FrenchMovieTheme
Member
and i saw this happen! SAGE ROSENFELS ON THE KEEPER! TEXANS WIN 255-0!!!
ramirez i have to work tomorrow or i would play!
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Official Madden Season 11 Thread: The school books say it can't be here again!
- Thread starter FrenchMovieTheme
- Start date
and i saw this happen! SAGE ROSENFELS ON THE KEEPER! TEXANS WIN 255-0!!!
ramirez i have to work tomorrow or i would play!
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
It will have to be this weekend some time. I should be around Saturday night and some on Sunday during the day and evening.Gunstar77 said:
Shawnwhann
Banned
Since there hasn't been any real dialouge regarding the new constraints that are being approved, let me start the discussion...
I'm all for rules to help people enjoy the game and whatnot, but this new poll is by far the most needless one ever.... If people are concerned about 3rd and 4th string CB playing man vs recievers, then maybe they need to start playing zone a little more so it isn't obvious what type of defense you are playing. We've done four successful leagues between Madden '07 and Madden '08 without man lock, and I don't see the need to start adding a new rule that lowers the level of strategy involved with our games. If would be one thing if there was an epidemic of all the #1 receivers leading the league with crazy stats, but only 4 "#1 recievers" are in the top ten with receptions. So I ask, where is the need to actually raise a vote come from....my insane stats with Steve Smith?!?
My real life Cowboys are a perfect example of how it's an offenses' job to create mismatches to get big plays. T.O. is moved around all game. Sometimes he is lined up on the edge, sometimes slot, sometimes motioning out the backfield etc.
I know everyone enjoys a competitive league, but this rule would seriously hurt my ability to enjoy myself. For as long as I can remember playing Madden, I've always adjusted my packages defensively and offensively to play to my strengths. Please don't limit my enjoyment of the game any further.... I've already lost my beloved Cowboys, I'm stuck with Vumpler's Panthers, I'm in a division with Ando, and now you wanna hit me with a new rule that bans innovation with getting my #1 offensive threat the ball....it's almost enough to make me say forget it this season...
I'm all for rules to help people enjoy the game and whatnot, but this new poll is by far the most needless one ever.... If people are concerned about 3rd and 4th string CB playing man vs recievers, then maybe they need to start playing zone a little more so it isn't obvious what type of defense you are playing. We've done four successful leagues between Madden '07 and Madden '08 without man lock, and I don't see the need to start adding a new rule that lowers the level of strategy involved with our games. If would be one thing if there was an epidemic of all the #1 receivers leading the league with crazy stats, but only 4 "#1 recievers" are in the top ten with receptions. So I ask, where is the need to actually raise a vote come from....my insane stats with Steve Smith?!?
My real life Cowboys are a perfect example of how it's an offenses' job to create mismatches to get big plays. T.O. is moved around all game. Sometimes he is lined up on the edge, sometimes slot, sometimes motioning out the backfield etc.
I know everyone enjoys a competitive league, but this rule would seriously hurt my ability to enjoy myself. For as long as I can remember playing Madden, I've always adjusted my packages defensively and offensively to play to my strengths. Please don't limit my enjoyment of the game any further.... I've already lost my beloved Cowboys, I'm stuck with Vumpler's Panthers, I'm in a division with Ando, and now you wanna hit me with a new rule that bans innovation with getting my #1 offensive threat the ball....it's almost enough to make me say forget it this season...
I move my #1 receiver around to exploit mismatches, and if the poll doesn't create a new rule, I will continue to do so and make no apologies. That said, the "real life Cowboys" moving TO around would usually be countered with the defense moving their #1 corner on top of him. Since that's not possible in Madden, I can't say it's not a bit cheesy. I shouldn't be forced to audible to zone coverage because TO lines up at TE.
Shawnwhann
Banned
Slo said:
No one is lining up any WR at TE, as that should be grounds for removal from the league. So please don't make up scenarios that dont apply to support your point...Regarding the real life Cowboys, mismatches happen all the time. Perhaps you should consider that maybe...just maybe...a defense can't always have the matchups they would like.
To extend this scenario to show the potential effect of this rule...If can't move around Steve Smith then you shouldn't be able to line up Reggie Bush in the slot on offense...Since I can't put my best corner on him, then I don't think it's fair you can line him up against my 3rd CB.... See how ridiculous this can get? You support such constraints?
Shawnwhann said:
It was just an extreme example, and not meant to be taken literally. Mismatches do happen, but never because an All-Pro cornerback is too stupid or too stubborn to realize that he's covering a second string punt returner rather than the stud receiver. It's the games fault for allowing this to happen.
I understand what you're saying. And yes, I can create scenarios when a 5th string DB is covering Reggie Bush. Putting him in the slot in a 3-1-1 formation I don't see a problem with, as I think you'd probably rather have a #3 corner cover him than an OLB. But that's beside the point.
In general, I think this league needs less rules, rather than more. There are holes and exploits in the game, but you can't legislate being a prick. We don't want this to be sharkwaters, but for fuck's sake, it seems like we've got a new rule every week! Or at least a controversy about a rule. This is a private league, if people are being assholes, tell them to take a hike.
Shawnwhann
Banned
Slo said:
1000% agreed! The salient point that should be taken from this is that we all have a responsibility to play the game the right way. More rules zap out the fun and makes playing the game an exercise vs. a joy...
DCX
DCX
To many rules do suck the fun out of playing, but at the same time i like that our league listen to the complaints of it's owners are trys to find a middle ground. I hate Smith in the slot. Bush is fine because he lines up there just about all the time when he plays a WR. Smith lines up X or Z, i rarely have seen him line up in the slot. I may be wrong, but i think that's the issue. It's sucks we cant counter it other than running a zone or a nickel D.
DCX
DCX
GG Slo...
What a fucking debacle... I got beat, fair and square, but I'll be damned if the update wasn't supposed to tone down the coverage. Two pick-sixes to start the game... the first to a totally uncovered man... but the CB covering a crossing guy made a super-Madden-athleticism play to jump the pass and take it. Second pick-six, all my fault.
EDIT: The funny thing is that I thought I got away with a couple of dangerous throws, and then the ones that looked like sure things got picked. Ha. Ha. Ha.
But bottom line, it was 14-0 before Slo's offense ever took the field.
In all I had four picks, two were bad throws, two I think should have been touchdowns my way. I think Slo had my number anyhow, but I don't think 31-7 should've been the final score.
Might have a bit of a struggle in my eternal quest for .500 this year...
What a fucking debacle... I got beat, fair and square, but I'll be damned if the update wasn't supposed to tone down the coverage. Two pick-sixes to start the game... the first to a totally uncovered man... but the CB covering a crossing guy made a super-Madden-athleticism play to jump the pass and take it. Second pick-six, all my fault.
EDIT: The funny thing is that I thought I got away with a couple of dangerous throws, and then the ones that looked like sure things got picked. Ha. Ha. Ha.
But bottom line, it was 14-0 before Slo's offense ever took the field.
In all I had four picks, two were bad throws, two I think should have been touchdowns my way. I think Slo had my number anyhow, but I don't think 31-7 should've been the final score.
Might have a bit of a struggle in my eternal quest for .500 this year...
Slo said:
I don't think you were dominated... I think your defenders had horseshoes, sure, but your offense was solid, and your D wasn't exactly a pushover, even when it wasn't running back picks for six
If the game didn't unfold the way it did, I'm sure it would have been tighter, but you'd have put up more scoring offensively anyhow..
But yeah, it was a frustrating game... this marks the first time my 360 controller has been thrown since I bought the system last September. It was a good run.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
there is no epidemic with #1 spectacular catch WR's leading the league because i don't think many people put their #1 in the slot on a consistent basis. I have andre johnson and in 5 games I have put him in the slot a total of maybe 3 times. steve smith and javon walker (last year, ando + broncos) are 2 WR's who were used in the slot a decent amount who had an insane amount of catches.
and it would be nice if this were real life so my #1 cb could stay on terrell owens all game. remember in the NFC championship game? I got burned a few times because you lined up owens in the slot and he was on a DIME CB. a 67 rated DIME cb against one of the top 5 WR's in the game. how is that fair? oh right, i should've known you were going to line him up in the slot and called a zone. or call zone every play JUST INCASE!
did you think maybe others don't like playing against steve smith in the slot? or that may hinder their enjoyment? i'll be honest. i play straight up. i don't need to scheme or run a gimmick offense. i say i'm going to run this play, i'm not going to hide my top guys in the slot, or put a CB at WR or whatever else REAL nfl teams do because the limitations of the AI prevent that from being a reality.
why would you even want to win a game where you won because you took advantage of a missing feature in the game? maybe i'm in the minority (i'm not) but i'd prefer to just take it to someone, play straight up, and LOSE, rather than win by saying oh hey chad johnson scored the winning TD against a 4th string WR because my opponent didn't know i was going to call 4 wide with a slot #1 wr. not sure how that's realistic or fair (unless, as i told mrbob, you are the 2005 Chicago Bears in the playoffs against steve smith!)
Wellington
BAAAALLLINNN'
I honestly don't understand how Denog managed to win 2 games with the Jets. Their offense is absolutely putrid. I can't do anything no matter what playbook I use.
Wellington
BAAAALLLINNN'
Sure, the XBL name is Wellie.
Wellington
BAAAALLLINNN'
I don't know your XBL name.SickBoy said:
Shawnwhann
Banned
FMT said:
Obviously we are arguing about two different things. I'm annoyed at the prospect of a rule declaring I can't put a receiver in the slot, while you are complaining about people exploiting a missing feature on purpose by ALWAYS having a #1 receiver in the slot. I don't put my guys in the slot on a consistent basis either. I put Smith all over the place just like I did with Owens. I line Smith up as an X, Y, Slot, second slot on a Trips formation etc. My whole beef from the fact that IF I wanted to there is a rule coming declaring I cannot. Hence I feel you are creating an issue by preemptively making a rule that is not neccessary.
FMT said:
I dont remember much about that game because it was a clunker I would like to forget. Regarding how fair it is to line up Owens vs a 67 rated CB, I'd respectfully say I dont care how "fair" it is... I'm not doing anything that is blantantly cheap, I'm taking advantage of a mismatch. Given all the defensive hot routes at our disposal in this game, it is possible to double or triple anybody in the game. So that 67 rated CB is not defenseless unless you choose not to give him some help manually or with a hot route to double or shade.
One of my favorite formations from the Cowboys playbook is the Shotgun Trips formation. And by default, Owens is a slot player...just like Smith is a slot player by default from that same formation...So it was very possible the scenario you mention came from a situation where Owens was where he was by default...
FMT said:
To suggest someone moving around their personnel to create unique looks is a "gimmick" offense isn't fair. Playing straight and utilizing tools that are there for us to experiment with are not two mutually exclusive concepts.
You are creating hypotheticals that are not reflecting reality regarding your last paragraph. If you can point me to a post or an argument that reflects this scenario coming into play, I'll eat crow on this point I'm making. To speak to your Chad Johnson example, the player that does not account for where the playmakers are on the field in the last throws of a game deserves to lose. Like I said there are plenty of defensive hot routes one can utilize to make Chad Johnson a non option for the offense.
I respect the fact you are looking to squash any potential issues with this preemptive rule, but I respectfully feel you are off on this one. We can agree to disagree, but the picture you're painting of "slot CB is helpless" is far from the reality.
Wellington
BAAAALLLINNN'
GG Sickboy. I knew that userpick was going to get called back.
I think I know of the instance where WRs are lined up wrong.. its usually different shotgun formations, they automatically put the receiver where ever... I would hope that is the case and that it is not someone pausing the game and moving the wr to another side or position.
I dont think there should be a rule though.. before every play, I zoom out, find where the super receiver is and I adjust what i need to...
I dont think there should be a rule though.. before every play, I zoom out, find where the super receiver is and I adjust what i need to...
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
it's 4th and 10. you're down by 4 with a minute left at midfield. you going to lineup steve smith at his normal position where you know the opposing teams #1 cb will be on him, or would you put him in the slot against a 3rd or 4th string cb? we both know the answer. that is my beef, and i'm not singling you out, but anyone with a #1 receiver like that (myself included) can abuse it without the raw numbers.
exactly, you don't care how fair it is. you're taking advantage of a mismatch that i essentially have no idea is coming. it's not "blatantly" cheap, but it is a little ridiculous. "all" the defensive hot routes? which would those be? spotlighting which doesn't identify WHO is going to be helping in coverage? how about picking a player and calling a double team, even though the 2nd man in on the play wont lineup directly across from the WR (so an out pattern is guaranteed and a double team doesn't help, because by the time the safety gets over there, the WR would have already ran away from the double.
you also can't spotlight terrell owens out of that formation (the glitch earlier where he is actually the R trigger).
wasn't saying your offense was a gimmick, but pointing out that there are offenses in the nfl that run gimmick plays and the defense can adapt/adjust because they aren't AI.
the slot CB isn't absolutely helpless, but you have to agree that it is ridiculous to lineup a 90+ WR against a 60+ CB when you KNOW your opponent has no option to stop that without a) calling a timeout or b) compromising your entire defense. these receivers are tough enough to cover as-is, and when you take into account the "tools" we are given on defense don't always work as they should then there's a problem.
the vote isn't final. what i mean is that even if "ban #1 WR slot play!" wins in the vote it doesn't necessarily mean ill ban it but if no one else is doing it, why do you feel the need to?
Wellington said:GG Sickboy. I knew that userpick was going to get called back.
Heh, I had no idea.. I just didn't want my guys chasing you so they'd be fatigued next play (happened anyhow). EDIT: I did wonder what happened, though... seemed like he was really wide open for a moment.
Thanks for the game. My one criticism is you called your offensive plays way too fast. I was trying a new defensive playbook and I barely had a chance to scroll through my plays before I realized I had three seconds to go.
Still, got to try out some new things, which was nice.
As for this patch, I don't know what it's done (if anything). I threw a couple of bad picks (including trying to tap RB to pump fake.... nice), but one of the reasons I wanted to play this game is to try out some passes that I normally wouldn't throw.
First pick of the game, I threw into traffic, yes -- there were three guys in the area of the pass, but only one guy really covering the receiver. If it had been picked by one of the other two making a nice Madden leap, I'd be better with it, but I had a guy running a hook, he'd just made his move... the defender's back was turned, and while it did take him a second to turn around, he still managed to make the play.
At the end of the game, I had a similar situation, but this time the pass unfolded as I'd expect against real coverage.
Based on my last two games, I don't think the patch has performed as advertised... I'd hoped to open up the playbook a little more for the league, but I don't think that's going to happen based on what I've seen.
Wellington
BAAAALLLINNN'
SickBoy said:Heh, I had no idea.. I just didn't want my guys chasing you so they'd be fatigued next play (happened anyhow). EDIT: I did wonder what happened, though... seemed like he was really wide open for a moment.
Thanks for the game. My one criticism is you called your offensive plays way too fast. I was trying a new defensive playbook and I barely had a chance to scroll through my plays before I realized I had three seconds to go.
Still, got to try out some new things, which was nice.
As for this patch, I don't know what it's done (if anything). I threw a couple of bad picks (including trying to tap RB to pump fake.... nice), but one of the reasons I wanted to play this game is to try out some passes that I normally wouldn't throw.
First pick of the game, I threw into traffic, yes -- there were three guys in the area of the pass, but only one guy really covering the receiver. If it had been picked by one of the other two making a nice Madden leap, I'd be better with it, but I had a guy running a hook, he'd just made his move... the defender's back was turned, and while it did take him a second to turn around, he still managed to make the play.
At the end of the game, I had a similar situation, but this time the pass unfolded as I'd expect against real coverage.
Based on my last two games, I don't think the patch has performed as advertised... I'd hoped to open up the playbook a little more for the league, but I don't think that's going to happen based on what I've seen.
I haven't noticed a single change in DB play, and am thus disregarding the idea that any patch was actually issued.
Wellington said:
That's going to be my plan now... I was excited to read about the alleged update and its alleged effects, but if anything, I've had a worse time of it since...
EDIT: And anyone reading this, my apologies in advance... as the season goes on, my pregame substitutions are going to take quite a while... lots of injuries, and seemingly general weirdness on my depth chart...
Shawnwhann
Banned
FMT said:
Dont want to come off as difficult, but I don't know what I'd do in that scenario without context. Is my opponent playing alot of zone, man, blitzes, zone blitzes etc. I see the point you are making, but I dont rely on a bail out play or formation to get me out of tough situations.
FMT said:
Agreed... I dont care in the sense that your defense is your problem! If my opponent did not have the foresight to preset his audibles to account for pass heavy formations, it is not my fault. To expand on the logic you are using, I should feel bad when I come out in a 4WR formation when the opposition preemptively picked a 4-3 formation because he expected a run on a 2nd and 2.
Regarding the hot routes, a player can crowd the line of scrimmage, double/triple/quadruple a receiver with a safety/LB/lineman, shade coverage, highlight a player etc. IMO, that's enough tools to work with...
In that formation, Owens is the X button IIRC
FMT said:
In accordance to how I prefer everything in my life, I like having options. I get a great sense of accomplishment and enjoyment from attacking someone in a way they don't expect. I'm not just talking about passing either. When I had the Cowboys I loved running the ball, as a result I led the league is rushing TDs and had one game where I rushed for like 323 yards. Being stuck with the Panthers this season leaves me with no choice but to air it out. And considering Steve Smith is my offense, I need to find creative ways to get him the ball. Lining im up in the slot occasionally helps with that objective. Hopefully that answers your question.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
"attacking someone in a way they don't expect" is running a draw play on 3rd and 8. putting your #1 receiver in the slot isn't attacking someone in a way they don't expect, it's attacking someone in a way they can't properly defend without randomly guessing before the play starts and putting the #1 cb in the slot.
could've all been avoided with man lock EA! all of it!
Shawnwhann
Banned
:lol
And with that, yall have a great day. Wellie I'll be good to go for Tuesday for our week 4 game. Otherwise we are looking at Wednesday and beyond.
dammitmattt
Banned
I never line Walker up in the slot. The only time he gets mismatches are when he's playing against a zone d (or cb blitz, of course). Spectacular Catch WRs are difficult enough for even Champ Bailey to defend, so I've never felt the need to move them around.
Shawnwhann
Banned
FMT's signature quirkiness! I've said my peace on the matter so whatever happens...happens.
FMT's post wasn't quirky. It was clear and true, like his heart. If you've said all you want to say, so be it. I don't really get to chime in now that I've quit anyhow.
edit: What? Rors, are you referring to Matrix? I'm sorry that he feels that way, but I don't regret my choice. I'd like no one else to quit, because it's a great league.
edit: What? Rors, are you referring to Matrix? I'm sorry that he feels that way, but I don't regret my choice. I'd like no one else to quit, because it's a great league.
Shawnwhann
Banned
:lol What crawled up your ass and died?!? Grab a drink and watch one of those videos you link us to to cheer yourself up! I'm bathing in positivity out here in beautiful Santa Barbara,CA...wish you were here!
ChrisJames
Member
Adding another fucked up turn to this season, my dogs chewed my copy of Madden (there's a hole through the disc) and it doesn't work anymore...
So... I'm not going to quit the league, but I'll probably have to schedule games and then go rent the game for that night. Or I'll have to buy it again (which I really don't want to do).
Damn dogs.
p.s. They are two tiny dogs (1 chihuahua, 1 jack russell mix). Not pitbulls or something.
So... I'm not going to quit the league, but I'll probably have to schedule games and then go rent the game for that night. Or I'll have to buy it again (which I really don't want to do).
Damn dogs.
p.s. They are two tiny dogs (1 chihuahua, 1 jack russell mix). Not pitbulls or something.
Wow. The league has turned into homework for some people.ChrisJames said:
When I was a kid, our rabbits ate through my SNES cables. >:| Controllers, AV, power...everything. They also ate through some old comics. :\
Oh, and more recently, I had to break my usb headset to break my entangled cat free. :lol Dumb cat. >:|
Lesson: don't get pets if you have cool stuff!