phosphor112
Banned
Thanks man, it's fine. It happened long long ago, it just perplexes me at how much hate flows through these people.
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Official Islamic Thread
- Thread starter AmMortal
- Start date
Thanks man, it's fine. It happened long long ago, it just perplexes me at how much hate flows through these people.
People like you are the reason why I view islam as a whole (but not all muslims) as a big threat to a free and secular Europe. The problem is not just islamic terrorism, it's also this kind of indifference against the destruction of important Western values. As far as I'm concerned, any muslim that condones sharia in any form does not belong here (muslims who respect and value our laws and rights are ofcourse welcome to stay). But thanks for supporting the execution of homosexuals, apostates and islam-critics, the hitting of women, and many other barbaric things (that fall under blatant bigotry as far as I'm concerned, I thought homophobia and misogyny were bannable here?).
And you repay it by condoning barbaric Sharia law in a secular country, I'm sure the Germans will be delighted.
i don't understand your problem. maybe this helps. i wrote this in another thread:
"Cutting of the hand for stealing is morally wrong for non-muslims and also not allowed in the democratic law. Yet as a muslim theoretically i am in favor of it because simple to say the qur'an says it and i believe the qur'an is god's word and therefore i say, that god knows better what is good for me than i would ever know for myself. But practically that doesn't mean i should ignore the democratic law in that country i live in and only do what the qur'an says. As a muslim you live out your religion as much as you can in that country you live in without acting against the law. if there are too many restrictions, then you should leave the country."
Listen, if i wouldn't accept the sharia THEORETICALLY then i would be a hypocrite. i live in germany and i live by western values as long as they don't conflict with the qur'an and the sunnah. i am not acting against the law. i would never do that. so because of that i should be banned out of this country? are you out of you mind?
i live my life peacefully here, have many non-muslim friends who i study with. and i want to maintain that. IF the sharia ever get accepted here, so be it. i am not actively trying to achieve that. sorry, that is not my job as a muslim. but still, if a muslim is against the sharia, he didn't study his own religion good enough.
dacuk
Member
Salih, OttomanScribe, a quick question to you:
As the current environment surrounding Islam on the media seems to be targeted to expose it as a belief of violence (thing I do not believe, even as I am mostly agnostic), do you guys think it will be any chance to change the non-Islamic world view about this religion? If so, how?
As the current environment surrounding Islam on the media seems to be targeted to expose it as a belief of violence (thing I do not believe, even as I am mostly agnostic), do you guys think it will be any chance to change the non-Islamic world view about this religion? If so, how?
I respect your opinions, and in my country is difficult to ask this kind of questions as there is no Muslim people that I know
So basically you think homosexuals should be executed, as this is a part of sharia law too.
Stridone, read my post again.
hello daCuk,
i am not the right person to get asked such a question because i am not THAT informed in politics. OttomanScribe or another akhi could give a more informed answer.
maybe the view on islam will change, maybe not. for me it doesn't matter. as muslims we should always try and convey the message of islam peacefully but never appease or justify our belief.
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btw. how often does a muslim say peace in arabic only in one day? someone should count it. we easily beat any pacifist
hello daCuk,
i am not the right person to get asked such a question because i am not THAT informed in politics. OttomanScribe or another akhi could give a more informed answer.
maybe the view on islam will change, maybe not. for me it doesn't matter. as muslims we should always try and convey the message of islam peacefully but never appease or justify our belief.
---
btw. how often does a muslim say peace in arabic only in one day? someone should count it. we easily beat any pacifist
OttomanScribe
Member
I think that the only chance that this has to do so is to deepen the idea of an inherent conflict between two binary poles. Islam in one corner and 'the West' in the other.
RustyNails
Member
One of the best Friday sermons I've ever heard by Hamza Yusuf
He speaks about the film-protests around the world. More people should be aware of this.
He speaks about the film-protests around the world. More people should be aware of this.
What happens if you don't say "peace be upon him" after mentioning Mohammed? Clearly it's not as bad as drawing him, but is it still something that will get you dirty looks if you do it in a mosque for example?
I see so many people writing (pbuh) after mentioning him on that link you posted RustyNails, I just don't get the point if you're not even gonna bother typing it out.
I see so many people writing (pbuh) after mentioning him on that link you posted RustyNails, I just don't get the point if you're not even gonna bother typing it out.
Thanks for this. Really enjoyed it. He is probably my favourite scholar.
great. will watch later.
btw. Zaytuna also uploaded their recent panel discussion regarding that movie:
Between Militarism & Extremism: The Excluded Middle with Hatem Bazian, Zaid Shakir and Hamza Yusuf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo1z_eSHdHE
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
It's not like anyone who doesn't say Salallahu Alayhi Wassalam after Prophet Muhammad is going to be struck by bolts of lightning or anything, hahaha. And no, no Muslim--well, no sane Muslim anyways--will give you any dirty look if you fail to do it
It is more of a term of endearment we have towards the Prophet. It is recommended, but not forced.
OttomanScribe
Member
It is something recommended, but you wouldn't get a dirty look for not doing it.
I personally dislike the shortening of it. In terms of what I write 'SullAllahu alayhi wasalaam' after his name is the best of it, my hands should never be too tired or lazy in that respect.
Terra Firma
Banned
It's not like anyone who doesn't say Salallahu Alayhi Wassalam after Prophet Muhammad is going to be struck by bolts of lightning or anything, hahaha. And no, no Muslim--well, no sane Muslim anyways--will give you any dirty look if you fail to do it
It is more of a term of endearment we have towards the Prophet. It is recommended, but not forced.
It is obligatory (wajib) for Muslims to say it the first time they mention the Prophet PBUH in their conversations and recommended to say it after that point. Muslims would assume the best, though, and presume that someone who is speaking has already said it once.
The Prophet PBUH said, "A miserly person is he who (when) heard my name being mentioned did not recite salawat in my favour." Musnad Ahmad
I don't know if this applies to written texts as well. I just recite it verbally.
OttomanScribe
Member
Indeed iirc Imam Nawawi argues that salawat (though I am not sure if this is in general or in this case) is an obligation on a level greater than the obligation of Salah.
RustyNails
Member
Mine too. By an exceedingly long shot. I was going through a very downward spiral. Somehow, I came across his lectures and I instantly became hooked. Really gifted individual.
Thank you for this. I couldn't catch the livestream, so was waiting for the video to show up.
Thanks for the answers guys
Wait, he himself said that people should add "peace be upon him" after mentioning him? I don't want to sound disrespectful or anything, but doesn't that sound a bit arrogant?
Who is more important in Islam? Allah, or Mohammed? Are they equally important like God and Jesus are in Catholicism? Is this something that different branches of Islam differ on?
Wait, he himself said that people should add "peace be upon him" after mentioning him? I don't want to sound disrespectful or anything, but doesn't that sound a bit arrogant?
Who is more important in Islam? Allah, or Mohammed? Are they equally important like God and Jesus are in Catholicism? Is this something that different branches of Islam differ on?
There shouldn't be any difference on this point. Allah is more important. The Quran isn't even Mohammed's words, they are God's words conveyed to Mohammad through the Angel Gabriel.
Thanks for the answers guys
Wait, he himself said that people should add "peace be upon him" after mentioning him? I don't want to sound disrespectful or anything, but doesn't that sound a bit arrogant?
Who is more important in Islam? Allah, or Mohammed? Are they equally important like God and Jesus are in Catholicism? Is this something that different branches of Islam differ on?
Sura 33:56
source: quran.com
Terra Firma
Banned
The Prophet PBUH came to teach us the religion. Sending blessings upon the Prophet PBUH is part of the religion as it is a show of love for him. Loving someone on their terms is what love is. If a person loves his wife but gives her things she doesn't like, thinking that she likes them, that is not love. If his wife tells him that she likes this or that and he gives these things to her out of love, that is love. Similarly, we don't do things that may seem respectful to us in order to love the Prophet PBUH but we love him as he told us to and we remain within their bounds. We send salutations, yes, but we don't worship the Prophet PBUH, for example. We don't decorate his noble grave. There is even a major difference of opinion in celebrating his birthday annually.
Allah, of course. Allah is God, the Prophet PBUH is just his messenger. We worship Allah alone. A person who worships the Prophet PBUH is completely outside of Islam and there is unanimous agreement of the Muslims on this so you won't find anyone who is a Muslim claim that he or she worships the Prophet PBUH.
The Prophet PBUH is the best human, but he is not more than a human. The Qur'an itself says that the Prophet PBUH is a mortal and will die. On the death of the Prophet PBUH, all the companions who had heard the news were shocked, saddened, and in extreme grief. Umar, the second caliph of Islam, was so stricken with sadness and shock that he was saying that he will kill anyone who says that the Prophet PBUH is dead. Abu Bakr, the first caliph, ordered Umar to calm down and said, "Whoever amongst you worshipped Muhammad PBUH, then Muhammad PBUH is dead, but whoever worshipped Allah, Allah is alive and will never die." He then recited the following verse from the Qur'an:
"Muhammad (PBUH) is no more than a Messenger: many were the Messengers that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will you then turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels not the least harm will he do to Allah; but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve him) with gratitude.
Our Prophet PBUH knew that people loved him but if he was any other man, he would have exploited this, extracted all the wealth from the people around him for his personal gain or told others to worship him. But he repeatedly told his followers that to not make of him what the Christians made of Jesus, as Jesus was also a prophet and a messenger, but the Christians took him as a god.
RustyNails
Member
A women's hajj without a mahram
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsWBqWtiRMQ
Can Women Travel Without a Mahram?
http://www.daruliftaa.com/question?txt_questionid=q-06550499
so why stupidity? the hadiths are clear or i overlooked an aspect.
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btw. islam class is going to get introduced here in germany for primary-school pupils. that's a good thing, right? no it is quite the opposite. the official textbook is available online and i was quite shocked reading it: there are some weird and downright wrong stuff in there. Moreover, one school actually started this week and the teacher (german convert) has said amongst others things that not only muslims will enter jannah. if that is true, what is going on here?!
i will write some stuff about this book tomorrow or the day after that to show what is wrong with it. wait till you read their sura al-fatiha 'translation'. it is ridiculous.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsWBqWtiRMQ
Can Women Travel Without a Mahram?
http://www.daruliftaa.com/question?txt_questionid=q-06550499
so why stupidity? the hadiths are clear or i overlooked an aspect.
---
btw. islam class is going to get introduced here in germany for primary-school pupils. that's a good thing, right? no it is quite the opposite. the official textbook is available online and i was quite shocked reading it: there are some weird and downright wrong stuff in there. Moreover, one school actually started this week and the teacher (german convert) has said amongst others things that not only muslims will enter jannah. if that is true, what is going on here?!
i will write some stuff about this book tomorrow or the day after that to show what is wrong with it. wait till you read their sura al-fatiha 'translation'. it is ridiculous.
RustyNails
Member
Ok, and what is the prescribed punishment for not traveling with mahram? Why does the government think its an enforceable rule, but not a personal decision? Prophet Muhammad also told us to pray 5 times a day, so do you think saudi government should enforce that as well?
Darackutny
Junior Member
@ Rusty:
I'm not aware of a prescribed punishment for such an action, however, it seems like the government of the KSA does try to push for an Islamic environment whenever they get the chance. Hence, that's why the rule about closing the shops at prayer times are in place.
I'm not aware of a prescribed punishment for such an action, however, it seems like the government of the KSA does try to push for an Islamic environment whenever they get the chance. Hence, that's why the rule about closing the shops at prayer times are in place.
Instigator
Banned
Mosques in Central Asia
Eid Mubarak
GA poster Ottomanscribe might be related to Gustav III of Sweden
What the Qu'ran prescribes... or not
Salafists are jerks
Cheers. What were the major points on the prescriptions of the Quran? I'll see if I can find it.
Dont have much knowledge on all the different sects I just stick to being a normal person...but from what I've heard and read I do know they interpret very strictly. I like the more theological sides, taking things word for word is pretty stupid when it comes to religion imo.
Are they the same as Wahabis? Cuz thats a no no right there.
Because blatant faith in something illogical (and misogynist) is the definition of stupidity?
i talked with my mom about this and she said that if a group plans hajj there are people who take care of the group, they ensure that there will be no problems when they do arrive there, people who know the rules. i think the problem of those nigerian women were that they didn't read up on the rules that much, maybe even simply didn't care or weren't competent enough - they just went there without thinking much about the consequences. because if they had done that then they would have known that there won't be allowed to do the hajj. these are not new rules.
i think it this way: the women should try to do the hajj, when the goverment doesn't allow them - then they should try again and again. if they succeed at the end or not, it doesn't "really" matter - the intention behind it is way more important. When injustice has been caused to those people, the more justice they will get in the afterlife. crying and protesting is wrong. patience and piety is all they need.
good point.
illogical to what standard/norm? to yours?
RustyNails
Member
I see your points, but I do NOT think that it's the government's job to enforce Prophet Muhammad's teachings. It's your parents' job. The shutting down of shops happened in King Khaled's time, and before that it was ok. But now we are hearing that closing of shops will not be mandatory in the near future. But anyways as far as travel is concerned, I again don't think the government should have authority to enforce it.
A woman traveling alone on a camel across the badlands in the 5th century was an easy target by bandits, hooligans and highwaymen everywhere in the world. It's not illogical to have someone accompany her. But today it's different.
A woman traveling alone on a camel across the badlands in the 5th century was an easy target by bandits, hooligans and highwaymen everywhere in the world. It's not illogical to have someone accompany her. But today it's different.
Darackutny
Junior Member
Isn't that the whole point of sharia law though? I hope you are not insinuating that parents should carry out flogging for fornicators. =p
Yeah, there is a difference of opinion about this. It all depends on who you ask I suppose. Even in Saudi today, you will not find complete uniformity in the religious rulings, so some will see it as acceptable to travel without a mahram. Falling under one school of thought doesn't mean that everyone agrees with one another when it comes to matters of jurisprudence.
Perhaps ironically, Ibn Taymiyyah, considered by many an early 8th century Wahabi scholar, saw it fit for women to travel without a mahram since those were safe times even without the existence of modern transportation.
As for me, I don't have an opinion since I haven't studied this matter.
So, here is the new textbook for muslim pupils in german classes: http://klettbib.livebook.de/978-3-12-006030-7/ it is in german though, but some stuff need no linguistical understanding to see the weird and downright wrong stuff in it.
the book is called "together on a path" - some problems i have with this book:
- not ONCE you find the shahada (1st pillar in islam) in the book, only 'La ilaha illallah'. weird, isn't it?
- actually you can't find a list of the 5 pillars in that book at all
- no mentioning of the Six Articles of Faith (One God; The angels of God; The books of God, especially the Qur'an; The prophets of God, especially Muhammad; The Day of Judgment (or the afterlife); and The supremacy of God's will (or predestination).
- there are songs to sing about god (p.26) and Mohammed (saws) (p.37)
- p.41 shows a male and a female kid praying side by side.
- Surah Al-Fatiha german translation (p.60): (translated into english)
i actually laughed reading the 2nd task regarding that translation:
"build small groups and think about motions/gestures to memorize the first surah better."
there is more but this should be enough to know that something is really wrong with this book.
if you start reading page after page, you kinda get the subliminal message behind this book: God loves me and i love god. therefore whatever i do - right or wrong. god will always love me and forgive me. there are no responsibilities, no duties in islam. you decide for yourself what is good and what not.
the book is called "together on a path" - some problems i have with this book:
- not ONCE you find the shahada (1st pillar in islam) in the book, only 'La ilaha illallah'. weird, isn't it?
- actually you can't find a list of the 5 pillars in that book at all
- no mentioning of the Six Articles of Faith (One God; The angels of God; The books of God, especially the Qur'an; The prophets of God, especially Muhammad; The Day of Judgment (or the afterlife); and The supremacy of God's will (or predestination).
- there are songs to sing about god (p.26) and Mohammed (saws) (p.37)
- p.41 shows a male and a female kid praying side by side.
- Surah Al-Fatiha german translation (p.60): (translated into english)
i actually laughed reading the 2nd task regarding that translation:
"build small groups and think about motions/gestures to memorize the first surah better."
there is more but this should be enough to know that something is really wrong with this book.
if you start reading page after page, you kinda get the subliminal message behind this book: God loves me and i love god. therefore whatever i do - right or wrong. god will always love me and forgive me. there are no responsibilities, no duties in islam. you decide for yourself what is good and what not.
Well Salafis are a school of Sunni thought that place an incredible amount of emphasis on the thoughts/deeds of the companions of the prophet in getting a true understanding of Islam.
They don't like the term Wahhabi as it's derived from Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab an incredibly intolerant Salafi scholar from the 18th century who entered into a pact with the Al-Sauds in Saudi Arabia and provided the religious rationale for their subsequent military takeover of the Saudi peninsula. His philosophy dominates Saudi Arabia still and is spreading with the help of Saudi control over Mecca and Medina and, more importantly, crazy amounts of oil money.
The Quran is treated very similarly by different sects. It's the Sunnah and the Hadith where a lot of the divergence in Islamic thought comes in.
There are a few points in the Quran where words can be taken to mean some pretty different things though. Daraba can mean either 'beat', 'have sex with', or 'leave', which makes quite a lot of difference in a verse regarding women.
Darackutny
Junior Member
:/
Hey fellow Muslim bros, first time checking in this thread (I think). I'm looking for guidance really.
I'll be straight up honest, I think religion is stupid but I do believe in God.
I've recently met another Muslim friend who I've opened up to about this and he told me in the end its between God and me.
Is it wrong for me to feel this way? God would want me to be happy and I am happy so why should I restrict my happiness with the restrictions that religion puts in place? Is it wrong that I choose to occasionally smoke a joint with friends or have a beer?
The worst part is telling my family.. I have no idea how to do that and I guess thats the main reason for my post. I have no idea how to break this to my family and its crushing me inside. Every time I go to the Mosque, every time I participate in religious activities, I feel like I'm living a lie...
Help?
I'll be straight up honest, I think religion is stupid but I do believe in God.
I've recently met another Muslim friend who I've opened up to about this and he told me in the end its between God and me.
Is it wrong for me to feel this way? God would want me to be happy and I am happy so why should I restrict my happiness with the restrictions that religion puts in place? Is it wrong that I choose to occasionally smoke a joint with friends or have a beer?
The worst part is telling my family.. I have no idea how to do that and I guess thats the main reason for my post. I have no idea how to break this to my family and its crushing me inside. Every time I go to the Mosque, every time I participate in religious activities, I feel like I'm living a lie...
Help?
Hey fellow Muslim bros, first time checking in this thread (I think). I'm looking for guidance really.
I'll be straight up honest, I think religion is stupid but I do believe in God.
I've recently met another Muslim friend who I've opened up to about this and he told me in the end its between God and me.
Is it wrong for me to feel this way? God would want me to be happy and I am happy so why should I restrict my happiness with the restrictions that religion puts in place? Is it wrong that I choose to occasionally smoke a joint with friends or have a beer?
The worst part is telling my family.. I have no idea how to do that and I guess thats the main reason for my post. I have no idea how to break this to my family and its crushing me inside. Every time I go to the Mosque, every time I participate in religious activities, I feel like I'm living a lie...
Help?
I'm kind of an in-betweener as well, and I've recently just joined this thread.
In the end it is between God and you, no one can judge otherwise. I don't think anyone can argue with that.
I believe in our religion 100%. The stories from the Quran, its message, all the Prophets.
I find myself in a 'limbo' like you too, I smoke a lot, have phases of binge drinking, basically indulging in worldly desires. We can't justify it from a religious perspective because it simply goes against the rules. But we can I think, (now I'm not trying to justify/make excuses etc - because they are wrong (if you believe in your religion)) say that we are human and all have weaknesses.
I mean I know people who pray 5 times a day, but then they will do a lot of back-biting about pretty much everyone around them, or do other things in secret. Like once I saw a guy with a huge beard and salwar kameez going to link a drug dealer. I have loads of stories of people like that. Which is worse? No one can say.
I was talking to my elder cousin about this last time I saw him, he's older but alot similar, and one thing he said to me was, when you go to sleep are you happy with what you've done? If the answer is yes, then be content, if not, then make changes...
I guess its ironic sometimes that maybe I've been for a night out, (drink included) and the day after I seek repentance because I genuinely feel bad. Or sometimes I just have a quick few and I feel okay. Its all dependent on the person.
As for your family, and when you said participating in these events feels like a lie, I used to feel the same, but in those events themselves there's genuine moments of happiness, like the coming together of families on Eid, and thats one thing your religion gives you, and other things too like helping the poor, not many other religions make that an obligatory act.
It was when I was about 16 (can I ask how old you are?) that I said the same thing as you, I believe in God but not religion. I stayed adamant at that for a while, but then while at uni I started actually reading into Islam, (I am by no means an expert on it, nor do I have a great understanding), and I think that if there was and should be any religion, let it be this. Its just the things around us that make us stray from it, and our inherent weaknesses as men/women.
Anyway this is getting long, I was pretty much the exact same boat, I'm not out of it completely yet, I'm trying, but its not sinking any more. And I've always said to everyone no matter how big the beard or how dark the burka (just for a little humour no offence anyone
) - that everyone has their own shit to deal with...Inshallah we will find the right way if we look for it, and with that comes no confusion.selam Kozak,
Do you generally think religion is stupid or islam itself?
What is your opinion on other religions?
Do you believe in the Day of Judgement and the afterlife?
How do you define happiness? drinking with your buds and smoking a joint?
Do you do any Du'a?
Do you study Islam in your free time? Like listening to lectures, reading books etc.
Do you generally think religion is stupid or islam itself?
What is your opinion on other religions?
Do you believe in the Day of Judgement and the afterlife?
How do you define happiness? drinking with your buds and smoking a joint?
Do you do any Du'a?
Do you study Islam in your free time? Like listening to lectures, reading books etc.
I don't believe everything taught is false, but I do believe that one should not be forced on these beliefs as I was. A person should have the chance to make their own choices on what they believe.
I don't believe the idea of piety to be unwise. In fact, I respect it. I do however, think it is unnecessary.
I wouldn't define myself as a Muslim, but my family would.
I'm kind of an in-betweener as well, and I've recently just joined this thread.
In the end it is between God and you, no one can judge otherwise. I don't think anyone can argue with that.
I believe in our religion 100%. The stories from the Quran, its message, all the Prophets.
I find myself in a 'limbo' like you too, I smoke a lot, have phases of binge drinking, basically indulging in worldly desires. We can't justify it from a religious perspective because it simply goes against the rules. But we can I think, (now I'm not trying to justify/make excuses etc - because they are wrong (if you believe in your religion)) say that we are human and all have weaknesses.
I mean I know people who pray 5 times a day, but then they will do a lot of back-biting about pretty much everyone around them, or do other things in secret. Like once I saw a guy with a huge beard and salwar kameez going to link a drug dealer. I have loads of stories of people like that. Which is worse? No one can say.
I was talking to my elder cousin about this last time I saw him, he's older but alot similar, and one thing he said to me was, when you go to sleep are you happy with what you've done? If the answer is yes, then be content, if not, then make changes...
I guess its ironic sometimes that maybe I've been for a night out, (drink included) and the day after I seek repentance because I genuinely feel bad. Or sometimes I just have a quick few and I feel okay. Its all dependent on the person.
As for your family, and when you said participating in these events feels like a lie, I used to feel the same, but in those events themselves there's genuine moments of happiness, like the coming together of families on Eid, and thats one thing your religion gives you, and other things too like helping the poor, not many other religions make that an obligatory act.
It was when I was about 16 (can I ask how old you are?) that I said the same thing as you, I believe in God but not religion. I stayed adamant at that for a while, but then while at uni I started actually reading into Islam, (I am by no means an expert on it, nor do I have a great understanding), and I think that if there was and should be any religion, let it be this. Its just the things around us that make us stray from it, and our inherent weaknesses as men/women.
Anyway this is getting long, I was pretty much the exact same boat, I'm not out of it completely yet, I'm trying, but its not sinking any more. And I've always said to everyone no matter how big the beard or how dark the burka (just for a little humour no offence anyone
Thanks for sharing. I am 20 years old and have only started questioning my religious beliefs at the age of 19.
I can understand that Islam or other religions can lead to a happy and fulfilling life but I do not wish to place restrictions on how I should live my life. I should instead choose to be a good person and if others around me are happy, I know that I am a good person.
I also believe religion is not what it was centuries ago. Those in power have corrupted what religion is.
This is what religion is today and I truly believe it isn't going to change any time soon or ever.
Sali said:
In general I think religion is stupid, all of them. They do not represent peace any more.
I'm not entirely sure on the afterlife. I do believe you do somehow exist after you die.
How do I define happiness? Being the best person that I can be and I may not be there yet, but I don't think drinking and smoking with my buds is hindering that. To be the best person that I can be I believe I need to be able to contribute to society and interact with my community while being a pleasant person.
I used to do Du'a but stopped in the past year.
I studied Islam when I was younger, a lot. I would pray more than 3 times a day in my youth.
crazy monkey
Banned
This is what religion is today and I truly believe it isn't going to change any time soon or ever.
.
If you have think that is the religion today than you have no idea about religion. A redneck in one part of america does not describe america.
victreeb3l
Member
This is what religion is today and I truly believe it isn't going to change any time soon or ever.
In general I think religion is stupid, all of them. They do not represent peace any more.
pretty ignorant of you to judge the majority from a small minority. youre better than this
haha yeah, i know a few people like that. this one dude i know prays 5 times a day, wears a salwar kameez all the time but at the same time the biggest pothead and alcoholic i know. i remember one time he said "bismillah" without even realizing before drinking beer once smh lol.
regarding the rest of your post, i can relate to all of that. i wasnt very religious growing up and i went through a period where i drank and smoked all the time and stuff. then one day about a year or so ago i just decided not to do that stuff any more. i dont know what triggered it but i just stopped.
maybe it started when i found some great role models and friends who were muslim. i also remember when one of my best friends came back from his military service in iraq, he told me how amazing it was hearing the azan daily and how he wanted to study and possibly convert. it was the first time i talked about islam in such a long time and made me remember all the stuff i loved about it. heck, lurking in this thread may have done some good too as well as random late night wikipedia binging. i also followed the abdullah bros blog over the summer and i thought what these guys were doing was very inspirational.
this past ramadan was especially a spiritual experience. the bonding with family and other worshippers, the fasting, the praying, the atmosphere, helping the needy, all of this brought about immense joy and a sudden clarity. like i finally know (or at least very close to) what i want to do and who i want to be. while sometimes i might have an off day and not do the most halal of things, but i find the ambivalence disappearing and a genuine desire to be better /endwalloftext
your cousin has some excellent advice.
Thank you very much for your reply, Kozak.
I understand your problem better now. You have some fundamental issues with religions. There are different way to confront these issues from different perspectives.
There is something praiseworthy about you and that is your belief in God. Imho it is hardest fact for the human kind to accept. Do you think God is one? Don't you think God would have somehow send a message to us to guide us? Why should our Creator create us and then leave us alone and helpless with no guidance? If someone believes in a Creator, he must believe there is a message out there somewhere, and this message guides this person, tells him what he has to do, what he can do, what he should avoid and what he shouldn't do - like a parent raises his child. A parent cares for his child, doesn't leave it alone and tells him the "Dos und Donts" - regardless what the child thinks is best for himself. It is your job to find this message. If you really believe in God, you shouldn't be too lazy to care about that.
You are in a turning point of your life - either you belief in God and try to find the right way he wants you to live or you ignore it and maybe have to live with the consequences in the afterlife. Forget everything you learned to this point about religions, forget what the media is saying, start a new page and confront it with an open mind. If you believe in one God, then one of the three monotheistic religions needs to be the truth. If you think these are corrupted, look behind the corruption. This is hard work and sometimes you will think that it is just nonsense and a waste of time. But you should know that patience is always recommended. Start with the basics again.
I am pretty sure you know what the first word of the first revelation was that was revealed to our prophet Mohammed (saw). The first revelation was the first five verses of Surah Al-Alaq (96):
So you better start reading. With what to start and what to read is up to you.
You won't find an ultimate answer here, no words that will ease your pain or wash away your doubts. It is going to be a long and enduring process for you. However, i will make Du'a for you. That is the least i can do for a brother searching for God.
I understand your problem better now. You have some fundamental issues with religions. There are different way to confront these issues from different perspectives.
There is something praiseworthy about you and that is your belief in God. Imho it is hardest fact for the human kind to accept. Do you think God is one? Don't you think God would have somehow send a message to us to guide us? Why should our Creator create us and then leave us alone and helpless with no guidance? If someone believes in a Creator, he must believe there is a message out there somewhere, and this message guides this person, tells him what he has to do, what he can do, what he should avoid and what he shouldn't do - like a parent raises his child. A parent cares for his child, doesn't leave it alone and tells him the "Dos und Donts" - regardless what the child thinks is best for himself. It is your job to find this message. If you really believe in God, you shouldn't be too lazy to care about that.
You are in a turning point of your life - either you belief in God and try to find the right way he wants you to live or you ignore it and maybe have to live with the consequences in the afterlife. Forget everything you learned to this point about religions, forget what the media is saying, start a new page and confront it with an open mind. If you believe in one God, then one of the three monotheistic religions needs to be the truth. If you think these are corrupted, look behind the corruption. This is hard work and sometimes you will think that it is just nonsense and a waste of time. But you should know that patience is always recommended. Start with the basics again.
I am pretty sure you know what the first word of the first revelation was that was revealed to our prophet Mohammed (saw). The first revelation was the first five verses of Surah Al-Alaq (96):
So you better start reading. With what to start and what to read is up to you.
You won't find an ultimate answer here, no words that will ease your pain or wash away your doubts. It is going to be a long and enduring process for you. However, i will make Du'a for you. That is the least i can do for a brother searching for God.
I get you dude. Although I'm pretty surprised at the pic you've posted, thats just what mainstream media tells us religion is, it's our duty to find out the truth. No doubt about it though, it HAS become corrupted over the years, but should we become corrupted with that? I mean a lot of people fall in to that trap, doesn't mean we all have to. I absolutely despise most people today who claim to fall into that super religious category because they are usually the most corrupt.
I don't know what background you are from, but like in my hometown in England, (and from a Pakistani background), they have these 'peers' super dooper religious dudes who go around making people think they are godly. I remember I was a kid in the family mosque and I was joking with my uncle when I didnt see him and said I cant see. He replied...go see the Peer, he will fix your eyes. And you look there and theres a que of people going up to him kissing his hand and dropping a 5 pound note in there. I havent been there since. But thats one in a lot, we can't generalise, we just have to sift through all the bullshit thats around us and see the real purity in whatever we look at, simplicity is most often the best route we can take. What people have done today is to make it more complex than it ever needed to be....
Like theres the hadith about Islam being strange when it first came about, and will become strange again. Today its strange in more than one sense, one in that we are portrayed as terrorists, and the other in that most of the ummah don't even know what it is itself in its purity, we are too busy with all this secular conflict and saying whose Sunni, Shi'a, Wahabi, Sufi etc... thats pointless.
Completely agree with you about the happiness bit, I don't see them as hindering me being a good person. In fact smoking herb is what triggered me to start reading about religion, not just mine but all of them.
Studying when you are younger is different, I think we all did, you know when the parents are like hey you gotta go to the mosque, do this do that. Thats force. We all have a duty to read in to all aspects of our own religion, challenge it and learn if necessary, and to also educate ourselves about other religions, even atheism (though not a religion! - lets say ideologies).
With age comes maturity and I think thats the only real time someone can start looking and learning about these things, as you are doing now.
The thing that stands out about your post is what's highlighted, like not anymore, in the past, etc....closer to its origins it was pure, time and greed corrupt, should we then think that it is itself corrupt, and fail to see the original purity of it? That goes for all religions.
As someone else has said, its up to you, read and what not, no one can blame you for making any choice you make. Thats what makes us unique right, the gift of choice. Just don't do it blindly. I'm glad I didn't.
Cheers. I don't currently have many friends in my immediate surroundings who are muslim, in fact most are atheist. We often have debates and heated arguments about religion. But I don't let that get in my way. Although I guess yeah having friends who are the same would be more of a straight path, I guess the challenge is what we need sometimes. When Im at home (I live in china so home is far away - been once in the last year and half) what you said is true, the company makes all the difference, where I am now though is a really free muslim city, they are respected members of the community and lots of halal places.
This past ramadan was the worst I ever had, or did. The first night I was out, cracked my head up (I took that as a sign). The day after I fasted and went to the mosque on my street for iftar, it was amazing, people were being so hospitable and helping us (me and my cousin), giving food, praying with us, sharing contact details. It really did feel great.
The day after though, it wasnt that I forgot, I just didnt do. That was the only fast I kept during the month. Felt terrible about it, but whats done is done.
The bit you've highlighted is kind of where I am now, although it's not an off day, its half of them (atleast).
Story for you all though, as to one reason I despise these mullah-wannabe's. Two nights ago I was with my cousin and he has told me about some new guy in the city, from canada, and muslim, albeit strange. He works in a school (not mine - thank god!) with alot of foreign teachers, all british or american, he has a pakistani background. However, he's been saying in school that he doesnt want to touch girls, or kids (thats not a requirement of course, he just explicitly said that one day). He doesnt drink or smoke. He has a beard. He says assalam alaikum when he makes a phone call and meets people. But then all of a sudden when he met my cousin, he asks him 'so they do good massages here right?'.
I finally met this guy that night. I was already kind of u.i. so I'm in a bar, some random dudes I've never met, the reason we went was to see this guy and his antics, the usual, Assalam on the telephone to give us directions, etc etc, giving me dirty evil looks as I'm enjoying myself with a glass...
He stands up and he's about to leave. When he says 'yeah so Im going to a good korean massage place (we live in remote china, they dont like japanese and korean people, korea is not famous for massages yet he kind of stressed that bit) - they put candles in your ears!'...we replied with a dirty spin off of the candle line...this INFURIATED him. He proceeded to insult asian women, say he wouldn't want to catch an STD, so and so....it was clear where he was going though.
I just thought I'd share that. We all found it hilarious, I found it funny but also just completely screwed up. It's the image he presents as a Muslim to all these people of different backgrounds, that night we had a Jewish guy, Atheists and Christians, he shows this super ultra image and then completely crashes it with the massage bit. That's what a lot of people do, and they give us all a bad name. If you're gonna do something, don't hide it! Just be honest about what they do!
That kind of went long again. Sorry GAF.
kobashi100
Banned
French rapper stuns fans, makes first TV appearance wearing hijab
http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/10/01/241253.html
http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/10/01/241253.html
Darackutny
Junior Member
Fake sick/oversleep on Fridays.
Carrying these burdens every once in a while is probably for the best. Breaking this stuff to your family, depending on their level of spirituality, could be devastating.
Like some of the other folks here, I do suggest reading more about Islam. I do not suggest contemporary sources either. Read about early Islam from the old school scholars. You'd be surprised at how dedicated, well thought out, and rational those people were.
Terra Firma
Banned
A few problems with Kozak and people like him:
1. Lack of knowledge of the religion.
2. Judging the religion by a minority of its followers. And this is funny because if you're born into a Muslim family, unless you see most of your Muslim relatives doing the same thing that you claim Muslims do, then I see this as extreme willful ignorance or having a mind that has been made up.
3. An irreligious upbringing (sorry, but praying 3 times a day sometimes does not a religious person make).
4. Taking the self and desires are being more important than God.
5. Trying to fit in to the society around them and then finding flaws that don't exist in the religion to justify rejecting the religion itself.
Kozak, do you love God? If you love God, what makes you think you can love God on your terms? You think drinking beers and smoking marijuana isn't a bad thing. That is called moral relativism and has no place in Islam. That is because a person can justify every evil that exists because guess what? He believes it to be good and alright. A person can have incestuous relationships with his mother/sister and say that God would want him to be happy. And what is wrong about this relationship, really, if both sides are consenting? Can you answer this question for me?
1. Lack of knowledge of the religion.
2. Judging the religion by a minority of its followers. And this is funny because if you're born into a Muslim family, unless you see most of your Muslim relatives doing the same thing that you claim Muslims do, then I see this as extreme willful ignorance or having a mind that has been made up.
3. An irreligious upbringing (sorry, but praying 3 times a day sometimes does not a religious person make).
4. Taking the self and desires are being more important than God.
5. Trying to fit in to the society around them and then finding flaws that don't exist in the religion to justify rejecting the religion itself.
Kozak, do you love God? If you love God, what makes you think you can love God on your terms? You think drinking beers and smoking marijuana isn't a bad thing. That is called moral relativism and has no place in Islam. That is because a person can justify every evil that exists because guess what? He believes it to be good and alright. A person can have incestuous relationships with his mother/sister and say that God would want him to be happy. And what is wrong about this relationship, really, if both sides are consenting? Can you answer this question for me?
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
Prayer in Islam is 5 times a day not three. Anybody who knows the Israa & Miraj incident knows thats it's five.
Except during travels it can be grouped to three.
Except during travels it can be grouped to three.
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