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[crazy monkey]

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[kobashi100]

If muslims are so resentful of these 'occupations' then why not get working on building decent countries in those places and not blow up children at supermarkets so the US can gladly leave?



I knew I shouldn't have clicked on this thread, fuck. I don't think there's a single anti-american claim that I hate more than this, what fucking bullshit.

Do those dictatorships by the way include independent and anti-american ones like syria, and iran? No American embassy in any of those places, but hey blame the infidel for your miserable state.

Even if there were embassies there, I know enough about many of those countries to know the US can't do anything if those regimes or peoples want (and act for) something different. Too many internet-induced headaches to bother here again though..

Obama promised a change in US policy towards the Muslim world, but I do not see it. He just like Bush continues to be supportive of dictators in the muslim world. Drone attacks in pakistan and continuation of occupation. Just because the guys quotes a few Ayahs from the Quran does not mean he is any different from the rulers before him when it comes to policy in the muslim world.

Yes some like Syria and Iran do not have US support but you cannot deny that the US under Obama is happy to trade and support government’s who oppress and torture their own people. Saudi government, Gadaffi in Libya, Mubarak in Egypt and one of the must brutal tyrants anywhere in the world. Islam Karimov in Uzbekistan!!

Obama recently come out and praised Mubarak man. This tyrant has tortured his people for years but Obama says “he’s been a force for stability and good in the region”. You honestly think Mubarak is good for the region?

Edit: you know, even if the US 'support' for those dictatorships were true and what's holding them in power, what's stopping muslims from fighting for their freedom? I mean other then mass murder of innocents, like say the iran protests? What funny here is that muslims like kobashi want anything but a democracy to replace those dictatorships. In that case count me in support of those regimes.

Fear is the major factor. In all the above countries I mentioned people get locked up and tortured etc for speaking out against the rulers. That is the same for Islamic or Pro-Secular groups by the way.

Anyway Ramadan kareem to all brothers and sisters!!

 

[Dra-Q]

Ramadan mubarak, GAF. Nice to see so many brothers and sister here.

 

[Chrono]

I don't think he even knows bush started war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Obama supports the Afghanistan war (and so should any true 'moderate' muslims).

 

[Prine]

If not next summer then the summer after it will be during summer in Alaska, keep in mind that the moon year is a bit shorter than the sun year.

I guess God forgot about Alaska when he set the rules of fasting

You should know this, you go by the timings of the nearest sun/moon cycle.

 

[Nachkebia]

Ramadan qareem!

 

[Anaxagoras]

You should know this, you go by the timings of the nearest sun/moon cycle.

yeah, so if I live in Alaska during a summer ramadan, I should follow the closes possible fasting time system, like 3:00 am to 2:30 am ^^ God is awesome!

 

[Prine]

yeah, so if I live in Alaska during a summer ramadan, I should follow the closes possible fasting time system, like 3:00 am to 2:30 am ^^ God is awesome!

I dont think that would be considered, they would look further. There are lots of special cases for not fasting, its all covered.

 

[crazy monkey]

yeah, so if I live in Alaska during a summer ramadan, I should follow the closes possible fasting time system, like 3:00 am to 2:30 am

you can google that question and get answer. I looked at it before and I think this were the option. They can go with time of their native country, They can go with makka time for fasting or they can go with nearest country

^^ God is awesome!

yes he is.

 

[Linkhero1]

Ramadan Mubarak everyone.

 

[perfectchaos007]

you can google that question and get answer. I looked at it before and I think this were the option. They can go with time of their native country, They can go with makka time for fasting or they can go with nearest country



yes he is.

Did the rules of Ramadan with the sunset-sunrise rules start with Allah, Muhammad, or were they tweaked by mortal humans. Did Allah forget about the arctic regions?

 

[crazy monkey]

Did the rules of Ramadan with the sunset-sunrise rules start with Allah, Muhammad, or were they tweaked by mortal humans. Did Allah forget about the arctic regions?

there is amazing amount of rules and regulation, I encourage you to read it.

 

[Azih]

Ramadan Mubarak everyone.

 

[crazy monkey]

Ramadan Mubarak everyone.

mubarak. 2 more hours to go for iftar.

 

[The Other One]

Did the rules of Ramadan with the sunset-sunrise rules start with Allah, Muhammad, or were they tweaked by mortal humans. Did Allah forget about the arctic regions?

All the rules and regulations in the religion are set by Allah. This could be through the Quran or the prophet Mohammed [peace be upon him] based on his narrations. Allah didn't forget about the arctic region as that has its own ruling which is all covered.

From a Muslim scholar:

In answer to your question, those who live close to the Arctic Circle, where they have continual night or continual day for several months, should look to the closest city to them where night and day are distinct in each twenty-four hour period, then they should do the five daily prayers based on the timing in that city.

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/13916/arctic fasting

Likewise the same for fasting.

 

[The Other One]

p.s Ramadaan Kareem to all the NeoGAF Muslims.

 

[Az]

ramadan mubarak my fellow muslims, my favorite month of the year

 

[Ela Hadrun]

Ramadan Mubarak, everyone!

 

[crazy monkey]

....

 

[crazy monkey]

sorry for bringing this here. WE were hijacking mali thread. Since me and Nizar will continue I thought this would be better place.

 

[Anaxagoras]

ok, here we go again:

For God's sake, focus on the point being discussed here, we are not talking about respect for the different believes, we are talking about the fact that different religions contradict each other and thus logically can not be all true at the same time!

Since you don't believe in god you should not even use that isn't it..

OMG, for god's sake, Jesus Christ, Ya Allah, these are just expressions, they don't mean anything, but if you want to play this way then you are not allowed to mention anything that you do not believe in, that include ghosts, unicorns, fairy tales, fictional characters, harry potter, big bang, evolution, flying spaghetti monster etc...

secondly regarding contradiction, since we are talking about Christianity and Islam there are contradiction in some minor way

The more I read what you write the more I doubt that you have not read or understood the quran, the quran, unlike the bible for example, is God's own and exact words, it claims to be perfect, error free and speaks the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

This means that you have to take it as a whole, in other words no cherry picking, you can not dismiss the contradiction about Jesus.

but ultimately both religion have same GOD or you can say " truth" worshiping can be different, name can be different, ( I say Allah some one say GOD)

Believing in the same God is different from following the same religion.
I can make my own religion that worships Allah but contradicts a lot of the teachings of the Abrahamic religions, this in no way makes my religion true!

You also seem to have difficulties understanding what contradiction is, when it comes to contradictions similarities play no role at all.

Take this example:

Religion A states:
I am the true religion of God, my holy book is perfect, error free and speaks nothing but the truth, God created the earth and the heavens for you humans to thank and worship God almighty.

God created the heaven in earth with his bare hands while being blind folded, he created everything around you in 7 days, God also likes ketchup, power ninjas, cartoon network and Asians.

Religion B states:

I am the true religion of God, my holy book is perfect, error free and speaks nothing but the truth, God created the earth and the heavens for you humans to thank and worship God almighty.

God created the heaven in earth with his bare hands while being blind folded, he created everything around you in 3 days, God also hates ketchup but likes power ninjas, cartoon network and Asians.

Religion A and B contradict each other simply because they preach on contradictory statements to one another.

Get it?

* Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Scripture stand for the right, they recite the Verses of God during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin Al-Ma'rûf and forbid Al-Munkar ; and they hasten in (all) good works; and they are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for God knows well those who are Al-Muttaqûn .(3:113-115)

* And there are, certainly, among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), those who believe in God and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before God. They do not sell the Verses of God for a little price, for them is a reward with their Lord. Surely, God is Swift in account. '(3:199)'

* Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve . [Qur'an 2:62]

So, If I understood you correctly, according to what you are pointing out, I don not have to be a Muslim in order to go to heaven!

This verse means only that God according to Islam accepts the good deeds of the followers of the other Abrahamic religions, it doesn't in any way prove that Christianity and Islam do not contradict each other.

Even if the Abrahamic religions accepted each others followers as true worshipers of God, which they don't. that in no way means that they do not contradict.

And while you are still at the habit of googling and pasting texts into discussions, why don't you google some verses from the Quran that state that Islam is the only religion to be practiced today?

How many times do I have to tell you the definition of belief? If some one holds some thing to be true its his/her own thinking. As long as it is not forcing you or not causing hard to you what is your problem? Religion is not true for you but can be true for me or any other person. Some differences aside, religious people believe in god and that is common. No law of contradiction applies. Keep you law of contradiction with you.

No, simply because someone believes that something is true it doesn't make it true.

Example:
No matter how many people believe that earth is flat, it will not change the fact that earth is not flat, see? opinions, believes and conspiracy theories are neither facts not have any impact on truth.

This is logic, if you don't want it then stay the irrational being that you are, but don't come complaining that someone is making fun of you.

We are not talking about earth surface here. stay on topic we are talking about believing in God and religion.

Seriously, What is wrong with you?

Do you not know how to debate? you said that something you believe in is true for you but not for others, I have proven you wrong by pointing out that believes and opinions have no impact on truth, and I used the earth's surface to explain that better to you.

secondly don't poke science in every talk since I and probably millions of people who believe in god are also student of science. My mother used to work as scientist in ISRO ( Indian space research organization) I learned about big bang and Hubble telescope as kid.
Just because some one is religious does not mean he will take all the facts and throw them out of the window.

Yeah, and I know a couple of people who believe in harry potter, santa claus, and believe that earth is only 6000 years old, they study science too!

Does this means that science and their believes do not contradict? NO.

I already discussed you about science and religion. First I don't believe that religious book should be taken as science book in class.

That is your opinion.

When a book claims to be error free, perfect, speaks the whole truth and nothing but the truth, unedited and saved in the perfect form. It should be open for testing, and the quran itself encourages that.

They are two separate things.

History and physics are two different things too, does this means that they can not contradict? No.

There were ten things that were shown to you that you can see in quran actually talks about science.

Similarities play no role what so ever when it comes to contradiction, Two statements that contradict each other contradict each other no matter how the rest of them are similar to each other.

Example:
Statement A: David Ferguson is a math student at Harvard university who enjoys football.
Statement B: David Ferguson is not a math student at Harvard university but he enjoys football.

Statement A and B contradict each other. Got it?

Only thing you will argue again is the earth was created before universe and thus religion is false. You also have to think about it that god and angles were also before the universe according to religion.

No, I have several cards to play against Islam, that was only one of them, and no, if you understood the verse correctly it states that earth is older than the stars and the rest of the universe (the heavens), not older than the universe.

This contradicts with reason and evidence and thus allows us to label Quranic creationism as false.

This is the problem with you. Out of ten things that I or anybody will show you correct you always will want to find that one point to argue about .

Wait, this is not a religious school, you can't make such conclusions without reasoning or evidence.

Where have you provided me with ten True facts that I have rejected to be true?

Biggest thing you think is that why would some believe in god since there is not mathematical or scientific proof of him existing. here I will repeat again the answer that bugs many but it is the spiritual believing system.

I didn't ask any religious person to prove his god's existence in order to believe in him, it is your freedom to believe in what ever you want, but when you claim that God's existence is a fact and that everything in the Quran is true, I will prove you wrong.

I never chicken out or not gone any where. secondly we are talking about believing in god and not about earth is flat or not. Believing in god is spiritual thing not a scientific one.

For fucks sake, I have already answered these questions several times, stop being so damn repetitive, I don't have all the time in the world for you.

First, I was talking about bloggers, some of them chicken out and delete my comments when cornered, not you.

Second, the earth example, was an example I used to prove to you that opinions and believes have no impact on truth, no matter how many people believe that earth is flat will not in anyway make it flat. and I have written that because you claimed that something you believe in is true for you and not for others that don't believe in it.

and regarding one true religion. If three different person want to climb a mountain to reach a treasure, but all of them take different route. All of them will reach there. It is not what route they will take it is the end result that matters. For each of them their route was correct but one thing that they all agreed on before journey that their treasure to be found at the top.

This is the only smart thing you have written this whole month, but it wasn't a very good example, if these paths took their own ways to the same ending then I do not find this a problem according to what is being discussed here, but they contradict? don't you get it?

The Quran and the bible have several contradictions to one another.

Example:
Religion A: follow me and I grant you the treasure at the top of the mountain that God created for you in 7 days.
Religion B: follow me and I grant you the treasure at the top of the mountain that God created for you in 5 days.
Religion C: follow me and I grant you the treasure at the top of the mountain that God created for you in 20 days.

They all claim to result in the same ending, but that doesn't mean that they do not contradict, get it?

also, do you mean that I don not have to be a muslim to go to heaven? can I be a jew and go to heaven according to your understanding of islam?

another thing Nizar I am not saying all religious person are good and nice. There are huge amount of religious people who are intolerant and ignorant in their behavior. But there are people who are religious and are tolerate people. You have to understand fundamental difference between religion and atheism.

All my conclusions are based on the religion its self, in other words I do not judge Islam by the behavior of its followers.

 

[crazy monkey]

So how is ramzhan going for every one?

 

[Darackutny]

Is Crazy Monkey implying that Jews and Christians will be accepted into heaven?

 

[crazy monkey]

Is Crazy Monkey implying that Jews and Christians will be accepted into heaven?

that discussion was done in other thread it was off topic for that thread so I wanted to bring here but than we finished it there.

 

[Darackutny]

Right. Please elaborate. What are the key points that have led you to that conclusion?

 

[Anaxagoras]

Right. Please elaborate. What are the key points that have led you to that conclusion?

A desperate attempt to avoid getting cornered that has anyway resulted in him and his ''logic'' becoming a joke in the other thread.

 

[crazy monkey]

A desperate attempt to avoid getting cornered that has anyway resulted in him and his ''logic'' becoming a joke in the other thread.

woah baby. When did that happened. I thought you are crying in the corner the whole day when you found out that some starts were still younger than earth. It is ok. you can say what ever you want to make you feel better.

 

[Azih]

A desperate attempt to avoid getting cornered that has anyway resulted in him and his ''logic'' becoming a joke in the other thread.

I dunno Nizar, your conclusion that Islam is a violent religion is pretty sketchy logic in and of itself.

 

[crazy monkey]

Did anybody drink water by mistake yet?

 

[Azih]

Did anybody drink water by mistake yet?

I chewed a piece of gum for a bit by mistake.

 

[Anaxagoras]

woah baby. When did that happened. I thought you are crying in the corner the whole day when you found out that some starts were still younger than earth. It is ok. you can say what ever you want to make you feel better.

I know for a fact that not all stars were created at the same time according to science, but we are talking about creationism in the quran.

According to the quran, God furnished earth with mountains and put in it its foods on the fourth day, at that time the rest of the universe (the heavens) was smoke (vapor), he then ordained the heaven into what it is today and created the stars in its lowest heaven.

This contradicts with science.

1. you either believe earth is older than the stars and the rest of the universe = you are irrational.

2. you believe that earth is not older than the stars and the rest of the universe = you do not believe in Quranic creationism.

What you did there is separated the argument that the stars were created at the same time, and made a new one on your own stating that some were created before earth was created and some after earth was created.

Now if some stars were created after earth was created, this is in no way a contradiction between science and the quran, but if there are stars or at least one star older than the earth, then there is a contradiction between science and the quran, and to answer that, yes, there are stars older than earth.


If you don't remember where your logic, or to put it better, the lack of it, was made a joke of, allow me to remind you:

bottom of page 5 and at the begining of page 6.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=372042&page=5

You argued that if you believe that something is true, it becomes true for you, not only this, it becomes a fact as well. I guess I don't have to remind you any further of how stupid that was.

 

[Anaxagoras]

I dunno Nizar, your conclusion that Islam is a violent religion is pretty sketchy logic in and of itself.

Sorry Azih, it is not, A religion that preaches on violence is a violent religion by definition, just as much as a movie that contains violent scenes is a violent movie, there is nothing illogical about stating that, its a straight forward conclusion.

 

[crazy monkey]

I know for a fact that not all stars were created at the same time according to science, but we are talking about creationism in the quran.

According to the quran, God furnished earth with mountains and put in it its foods on the fourth day, at that time the rest of the universe (the heavens) was smoke (vapor), he then ordained the heaven into what it is today and created the stars in its lowest heaven.

This contradicts with science.

1. you either believe earth is older than the stars and the rest of the universe = you are irrational.

2. you believe that earth is not older than the stars and the rest of the universe = you do not believe in Quranic creationism.

What you did there is separated the argument that the stars were created at the same time, and made a new one on your own stating that some were created before earth was created and some after earth was created.

Now if some stars were created after earth was created, this is in no way a contradiction between science and the quran, but if there are stars or at least one star older than the earth, then there is a contradiction between science and the quran, and to answer that, yes, there are stars older than earth.


If you don't remember where your logic, or to put it better, the lack of it, was made a joke of, allow me to remind you:

bottom of page 5 and at the begining of page 6.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=372042&page=5

You argued that if you believe that something is true, it becomes true for you, not only this, it becomes a fact as well. I guess I don't have to remind you any further of how stupid that was.

ah my god you are so desperate. Go back check the thread again. Is it that you can't sleep in night or something.

 

[crazy monkey]

I dunno Nizar, your conclusion that Islam is a violent religion is pretty sketchy logic in and of itself.

don't worry about he has his own logic.

If this is supposed to mean that earth is younger than the stars and other mass objects in the universe then it is contradicting what the quran says.

If it is supposed to mean that earth is older than the stars then it is too proving my point.

In both cases he wants to win man.

 

[Anaxagoras]

Stop attacking me and respond to the arguments that are addressed to you.

How did you reach the conclusion that one doesn't necessarily needs to be a Muslim to go to heaven?

How does quranic creationism not contradict with science when it claims that earth is older than the stars and the rest of the universe?

Spoiler

Sneak peak: next I will be posting why Islam is unhealthy for the economy

 

[crazy monkey]

Spoiler

Sneak peak: next I will be posting why Islam is unhealthy for the economy

haha ok.

 

[Anaxagoras]

How did you reach the conclusion that one doesn't necessarily needs to be a Muslim to go to heaven?

How does quranic creationism not contradict with science when it claims that earth is older than the stars and the rest of the universe?

 

[crazy monkey]

How did you reach the conclusion that one doesn't necessarily needs to be a Muslim to go to heaven?
How does quranic creationism not contradict with science when it claims that earth is older than the stars and the rest of the universe?

I think I have seen this discussion in the other thread, go there and read. If you don't want to than don't.

 

[Az]

Someone please explain to me what is going on here. I like a good debate but its getting quite annoying. And I personally won't get into it.
Its ramadan and I'd like if some of you can post some good links where I can read up on islam a bit more. Also share your stories since I know my family is much closer to each other during ramadan.

 

[crazy monkey]

Someone please explain to me what is going on here. I like a good debate but its getting quite annoying. And I personally won't get into it.
Its ramadan and I'd like if some of you can post some good links where I can read up on islam a bit more. Also share your stories since I know my family is much closer to each other during ramadan.

I have one story. I wanted to fast when I was really young but my mom won't let me. Since I was doing sheri and iftar with everyone, my mom said you are doing sheri and iftar with us so you are fasting :lol even though I was eating all day, I told every one I am fasting.

 

[Gomu Gomu]

Check this out: http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/08/ramadan_2009.html .

I remember when I was young and wanted to fast like everyone. My mother used to tell me since I'm small, it's ok to eat lunch (2 pm) then start fasting until iftar :lol . Good times.

 

[Anaxagoras]

Check this out: http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/08/ramadan_2009.html .

I remember when I was young and wanted to fast like everyone. My mother used to tell me since I'm small, it's ok to eat lunch (2 pm) then start fasting until iftar :lol . Good times.

These photos have brought back a lot of the good memories that I have when I was a Muslim, they were some really good times, thanks for sharing.

 

[Anaxagoras]

Someone please explain to me what is going on here. I like a good debate but its getting quite annoying. And I personally won't get into it.
Its ramadan and I'd like if some of you can post some good links where I can read up on islam a bit more. Also share your stories since I know my family is much closer to each other during ramadan.

Its a very long discussion that has become quite pointless due to all the repetition and the personal attacks.

But I have some good advice for you, I hope you don't mind hearing it, do not mix the good/bad argument with the true/false argument when you are discussing religion, something being good doesn't necessarily mean that it is true, these are tow separate things. One more thing, in Islam being an educated muslim that has chosen his belief in God due to research and knowledge is a much more appreciated follower than a blind one who simply blindly follow in his parents footsteps, and the fact that he is a Muslim is nothing more than the chance that he was born into a muslim family.

So always stay open minded, hear what others have to say, if in doubt always question and do not accept empty answers such as because that is god's will.

Good luck with ramadan and your family.

 

[Azih]

Sorry Azih, it is not, A religion that preaches on violence is a violent religion by definition, just as much as a movie that contains violent scenes is a violent movie, there is nothing illogical about stating that, its a straight forward conclusion.

3030
And I already pointed out a few pages back that by this standard any philosophy that allows or advocates self-defense is a 'violent' philosophy. This is a moronic stance to take.

 

[Anaxagoras]

Post 3030
And I already pointed out a few pages back that by this standard any philosophy that allows or advocates self-defense is a 'violent' philosophy. This is a moronic stance to take.

Sorry Azih, A holy book that preaches on violence is violent by definition just as much as a video game that contains violence is a violent video game.

This doesn't necessarily mean that its a bad thing, to some people it is a good thing to others its a bad thing. I hope you understand what I mean.

cheers

 

[Azih]

Sorry Azih, A holy book that preaches on violence is violent by definition just as much as a video game that contains violence is a violent video game.

This doesn't necessarily mean that its a bad thing, to some people it is a good thing to others its a bad thing. I hope you understand what I mean.

cheers

It seems like you're making a purely semantic argument at this point. The only philosophy that isn't violent by your stance are the ones held by the Amish, certain Buddhists, and other complete and total pacifists. Sure by that kind of an extreme standard your argument that Islam is 'violent' is correct, but it is also completely meaningless.

Edit: So if you want to have the semantic victory, by all means go ahead. You aren't making any sort of an effective argument however.

 

[A.R.K]

Sorry Azih, A holy book that preaches on violence is violent by definition just as much as a video game that contains violence is a violent video game.

This doesn't necessarily mean that its a bad thing, to some people it is a good thing to others its a bad thing. I hope you understand what I mean.

cheers

Show me your evidence that 'ISLAM' itself preaches on violence. Please don't spread false allegations like most of the western media.

Anyways a belated Ramadan mubarak to all brothers and sisters. w'salaam

 

[Dever]

Sorry Azih, A holy book that preaches on violence is violent by definition just as much as a video game that contains violence is a violent video game.

This doesn't necessarily mean that its a bad thing, to some people it is a good thing to others its a bad thing. I hope you understand what I mean.

cheers

I'm 99% of the time with you, but I would disagree here. I have not read the Koran, but if it's true that it teaches nothing but self-defence, I don't think it's fair to call it a violent religion. It may by definition be indeed violent for preaching even self-defense, but that's not what people commonly think when they think of a violent religion. A violent religion, perhaps not by such a narrow definition but in common language, would be one that preaches to actively wage war on other religions, not one that defends itself against attack. Although a message of self-defence can be twisted(like anything in any holy book). The extremists could justify bombing danish embassies as being self-defence because they saw the cartoons as "attacking" Islam or something.

 

[Anaxagoras]

It seems like you're making a purely semantic argument at this point. The only philosophy that isn't violent by your stance are the ones held by the Amish, certain Buddhists, and other complete and total pacifists. Sure by that kind of an extreme standard your argument that Islam is 'violent' is correct, but it is also completely meaningless.

Edit: So if you want to have the semantic victory, by all means go ahead. You aren't making any sort of an effective argument however.

There is a difference between a violent philosophy, an anti-violence philosophy and a philosophy that doesn't involve its self in violence.

I am fine with it, its your opinion, you are free to express your opinion whether it is bad or not.

I am not using this as a card against islam, being a violent philosophy doesn't in anyway mean that its a false one.

I have just stated this because many people here claim that Islam is not a violent religion, just like the guy that wrote the comment below you on this page, that's it.

 

[Anaxagoras]

Show me your evidence that 'ISLAM' itself preaches on violence. Please don't spread false allegations like most of the western media.

Anyways a belated Ramadan mubarak to all brothers and sisters. w'salaam

your statements here alone indicate that you haven't read the quran properly, if you want i can digg you a lot of verses that preach on violence from the quran, no problem.