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[Anaxagoras]

^ Alright, I'll let that one go. How about the other two reasons I've provided?

How about why is it then used differently in verse [22:17] ?

إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ وَٱلَّذِينَ هَادُواْ وَٱلصَّـٰبِـِٔينَ وَٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰ وَٱلۡمَجُوسَ وَٱلَّذِينَ أَشۡرَڪُوٓاْ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يَفۡصِلُ بَيۡنَهُمۡ يَوۡمَ ٱلۡقِيَـٰمَةِ‌ۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىۡءٍ۬ شَہِيدٌ

 

[Anaxagoras]

Both our statements; that Islam is peaceful and that Islam is not peaceful are true.

Ask yourself, is this logical?

Here is what The Law of contradiction states:

Contradictory statements cannot both at the same time be true.

For example the two propositions A is B and A is not B are mutually exclusive. A may be B at one time, and not at another; A may be partly B and partly not B at the same time; but it is impossible to predicate of the same thing, at the same time, and in the same sense, the absence and the presence of the same quality.

This is the statement of the law given by Aristotle. It takes no account of the truth of either proposition; if one is true, the other is not; one of the two must be true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_noncontradiction

Don't you find anything wrong about your statement?

 

[Anaxagoras]

How about I don't care either way?

The chances of you turning myself or anyone into a wahabbi are about as good as Nizar turning myself or any other Muslim here away from Islam, regardless of what either of you post.

Then I am expecting you to become a wahabbi in the few coming next days.

 

[Darackutny]

How about I don't care either way?

The chances of you turning myself or anyone into a wahabbi are about as good as Nizar turning myself or any other Muslim here away from Islam, regardless of what either of you post.

That's fresh. Those differences between Sunnis and Shias are things that each sect have come to live with. I'm not expecting you to jump ship when you learn about Shiasm. Shias have lived with these views for centuries.

How about why is it then used differently in verse [22:17] ?

وتلمس ابن عاشور الفائدة البلاغية من الإتيان بلفظ " الصابئون " موفوعاً ، فقال ما معناه :

إن الرفع في هذا السياق غريب ، فيستوقف القارئ عنده : لماذا رفع هذا الاسم بالذات ، مع أن المألوف في مثل هذا أن ينصب ؟

فيقال : إن هذه الغرابة في رفع الصابئون تناسب غرابة دخول الصابئين في الوعد بالمغفرة ، لأنهم يعبدون الكواكب ، فهم أبعد عن الهدى من اليهود والنصارى ، حتى إنهم يكادون ييأسون من الوعد بالمغفرة والنجاة فنبه بذلك على أن عفو الله عظيم . يشمل كل من آمن بالله واليوم الآخر وعمل صالحاً وإن كان من الصابئين . [انظر تفسير آية المائدة من تفسير ابن عاشور ]

Even though this is a stretch to you, it is a decent justification as to why raf'i is used in the verse.

 

[heidern]

Ask yourself, is this logical?

Here is what The Law of contradiction states:

Contradictory statements cannot both at the same time be true.

For example the two propositions A is B and A is not B are mutually exclusive. A may be B at one time, and not at another; A may be partly B and partly not B at the same time; but it is impossible to predicate of the same thing, at the same time, and in the same sense, the absence and the presence of the same quality.

This is the statement of the law given by Aristotle. It takes no account of the truth of either proposition; if one is true, the other is not; one of the two must be true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_noncontradiction

Don't you find anything wrong about your statement?

No, if you read the bit I bolded and reread my post you'll see I'm right, the key point is that we are using two different definitions of the word peaceful.

 

[Anaxagoras]

وتلمس ابن عاشور الفائدة البلاغية من الإتيان بلفظ " الصابئون " موفوعاً ، فقال ما معناه :

إن الرفع في هذا السياق غريب ، فيستوقف القارئ عنده : لماذا رفع هذا الاسم بالذات ، مع أن المألوف في مثل هذا أن ينصب ؟

فيقال : إن هذه الغرابة في رفع الصابئون تناسب غرابة دخول الصابئين في الوعد بالمغفرة ، لأنهم يعبدون الكواكب ، فهم أبعد عن الهدى من اليهود والنصارى ، حتى إنهم يكادون ييأسون من الوعد بالمغفرة والنجاة فنبه بذلك على أن عفو الله عظيم . يشمل كل من آمن بالله واليوم الآخر وعمل صالحاً وإن كان من الصابئين . [انظر تفسير آية المائدة من تفسير ابن عاشور ]

Even though this is a stretch to you, it is a decent justification as to why raf'i is used in the verse.

Are you even reading what you are copy pasting into this discussion? this is only an explanation to why it is put that way, it doesn't change the fact that it is a grammatical error.

One more time:

إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ وَٱلَّذِينَ هَادُواْ وَٱلصَّـٰبِـِٔينَ وَٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰ

إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ وَٱلَّذِينَ هَادُواْ وَٱلصَّـٰبِـُٔونَ وَٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰ 

Quran [22:17] and [5:69]

They both contain the same exact words and in the same exact order, the only difference is the word:

ٱلصَّـٰبِـُٔونَ
ٱلصَّـٰبِـِٔينَ

If one is grammatically correct the other has to be grammatically incorrect.

 

[Althane]

No, if you read the bit I bolded and reread my post you'll see I'm right, the key point is that we are using two different definitions of the word peaceful.

And we can argue that the nations in the world where Islam is highly recognized as being the prevalent religion are... well, far from peaceful.

Although I'm pretty sure the greatest concentration of Muslims isn't in the Middle East, I think it's Pakistan and India.

Which regularly get close to blowing the everlovin' shit out of each other anyways. Which come from their differences as Hindus and Muslim.

But still, just keep in mind that your saying so doesn't make it so. You can SAY that Islam is inclined to peace all you want, but if you've got peeps like Osama bin Laden and suhc who make their religion their reason for goin to war, it'll never be recognized as such.

And talking to people won't change that, not if you do it here, not if you do it in real life. What you must do is stop those radical leaders who are calling for violence and replace them with more moderate, peace-prone leaders.

THAT is the only way you would ever get people to say Islam is a religion of peace.

 

[Anaxagoras]

No, if you read the bit I bolded and reread my post you'll see I'm right, the key point is that we are using two different definitions of the word peaceful.

Ok, we use different definitions of what is peaceful, non of us is wrong on this point, although my main point was that Islam is a violent religion.

 

[samven582]

If you would have watch the video I posted in the same post I pointed this out you would not have posted this, for it is discussed in the video.

The order of the words have been rearranged in this explanation, the sentence has been split into two and therefore this explanation is pointless.

look at the difference:
original verse:
إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ وَٱلَّذِينَ هَادُواْ وَٱلصَّـٰبِـُٔونَ وَٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰ مَنۡ ءَامَنَ بِٱللَّهِ وَٱلۡيَوۡمِ ٱلۡأَخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَـٰلِحً۬ا فَلَا خَوۡفٌ عَلَيۡهِمۡ وَلَا هُمۡ يَحۡزَنُونَ 

verse in the text you provided:
إن الذين آمنوا والذين هادوا والنصارى ، من آمن بالله ...فلا خوف عليهم ، ولاهم يحزنون ، والصابئون كذلك

Here is the link one more time, this issue that you pasted in your post is discussed at 4:05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-AZ6if0Qlw

This link pretty much refutes any claims that the Quran has "grammatical" mistakes

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Grammar/iltifaat.html

 

[Instigator]

this is where we differ. It might the way of life that needed change. It might be one rule which needed change. As I said not all messenger were successful at doing what they did. many were killed. I will let Atrus talk tomorrow.

What? So if some inuits were hunting small whales exclusively, some messenger came at some point and suggested that hunting seals on ice would be better, that could the extent of the 'message' to these people? Nonsense because it makes anyone that ever said anything, relevant or not, a messenger.

But more importantly, this means people all over the world were sent all these messengers and in the end, these people were taught nothing about god, nothing about changing their ways, nothing related to Islam at all. I'm sorry but that renders the original verse nonsense:

“And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning)” [al-Israa’ 17:15]

All this time, all these thousands of messengers sent and in the end, no warning was given. Illogical.

 

[Darackutny]

Are you even reading what you are copy pasting into this discussion? this is only an explanation to why it is put that way, it doesn't change the fact that it is a grammatical error.

Eh? I thought you were asking for an explanation.

The words being in a similiar structure, doesn't necessarily make it a grammatical error. Plus, you've avoided including the rest of both verses, which goes back to the arguments I posted regarding Al-Sabi'een being the mubtada'a while the khabar is man aman billah, which isn't the same case with the rest of the second verse that you quoted.

 

[Instigator]

Nizar, are you really going to let Darackutny have the last word?

 

[crazy monkey]

do you want to start everything again?
possible Nizar quotes.
can god be bigger than god?
Can he lift flower?
proove it.
irrelevant.
Answer my question.
I have prove my point.
What ever you say is wrong.
Islam is the worst thing that has happened.
All the Abrahamic religion are wrong.
religions are phony.
Does god exist I don't know.
harry potter can be proven to be better book than religious book.
You can't say some thing is does not exist if you just can't see it.
I can scientifically prove faith, love, etc.

 

[Anaxagoras]

Nizar, are you really going to let Darackutny have the last word?

What is the point of continuing this discussing when most of my arguments are responded with external links? Take a look at this page I got linked too for example:
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Grammar/iltifaat.html

In all seriousness, who on earth would read a (+-) 35 pages document to prove a member on an anonymous internet gaming forum wrong knowing that he will end up being responded with such an answer in return:

I didn't answer the original question. Like I mentioned it was answer by a professor. So I wouldn't be able debate with you regarding this, maybe ask him for an explanation.

Just scan through the last ten pages or so and count the number of pages I got linked to that either were totally irrelevant to the arguments or the poster himself didn't understand enough in order to continue the discussion about what is being said in the page provided.

I would have had enjoyed this discussion a lot more if people were arguing logically and with their own words, there are a few who have done so such as the ones who I discussed the violent/non-peaceful discussion with, which I have really enjoyed and learned a lot from, but thats about it.

I am subscribed to this thread so I will be notified when new posts are written here, and most likely will respond back as long as what is being posted are not arguments similar to those of crazy monkey.

 

[Instigator]

What is the point of continuing this discussing when most of my arguments are responded with external links? Take a look at this page I got linked too for example:
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Grammar/iltifaat.html

In all seriousness, who on earth would read a (+-) 35 pages document to prove a member on an anonymous internet gaming forum wrong knowing that he will end up being responded with such an answer in return:

I admit it is unfortunate, maybe it is a point that can not be argued convincingly without references.

But you did get ahead with the creationism angle where either Islam is right or science is. I remember seeing one admission of sorts at least!

Just scan through the last ten pages or so and count the number of pages I got linked to that either were totally irrelevant to the arguments or the poster himself didn't understand enough in order to continue the discussion about what is being said in the page provided.

I would have had enjoyed this discussion a lot more if people were arguing logically and with their own words, there are a few who have done so such as the ones who I discussed the violent/non-peaceful discussion with, which I have really enjoyed and learned a lot from, but thats about it.

I am subscribed to this thread so I will be notified when new posts are written here, and most likely will respond back as long as what is being posted are not arguments similar to those of crazy monkey.

Yeah, I've complained about that myself.

I'd still lobby for people like Hadji and Fight for Freedom to be allowed back to GAF. That would change things, especially in this thread.

 

[Anaxagoras]

I admit it is unfortunate, maybe it is a point that can not be argued convincingly without references.

I don't mind references, I just do not get encouraged read a whole document knowing for a fact that the poster himself hasn't read it nor is able to argue in return.

I guess I will have to start talking about freedom of speech and equality between both the sexes in Islam and link them to online e-books as references.

 

[crazy monkey]

I don't mind references, I just do not get encouraged read a whole document knowing for a fact that the poster himself hasn't read it nor is able to argue in return.

I guess I will have to start talking about freedom of speech and equality between both the sexes in Islam and link them to online e-books as references.

go ahead and do so.

 

[crazy monkey]

I am subscribed to this thread so I will be notified when new posts are written here, and most likely will respond back as long as what is being posted are not arguments similar to those of crazy monkey.

First if you want to argue deeply go to Islamic website or something. you want find maulana here.

Second this are the question you asked

Islam is violent or no? you got the answer
Adam children you got the answer
Earth and universe creation, you will probably never get the answer. If this is the reason you don't believe in islam good going.
Grammar go to Islamic website and you will get answer
God can create stone that is so heavy even he cant life? This is one of the most dumb question but you got the answer
Racism in Islam. read prophets sermon for answer. And do you know story of bilal.
For woman same read last sermon for answer very simple words. How does it say to treat woman?



And you keep saying everyone else is dumb expect you.

First if god and religion was so simple to understand it would not be god.

When God told Abraham to sacrifice his only son what did he do? you will say that is crazy ness but look at the end result.
Some of the things in religion will never be understood by just plain looking at it. That is why you believe in religion . It is not science. If you don't like it don't believe it simple as that.

Is any body forcing you to join Islam or something?

 

[crazy monkey]

What is the point of continuing this discussing when most of my arguments are responded with external links? Take a look at this page I got linked too for example:
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Grammar/iltifaat.html

In all seriousness, who on earth would read a (+-) 35 pages document to prove a member on an anonymous internet gaming forum wrong knowing that he will end up being responded with such an answer in return:

If you don't want to read don't read.

 

[Anaxagoras]

First if you want to argue deeply go to Islamic website or something. you want find maulana here.

you have a point there, but the reason i got involved in this discussion was because i disliked how some muslims here were sugar coating Islam, and I got dragged into this.

Second this are the question you asked

Islam is violent or no? you got the answer

first you have to understand that my point is that Islam is not a nonviolent religion, I got several responses but non so far has managed to prove in anyway that islam is nonviolent.

Adam children you got the answer

haha ^^
I asked you that question to point out that they got children through Incest

Earth and universe creation, you will probably never get the answer. If this is the reason you don't believe in islam good going.

That was a very strong point I made and you have to admit that, I am proud of it.
btw, this alone is enough to crack the trust system in the quran ^^

Grammar go to Islamic website and you will get answer

I wasn't using this as proof anywhere in this discussion that Islam is false, I have told a member that there is a grammatical error in the quran if i recall correctly, another member asked me to provide him with it and I did, from there that error seemed to have become the main argument in this discussion.

God can create stone that is so heavy even he cant life? This is one of the most dumb question but you got the answer

I got a response, and I have responded back to him, he admitted that he didn't know enough to answer my argument, whether you think it is stupid or not, its your own opinion, god claims that he is all capable and I was testing whether he really is or not.

Racism in Islam. read prophets sermon for answer. And do you know story of bilal.

Where the fuck did you get this?

For woman same read last sermon for answer very simple words. How does it say to treat woman?

I don't remember discussing this either.

And you keep saying everyone else is dumb expect you.

Where did I say this?

First if god and religion was so simple to understand it would not be god.

wtf?

When God told Abraham to sacrifice his only son what did he do? you will say that is crazy ness but look at the end result.
Some of the things in religion will never be understood by just plain looking at it

.
OK? ow does this prove anything?

That is why you believe in religion . It is not science. If you don't like it don't believe it simple as that.

Yeah, until the religion its self is based on a book that claims to speak the whole truth, nothing but the truth, unedited, saved in the perfect form, then you really have a problem with science.

Is any body forcing you to join Islam or something?

What has this got to do with anything being said in this thread?

 

[Anaxagoras]

You know what, I will be very generous with you guys in here, I will drop the argument that the quran contains a grammatical error, I will also drop the argument that Islam is a non-peaceful religion, and I will admit being defeated in those two arguments although I really wasn't.

Now what remains here for you to disprove is:

The contradiction between quranic creationism and science.
The fact that faith is an unreliable tool to rely on in order to reach the true religion.

Good luck

 

[Instigator]

Nizar, I think with some of the later points (racism and women), crazy monkey is confusing you with Atrus.

 

[Aadil]

I don't really want to get involved in this argument or anything, i'd just like to share somthing ive just watched on youtube and I thought some of you might want to check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsmrOvWIhKA.

 

[Anaxagoras]

Nizar, I think with some of the later points (racism and women), crazy monkey is confusing you with Atrus.

Define is.

Just kidding, I kind of felt that too, it is funny how he considers a simple response of any former as an an ultimate answer to what ever the question being asked is.

I don't really want to get involved in this argument or anything, i'd just like to share somthing ive just watched on youtube and I thought some of you might want to check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsmrOvWIhKA.

This video needs to get subbed, this shieks accent is very hard to follow and understand.

Funny how he claims that reason and logic are that paths to truth in religion when both reason and logic go against the religious teachings.

I would like to return the favor by linking you to this video which discusses Why do we have a need for fast, fatty and sugary foods when such foods are bad for our bodies? Why do we get sick and suffer from organ failures when we age? Why are our bodies vulnerable to disease? Why can’t the brain and the heart regrow their selves just like the liver does for example? Why can’t we live longer? Why isn’t the body better? Why do females live longer than males?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcnC...-designed-human-body/&feature=player_embedded

enjoy

 

[Anaxagoras]

So this is going to be my first Ramadan. How do the rules work again? I tend to wake up at 6 am to pray. Can I eat breakfast at 6 am (the sun is usually not up by then) and then go pray?

Does the sun have to be completely risen for the fast to take place or is it just early morning in general?

You are allowed to eat until the Fajer prayer starts, that is when al fajirs athan starts calling, you can check your local timing for the fajer athan, google is your friend.

 

[crazy monkey]

first you have to understand that my point is that Islam is not a nonviolent religion, I got several responses but non so far has managed to prove in anyway that islam is nonviolent.

Islam has violent parts thus its non-violent thats your point yes what more?

haha ^^

I asked you that question to point out that they got children through Incest

so? How did according to science this happen? Monkey evolved every where on earth to gather? I never researched in this actually since you know this much explain me it will be interesting read.

That was a very strong point I made and you have to admit that, I am proud of it.
btw, this alone is enough to crack the trust system in the quran ^^.

This is where I laugh at you too so don't worry. Its not as simple as that. ASk god what is his definition of universe. OR how long his day is first. Big bang will not explain everything. and when we look at universe you see science and big bang I see gods creation. Difference between me and you.

I got a response, and I have responded back to him, he admitted that he didn't know enough to answer my argument, whether you think it is stupid or not, its your own opinion, god claims that he is all capable and I was testing whether he really is or not.

Only god can answer weather he can do it or no. I suppose ask god than?

Where the fuck did you get this?


I don't remember discussing this either.

Where did I say this?


wtf?

all this came with you.

OK? How does this prove anything?

It is one of the best example of logical thinking vs religion

Yeah, until the religion its self is based on a book that claims to speak the whole truth, nothing but the truth, unedited, saved in the perfect form, then you really have a problem with science.

It does and those who believe it will always believe so.

 

[Aadil]

So this is going to be my first Ramadan. How do the rules work again? I tend to wake up at 6 am to pray. Can I eat breakfast at 6 am (the sun is usually not up by then) and then go pray?

Does the sun have to be completely risen for the fast to take place or is it just early morning in general?

Basically you can eat up until dawn and then the fast begins. At sunset you can eat again.

 

[Instigator]

Hey Nizar, I was doing some googling and I came across one of the more reasonable Islamic ressource site/forum I've seen yet on the Net.

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php

It is still a religious forum and is populated by the faithful, but there seems to be room for criticism and skepticism, enough anyway for topics like this to be posted and debated:

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13210.0

You could probably have more luck engaging people over there.

 

[GSG Flash]

So this is going to be my first Ramadan. How do the rules work again? I tend to wake up at 6 am to pray. Can I eat breakfast at 6 am (the sun is usually not up by then) and then go pray?

Does the sun have to be completely risen for the fast to take place or is it just early morning in general?

Like Aadil said, you have until dawn to eat, so I would start eating an hour and a half before that so that you have time to eat the amount of food you want to eat and pray fajr namaaz.

 

[Aadil]

You can always use a ramadan calender too to keep track, try this site: http://www.dnzh.com/webservices/RamadanCalendar.aspx

 

[Anaxagoras]

Islam has violent parts thus its non-violent thats your point yes what more?

My point is that Islam is a violent religion because it preaches on violence, thats it.

so? How did according to science this happen? Monkey evolved every where on earth to gather? I never researched in this actually since you know this much explain me it will be interesting read.

I didn't involve science in this, I just pointed out the incest part of the story, thats it.

This is where I laugh at you too so don't worry. Its not as simple as that. ASk god what is his definition of universe.

The earth, the moon, pluto but not mars, dark matter but not dark energy, black holes although he was very generous when he included it in the definition, a couple of the galaxies out there, not all of them though, the list goes on to include even numbered universes.

OR how long his day is first.

mmm, I would say 61.36291 hours.

Are you serious? God is talking to us humans, why the fuck on earth would he use different terms or solar time systems other than the ones that we are familiar with? thats just pure stupidity right there.

Big bang will not explain everything. and when we look at universe you see science and big bang I see gods creation. Difference between me and you.

Yeah, and evolution doesn't explain everything, that's why I believe in Harry potter.

Only god can answer weather he can do it or no. I suppose ask god than?

I haven't got an answer from him so far, I assumed that you guys know a lot about so I guessed you could help me answer that question, it is unfortunate that you can't answer a simple question about something you are ready to die for.

all this came with you.

ok?

It is one of the best example of logical thinking vs religion

aha?

It does and those who believe it will always believe so.

first you say its a matter of belief and then you say that its scientifically true, stick to one of them so we can have a proper discussion, is everything in the quran scientifically true or not?

 

[vareon]

So this is going to be my first Ramadan. How do the rules work again? I tend to wake up at 6 am to pray. Can I eat breakfast at 6 am (the sun is usually not up by then) and then go pray?

Does the sun have to be completely risen for the fast to take place or is it just early morning in general?

Congrats! Breaking a fast after a long, hard day of working and fasting is a great experience you will look forward to.

Fajr prayer usually starts at 5 for me, so I eat around 4.

 

[Zapages]

Hey Himu... Glad to see you here.

I usually try this site: http://www.islamicfinder.org/locate.php?ziporcity=07866&dist=10&start=0&state=&home=1

You can simply put in your zip code and it gives you Dawn, Fajr, and all the prayer times... Its good IMHO.

My advice for meals.

Is usually have some fruits, vegetables, 4 to 5 cups of water, something that will keep you full for the whole day (ie. spaghetti)...

As for breaking your fast, juice, start with something that won't upset your stomach fast, so a date(prune), some fruit and small snack.... Then do Magrib prayer and then have your dinner. Then move on to Isha prayer, etc...

Hope for the best as we are entering Summer/Fall Ramadan.

 

[Linkhero1]

Breaking a fast is the best part of fasting. Oh yeaaaaaah.

 

[crazy monkey]

My point is that Islam is a violent religion because it preaches on violence, thats it.

first you have to understand that my point is that Islam is not a nonviolent religion, I got several responses but non so far has managed to prove in anyway that islam is nonviolent.

SO?

When someone said Islam is peaceful religion its mostly compared to other religion. You can never say it does not have violence they are lying. By the way this does not mean that anyone can commit violence and blames it on religion.

I didn't involve science in this, I just pointed out the incest part of the story, thats it. .

what is funny in it?

The earth, the moon, pluto but not mars, dark matter but not dark energy, black holes although he was very generous when he included it in the definition, a couple of the galaxies out there, not all of them though, the list goes on to include even numbered universes.

I was not sure dark matter but knew about black holes for sure. YOu can start teaching those in university.

mmm, I would say 61.36291 hours..

for which planet for which galaxy for which universe ? you have to explain man don't leave it hangin

Are you serious? God is talking to us humans, why the fuck on earth would he use different terms or solar time systems other than the ones that we are familiar with? thats just pure stupidity right there..

that I think is your pure stupidity. In basic words Universe is not as simple in religion as it is in science

Yeah, and evolution doesn't explain everything, that's why I believe in Harry potter.

ya go harry potter.

I haven't got an answer from him so far, I assumed that you guys know a lot about so I guessed you could help me answer that question, it is unfortunate that you can't answer a simple question about something you are ready to die for.

That is the difference between believer and non believer. That is why I gave you example of Abraham. Now you got why I gave you that example.

ok?


aha?

ahahahahha .......

first you say its a matter of belief and then you say that its scientifically true, stick to one of them so we can have a proper discussion, is everything in the quran scientifically true or not?

science can not explain quran that's all I know.

 

[Anaxagoras]

SO?

When someone said Islam is peaceful religion its mostly compared to other religion. You can never say it does not have violence they are lying. By the way this does not mean that anyone can commit violence and blames it on religion.

omg..

Since most the members in this thread that are debating for Islam do not know how to argue logically, I was forced to write this post to instruct you on how to prove my arguments false:

I have proven that Islam is a violent religion.

In order to prove me wrong you will have to prove that Islam doesn't preach on violence.

Justifying the violence in the Quran doesn't make Islam nonviolent.

Pointing out that other religions are violent too doesn't make Islam a nonviolent religion.

Claiming that an antiviolent religion is a stupid one doesn't make Islam a nonviolent religion.

Pointing out that the Quran discuss violence because its a guide to life and that Islam is a life style does not make Islam a nonviolent religion.

Claiming that violence being discussed in the Quran is a good/bad thing does not make Islam a nonviolent religion.

Claiming that the argument that Islam is a violent religion has no value at all does not make Islam a nonviolent religion.

Pointing out peaceful verses out of the Quran doesn't make Islam a nonviolent one.

Pointing out that Islam has the same God as the other Abrahamic religions doesn't make Islam a non violent religion.

Claiming that Islam is the true religion or the religion of God and therefore can not be considered violent does not make Islam nonviolent.

Claiming that Jesus and Hitler are violent too doesn't make Islam a nonviolent reeligion.

I have proven that according to the Quran the Earth is older than the stars and proven that according to science the stars are older than the Earth.

In order to prove me wrong on this one you have to either prove that I have misinterpreted the Quranic verse or prove that according to science Earth is older than the stars.

Pointing out a number of similarities between Quranic creationism and modern day scientific discoveries does not disprove my argument.

Providing me with links to websites that claim that Earth and the rest of the universe have the same age without any further reasoning, scientific research, evidence or reliable sources doesn't disprove my argument.

Pointing out that science changes and what is scientifically true today might not necessarily be true in the future does not prove my argument to be false.

Discussing Dark matter and how religion and cosmology are similar does not disprove my argument.

Discussing the credibility of wikipedia does not disprove my argument.

I have proven that faith is an unreliable tool to reach the true religion.

In order to prove me wrong on this argument you will have to prove that faith is a reliable tool to the true religion.

Claiming that God has the power and will to choose whom he wants to the true religion does not disprove my argument.

I have proven that a grammatical error exists in the Quran.

In order to prove me wrong on this argument you will have to prove that it is not a grammatical error.

Claiming that Arabic originates from the Quran and thus Arabic grammar is false and the Quran is correct does not disprove my argument.

Pointing out that such matters can not be discussed on forums but have to be discussed with Arabic grammar experts doesn't disprove my argument.

Pointing out that youtube is not a reliable source will not disprove my argument, for the video I linked to is not the source, the Quran is, the video just explains why it is a grammatical error in English.

Other don'ts in this discussion:
Call me single dimensioned.
Claim that I live in a closed world of my own.
Point out that I was brought up in Saudi Arabia.
Point out that I don't know whether God exists or not.
Claiming that my intention is to disrespect Islam and Muslims.
Claiming that I am not listening to your arguments.
And finally pointing out that Ramadan starts in 9 days.
For non of the mentioned above disproves my arguments in anyway.

Now you either start arguing logically or I will have to start ignoring the unserious and irrelevant responses, for I do not have all the time in the world to educate people on the internet on how to reason properly.

underlined is for you.

what is funny in it?

I find the incest in that story quite funny

I was not sure dark matter but knew about black holes for sure. YOu can start teaching those in university.

good for you.

for which planet for which galaxy for which universe ? you have to explain man don't leave it hangin

That was a hard one, mmm, let me see, I will take a wild guess, can it be the planet that he created us in, sent all his prophets too, and wrote his books and stories about?

that I think is your pure stupidity. In basic words Universe is not as simple in religion as it is in science

of course, what was I thinking, in Islam when god speaks of the universe he is actually referring to my bedroom's balcony, not the scientific understanding of what the universe id.

ya go harry potter.

ftw

That is the difference between believer and non believer. That is why I gave you example of Abraham. Now you got why I gave you that example.


ahahahahha .......

ok?

science can not explain quran that's all I know.

Is what is written in the quran scientifically true?

 

[perfectchaos007]

What day in America does Ramadan start? Just wondering so I won't schedule sports with my muslim friends in this heat. I don't want them to dehydrate.

 

[samven582]

What day in America does Ramadan start? Just wondering so I won't schedule sports with my muslim friends in this heat. I don't want them to dehydrate.

Saturday

 

[perfectchaos007]

Saturday

and it goes till...

 

[Zapages]

and it goes till...

29 to 30 days depending on the Lunar cycle. So approximately till 19 or 20th of September...

 

[crazy monkey]

omg..



underlined is for you.

keep your underline with you. I don't think you understand meaning of comparison.

comparatively
- 2 dictionary results
com⋅par⋅a⋅tive
  /kəmˈpærətɪv/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kuhm-par-uh-tiv] Show IPA
Use comparatively in a Sentence
–adjective
1. of or pertaining to comparison.
2. proceeding by, founded on, or using comparison as a method of study: comparative anatomy.
3. estimated by comparison; not positive or absolute; relative: a comparative newcomer in politics; to live in comparative luxury.
4. Grammar. being, noting, or pertaining to the intermediate degree of the comparison of adjectives, as better and more beautiful, the comparative forms of good and beautiful, and of adverbs, as nearer and more carefully, the comparative forms of near and carefully. Compare positive (def. 20), superlative (def. 2).
–noun Grammar.
5. the comparative degree.
6. a form in the comparative.
Origin:
1400–50; late ME < L compar&#257;t&#299;vus, equiv. to compar&#257;t(us) (ptp. of compar&#257;re to compare; see -ate 1 ) + -&#299;vus -ive

Related forms:
com&#8901;par&#8901;a&#8901;tive&#8901;ly, adverb
com&#8901;par&#8901;a&#8901;tive&#8901;ness, noun
Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2009.
Cite This Source
|
Link To comparatively
Explore the Visual Thesaurus »
Related Words for : comparatively
relatively
View more related words »

com·par·a·tive (k&#601;m-p&#257;r'&#601;-t&#301;v)
adj.

1.
1. Relating to, based on, or involving comparison.
2. Of or relating to the scientific or historical comparison of different phenomena, institutions, or objects, such as languages, legal systems, or anatomical structures, in an effort to understand their origins or relationships.
2. Estimated by comparison; relative: a comparative newcomer.
3. Grammar Of, relating to, or being the intermediate degree of comparison of adjectives, as better, sweeter, or more wonderful, or adverbs, as more softly.

n. Grammar

1. The comparative degree.
2. An adjective or adverb expressing the comparative degree.

com·par'a·tive·ly adv.

Our Living Language : Speakers of vernacular dialects often use double comparatives and superlatives such as more higher and most fastest. Although such constructions may seem redundant or even illogical, in reality both standard and nonstandard varieties of all languages are replete with such constructions. In English the redundant comparative dates back to the 1500s. Prior to this, in Old and Middle English, suffixes, rather than a preceding more or most, almost always marked the comparative and superlative forms of adjectives and adverbs, regardless of word length. In the Early Modern English period (c. 1500-1800), more and most constructions became more common. The Modern English rule governing the distribution of -er/-est and more/most had not yet arisen, and such forms as eminenter, impudentest, and beautifullest occurred together with constructions like more near, most poor, and most foul. Double markings were commonly used to indicate special emphasis, and they do not appear to have been socially disfavored. In fact, even Shakespeare used double comparatives and superlatives, as in Mark Antony's statement "This was the most unkindest cut of all" from Julius Caesar. Nowadays, although double comparatives and superlatives are not considered standard usage, they are kept alive in vernacular dialects. See Notes at might2, plural, redundancy.

All of the above is for you

I find the incest in that story quite funny

don't worry you are related to him to.

good for you.

and good for you too

Is what is written in the quran scientifically true?

and yes it is for me.

by the way what do you think of non-Abrahamic religions? are those true religion?

 

[Anaxagoras]

keep your underline with you. I don't think you understand meaning of comparison.

comparatively
- 2 dictionary results
com&#8901;par&#8901;a&#8901;tive
&#8194;&#8194;/k&#601;m&#712;pær&#601;t&#618;v/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kuhm-par-uh-tiv] Show IPA
Use comparatively in a Sentence
–adjective
1. of or pertaining to comparison.
2. proceeding by, founded on, or using comparison as a method of study: comparative anatomy.
3. estimated by comparison; not positive or absolute; relative: a comparative newcomer in politics; to live in comparative luxury.
4. Grammar. being, noting, or pertaining to the intermediate degree of the comparison of adjectives, as better and more beautiful, the comparative forms of good and beautiful, and of adverbs, as nearer and more carefully, the comparative forms of near and carefully. Compare positive (def. 20), superlative (def. 2).
–noun Grammar.
5. the comparative degree.
6. a form in the comparative.
Origin:
1400–50; late ME < L compar&#257;t&#299;vus, equiv. to compar&#257;t(us) (ptp. of compar&#257;re to compare; see -ate 1 ) + -&#299;vus -ive

Related forms:
com&#8901;par&#8901;a&#8901;tive&#8901;ly, adverb
com&#8901;par&#8901;a&#8901;tive&#8901;ness, noun
Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2009.
Cite This Source
|
Link To comparatively
Explore the Visual Thesaurus »
Related Words for : comparatively
relatively
View more related words »

com·par·a·tive (k&#601;m-p&#257;r'&#601;-t&#301;v)
adj.

1.
1. Relating to, based on, or involving comparison.
2. Of or relating to the scientific or historical comparison of different phenomena, institutions, or objects, such as languages, legal systems, or anatomical structures, in an effort to understand their origins or relationships.
2. Estimated by comparison; relative: a comparative newcomer.
3. Grammar Of, relating to, or being the intermediate degree of comparison of adjectives, as better, sweeter, or more wonderful, or adverbs, as more softly.

n. Grammar

1. The comparative degree.
2. An adjective or adverb expressing the comparative degree.

com·par'a·tive·ly adv.

Our Living Language : Speakers of vernacular dialects often use double comparatives and superlatives such as more higher and most fastest. Although such constructions may seem redundant or even illogical, in reality both standard and nonstandard varieties of all languages are replete with such constructions. In English the redundant comparative dates back to the 1500s. Prior to this, in Old and Middle English, suffixes, rather than a preceding more or most, almost always marked the comparative and superlative forms of adjectives and adverbs, regardless of word length. In the Early Modern English period (c. 1500-1800), more and most constructions became more common. The Modern English rule governing the distribution of -er/-est and more/most had not yet arisen, and such forms as eminenter, impudentest, and beautifullest occurred together with constructions like more near, most poor, and most foul. Double markings were commonly used to indicate special emphasis, and they do not appear to have been socially disfavored. In fact, even Shakespeare used double comparatives and superlatives, as in Mark Antony's statement "This was the most unkindest cut of all" from Julius Caesar. Nowadays, although double comparatives and superlatives are not considered standard usage, they are kept alive in vernacular dialects. See Notes at might2, plural, redundancy.

All of the above is for you

I know that violence can be relative, but the point that you fail to understand is that even if other religions are violent too, Islam is till violent, it doesn't change anything, so why bring it up?

don't worry you are related to him to.

and good for you too

so is your prophet.

and yes it is for me.

so you believe that everything in the Quran is scientifically true?

by the way what do you think of non-Abrahamic religions? are those true religion?

my opinion doesn't matter in this discussion, and no, I don't know much about them so I can't answer your question.

 

[Kinitari]

Nizar - I really appreciate what it is you are trying to do. I get it because I was Muslim once too. But I don't think you are ever going to get through to Crazy Monkey - and others like him. Encouraging discussion is great, debate is wonderful, but when one side is basically saying "Well that is just what I believe, tough" - there is no discussion, there is no debate. I just feel bad for you putting so much effort into your arguments, to get them brushed aside with a simple "so?" - I am tired just reading it, I can't imagine how tired you are writing it.

 

[Instigator]

Can you go to bed a dawn and get up at sunset during Ramadan? Does it still count as fasting?

 

[Shorty]

Nizar - I really appreciate what it is you are trying to do. I get it because I was Muslim once too. But I don't think you are ever going to get through to Crazy Monkey - and others like him. Encouraging discussion is great, debate is wonderful, but when one side is basically saying "Well that is just what I believe, tough" - there is no discussion, there is no debate. I just feel bad for you putting so much effort into your arguments, to get them brushed aside with a simple "so?" - I am tired just reading it, I can't imagine how tired you are writing it.

What are you guys trying to do anyway? Talk others out of their beliefs? Prove that Islam is a worse religion than others by proving that it's a violent religion? Religions aren't violent, people are.

 

[Zapages]

Can you go to bed a dawn and get up at sunset during Ramadan? Does it still count as fasting?

Technically yes...

 

[crazy monkey]

I know that violence can be relative, but the point that you fail to understand is that even if other religions are violent too, Islam is till violent, it doesn't change anything, so why bring it up?

comparatively less violent?

so is your prophet.

and I am proud of him

my opinion doesn't matter in this discussion, and no, I don't know much about them so I can't answer your question.

everything you wrote is your own opinion since you have not changes any body else opinion. If what ever you said was considered universal opinion than people would change wouldn't they.

 

[crazy monkey]

Nizar - I really appreciate what it is you are trying to do. I get it because I was Muslim once too. But I don't think you are ever going to get through to Crazy Monkey - and others like him. Encouraging discussion is great, debate is wonderful, but when one side is basically saying "Well that is just what I believe, tough" - there is no discussion, there is no debate. I just feel bad for you putting so much effort into your arguments, to get them brushed aside with a simple "so?" - I am tired just reading it, I can't imagine how tired you are writing it.

"Well that is just what I believe" that is consider belief system. Fundamental of any religion. You can't change it. Any religion you have to believe , trust the unknowns and what ever that comes with it. You can't scientifically or philosophically explain it. That is why I pointed out example of prophet Abraham.

 

[crazy monkey]

What are you guys trying to do anyway? Talk others out of their beliefs?

Most likely. But he is failing miserably if he is trying to do so.

 

[SmokyDave]

Most likely. But he is failing miserably if he is trying to do so.

I doubt that was his aim. He's clearly clued up enough to know blind faith does not waver.