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Official Heavenly Sword Thread - Heaven is under our feet as well as over our heads
- Thread starter XHitoshuraX
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dammitmattt
Banned
JB1981 said:
I agree. It's ridiculous that you are punished so harshly for missing a few random button presses. It's the exact same problem that Spider-Man 3 had, but you expect more from a AAA Sony-published game.
Other than that, I think I'm enjoying myself after the first two chapters, though the analog control is MUCH better than the motion control for the aftertouch segments.
Mass Effect has a lot to live up to in order to match the cutscenes, though to be fair to Mass Effect, each cutscene has more than one way it could play out. Andy Serkis' character is absolutely amazing. He is one of the best digital actors I've seen in any medium.
dammitmattt
Banned
Fredrik said:
Please tell me how next gen has arrived with Heavenly Sword?!?!? I've heard it all...
Mr. Mister
Member
I think I understand god of war pacing very well, no need for graphs. In my eyes heavenly swords pacing was fine and if anything one of the highlights of their game. If you are talking about individual ai scenarios then yes they do just throw the entire kitchen sink at you but with what they had I dont really know what else they could have done.flarkminator said:
Different strokes for different folks. Considering the boss basically repeated the exact same pattern three times only getting faster, I welcomed the slight diversion.flarkminator said:
I don't really understand what you are talking about here. Are you saying the designers make the choice on a fight by fight basis or that the AI make it?flarkminator said:
Most of the bigger guys in God of War are built around the ability to roll. There are unblockables in Heavenly swprd which they train you to evade. Heavenly Sword did assign the right analog stick to evade which means they figured players would or should be using it.flarkminator said:
I agree with most of this but again I think they were doing the best with what they had.flarkminator said:
dammitmattt
Banned
theBishop said:
No way, man. That was a 360 game!!!
dammitmattt
Banned
Strider2K99 said:
I'm really surprised that the load times are as long as they are since the game obviously installs something on the hard drive.
flarkminator
Member
Mr. Mister said:
Most of what I talked about is little things they could have done. I'm by no means an expert in the field of combat design, but it is my passion. I think it's crazy how many little things they let fall through the cracks.
dammitmattt
Banned
Strider2K99 said:
I guess it's the dark side of Blu-ray???
TheDarkKnight774
Member
Just finished the game today. Yea it was short, but i loved the whole entire ride. This game was lived up to my expectations and then some. The combat system was fun, i loved the characters (Kai rules!), story, voice acting, cutscenes, presentation, the great music, and varied game modes.
All in all my only complaints are the framerate drops at times, and the occasional screen tearing. Man i hope we get a sequel!
I rented this game through Gamefly and i liked it so much i just used the "keep it" option and now i own it for $40 bucks. Well worth it IMO.
I look forwared to replaying this game a couple months from now.
All in all my only complaints are the framerate drops at times, and the occasional screen tearing. Man i hope we get a sequel!
I rented this game through Gamefly and i liked it so much i just used the "keep it" option and now i own it for $40 bucks. Well worth it IMO.
I look forwared to replaying this game a couple months from now.Lord Error
Insane For Sony
You are not punished that harshly if you miss that QTE. You don't start the whole fight over - all it does, is return you to fight with him, and his energy is replenished. However, he goes down pretty easily in that fight, and since the QTE buttons are always the same, there's no chance of missing it again. That was the easiest boss fight in the game, but one of the most fun for me, because of the way he sends those soldiers at you.dammitmattt said:
Okay, just finished the game. Anyone who's into adventures games for stories shouldn't miss it. The cutscenes really take the presentation to a next level as you react emotionally just by looking at their expressions and not just listening to the dialogue.
Gameplay pros & cons:
- QTE button presses need slightly larger time period for entry.
- The fighting engine works extremely well when it's running smooth. Just a five frame difference makes the world. Sacrifice everything in a potential sequel for a smooth framerate (the demo part and just a couple of other spots was pure butter).
- Unlike the other trio of large combat adventure games, I feel that some of the enemies here are maybe a bit too defensive, overall it's like 1/3 of your attacks come through.
- Needs more actual traversal. Auto-jumping like Zelda so you can keep the realism would be a nice addition.
- Needs lot more enemy variety and mix them up better as well (you already have super natural stuff in there, no excuse for not having Chinese dragons or flying fish things or crazy stuff).
- Game needs more XP and general upgrade stuff. Not just new moves.
+ The design of the combat system is great, just holding either L1 or R1 feels right for different stances. Also, at last a fighting game that recognises actual physics.
+ The game has probably the most impressive crowd simulation around. Not talking about the army bits but just in general, how a huge group move around accordingly to your movement, how they throw a balanced number of fighters against you (those in the back commenting and cheering) and how the colored attack system makes this manageable in the first place. You actually have the ability to play with a cool head when you're outnumbered one to a dozen or more.
+ There are checkpoints between the various stages of a boss fight.
+ QTE event doesn't always mean instant failure if one press is missed.
+ Kai missions were fun and well made diversions.
That's the gameplay. Besides that, I felt that the game had a very good story-arc, it had good music (wouldn't say it's the best but sometime it's just brilliant like during the part where you fight Whiptails body guards or the small cues to Nariko about to kick some ass..etc). I felt that the traversal between the different lands was pretty much non existent and it felt like they were just past the hills from each other (you don't actually see any traversal between the spots at all). Again, story presentation is really taken to the next level here. You can hear it in their voices when they physically react to each other, how the faces move like real faces should..etc. It's a good adventure.
A clean 8 out of 10.
Gameplay pros & cons:
- QTE button presses need slightly larger time period for entry.
- The fighting engine works extremely well when it's running smooth. Just a five frame difference makes the world. Sacrifice everything in a potential sequel for a smooth framerate (the demo part and just a couple of other spots was pure butter).
- Unlike the other trio of large combat adventure games, I feel that some of the enemies here are maybe a bit too defensive, overall it's like 1/3 of your attacks come through.
- Needs more actual traversal. Auto-jumping like Zelda so you can keep the realism would be a nice addition.
- Needs lot more enemy variety and mix them up better as well (you already have super natural stuff in there, no excuse for not having Chinese dragons or flying fish things or crazy stuff).
- Game needs more XP and general upgrade stuff. Not just new moves.
+ The design of the combat system is great, just holding either L1 or R1 feels right for different stances. Also, at last a fighting game that recognises actual physics.
+ The game has probably the most impressive crowd simulation around. Not talking about the army bits but just in general, how a huge group move around accordingly to your movement, how they throw a balanced number of fighters against you (those in the back commenting and cheering) and how the colored attack system makes this manageable in the first place. You actually have the ability to play with a cool head when you're outnumbered one to a dozen or more.
+ There are checkpoints between the various stages of a boss fight.
+ QTE event doesn't always mean instant failure if one press is missed.
+ Kai missions were fun and well made diversions.
That's the gameplay. Besides that, I felt that the game had a very good story-arc, it had good music (wouldn't say it's the best but sometime it's just brilliant like during the part where you fight Whiptails body guards or the small cues to Nariko about to kick some ass..etc). I felt that the traversal between the different lands was pretty much non existent and it felt like they were just past the hills from each other (you don't actually see any traversal between the spots at all). Again, story presentation is really taken to the next level here. You can hear it in their voices when they physically react to each other, how the faces move like real faces should..etc. It's a good adventure.
A clean 8 out of 10.
Fess
Member
I don't know, it's like it's more than just a game. It's almost like a movie. A good one, not the crappy pupeteer ones we're usually getting. It really shows that the game has been on the drawing board for a long time. Everything just fits together perfectly. The art and design of the characters and the world, the dialogues, the story etc. It's all believable at the end.dammitmattt said:
It definitely has some flaws though, a few serious ones, but the complete package is still above everything else I've played so far this gen.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
flarkminator said:
I think it makes more sense personally to dodge when more than one enemy is attacking rather than press a guard button: in part their system is a necessary and thus not counter-intuitive derivation of the fact that each stance can block one kind of attack and if you receive two different kinds of attack or an attack you cannot block you know you have to dodge.
I have to check (I do not want to talk out of my butt), but IIRC you can block more than one attack at a time if both attacks are of the same kind.
For a sequel they could allow you maybe to quickly switch stance between the two very close attacks (they would make it so two different attacks would come at you with slight pre-determined delay, well at least sometimes to give you some variety) to block both kinds of attacks and counter them both with special attack that affects both of your attackers. Maybe it is possible already in this game, I have not tried this in depth (I still suck at proper countering).
Do you find it counter-intuitive in fighting games not to be able to block low attacks with the same guard/block move you use for upper attacks ?
The game does a good job explaining the various stances, the blocking, and the need to evade some attacks.
I call counter-intuitive something that goes against what the game trains me to do: evading does not seem extraneous to the game IMHO.
flarkminator said:
Uh NO...your only choice is not dodge. You have many choices...you can counter ONE of the attacks - thus getting rid of one of those enemies....you can continue a POWER stance combo, which will take out all and any type of enemy around you...that is my favorite. When I'm surrounded by lots of hardcore enemies as well as the odds and sods - POWER stance combos work a treat and destroy them all. Lastly you can do an aeriel combo to pick off the little ones... You have lots of choices in these situations, just sounds like you don't know what you're doing with the combat system at all.
Came home a bit drunk and played til 5am this morning. Performance-wise, chapter 3 seems a bit smoother than the earlier ones. The Kai missions are jaw-droppingly beautiful (does this game get even better looking?) For those bemoaning the pacing decisions, I see where you are coming from but I find the splintered narrative threads to be a refreshing change. From frame 1 this game has been presented as if it were a feature film of sorts, and I think the hard cuts from scene to scene drive that point home. It feels like a movie as a result.
One thing about the physics. They are very floaty. Objects don't seem to have enough mass. And when you interact with wooden tables or toss goons into stone walls it just feels so flat. This extends to both Kai and Nariko's movements as well. They don't feel grounded.
Anyway, I will hopefully finish the game by tomorrow night. I am enjoying the game more than I thought I would. But I think that's just because I'm such a sucker for this type of genre (be it games or movies).
One thing about the physics. They are very floaty. Objects don't seem to have enough mass. And when you interact with wooden tables or toss goons into stone walls it just feels so flat. This extends to both Kai and Nariko's movements as well. They don't feel grounded.
Anyway, I will hopefully finish the game by tomorrow night. I am enjoying the game more than I thought I would. But I think that's just because I'm such a sucker for this type of genre (be it games or movies).
freethought
Member
Personally I thought the game was excellently paced. Movement from one encounter to the next, one playstyle to another and the way the narrative shifted was superbly done.
In terms of combat I think HS leaves GoW in the dirt. Sure GoW has fun combat, but it neither looks nor feels as satisfying as HS. I was worried the kill-counters would ruin the pacing, but camera switches aren't too frequent and most of the moves are fairly quick.
The super-style moves feel superfluous though, at least they have a button free for jump in HS2, or at least somewhere to stick the interact button when they put jump on X. It's not that I felt HS needed a jump, but it definitely needs some platforming. Even the "Hero sequences" were a rarity.
In terms of combat I think HS leaves GoW in the dirt. Sure GoW has fun combat, but it neither looks nor feels as satisfying as HS. I was worried the kill-counters would ruin the pacing, but camera switches aren't too frequent and most of the moves are fairly quick.
The super-style moves feel superfluous though, at least they have a button free for jump in HS2, or at least somewhere to stick the interact button when they put jump on X. It's not that I felt HS needed a jump, but it definitely needs some platforming. Even the "Hero sequences" were a rarity.
Angelcurio
Member
I bought the game yesterday and just started playing it right now. I am on the second chapter, in the fox boss battle.
The game is really fun, but the QTE implementation is really killing the experience. You have less that one second to press the buttons in this boss fight, and if you miss a sequence, instead of simply restarting it, they refill half of the boss life energy =/.
Sometimes i even wonder if they actually beta tested the QTE parts >_>
The game is really fun, but the QTE implementation is really killing the experience. You have less that one second to press the buttons in this boss fight, and if you miss a sequence, instead of simply restarting it, they refill half of the boss life energy =/.
Sometimes i even wonder if they actually beta tested the QTE parts >_>
flarkminator
Member
deepbrown said:
I know exactly what I'm doing with the combat system. But there is how a game plays on paper, and there is how a game plays in the hands of a human being. Human beings who have to take into account human reaction time and feeling.
What I'm referring to is the situation of a blue and a yellow attack coming at you at the very same time. In a situation like that, the optimal (as in this decision affords me the highest advantage and least disadvantage) choice is to dodge, which I personally think is counter-intuitive to a system that trains me to counter when I see pretty colors.
Feel free to love the game, but please don't assume I haven't studied the game.
Panajev2001a said:
Hmm. I see what you're saying. Possibly that was their philosophy on the matter. But personally I think they have set a precedent that as a player when I see a color my reaction should be to either attack them before they attack me, to wait for them and counter, or to roll out of the way. And I assume, I ASSUME, since the game never really told what it's preferred choice I make WAS, that my preferred choice should be to wait and counter.
And with that assumption I find it counter intuitive to have to roll away from a double colored attack. Interesting, I guess if instead I assumed always roll when I see colours it would not be counter intuitive.
Correct, to ME the game trains me to counter colored attacks. And when I see two colors at me, my brain assumes it should wait and counter and invariably that got me hit. So I started dodging.
Edit: I don't want to come off OVERLY harsh on the game. I'm literally nitpicking on minute things because I think the game had loads and loads of potential. I want them to learn from their mistakes when they makes Heavenly Sword 2 =). I think the game is a solid 8.5, but I bias heavily towards game play over art, which this game is a monumental achievement artistically. It's very beautiful.
Mr. Mister
Member
i might be wrong but isnt one of the pretty color attacks unblockable (red?) and thus has to be evaded?
flarkminator said:
Don't presume that I'm not a human being and don't have human reaction times and feelings...I'm playing the game too. And my reaction to lots of different enemies around me is not to dodge...it IS to counter...it IS to do an aeriel combo...it IS to do a POWER stance combo - and I don't get hit, or hurt.
Why can't you do what I'm doing if you've studied it so well?
The game is completely under rated and I know why.
It tries to cater to the casual and hardcore gamer. Where as games like DMC and NG just cater to the hardcore gamers. There is a ton of depth to HS combat system , If Used correctly you can kick tremendous ass very quickly. But they also made it where someone can take 10 times longer to finish the same scene by just mashing buttons.
By far one of the best games I have played this year over all.
It tries to cater to the casual and hardcore gamer. Where as games like DMC and NG just cater to the hardcore gamers. There is a ton of depth to HS combat system , If Used correctly you can kick tremendous ass very quickly. But they also made it where someone can take 10 times longer to finish the same scene by just mashing buttons.
By far one of the best games I have played this year over all.
nelsonroyale
Member
Im on the second chapter
and the game feels nothing like NG or DMC. Really so far it has been fantastic...there is obviously great scope for adding breadth to the gameplay, and world interactivity. But the fighting engine is solid, and the presentation and music are great...the graphics and art especially are some of the best on any system.
whiptail fight
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
My disagreement with you on this is so powerful that it could implode the keyboard I'm typing this on O_OJB1981 said:
Seriously, I've been going on and on in this thread how I felt the exactly the opposite of what you just said there. The way they are grounded, and the way their weapons interact with enemies (or in case of Kai, the way she jumps over obstacles) is tremendously satisfying, and to me is better than any other game of this kind.
Marconelly said:
Well said...the floaty-ness of Nariko's counters and the aeriel combos are not present throughout her combat - they are just for effect and beautiful/stylish additions. You can really feel the weight of the blades...feel the impacts, and they are really connected with the world and the enemies. Very satisfying.
sprocket said:
Oui...plus the game doesn't force you to find the depth from the outset. So a lot of people...who aren't too interested might not find it, especially if they don't play on Hell mode. There are some moments where you need to find the depth. I feel a lot of the criticisms are from people who are still in the casual phase.
dammitmattt
Banned
Marconelly said:
There are two problems with the hero sequences: the buttons are too small on the screen and your window to input the commands is too small. It's basically the same timing as it was with Spider-Man 3 but for some reason there is a lot less bitching about it here.
Speaking of the first boss fight, I feel that you are punished too harshly because if you beat the boss but fail the hero sequence, you have to then get another full combo (or two) of hits on the boss before you have the chance to perform the hero sequence, extending the possibly of dying at the boss which then leads to having to fight his henchmen all over again. However, I'm midway through Chapter 3 and it hasn't really been a problem since that first boss.
spwolf said:
You sure are quick to defend! I'm a big fan of the PS3 having a BR drive because it has become my default movie player, so don't get me wrong. However, the loading times in HS are outrageously long, and I was questioning if the BR drive had anything to do with it.
womfalcs3 said:
I'm fully aware of that, though I'm not fully up to speed with the exact data transfer stats. It's just odd that an action game that installs a large chunk of data on the hard drive still has such annoying loading issues.
Anyone get occasional massive stuttering in some of the cutscenes? Just to make sure it wasn't my BD drive PS3, I played some Resistance last night, played the first level and watched some cut scenes and everything was smooth as butter.
Are you guys seeing the same thing? It's impossible to not notice.
Btw, the more my experience with the game sinks in, the more I like about it.
Are you guys seeing the same thing? It's impossible to not notice.
Btw, the more my experience with the game sinks in, the more I like about it.
dammitmattt
Banned
JB1981 said:
Yeah. It happens sometimes.
Anyway, I just finished the game. I enjoyed myself, but I thought the overall experience felt unpolished and unfinished, highlighted by the choppy frame rate. I do like the theory of the battle system, but the execution is less than ideal thanks to the frame rate and "sticky" blocking system. Another complaint is that they built these beautfiul environments but you have absolutely no freedom to explore them. Some of God of War's best moments are the exploration sections where you are searching for items to build up your character. Most of the other positives and negatives have been touched upon, but I do think that the scores in the 9 range are ridiculously high for a game this unpolished. I would give it a solid 6.5/10, and I do look forward to a bigger, more polished sequel.
nelsonroyale
Member
dammitmattt said:
to 6.5 seems very low...but that is taste I suppose. On artistic and aural merit alone I would give it a higher score
Just slit the shrinkwrap last night and started this game.
Ayuh, Heavenly Sword gives me the same feeling I've had with other great games like Metroid Prime and RE4: "Damn, this is a special piece of software."
The cinematics and art design are breathtakingly beautiful and I'm finding the gameplay solid and surprisingly varied. I do NOT like the motion controls, however, and I find the lip-synching issue bitterly disappointing because it seems so sloppy when compared to the rest of the game.
Just reached the first boss and I've gotten my ass kicked, but so far, this looks to be a showcase game. Here's to hoping my experiences stay positive next time I return to that boss. :lol
Ayuh, Heavenly Sword gives me the same feeling I've had with other great games like Metroid Prime and RE4: "Damn, this is a special piece of software."
The cinematics and art design are breathtakingly beautiful and I'm finding the gameplay solid and surprisingly varied. I do NOT like the motion controls, however, and I find the lip-synching issue bitterly disappointing because it seems so sloppy when compared to the rest of the game.
Just reached the first boss and I've gotten my ass kicked, but so far, this looks to be a showcase game. Here's to hoping my experiences stay positive next time I return to that boss. :lol
hukasmokincaterpillar
Member
JB1981 said:
Do you have a 20gb hdd by chance? I had some sound stuttering/lip syncing issues, I wouldn't call them massive but they were annoying at times. I was wondering if streaming from the smaller drive might be the culprit.
As for the "dark side of BRD" comment, that's a bit hard to swallow considering other games like Uncharted won't have a loading screen through the entire game (according to ND). Then again, that's Naughty Dog...
freethought
Member
hukasmokincaterpillar said:
I think it's worth noting that once you get started, and assuming you don't die, you could play right through without seeing a single loading screen. Since the game is so short and easy it's hard to get frustrated, at least until you go through in Hell mode.