Support NeoGAF

[Kisaya]

Why are you pretending to fast? That's so dishonest.
And there is no requirement that people that aren't fasting have to eat somewhere away from people that are fasting. I've never heard of that. Usually, if you do that, it's out of respect for others because you munching on food in front of people fasting is going to stir their appetites too.

He's not being dishonest cause he wants to, it's something he has to hide to avoid getting himself and his family in trouble.

As for me, sometimes people don't know the reason why I'm not fasting and they'll assume "Oh look, she's obviously disrespecting her family and the holy month. She's not a practicing Muslim, blah blah etc etc"

People just want a reason to talk shit.

 

[Sayah]

Oh, well sorry I've read your posts out of context. Didn't have all that background information.
But anyway, people like to talk shit. Let them keep talking. They're only hurting themselves. I don't know if their fasts will account for anything if they're talking shit like that during Ramadan.

 

[Grim1ock]

The problem is, I hate fasting and I am not Muslim, but I always have to watch my back during ramadhan because if someone catches me out in public eating, I'll have to deal with that getting back to my family. It's the worst.



There was a video I watched, it was a part of a series of videos that had muslims debating other muslims about particular points. One was on the role of females in society, and how they should behave, and what sort of interactions were appropriate. A lot of scholars are starting to come out in support of giving women more respect, and of understanding that a woman can be in a position like... manager of a lawyer firm, so she'll have to casually converse with many men - and that sort of interaction is okay.

Kinitari,

I find your posts very fascinating. Can i ask you a genuine honest question? You rail on islam on even things like fasting and yet you keep it under wraps because of your family. How do you do this?

I mean if i was in your position, the guilt and secrecy would be too much for me. I guess what i am trying to ask is how do you manage with this double life?

 

[Salih]

Ramazan already started? Damn. Won't participate this year. Its summer and days are too long.

wut? Since when is it allowed to skip ramadan when the days are too long for someone?

 

[BocoDragon]

Do you know anything at all about India's history?
Oh man, why am I in the off-topic section again.

Why yes I do.

Any religion that respected the authority of the Vedas would be absorbed into the Hindu whole.

Islam didn't and that's why it came into conflict. And Buddhism, usually subversive in its transmission to other countries, also did not recognize the Vedas, having to draw explicit lines of separation between it and the assumptions of its home culture, I suppose.

 

[Ashes]

Why yes I do.

Any religion that respected the authority of the Vedas would be absorbed into the Hindu whole.

Islam didn't and that's why it came into conflict. And Buddhism, usually subversive in its transmission to other countries, also did not recognize the Vedas, having to draw explicit lines of separation between it and the assumptions of its home culture, I suppose.

So what happened with the Muslim invaders? How come India is mostly Hindu still?

 

[Sayah]

Why yes I do.

Any religion that respected the authority of the Vedas would be absorbed into the Hindu whole.

Islam didn't and that's why it came into conflict. And Buddhism, usually subversive in its transmission to other countries, also did not recognize the Vedas, having to draw explicit lines of separation between it and the assumptions of its home culture, I suppose.

What does that even mean? Islam is not in conflict with Hinduism. Muslims that are not extremist (which is the vast majority of them) are willing to recognize that it's actually God's intention for there to be many different races and cultures and religions throughout the world. And they know that living with them in harmony is one of the principle goals of Islam.

I suggest you also look up Muslim rule in India like the Mughals or maybe emperor Akbar. Most of these Mughal rulers mingled with the Hindu customs but still kept their religious practices in tact. And as far as history accounts, they didn't force Hindus to convert to Islam because such a practice is actually unIslamic. Even in civil society, you have examples of temples or tombs where both Hindus and Muslims go to pray. Examples presently exist in areas like Ajmer.

There are many areas in India where Muslims and Hindus are living in harmony. The places where there are conflicts doesn't mean that Islam is to blame. There are various other factors to consider such as the caste system which has been one of the primary reasons for divisions in India.

 

[Kinitari]

Kinitari,

I find your posts very fascinating. Can i ask you a genuine honest question? You rail on islam on even things like fasting and yet you keep it under wraps because of your family. How do you do this?

I mean if i was in your position, the guilt and secrecy would be too much for me. I guess what i am trying to ask is how do you manage with this double life?

I have no problems answering. Hmmm... Sometimes I wasn't too just let it out, and be honest. But I am a realist, and in end I love my family and I don't want any hardships on them, having an openly atheist son would cause my mom so many problems. I couldn't do that to her.

 

[BocoDragon]

What does that even mean? Islam is not in conflict with Hinduism. Muslims that are not extremist (which is the vast majority of them) are willing to recognize that it's actually God's intention for there to be many different races and cultures and religions throughout the world. And they know that living with them in harmony is one of the principle goals of Islam.

I suggest you also look up Muslim rule in India like the Mughals or maybe emperor Akbar. Most of these Mughal rulers mingled with the Hindu customs but still kept their religious practices in tact. And as far as history accounts, they didn't force Hindus to convert to Islam because such a practice is actually unIslamic. Even in civil society, you have examples of temples or tombs where both Hindus and Muslims go to pray. Examples presently exist in areas like Ajmer.

There are many areas in India where Muslims and Hindus are living in harmony. The places where there are conflicts doesn't mean that Islam is to blame. There are various other factors to consider such as the caste system which has been one of the primary reasons for divisions in India.

And in a similar way, nothing you've said is in conflict with what I said.

My only point is to say that Islam is resistant to syncretism, not that it's combatitive with other faiths.

Maybe that keeps the religion pure.... But it is therefore a very non-subversive religion.

 

[Ashes]

And in a similar way, nothing you've said is in conflict with what I said.

My only point is to say that Islam is resistant to syncretism, not that it's combatitive with other faiths.

Maybe that keeps the religion pure.... But it is therefore a very non-subversive religion.

What are you on about? ;P

 

[Sayah]

And in a similar way, nothing you've said is in conflict with what I said.

My only point is to say that Islam is resistant to syncretism, not that it's combatitive with other faiths.

Maybe that keeps the religion pure.... But it is therefore a very non-subversive religion.

Monotheism vs. polytheism. Muslims and Hindus are bound to having opposing views in matters of faith. Differences like that are not reconcilable so achieving syncretism is not possible. It's unrealistic. But regardless, that's why there is this.

109:1 Say: O disbelievers!
109:2 I worship not that which ye worship;
109:3 Nor worship ye that which I worship.
109:4 And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
109:5 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
109:6 Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.

You basically leave other people alone. Just because there are differences doesn't mean that you have to reconcile those differences. You just have to learn to respect/tolerate them for their differences. In fact, many Muslims may look at Hindus or others not as sinners, unbelievers or whoever that need to be looked down on for their beliefs but as potential future Muslims. Which is why the work of dawah is so important for many Muslims.


But, anyway, my particular problem is with this statement.

Its the reason why it's the only religion to forge divisions in places like India, which was usually accommodating to all differing manners of religion.

 

[BocoDragon]

Monotheism vs. polytheism. Muslims and Hindus are bound to having opposing views in matters of faith. Differences like that are not reconcilable so achieving syncretism is not possible. It's unrealistic. But regardless, that's why there is this.

The ultimate ground of all being in Hindu is "Brahman". It's basically just Allah. Of course syncretism would be possible. It only gets sticky on the lesser gods. It only gets sticky on the idolatry... Which was my whole point. If Islam thought the idols were an irrelevance, then maybe it could slip into the culture's belief structure and inform the Hindus about the true nature of Allah.

Again I'm coming from the perspective of learning about Buddhism, which is often so subversive that I admire that quality of it as a delivery method for helping people find the truth (and I assume that such a character of religion could be used to deliver non-Buddhist truths, such as monotheism). It so ignores concerns of "form" that right now you have Christians, scientism-based atheists and even Muslims who think that it is "compatable" with their existing beliefs. In some ways I think it is not compatable with these exististing belief structures, but it gets its foot in the door in a startlingly effective way.

It's ok if you find that uninteresting, or a position that is compromising to religion, but I find it interesting how this religion has penetrated white Christian + secular America, to a degree that Islam simply won't. Thought there might be something to learn, there. My 2 cents.

But, anyway, my particular problem is with this statement.

I stand by it. A million beliefs get absorbed into Hindu culture. Islam says "no, we have the complete truth and yes it is different than yours". It therefore forged a separation of religious culture on the Indian subcontinent... And in a land of a million existing beliefs, that is remarkable.

I'm not talking about Islam being combatitive or anything.. But I am saying it is "Non-water soluble". It doesn't mix. That may keep it pure, but it keeps it out of many cultures.

 

[Ashes]

Stubborn.

 

[Sayah]

The ultimate ground of all being in Hindu is "Brahman". It's basically just Allah. Of course syncretism would be possible. It only gets sticky on the lesser gods. It only gets sticky on the idolatry... Which was my whole point. If Islam thought the idols were an irrelevance, then maybe it could slip into the culture's belief structure and inform the Hindus about the true nature of Allah.

Again I'm coming from the perspective of learning about Buddhism, which is often so subversive that I admire that quality of it as a delivery method for helping people find the truth (and I assume that such a character of religion could be used to deliver non-Buddhist truths, such as monotheism). It so ignores concerns of "form" that right now you have Christians, scientism-based atheists and even Muslims who think that it is "compatable" with their existing beliefs. In some ways I think it is not compatable with these exististing belief structures, but it gets its foot in the door in a startlingly effective way.

It's ok if you find that uninteresting, or a position that is compromising to religion, but I find it interesting how this religion has penetrated white Christian + secular America, to a degree that Islam simply won't. Thought there might be something to learn, there. My 2 cents.




I stand by it. A million beliefs get absorbed into Hindu culture. Islam says "no, we have the complete truth and yes it is different than yours". It therefore forged a separation of religious culture on the Indian subcontinent... And in a land of a million existing beliefs, that is remarkable.

I'm not talking about Islam being combatitive or anything.. But I am saying it is "Non-water soluble". It doesn't mix. That may keep it pure, but it keeps it out of many cultures.

I'd have to respectfully disagree with your stance. I think it's important to have interfaith discourses and dialogue in order to understand each others' religion, earn respect and emphasize the values of peace that each religion preaches. However, I do not see how fundamental and key tenets of two religions (such as simply monotheism vs. polytheism) can be syncretized or reconciled when they offer completely different truths or realities.

I'd also have to disagree with your statement that Islam is not capable of mixing or mingling in with other cultures. I look at it the complete opposite way. In fact, the reason why Islam has spread all over the world is because it is flexible enough to conform with different cultural practices as long as those practices don't contradict the fundamental tenets of Islam. People convert to and adopt a new religion but still maintain a lot of their cultural background. This can be seen with Muslims throughout the world. Since we're talking about India, it's clear to see that a lot of Indian and Pakistani Muslims still have festivals/celebrations that do not fall under Islam but are part of culture. There are Indian Muslims that will partake in celebrations for Hindu festivals like Holi or Diwali but that doesn't mean they suddenly syncretize or compromise their core religious values. You can also look at weddings. Muslim weddings can vary depending on country/culture/etc. Basically, the lifestyle for Muslims is varied and different throughout the world and a lot of that is because of different cultural practices. So I don't think it's exactly accurate to say that Islam doesn't mix or that there is one "pure" form of Islam that is resistant to change. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as a bit harsh.

 

[F#A#Oo]

BocoDragon clearly needs to start reading up on India and especially recent developments over there such as Gopalgarh atrocity last year and more recently people like Parvez Imroz has helped highlight the mass open graves in Kashmir which is said to be as high as 70,000...

Those of you interested try finding a documentry by Channel 4 called "Kashmir's Torture Trail".

 

[kobashi100]

What do most Muslims think of Sharia? I work with a Muslim and he says he hates it, but he follows almost everything else (no drinking alcohol, fasting during ramadan, prayer etc..)

He keeps talking about how it's going on in Mali right now

he hates sharia but has he ever lived under sharia law.

if he hasnt then I dont think he can make a judgement on it to be honest. Sharia is not just about harsh punishments.

The Sharia for example has an economic system and social system but nobody mentions that as they have not actually studied the sharia one bit.

all they see is the harsh penal code.

anyway Ramadan Mubarak!

Moon has been sighted so tonight is the first night of Ramdhan, first fast commences on Friday 20th August 2012.

This is what the Messenger of Allah (SAW) ordered us when he said:

"Whenever you sight the new moon (of the month of Ramadan) observe fast, and when you sight it (the new moon of Shawwal) break it, and if the sky is cloudy for you, then observe fast for thirty days." [Sahih Muslim. HADITH No 2378. Narrated by Abu Hurayrah]

 

[Ashes]

Happy ramadhan.

 

[Salih]

Ramadan Mubarak to everyone!

In these times stay away from these forums and such; use the time for praying and reading out of the quran.

 

[Nemo]

Man, Tarawih killed me. I don't get why my mosque does the first few really long and the rest really fast :/ Standing still for too long is not good for people

 

[Joel Was Right]

A US judge has ruled that a Muslim congregation has the right to occupy their newly built mosque, overturning a lower court order. But county officials said they could not complete a final inspection to make the building ready for use on Thursday as the month of Ramadan begins. Wednesday's ruling was the latest episode in a two-year legal battle over the Rutherford County mosque. Residents filed a lawsuit against the place of worship in 2010. The opponents said Islam was not a real religion and claimed Muslims wanted to overthrow the US constitution in favour of Islamic law.
​

Read full article

 

[SouSouRocket]

Ramadan kareem everybody! What are your fasting times where you are? For us in Ohio tomorrow it's 4:35-9:01 PM... yikes. I thought we had it bad but my friend told me for them it's 3 AM to 10 PM!! Ugh! It's going to be rough going this year!

 

[Kisaya]

Ramadan kareem everybody! What are your fasting times where you are? For us in Ohio tomorrow it's 4:35-9:01 PM... yikes. I thought we had it bad but my friend told me for them it's 3 AM to 10 PM!! Ugh! It's going to be rough going this year!

4:09 AM - 8:23 PM here (Brooklyn, NY). I'm not so worried about the time though. What sucks is that I have work from 3PM - 9PM and I have to turn away IKEA food </3

 

[SouSouRocket]

4:09 AM - 8:23 PM here (Brooklyn, NY). I'm not so worried about the time though. What sucks is that I have work from 3PM - 9PM and I have to turn away IKEA food </3

You don't have to turn it away, grab some and save it! One of the laws of Ramadan is that free or otherwise amazing food appears out of nowhere (someone brings in cupcakes, free pizza, etc) and the way you deal with it is by grabbing your share, tucking it into a napkin or paper plate and then fixating on it all day like Gollum, waiting for 8:23 PM when you can just wolf it down.

 

[Kisaya]

You don't have to turn it away, grab some and save it! One of the laws of Ramadan is that free or otherwise amazing food appears out of nowhere (someone brings in cupcakes, free pizza, etc) and the way you deal with it is by grabbing your share, tucking it into a napkin or paper plate and then fixating on it all day like Gollum, waiting for 8:23 PM when you can just wolf it down.

Oh I am definitely stashing it, no worries ;3

 

[Ashes]

Man, Tarawih killed me. I don't get why my mosque does the first few really long and the rest really fast :/ Standing still for too long is not good for people

Presumably they are reading in the order they are laid out in the Quran, so that they will have finished all chapters by the 27th or 28th night.

Ramadan kareem everybody! What are your fasting times where you are? For us in Ohio tomorrow it's 4:35-9:01 PM... yikes. I thought we had it bad but my friend told me for them it's 3 AM to 10 PM!! Ugh! It's going to be rough going this year!

Just googled, and for Londoners it's 3:15am to 9:07pm.

 

[F#A#Oo]

Yeah London is long...just like last year.

My local mosque is Pakistani based they are having the first Tarawih tonight so they're 1 day after what seems to be the majority of the Muslim community. Bet there will be arguments from the local Somali and Arab communities.

Ah well...

 

[Gregorn]

Just out of curiosity, why do different places have different times for fasting?

 

[Wazzim]

Loooooong day of fasting today, ate around 4 am. and am fasting until 10 pm. Have a 9 hour workday too, fun times.

Just out of curiosity, why do different places have different times for fasting?

Because they are different places? (time zones)

You stop eating when the sun comes up and can start when it is dawn.

 

[Nemo]

We have from 4 am to 10 pm as well. Longest I've done, but next year and the year after will be even longer!

Presumably they are reading in the order they are laid out in the Quran, so that they will have finished all chapters by the 27th or 28th night.

Yeah but I mean during the event. We do 20 rakat, so the first 4 they do really long and then the rest are a lot shorter

 

[d[-_-]b]

Ramadan Mubarak :O

 

[Ashes]

Yeah but I mean during the event. We do 20 rakat, so the first 4 they do really long and then the rest are a lot shorter

The second surah in the Quran is the longest surah in the Quran.


And just in case anybody is wondering, the first surah, the imam is expected to say at every rakhat.

 

[Azih]

I'm not talking about Islam being combatitive or anything.. But I am saying it is "Non-water soluble". It doesn't mix. That may keep it pure, but it keeps it out of many cultures.

Two things.

First, Judaism and Christianity both have histories in India that are longer than Islam's and both have them have been as 'Non-water soluble' as Islam as you define it (not submerging into the accepting Hindu majority). You seem to be addressing something about monotheism in general rather than Islam in particular

Secondly, you are way overstating how monolithic or separate Islam is from the regions it resides in. Take a look at the Sufi saints that were most responsible for the spread of Islam in South Asia for example especially the Chistis. Historically Islam has taken on and absorbed many of the cultural aspects and traditions of the regions it spread to and *have* mixed unlike your contention. Sure the core remains the same but everything else has been very flexible.

It's only in the late twentieth century with globalization and huge amounts of Saudi oil money that the idea has started to spread that people need to act like Wahhabi Bedouins to be 'true muslim'.

 

[Necromanti]

Wow, it's crazy for some of you who have to fast until as late as 9 or 10 PM. In some Arab countries (like the UAE), work hours are significantly reduced, and then Iftar is usually around 7 PM or so. I really wish that drinking of water, at the very least, was permitted for the sake of people's health. Don't want people getting all dehydrated.

Two things.

First, Judaism and Christianity both have histories in India that are longer than Islam's and both have them have been as 'Non-water soluble' as Islam as you define it (not submerging into the accepting Hindu majority). You seem to be addressing something about monotheism in general rather than Islam in particular

Secondly, you are way overstating how monolithic or separate Islam is from the regions it resides in. Take a look at the Sufi saints that were most responsible for the spread of Islam in South Asia for example especially the Chistis. Historically Islam has taken on and absorbed many of the cultural aspects and traditions of the regions it spread to and *have* mixed completely unlike your contention. Sure the core remains the same but everything else has been very flexible.

It's only in the late twentieth century with globalization and huge amounts of Saudi oil money that the idea has started to spread that people need to act like Wahhabi Bedouins to be 'true muslim'.

Good post. Your final point reminds me of the situation with the type of Christians that exist in the United States. But yes, Islam is not exempt from the characteristics of cultures that have taken part in shaping all other belief-ways and religions. Change and adaptation are at the core of culture.

 

[Ashes]

Two things.


Secondly, you are way overstating how monolithic or separate Islam is from the regions it resides in. Take a look at the Sufi saints that were most responsible for the spread of Islam in South Asia for example especially the Chistis. Historically Islam has taken on and absorbed many of the cultural aspects and traditions of the regions it spread to and *have* mixed unlike your contention. Sure the core remains the same but everything else has been very flexible.'.

If Sufism counts, does that not directly counter Boco's point about syncretism?

 

[Azih]

If Sufism counts, does that not directly counter Boco's point about syncretism?

It should. It seems a lot of what Boco considers to be the entirety of Islam is from looking at the Wahhabi/Salafist image of it.

 

[Salih]

salaam everyone,

question: Do we muslims believe in the return of Isa (Jesus)? Some people say yes, some others say that is not that clear. Also, what bout the antichrist who will come and that Isa will slay him? Do we sunnis believe that?

 

[replicashooter]

Greetings folks, I was hopping around youtube when I came across this video about the hidden origins of Islam that I'd like to share and get your opinions on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKzXzCCVC1I&feature=related

Clarification is requested on the following points:

The oldest datable Koran is from 705AD to 715AD, 70 years after the death of Muhammed.

That it was written in a vowel free shorthand, similar to Hebrew script which allows upto 30 different interpretations of each word.

The forensic snapshots showing washed off and overwritten texts showing different words/arrangement

1/5th of the Koran contains unintelligible words or nonsensical phrasing that is eradicated when viewed from a Syro-Aramaic perspective, which was the major language of the whole region at the time of Muhammed during which written Arabic was in its infancy

Al Tabari identified Hebrew, Latin, Greek, Persian, Abyssinian and Syriac words in the Koran

"Be not sad your Lord has placed a little river beneath you" vs "Be not sad your Lord has made your delivery legitimate". "Look at your food and drink, look at your ass" vs "Look at your condition and look at your overall states". "End of the world the Earth steps forward vs "End of the world the Earth splits open"

Idea of the veil vs the priestly belt

10 wide eyed virgins in comparison to eternal comfort with your wife

Thanks

 

[SquiddyCracker]

10 wide eyed virgins in comparison to eternal comfort with your wife

Thanks

Can't watch the video right now but that kinda made me chuckle.
Do muslims really think that they are served by virgins in the afterlife or is that some misconception?
If it's actually the case, then does the serving involve sex and do women get a bunch of male virgins when die?

 

[replicashooter]

Can't watch the video right now but that kinda made me chuckle.
Do muslims really think that they are served by virgins in the afterlife or is that some misconception?
If it's actually the case, then does the serving involve sex and do women get a bunch of male virgins when die?

Well, the main tenet of this video is that the original language that the Koran was composed in was not Arabic and during the codification numerous errors in translation found their way into the scripture.

A more accurate translation of what became wide eyed virgins would be white crystal clear grapes. This interpretation also correlates with 7 other verses that state eternal contentment with their wives along with the common Christian perspective on grapes/soul/fruit of the vine in the Fathers kingdom.

 

[Speedymanic]

A US judge has ruled that a Muslim congregation has the right to occupy their newly built mosque, overturning a lower court order. But county officials said they could not complete a final inspection to make the building ready for use on Thursday as the month of Ramadan begins. Wednesday's ruling was the latest episode in a two-year legal battle over the Rutherford County mosque. Residents filed a lawsuit against the place of worship in 2010. The opponents said Islam was not a real religion and claimed Muslims wanted to overthrow the US constitution in favour of Islamic law.
​

Read full article

This always baffles me. How, exactly, do they think such an event would occur? Are there 3-4 Muslims per non Muslim and do the majority of those Muslims hold positions of power in the police force and military? Maybe I'm wrong but that, to me, seems the only way they could ever hope to overthrow the US gov and change the constitution.

Seems very silly and no different to the claims that the UK was being taken over the Muslims. Crazy.

 

[F#A#Oo]

Greetings folks, I was hopping around youtube when I came across this video about the hidden origins of Islam that I'd like to share and get your opinions on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKzXzCCVC1I&feature=related

Clarification is requested on the following points:

The oldest datable Koran is from 705AD to 715AD, 70 years after the death of Muhammed.

That it was written in a vowel free shorthand, similar to Hebrew script which allows upto 30 different interpretations of each word.

The forensic snapshots showing washed off and overwritten texts showing different words/arrangement

1/5th of the Koran contains unintelligible words or nonsensical phrasing that is eradicated when viewed from a Syro-Aramaic perspective, which was the major language of the whole region at the time of Muhammed during which written Arabic was in its infancy

Al Tabari identified Hebrew, Latin, Greek, Persian, Abyssinian and Syriac words in the Koran

"Be not sad your Lord has placed a little river beneath you" vs "Be not sad your Lord has made your delivery legitimate". "Look at your food and drink, look at your ass" vs "Look at your condition and look at your overall states". "End of the world the Earth steps forward vs "End of the world the Earth splits open"

Idea of the veil vs the priestly belt

10 wide eyed virgins in comparison to eternal comfort with your wife

Thanks

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Mss/vowel.html

I haven't read the book...but from what's I heard/read...it's reinterpretation with novelty and not really focued on etymology. Luxenberg's Arabic+classica+dialect is adequate but riddled with mistakes. His understanding of syriac is dictionary focused and the understanding of semitic linguistics is amateurish.

 

[Darackutny]

The exclusion of vowels is not uncommon at all. It is the default. Heck, most contemporary writings do not include vowels. The vowels that we find in the Qur'an today are there out of necessity since talheen (mistakes in recitation) is frowned upon.

Just head to any Arabic book store that includes historical writings. Academic editions will usually contain copies of a few pages on the manuscripts. None of these ever have vowels.

The meanings of the texts, even without vowels, are learnt through practice.

Sure, the possibility of tasheefaat are possible with texts that come from one source, but this is not possible with the Qur'an. The Qur'an was preserved through the hearts of the society. The written manuscripts are only complementary, since, as you all know, the Arabic society was one that relied on oral tradition.

 

[Darackutny]

"Be not sad your Lord has placed a little river beneath you" vs "Be not sad your Lord has made your delivery legitimate".

The assumption that the text here is misunderstood by the Muslims is ridiculous.

You see, the reading isn't made by contemporaries. The word sariyaa is expressed to be "little river" by the earlier Qur'anic commentators, including Al-Bara'a bin A'azib (72 AH) a disciple of Mohammad, Ibn Abbas (68 AH) the cousin of Mohammad, and many many others.

These people were actually there when the Qur'an was revealed and compiled and their interpretation of the verses weight more than a fifteenth century German Orientalist.

 

[RustyNails]

The assumption that the text here is misunderstood by the Muslims is ridiculous.

You see, the reading isn't made by contemporaries. The word sariyaa is expressed to be "little river" by the earlier Qur'anic commentators, including Al-Bara'a bin A'azib (72 AH) a disciple of Mohammad, Ibn Abbas (68 AH) the cousin of Mohammad, and many many others.

These people were actually there when the Qur'an was revealed and compiled and their interpretation of the verses weight more than a fifteenth century German Orientalist.

This always boggles me. Orientalists focus too much on the texts, failing to understand that text itself was a foreign concept to early Muslims. Arabs were and largely still are an oral society, much like early African societies. In these societies, the poets held the highest level of respect and admiration because they transmitted the exploits and conquests of their tribes/kingdoms from the beginning of time through poetic words and songs.

 

[F#A#Oo]

This always boggles me. Orientalists focus too much on the texts, failing to understand that text itself was a foreign concept to early Muslims. Arabs were and largely still are an oral society, much like early African societies. In these societies, the poets held the highest level of respect and admiration because they transmitted the exploits and conquests of their tribes/kingdoms from the beginning of time through poetic words and songs.

assalamu alaikum Rusty,

How's your praying coming along? Have you been read Qur'an?

 

[TheContact]

Just out of curiosity, why do different places have different times for fasting?

It's not scientific by any means. It's based off of when you can see the moon. So looking at the Earth from different spots makes you see the moon at different times and that's why. However, if an imam in America in California sees the moon, then people in New York also fast, or vice versa. At least that's how my friend explained it to me.

 

[womfalcs3]

No words can express the joy I get from this picture. May God bless this man.

 

[RustyNails]

assalamu alaikum Rusty,

How's your praying coming along? Have you been read Qur'an?

Walaikum as Salam. My praying has definitely been better than pre-Ramadan, including reading Quran. I make it a point to read Quran 10 minutes before breaking fast every day. My job is really hectic though and I'm out of state half the week. It's been really tough.

 

[replicashooter]

@Darackutny - Thanks for clarifying that, but doesn't the "legitimate" translation make more sense than the "little river"? Did you watch the video?

 

[F#A#Oo]

@Darackutny - Thanks for clarifying that, but doesn't the "legitimate" translation make more sense than the "little river"? Did you watch the video?

No because Maryam (Alayhas Salaam) was suffering with the pregnancy and not having anyone around to assist with the birth. The "little river" is provided to her to drink and the palm tree has dates for her to eat thus making the pregnancy a lot more bearable and giving her sustenance.

Having the voice say the birth is "legitimate" is confusing and makes no sense in any context. A woman is going through all manner of pain/trouble related to birth and the last thing on womans mind would be what others are going to think and say.

Walaikum as Salam. My praying has definitely been better than pre-Ramadan, including reading Quran. I make it a point to read Quran 10 minutes before breaking fast every day. My job is really hectic though and I'm out of state half the week. It's been really tough.

I hear you...Insha'Allah...may Allah make things easy for us...