haven't gained a pound of muscle. That's what happened to me, and it would have been nice to know that there's such a thing as too much cardio.

 

[Ether_Snake]

When I eat tuna I usually eat a whole can, which is 30g of proteins.

Anyway I don't use protein shakes for now, no need for it at my current low weight.

BTW what's the best exercise for work out that ass?

 

[Captain Glanton]

When I eat tuna I usually eat a whole can, which is 30g of proteins.

Anyway I don't use protein shakes for now, no need for it at my current low weight.

BTW what's the best exercise for work out that ass?

Front hack squats. You know that squat hack sled, where you put your shoulders in the pads and squat on an incline? Put your face down against pad and squat away. That and regular deep back squats should give your ass all the work it needs.

 

[liquid_gears]

I suppose it is possible, but it's really hard and I think most people starting off will not be able to do it. A common experience it seems is trying to "get fit" and starting off by doing shitloads of 45 minute cardio sessions and a year later wondering why they're skinny as hell and haven't gained a pound of muscle. That's what happened to me, and it would have been nice to know that there's such a thing as too much cardio.

This is what I've been doing for the last month or so. After reading through the last few pages of this thread I see where I have been going wrong.

I could be way off, but from doing some quick research it seems as though HIIT is the most effective way to burn fat and gain lean muscle at the same time?

So instead of doing 45mins on the treadmill every day I'm instead going to start off with 20 mins of HIIT each day (alternating between running outside, swimming, rowing machine and stationary bike) with some weights every few days.

Breakfast: Weetabix
Dinner: Salad with lean meat and hard boiled egg
Snacks: Fruit
tea: Usually lean meat with some potatoes or any number of things along these lines.

I'll let you know how I get on with this plan over the next few weeks.

This thread has been a really big help but I just feel as though cardio gets too much bashing around here.

 

[Chichikov]

I suppose it is possible, but it's really hard and I think most people starting off will not be able to do it. A common experience it seems is trying to "get fit" and starting off by doing shitloads of 45 minute cardio sessions and a year later wondering why they're skinny as hell and haven't gained a pound of muscle. That's what happened to me, and it would have been nice to know that there's such a thing as too much cardio.

Sound like your problem was not enough strength training, not too much cardio.
If you're an unfit person your muscle mass is probably fairly low, and no, cardio alone will not improve it.
I'm a firm believer in combining both.

And while HIIT can be a great way to build cardiovascular fitness, for people worried about getting too skinny it offer no advantage over "regular" cardio. It's designed to be more time efficient way to exercise.

Front hack squats. You know that squat hack sled, where you put your shoulders in the pads and squat on an incline? Put your face down against pad and squat away. That and regular deep back squats should give your ass all the work it needs.

I'm really not a fan of the squat sled.
It eliminates the core from the exercise making it less effective, but the main problem is that you can only move the weight over strict line.
If you have a perfect form it's not a problem, but any force that is not excreted directly into that axis will be translated into a shearing force on your joints, usually the knees.
A person should learn how to squat.

 

[beelzebozo]

Some bodybuilders will get up in the middle of the night and eat a chicken breast, but that's planned and probably not the same thing. They do it to make sure their protein supply is steady all 24 hours. Are you eating a lot of cereal during the day? And what kind of cereal is it? You might be making your body dependent on the carbs, and if you aren't getting enough calories during the day with your increased regimen it could be responding in the way habit has taught it to. My rec would be go cold turkey on the cereal, and when you wake up hungry eat something less tasty and more dense.

thanks for the advice man. i'm far from a bodybuilder, so i don't know. i'm going to run an experiment tonight and see if i can fall back to sleep with an apple and a glass of water, and go from there.

 

[BlueTsunami]

I'm really not a fan of the squat sled.
It eliminates the core from the exercise making it less effective, but the main problem is that you can only move the weight over strict line.
If you have a perfect form it's not a problem, but any force that is not excreted directly into that axis will be translated into a shearing force on your joints, usually the knees.
A person should learn how to squat.

I actually liked the upside down inclined squat sled thats at the gym I'm at. I tried the regular squat sled at first and I totally felt the pressure on my knees (didn't like it at all) but the upside down one (where the platform and weight are pushing down on me and I have to push off with my legs) alleviated the pressure.

 

[Captain Glanton]

I actually liked the upside down inclined squat sled thats at the gym I'm at. I tried the regular squat sled at first and I totally felt the pressure on my knees (didn't like it at all) but the upside down one (where the platform and weight are pushing down on me and I have to push off with my legs) alleviated the pressure.

That's a leg press. I'm not a fan, but some people like them and they're fine. To change up, try doing them one leg at a time.

I'm really not a fan of the squat sled.
It eliminates the core from the exercise making it less effective, but the main problem is that you can only move the weight over strict line.
If you have a perfect form it's not a problem, but any force that is not excreted directly into that axis will be translated into a shearing force on your joints, usually the knees.
A person should learn how to squat.

I never said that front hacks should be done instead of back squats. However, I can say that I got more development in my backside from front hacks than back squats. I know that I couldn't have gotten a heavy, deep squat without the power I developed from doing front hacks each week. Put enough weight on front hacks, and you will be working your core, too.

 

[Ether_Snake]

The thing is I always feel like my hamstrings do most of the work, so they get sore before my gluteus causing me to stop.

 

[Chichikov]

I never said that front hacks should be done instead of back squats. However, I can say that I got more development in my backside from front hacks than back squats. I know that I couldn't have gotten a heavy, deep squat without the power I developed from doing front hacks each week. Put enough weight on front hacks, and you will be working your core, too.

To each his own.
Never liked any of the on-rail exercises, and at least on the hack sleds we have at the gym I cannot seem to place my legs in a way that will not result in some unresisted force orthogonal to my spine.
Maybe I just don't know how to use them.

The thing is I always feel like my hamstrings do most of the work, so they get sore before my gluteus causing me to stop.

You most likely lack flexibility in your hamstrings which is very often the limiting factor for beginners.
The good thing is that squats are also a great way of improving hamstring flexibility, make sure you warm up properly and keep good form and you'll most likely see improvement in no time.
Alternatively you can get around that inflexibility by getting elevated heel squat shoes or even put a small block of wood (under an inch tall) under you heel.
But I personally think it's a good idea to work on your hamstrings, if you're going to get serious about weight training it's very important to get them flexible.

 

[Captain Glanton]

To each his own.
Never liked any of the on-rail exercises, and at least on the hack sleds we have at the gym I cannot seem to place my legs in a way that will not result in some unresisted force orthogonal to my spine.
Maybe I just don't know how to use them.

Maybe it's a matter of body type. I can move my butt backward as a come down with no problem, and it always hits my glutes. Back squats will hit me there too [and it's sore right now after leg day], but I really believe that doing heavy front hacks every week [I'm talking 7-8 plates on each side] gave me power at the bottom of my back squats I wouldn't have had otherwise.

NB: following my advice might lead a medical condition known as "squatter's ass," in which you look like you have small balloons under your jeans.

 

[quest]

Oh man, don't binge that much. You can give yourself a meal off, and even a whole day if you've been superstrict for a long time, but 5 days of burgers and beer will have you worse off than when you started. You've made good progress; don't lose it now.

Are you taking any joint supplements? And yes, if your knee feels bad enough you're thinking about the doctor, go ahead and go. Don't be like me.

These cheat weeks keep me sane honestly. I am not so low in BF were it really sets me back much. After a week binge I really come back strong and the fat will melt off for a while. I only do it a few times a year it is something to look forward to. I don't even want to get super learn honestly with my saggy skin I won't have a 6 pack unless I got surgery for my skin. It won't get much better since my age 35 and being over 350 pounds so damn long. My body is littered with stretch marks my belly looks like a deflated balloon. My ultimate goal is over 200 pounds at 15% body fat. Something I can reasonably maintain and have good size.

I am taking animal flex and fish oil for my joints. My knee has sucked for years hit by a car in a parking lot as a teen. I have been to the doctor in the past for the knee they tell me swelling under the knee cap. It usually goes away in a week or 2 when I re injure it. This time it will not get any better. I really don't want to go to a orthopedist out of fear something is seriously wrong and I need surgery. If I need surgery and I can't work out it will be fat city for me again. If it is not better in a week then I will make an appointment will have nothing to lose.

 

[Anton Sugar]

So as of late I've been looking to get in shape, and, as you'll probably be able to tell from the rest of this post, I'm a complete newbie at this stuff. So, uh, here goes nothing.

For the past month and a half or so, I've been running two to four miles about five times a week and cutting down on my calorie intake. I haven't really done much weights at all, and have focused all my attention on cardio. I have seen a noticeable difference. I've gained quite a bit of endurance, shaved at least a minute off my mile time, and, from the looks of it, melted some fat off both my face and my stomach.

My plan is to first burn off the fat, then bulk up. For a while now, I've been having about 1,500-1,750 calories daily. Once I feel I've burned off enough fat, my plan is to slowly up my calorie count, add more proteins and meats in, and move on to muscle workouts.

My question is- is this healthy? Is there anything else I should be doing? Any advice?

Thanks a whole lot in advance, I really appreciate it.

Build muscle/"bulk" first, then lose fat. There's really no sense in doing it the other way around.

 

[Anton Sugar]

There's a misconception that you can't simultenously lose fat and gain muscle. Mostly due to horrible training schedules/diets that have you eating too many calories and not stressing your muscular system properly.

Plus it's easier to "lose" weight all around than it is to lose fat and gain muscle. Then packing on weight appears easier because your putting fat and muscle on the same time. Very redudant way of changing your body.

No, it's not. Gaining muscle will increase the amount of calories you burn at rest/on a daily basis, thus making fat loss easier.

 

[Deleted member 12837]

So I used to lift weights pretty regularly for high school sports and then just to stay in good general shape, but I herniated a disc in my back and had to take about a year off. I've been cleared to lift again for a while by my doctor but I haven't found the time between my school work and job. However, I'm hoping to jump back into it fairly soon. A few questions:

1. Any advice on the best pre and post workout shakes in terms of supplement brands and extra content (like fruits, milk, etc)? Do people take protein shakes more often than before and after a workout? Do you drink them on your off days too?

2. The few times I thought I had enough time to get back into the gym and started for a couple of weeks, I found my biggest problem to be that I got tired REALLY fast. I would do my first set of 8-10 reps just fine (obviously at a lower weight than I used to, a year off is a much longer drop than I anticipated) but I would get to the second set and struggle to get past 6 or 7, and then would do even worse for the third. This would extend to other exercises within the same muscle group as well, and I just felt very tired in general. Is there a supplement I can take for this that will help out until I build my muscular endurance back up, or should I just drop to lower weights and suck it up? The only problem there is, I tried that and didn't feel like I was getting any workout/burn at all.

3. Squats. I never liked them in the first place and never got the form down quite right, and I'm scared to do them now after hurting my back (I didn't hurt it doing squats though). I usually don't have a lifting partner to be a spotter, unfortunately, so that makes me even more reluctant to do them.

I know there aren't any true replacement exercises for squats, but what's the best thing I can do to try to make up for not doing them? Or should I suck it up and start doing them again?

Thanks for your help in advance guys.

 

[Cauliflower of Love]

No, it's not. Gaining muscle will increase the amount of calories you burn at rest/on a daily basis, thus making fat loss easier.

Yeah, I meant to emphasize that alot of people aren't stressing their muscles enough to grow.

 

[Anton Sugar]

So I used to lift weights pretty regularly for high school sports and then just to stay in good general shape, but I herniated a disc in my back and had to take about a year off. I've been cleared to lift again for a while by my doctor but I haven't found the time between my school work and job. However, I'm hoping to jump back into it fairly soon. A few questions:

1. Any advice on the best pre and post workout shakes in terms of supplement brands and extra content (like fruits, milk, etc)? Do people take protein shakes more often than before and after a workout? Do you drink them on your off days too?

I usually only take a protein shake after a workout. I have been gaining weight steadily with a shake every day Mon-Fri, and weekends I cheat a bit, just because I am not as organized then. Many people take a pre-workout shake to help with energy and available protein, and since my workouts are going to start getting longer (up to 1.5 hours), I am going to be mixing in some protein with gatorade to sip on throughout my workout. Really though, if you want to keep things simple and HAVE to have one, go with post workout.

2. The few times I thought I had enough time to get back into the gym and started for a couple of weeks, I found my biggest problem to be that I got tired REALLY fast. I would do my first set of 8-10 reps just fine (obviously at a lower weight than I used to, a year off is a much longer drop than I anticipated) but I would get to the second set and struggle to get past 6 or 7, and then would do even worse for the third. This would extend to other exercises within the same muscle group as well, and I just felt very tired in general. Is there a supplement I can take for this that will help out until I build my muscular endurance back up, or should I just drop to lower weights and suck it up? The only problem there is, I tried that and didn't feel like I was getting any workout/burn at all.

No supplement will give you strength, unfortunately, but there are supplements that can aid with recovery. However, since you aren't actively working out, I doubt this is the case, and your muslces have probably just atrophied/adapted to not being used. Suck it up, use lighter weights for your workouts. It is ALWAYS better to make small, incremental gains per workout, instead of making large jumps and stalling earlier than your potential could have dictated. What are your goals?

3. Squats. I never liked them in the first place and never got the form down quite right, and I'm scared to do them now after hurting my back (I didn't hurt it doing squats though). I usually don't have a lifting partner to be a spotter, unfortunately, so that makes me even more reluctant to do them.

I know there aren't any true replacement exercises for squats, but what's the best thing I can do to try to make up for not doing them? Or should I suck it up and start doing them again?

Suck it up and start doing them again. Nothing will have the same metabolic and muscle building effect. Deads are close, but deads can't be trained in as high volumes as squats.

Squats will be fine for your back. Which discs did you injure? As long as you maintain proper form, your spine will be okay: keeping your back tight locks your spine into place and acts as a cushion to any shearing forces. Since you are taking your time getting back into the weight room, starting with lighter weights will be good.

I have never had a spotter and taught myself to squat. Get used to using the power rack!

Do yourself a favor if you care about making the best gains possible and in the best form possible, and buy Starting Strength. The author also hosts a Q&A forum here, where people post vids of their form and he helps out. Honestly, instead of spending $20-30 on some supplement, buy this before you start training. Will save you a shit ton of wasted effort.

 

[Deleted member 12837]

No supplement will give you strength, unfortunately, but there are supplements that can aid with recovery. However, since you aren't actively working out, I doubt this is the case, and your muslces have probably just atrophied/adapted to not being used. Suck it up, use lighter weights for your workouts. It is ALWAYS better to make small, incremental gains per workout, instead of making large jumps and stalling earlier than your potential could have dictated. What are your goals?

The only reason I suggested a supplement was because my feeling of being tired is more like "drained", and it's different than the feeling I used to get on the last few reps of my last set or at the end of my workout back when I was still weight training regularly. I feel like I lose my energy really quickly, not that I've actually worked my muscles to exhaustion or that the weight is too much. Sometimes I'm even a bit out of breath just from lifting, no cardio at all.

My goals I guess would be to get my athletic build back. I don't care about bench pressing X amount of lbs, I'd much rather be able to do a lot of push-ups, pull-ups, not tire out during an intense basketball game and have enough strength to hold my ground posting up, etc.

When I was a senior in high school I was 17, 6'0 and ~185 lbs. I'd like to be a bit stronger than I was then (now that I'm 19 and my body has developed a bit more) but I'd also like to be a little leaner. I was a chubby kid in middle school and my freshman year and never quite cut it down all the way.

Suck it up and start doing them again. Nothing will have the same metabolic and muscle building effect. Deads are close, but deads can't be trained in as high volumes as squats.

Squats will be fine for your back. Which discs did you injure?

L5-S1 disc.

Also, would you say pretty much the same about deadlifts in terms of your advice? Safe for me to do?

 

[Captain Glanton]

404Ender
I use Biotest supplements, but there are others that are good and less expensive if money is an issue. I see so many guys drinking shakes during their workouts, but I know that I would get sick to my stomach doing that. Try to eat a good meal an hour to 90 minutes before the workout, and then drink a good postworkout shake afterwards. You might try to eat a small piece of fruit right before the gym, too. If you're feeling really drained as you exercise, then my guess would be that you're not getting enough food over the course of each day.

 

[Anton Sugar]

The only reason I suggested a supplement was because my feeling of being tired is more like "drained", and it's different than the feeling I used to get on the last few reps of my last set or at the end of my workout back when I was still weight training regularly. I feel like I lose my energy really quickly, not that I've actually worked my muscles to exhaustion or that the weight is too much. Sometimes I'm even a bit out of breath just from lifting, no cardio at all.

My goals I guess would be to get my athletic build back. I don't care about bench pressing X amount of lbs, I'd much rather be able to do a lot of push-ups, pull-ups, not tire out during an intense basketball game and have enough strength to hold my ground posting up, etc.

When I was a senior in high school I was 17, 6'0 and ~185 lbs. I'd like to be a bit stronger than I was then (now that I'm 19 and my body has developed a bit more) but I'd also like to be a little leaner. I was a chubby kid in middle school and my freshman year and never quite cut it down all the way.

Hmm...well, that could be a question of nutrition and proper rest. I think its a combination of nutrition and conditioning. You're just not used to the work, which is solved by...working! As far as nutrition, what's your diet like? You may benefit from a pre-workout shake if you're feeling gassed halfway into your workout. So it's nothing like muscular fatigue or...? I am frequently out of breath after heavy sets, but that's just because of how I breath.

What I'd recommend, as far as a training plan goes, is to get your base strength up and then work on conditioning/endurance. It's easy to get maximal strength and then work on endurance, than it is to work on endurance and then build maximal strength. Are you under any sort of time restraints for a sport, season, etc.?

L5-S1 disc.

Also, would you say pretty much the same about deadlifts in terms of your advice? Safe for me to do?

Just be sure you use PROPER FORM. Too many people are injured and blame it on the exercise. Be patient, use good form. Deadlifts, like squats, are GOOD for you. Especially for an injured back. However, the lumbar/sacral area is where a lot of people like to get lazy and round, which can lead to injury. This doesn't happen just in squats and deadlifts, but your daily life. You can see someone do deadlifts with perfect form, then lazily round their back while they're putting weights away.

Deadlifts can help your posture and strength everything in your posterior chain, and help your back. Just be patient and do them right. The deadlift was, at one time, called the "health lift".

 

[Anton Sugar]

404Ender
I use Biotest supplements, but there are others that are good and less expensive if money is an issue. I see so many guys drinking shakes during their workouts, but I know that I would get sick to my stomach doing that. Try to eat a good meal an hour to 90 minutes before the workout, and then drink a good postworkout shake afterwards. You might try to eat a small piece of fruit right before the gym, too. If you're feeling really drained as you exercise, then my guess would be that you're not getting enough food over the course of each day.

Same for me, I've never tried a shake during a workout, but we'll see. I already get "the burps" during a workout if I eat less than an hour before a workout, but I can't imagine sipping a proteiny gatorade would be too bad.

Then again.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I usually have a banana 45 minutes before a workout, seems to keep the blood sugar levels at a peak without feeling bloated.

During the workout I only drink water, if I eat anything it begins repeating on me.

 

[Deleted member 12837]

404Ender
I use Biotest supplements, but there are others that are good and less expensive if money is an issue. I see so many guys drinking shakes during their workouts, but I know that I would get sick to my stomach doing that. Try to eat a good meal an hour to 90 minutes before the workout, and then drink a good postworkout shake afterwards. You might try to eat a small piece of fruit right before the gym, too. If you're feeling really drained as you exercise, then my guess would be that you're not getting enough food over the course of each day.

Ok, I guess from now on I'll try to schedule my workouts within 60-90 minutes of my main meals. I'll try the banana trick someone else mentioned as well.

For the Biotest supplemants, do you use Metabolic Drive, Grow!, Surge, or some mix?

You may benefit from a pre-workout shake if you're feeling gassed halfway into your workout. So it's nothing like muscular fatigue or...? I am frequently out of breath after heavy sets, but that's just because of how I breath.

What I'd recommend, as far as a training plan goes, is to get your base strength up and then work on conditioning/endurance. It's easy to get maximal strength and then work on endurance, than it is to work on endurance and then build maximal strength. Are you under any sort of time restraints for a sport, season, etc.?

So would this "base strengthening" stage be more like basic 3 sets of 8-10 reps for 2-3 weeks and then start into more varied stuff like a pyramid or 8-8-6-6-3 for benching and other lifts? Longer than 2-3 weeks?

Any recommended brands for preworkout shakes?

 

[Mecha_Infantry]

No, it's not. Gaining muscle will increase the amount of calories you burn at rest/on a daily basis, thus making fat loss easier.

But this is based on how much muscle you wish to gain. If you wish to make big gain in size and mass you need to bulk on food to compensate for the huge calorie request from training heavy. Hence losing fat whilst bulking is normally *impossible* (I don't like using that word but it is not common). The basis of losing weight = eating burning more calories than you consume and this is not the way to go to get to a good size

In the position of who your statement was too, they need to as you said in your previous post, gain muscle mass, then cut. Repeat.

Training newbies @ the gym is hard work though...I might need to stop that shit (Actual people @the gym, not aimed @ anyone in the thread)

 

[Anton Sugar]

Ok, I guess from now on I'll try to schedule my workouts within 60-90 minutes of my main meals. I'll try the banana trick someone else mentioned as well.

For the Biotest supplemants, do you use Metabolic Drive, Grow!, Surge, or some mix?



So would this "base strengthening" stage be more like basic 3 sets of 8-10 reps for 2-3 weeks and then start into more varied stuff like a pyramid or 8-8-6-6-3 for benching and other lifts? Longer than 2-3 weeks?

Any recommended brands for preworkout shakes?

Buy Starting Strength. Seriously--written by one of the VERY few guys who knows the theory AND practice of strength training.

I'd do something more like 5 sets of 5 to get strength levels up. And base strengthening is, in my opinion, until you're out of a novice stage. Being a novice is determined by your recovery periods--most novices can increase weight from workout to workout, or every other workout. Intermediates have to plan to make weekly increases, advanced athletes make monthly increases, elite make multi-monthly or yearly increases.

Again, get Starting Strength. Smartest $30 you'll ever spend in this regard.

 

[Anton Sugar]

But this is based on how much muscle you wish to gain. If you wish to make big gain in size and mass you need to bulk on food to compensate for the huge calorie request from training heavy. Hence losing fat whilst bulking is normally *impossible* (I don't like using that word but it is not common). The basis of losing weight = eating burning more calories than you consume and this is not the way to go to get to a good size

In the position of who your statement was too, they need to as you said in your previous post, gain muscle mass, then cut. Repeat.

Training newbies @ the gym is hard work though...I might need to stop that shit (Actual people @the gym, not aimed @ anyone in the thread)

The ONLY reasons why you should not strength train while trying to lose weight are:

1)You do not want to build any muscle or strength.

2)You love cardio more than strength training and don't want to compromise it.

It depends on the definition of bulking, I suppose. In the past few months (since September or so), on Rippetoe's program, I have gained twenty pounds and all of my lifts have increased by a good margin. I have the same bodyfat percentage that I did at the start. Smart training is possible. Now, if I had wanted to, I probably could have gained about 30 pounds, with some more fat, but probably still more muscle. Just haven't had the funds to feed and train like I should have. I am hoping to hit 200 pounds on this program.

I agree completely that the basis of losing weight is burning more than you consume, but it's not ALWAYS that simple, because when you start lifting the food you eat doesn't just convert to waste/stored in your cells, it helps your recovery and helps you build muscle. That's why little guys who don't change their diet get a little more muscular but have a short period of gains, and this is why big guys who start training notice that their shirts get tighter everywhere BUT their gut, which may actually decrease in size.

 

[beelzebozo]

well, my battle with waking up hungry went depressingly badly last night. the war wages on

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I have the same bodyfat percentage that I did at the start.

That really is the key.

 

[Captain Glanton]

Ok, I guess from now on I'll try to schedule my workouts within 60-90 minutes of my main meals. I'll try the banana trick someone else mentioned as well.

For the Biotest supplemants, do you use Metabolic Drive, Grow!, Surge, or some mix?



So would this "base strengthening" stage be more like basic 3 sets of 8-10 reps for 2-3 weeks and then start into more varied stuff like a pyramid or 8-8-6-6-3 for benching and other lifts? Longer than 2-3 weeks?

Any recommended brands for preworkout shakes?

I use MD for my protein shakes and Surge + creatine for postworkout. If I'm going to lift late in the afternoon [many hours after lunch], 1 to 1.5 hours before I might have a shake of: raw oatmeal, skim milk, protein mix [MD], and natural peanut butter. I find that gives me plenty of food on my stomach to work out.

As Mr. Snrub said, for any beginner, a good workout plan would be lots of 5 sets of 5 reps [5 X 5] of the core exercises. I think that most people try to make their plans too complicated; better to do your overhead presses and squats with high intensity than to do leg extensions and side raises all day.

Edit: I just tried the preworkout shake above, with Diet Cherry Coke mixed in. It was ... an experience.

Any advice you can give me on doing power cleans? I know I can do more weight than what I'm currently doing, but every time I start to lift what I consider heavy weight my mind will not allow it. I pull the bar up but snapping and getting under it is almost impossible. What should I do to get in the right mindset for doing cleans?

When I do them [achy wrists ((] I do them off the floor. I get enough leg drive that it's moving so fast that snapping under it is just a function of its momentum and not a power move. If you're doing them from an upright start, I'd suggest trying to increase the speed of the bar as it comes up and working on starting your 'drop' sooner, so that you're coming under it as it hits its high point.

Hope that makes sense. I don't do power cleans all that often.

 

[Ace 8095]

Any advice you can give me on doing power cleans? I know I can do more weight than what I'm currently doing, but every time I start to lift what I consider heavy weight my mind will not allow it. I pull the bar up but snapping and getting under it is almost impossible. What should I do to get in the right mindset for doing cleans?

 

[Boogie]

I'm reading on Protein and Weight Training and the relationship between the two

So as far as the amount your supposed to take in, is this example a good guideline to follow?



I personally fall in the 160lb bracket and calculating the protein intake, I would have dinner (Chicken or Fish) which would fall in around 15-20g of Protein, lunch tuna fish (10g), the Whey Protein Shakes which is 16g per serving and factoring in if I use Milk instead of water thats an extra 8g a serving (24g) (x2 or x3 depending on if I'm working at that day. Not sure about breakfast...

Daily Protein intake with all that considered would only reach around 78g (at 2 protein shakes a day) :/

HOLY SHIT.

I've never been one to get meticulous about my diet. I'm 170lbs, and according to that chart and my rough estimate, I only get about HALF the protein I should? wtf?

 

[Captain Glanton]

HOLY SHIT.

I've never been one to get meticulous about my diet. I'm 170lbs, and according to that chart and my rough estimate, I only get about HALF the protein I should? wtf?

That sounds entirely possible. The average person's diet is totally inadequate for a serious exercise plan. I can't stress enough that you should probably be eating chicken and fish until you don't want to see them again.

 

[Boogie]

That sounds entirely possible. The average person's diet is totally inadequate for a serious exercise plan. I can't stress enough that you should probably be eating chicken and fish until you don't want to see them again.

I know that you know your stuff, but I can't help but be skeptical that I can do that while maintaining a high level of cardio, and my current bodyfat % (8.4%).

I'm happy with where my fitness is, though I would like to increase my strength if I can maintain the rest of my fitness.

 

[Captain Glanton]

I know that you know your stuff, but I can't help but be skeptical that I can do that while maintaining a high level of cardio, and my current bodyfat % (8.4%).

I'm happy with where my fitness is, though I would like to increase my strength if I can maintain the rest of my fitness.

Well, I didn't recognize you [fix your avatar! that's what I look at]. 8.4% is really, really low. I don't think that you could stick to that with many changes, just because it's so close to the absolute minimum.

If you want to increase strength while doing lots of steady state cardio and keeping your bf% so low, I'm not entirely sure what to suggest. You might try increasing your protein intake step by step and see how it affects your bf%.

 

[I_D]

I go to the gym for an hour each day.


I have a pretty standard schedule:


* Stretch out (doesn't count as part of the hour)
* Run half a mile to get the heart pumpin.
* Light arm lifting
* Light leg lifting
* Core training (usually sit ups and those twisted sit up things that work the obliques)
* Run another half mile, or more if I can manage
* Heavy arm lifting
* Heavy leg lifting
* Core training
* Finish it off with 2000 meters of rowing


Now, I'm pretty darn happy with my arms and legs but I have a few questions:

I don't have much of a stomach, but I don't have a six-pack either. Should I continue running to lose the remaining fat, or would it be more beneficial to up the sit up count?

Also, how in the world do you work out the inside of your legs, near the groin (in before sex jokes)? Since I had to quit karate, my inside leg muscles are severely weakened compared to what they used to be.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

What's your body fat percentage Immortal?

 

[Boogie]

I don't have much of a stomach, but I don't have a six-pack either. Should I continue running to lose the remaining fat, or would it be more beneficial to up the sit up count?

Probably not the latter. But I would guess at diet and genetics being the limiting factors rather than needing to do more running.

 

[Captain Glanton]

I go to the gym for an hour each day.


I have a pretty standard schedule:


* Stretch out (doesn't count as part of the hour)
* Run half a mile to get the heart pumpin.
* Light arm lifting
* Light leg lifting
* Core training (usually sit ups and those twisted sit up things that work the obliques)
* Run another half mile, or more if I can manage
* Heavy arm lifting
* Heavy leg lifting
* Core training
* Finish it off with 2000 meters of rowing


Now, I'm pretty darn happy with my arms and legs but I have a few questions:

I don't have much of a stomach, but I don't have a six-pack either. Should I continue running to lose the remaining fat, or would it be more beneficial to up the sit up count?

Also, how in the world do you work out the inside of your legs, near the groin (in before sex jokes)? Since I had to quit karate, my inside leg muscles are severely weakened compared to what they used to be.

--The six pack is largely a matter of fat loss, not muscle building. If you get your abs too strong [like me] you can have some definition, but too far out.

--If you want to have large inner thighs, squat with a wide stance. I do all my squatting with a wide stance, squatting back, and my inner thighs are enormous. Seriously, the inside legs of my jeans rub white really fast, and if I walk in shorts even a mile or so, I'll start to chafe.