GitarooMan
Member
I highly doubt it.Stopsign said:
Official October 2008 NPD Results
- Thread starter sonycowboy
- Start date
hydragonwarrior
Member
I'm a fan of Nintendo and all, but if a game like Mirror's Edge or Bioshock was brought to Wii instead of the HD consoles, I would probably think twice to purchasing it unless I heard it had great gameplay as well. Even if i purchased the game cause it got rave reviews, the inevitable graphical downgrade would make me wonder how it COULD've looked.
Just from videos only, I want to buy Mirror Edge cause of the look and feel to it; the impact of how a game looks and "flows" in motion (and music lol) has always been a good deciding factor on a game purchase for me. And I think it IS a selling point for games out there that actually want to sell and stand out from their competitors.
Great gameplay can exist on ALL the consoles, but some Nintendo fans need to understand that it doesn't mean great or high-end graphics have to be sacrificed for it. I think once Wii gets that "wants to break new ground" game is when a lot of those hardcore Nintendo console only gamers will realize the desire for stronger hardware (like a dev steps up and makes a Battle of the Collosus-scale game).
And yes, i understand the graphics hardware in the Wii was purposefully kept "low-end" in order to keep it reasonably priced to new consumers (since it is marketed towards new gamers atm), which is one of the big reasons it's winning the console war inthe first place.
Just from videos only, I want to buy Mirror Edge cause of the look and feel to it; the impact of how a game looks and "flows" in motion (and music lol) has always been a good deciding factor on a game purchase for me. And I think it IS a selling point for games out there that actually want to sell and stand out from their competitors.
Great gameplay can exist on ALL the consoles, but some Nintendo fans need to understand that it doesn't mean great or high-end graphics have to be sacrificed for it. I think once Wii gets that "wants to break new ground" game is when a lot of those hardcore Nintendo console only gamers will realize the desire for stronger hardware (like a dev steps up and makes a Battle of the Collosus-scale game).
And yes, i understand the graphics hardware in the Wii was purposefully kept "low-end" in order to keep it reasonably priced to new consumers (since it is marketed towards new gamers atm), which is one of the big reasons it's winning the console war inthe first place.
thestopsign
Member
GitarooMan said:
They have a chance, of course pretty much any game has a "chance", but I think they have a higher chance than most other games out there if they are advertised well.
They way I see it, third party games on Wii are between a rock and a hard place. The first problem is the Nintendo fan, it's not Nintendo or Zelda or Mario so it's shit. Just now someone asked me for a good Wii game, and I showed him the 8/10 review for COD:WaW. Maybe he should try it out. But he won't because it's not Nintendo or Capcom so it sucks.
The second problem is graphics. When I buy a COD game, I get it for the Xbox 360 or PC. I can get my Wii-remote shooter fix with Metroid and my FPS fix on PC so I don't need to experience 'mouse-like' FPS controls. So most multiplatform gamers will go for the Xbox 360 version and not the Wii verson.
The third problem is new IP's. Games like Zack & Wiki, didn't sell well because the games are not known to a wide variety of people. Resident Evil, especially Resident Evil 4 rings a bell but a title like Ghost Squad doesn't. I can only think of one company that tried to get attention, Red Steel and Rayman Raving Rabbids from Ubisoft. They were supposed to be 'the' third party launch titles when even the shoddy COD3 and NFS Carbon port outclassed them, not to mention SEGA's Monkey Ball game. People won't think of "Red Steel" the "Revolution Shooter" next, instead they'll think of the POS it was. Even if the sequel is amazing it's going to be hurt by this. That's why Ubisoft hasn't announced it yet, they know it's a dead series because the first game sucked hard.
On top of this issue there's the competition with Nintendo. You don't have to bother releasing your own platfrom game against Super Mario Galaxy. But Call of Duty could easily match, if not outclass HALO 3.
The second problem is graphics. When I buy a COD game, I get it for the Xbox 360 or PC. I can get my Wii-remote shooter fix with Metroid and my FPS fix on PC so I don't need to experience 'mouse-like' FPS controls. So most multiplatform gamers will go for the Xbox 360 version and not the Wii verson.
The third problem is new IP's. Games like Zack & Wiki, didn't sell well because the games are not known to a wide variety of people. Resident Evil, especially Resident Evil 4 rings a bell but a title like Ghost Squad doesn't. I can only think of one company that tried to get attention, Red Steel and Rayman Raving Rabbids from Ubisoft. They were supposed to be 'the' third party launch titles when even the shoddy COD3 and NFS Carbon port outclassed them, not to mention SEGA's Monkey Ball game. People won't think of "Red Steel" the "Revolution Shooter" next, instead they'll think of the POS it was. Even if the sequel is amazing it's going to be hurt by this. That's why Ubisoft hasn't announced it yet, they know it's a dead series because the first game sucked hard.
On top of this issue there's the competition with Nintendo. You don't have to bother releasing your own platfrom game against Super Mario Galaxy. But Call of Duty could easily match, if not outclass HALO 3.
Aaron Strife
Banned
The Wii version of Force Unleashed did well enough to make the top ten (I think, I may be misremembering), so I'm sure Clone Wars will do well too.onipex said:
Sonic Unleashed, maybe Tales of Symphonia 2.
[Nintex] said:
The way I see it you are wrong. Wii third party sales are fine and that has been proven in this thread already. Capcom stated they they are happy with the Zak & Wiki sales . Just like you choose graphics over controls there are people that choose controls over graphics. Since COD5 looks good on the Wii I think a good amount of people might pick it up.
It amazes me that no matter how much data comes out people still go on about how third party games don't sell on Wii. Third party games sell well enough outside of the top 10-20 that there are more third party million sellers than first party.
GitarooMan said:
Raving Rabbids is now a known IP and a solid seller, 1 sold past 1 million and 2 sold almost 600k if I remember by Jan 08
Target is pushing the Wii and Shaun White pretty hard as well
So both of them have good shots at getting into the Top 20, to say otherwise is just ignoring past trends.
Of course with multiple platforms like Shaun White I could see the 360 one charting and the Wii and PS3 one not charting though.
Basileus777
Member
Aaron Strife said:
Tales of Symphonia 2? Not a chance in hell.
Basileus777 said:
Yeah not in November, if it had come in July then or a slow month possibly
The thing to look at is to see if it sells more than Tales of Vesparia which clocked in what 44k last month? the Wii and 360 has similar sized userbases and ToS had a decent Gamecube following so we will see how much of that moves over to get ToS2
Eteric Rice
Member
hydragonwarrior said:
One of Mirror's Edge's sacrifices may have actually been more game time. From what I've heard, it's like 6 hours long.
6 hours long + $59.99 = Do not want <spoiler>until price drop</spoiler>
So much money goes into HD textures and whatnot that could go into adding more to the game.
Azelover
Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
Cromat said:
It's gonna be the Wii2 which will benefit from that.
Along the way the analysts have been predicting against the Wii, so this investment trend of a short term investment on the Wii you'll still see for a while. When it comes the time to shift generations, and I don't mean the WiiHD but the next Nintendo system, the analysts and developers will most likely align with Nintendo out of having won the previous generation consistently, that's what is really gonna change the output.
What you're seeing now is careful investment, the sentiment is still not totally consistent behind the market longevity of the Wii, it's probably gonna take the whole generation for that to shift.
Quoted from an article about holiday blu-ray sale prospects: http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/2008-11-14-blu-ray-hollywood_N.htm
Time for a reality check?
Time for a reality check?
Psychotext
Member
Assuming it does similar numbers to what the 360 did last November - March (It's tracking behind the 360 in the US, but it'll do for an example) then it'll do around 2.75 million in that period.Piper Az said:
Private Hoffman
Banned
gregor7777 said:
Thats actually better than I expected for such a low number of days for tracking.
I think PGR4 sold like 34k during its first NPD and probably had better reviews than MotorStorm 2.
SuperDowns
Banned
I was hoping Fallout 3 and Dead Space would do better than that, I hope they pick up during the holiday rush and don't get swept under the game by the hordes of good games. Good games deserve to make good money.
Private Hoffman
Banned
titiklabingapat said:
LittleBigPlanet doesn't live or die by everyone being able to create levels easily.
There will never be a user created system that is both easy to make levels, and easy to make DIVERSE and COMPLEX levels that people will come back to.
LBP will do just find with a small minority of hardcore level designers that create amazing things that the casuals of the world (that dont care about creating) can play.
Conflict NZ
Member
Piper Az said:
Remember when they were going to sell 17 million to users by March 08? They've only just hit 16.5 now.
I hope that is the case because it really deserves to do well. The game is fuck-awesome and I can never, ever go back to dual analog for FPS or TPS. Nailing people with the M1 from across the map without a scope is Godly.
I just hope that the Wii gets CoD6 as IW is making it.
Cromat said:
What a bunch of bull. Please, Look at god of War, Snake Eater, etc etc. PS2 games that had extremely pleasing gameplay, visuals and audio. Wii is more powerful than PS2. Not every game has to have complex physics or animations to be enjoyable. GTAIV is a perfect example of that. There is no reason why developers can't make a competent envelope pushing (compared to Wii games) game. Just look at High Voltage.
dammitmattt
Banned
Gaborn said:
Don't forget us Wii owners!
Bizzyb said:
People also made really great NES games back in the day but you don't see many of them doing it now (except Capcom). God of War and co. came out when the PS2 was contemporary technology, not old technology (processing-wise) like the Wii.
A game like Gran Turismo 4 is very possible on Wii. Do you think we will ever see a game like Gran Turismo on the Wii? No. Because if you as a developer are going to make a car simulator, you're going to want it to have the most content, the best graphics/sound/physics/online and so on. That means that the realistic racing genre is pretty much non-existent on the Wii. This is the most extreme example, but this is also very true for genres like action, FPS and RPG. Most developers don't want to put their top games on the Wii (at least not exclusively) because they feel they would be worse - even at the cost of sales.
dammitmattt
Banned
Private Hoffman said:
Why are you comparing Motorstorm 2 to PGR4? Because Shane did? They have very little in common. I think you're just picking the one big failure because it makes MS2 look better instead of comparing it to more similar games (DiRT & Pure) or more successful arcade racing games (Burnout Paradise, PGR3, NFS, GRID).
Or hell, why not compare it to Motorstorm, which sold 199k in the first month. It's got to be a disappointment that the sequel, which is apparently better in every possible way, sold about 1/3 as many copies during the first month to a MUCH larger userbase.
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
Scrubking said:
I would expect that multi-platform owners buy the PS3 or 360 version of the game instead of the Wii one because of the better online system and better graphics, and the Wii-only owners, in their majority non-hardcore gamers will buy the game in small quantities.
I expect the Wii version of the game to sell considerably worse than the HD counterparts.
I think that comparing a multiplatform hardcore franchise through the 3 consoles is a disadvantage for Wii numbers for that reason, and the only comparable 3rd party multiplatform releases we should compare to see the difference of 3rd party success are games that have no special advantage on any platform and are released at the same time (i.e. Guitar Hero is a good comparison, Rock Band 2 is not, COD5 is not, etc).
dammitmattt
Banned
SuperDowns said:
Fallout 3 shipped 4.7 million units worldwide and Dead Space will probably end up near the 1.5-2 million range worldwide, which are really good numbers for a resurrected and new IP, respectively.
gregor7777
Banned
Private Hoffman said:
What do Motorstorm and PGR4 have to do with each other?
It's shit sales for both.
Are you actually trying to say that if I asked you two months ago if Motorstorm sold better than PGR4 than it would be better than expected?
Horseshit, Hans. Horseshit.
dammitmattt
Banned
gregor7777 said:
Yeah, that was a terrible attempt at spin.
Cromat said:
Its also definitly not the case that devs want to work on HD platforms just to realize their vision, they just don't know how to make good Wii games. Its very easy to get high scores on HD platforms. Just make good graphics, constant framerate, a good story and copy and paste gameplay elements from other succesfull games. Also, because of the high risks involved in HD gaming, devs are not taking any chances. The problem with that approach is that people will either get bored, turned off by the complexity or price fo the game. Therefor, a lot of western companies are either making losses or have lower profits. Its obvious that the model for making HD games is not sustaineble for a lot of companies.
Private Hoffman said:
38k in its second month, PGR4 was released with 5 days left in the september 07 reporting period and we never got those numbers. It reached gold status in the UK (200k) last may so even if the game underperformed i dont think it bombed that hard as people think.
ViperVisor
Member
Come On...
Developers being like Walt Disney making Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs and being involved in every aspect trying to make a masterpiece is ridiculous.
How many head devs are beyond the surface of the graphics, sound or physics elements used? None I hope. They have better things to worry about that.
Gaming has become more of a compromise to devs over time, not less.
Developers being like Walt Disney making Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs and being involved in every aspect trying to make a masterpiece is ridiculous.
How many head devs are beyond the surface of the graphics, sound or physics elements used? None I hope. They have better things to worry about that.
Gaming has become more of a compromise to devs over time, not less.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Spiegel said:
I have all 4 games in questiontoo, lol. Favorite genre and all.
manueldelalas said:
Rock Band 2 will be a similar comparison when the Wii one comes out, people here forget that crappy watered down Wii version of Rock Band 1 got past 650-700k copies in 3 months (the PS3 one only got to around 1.0-1.5 million in 1 year)
Rock Band 2 on the PS3 charted in the Top 20 so come Dec or Jan I expect the Wii one to chart a bit higher or even in the Top 10 depending on what is released during that time frame (there are rumors RB2 is being delayed till the 1st week of Jan on Wii)
But I think you are correct in your COD thinking, though it should be noted that COD3 sold more on Wii then it did PS3
It was already answered, but here is the thread.TJ Spyke said:
Philanthropist
Banned
Spiegel said:
Way too early to judge MS2 / MSPR sales. It hasn't even been out for a whole month yet and most of its sales will be originated in Europe. Also, it was released just a week ago in Europe, and not even everywhere.
ksamedi said:
First of all, making good graphics, constant framerate and good story isn't easy at all. Secondly, not all next-gen are 'copy and paste' - and even then, making a fine-tuned game based on old ideas isn't very easy to do. For example Dead Space is a game that doesn't really do many new things and takes a lot of inspirations from different games. But it performs great - great setting, atmosphere, story, graphics, sound, design and controls. It simply works. Not every game should be earth-shattering. Nintendo's own games, with the exception of the 'Wii X' games, have all been pretty traditional, some of them are actually insultingly backward (Animal Crossing).
I also used to think that the Wii would simply get high-quality games in every genre by every developer like the PS2, simply because of it's success. But now I understand that the Wii doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's directly compared to the next-gen systems, if not in the eyes of consumers then in the eyes of developers. And most developers believe that their games would be better on the next-gen systems.
dammitmattt
Banned
ksamedi said:
Do you even play games on the HD platforms or read reviews for these games? Good games tend to get good reviews no matter what the platform. Give us some examples that fit your criteria above. I'm particularly interested in what games you think have good stories since I've played a ton of HD games have seen very few good stories.
Also, there are very few games left that don't have "safe" approaches with "copy and paste" gameplay, including most of the top Wii games like Zelda, Mario, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, etc.
I've had just as many "new" experiences on the HD platforms this gen as I have had on the Wii.
At times i feel if the developers had a choice between a P45 or developing for the wii they would choose the P45.
Its the case of refusing to admit the Wii exist that annoys many of wii owners. If Wii was 3rd place i would understand but come on they are the market leaders!
It would be interesting to see what happens when the Wii releases its next console because its a question whether many developers will be left when that time comes.
Developing costs are rising and if you have a few under performers here and there then dont expect the bankers or publishers willing to keep your company a float.
Its the case of refusing to admit the Wii exist that annoys many of wii owners. If Wii was 3rd place i would understand but come on they are the market leaders!
It would be interesting to see what happens when the Wii releases its next console because its a question whether many developers will be left when that time comes.
Developing costs are rising and if you have a few under performers here and there then dont expect the bankers or publishers willing to keep your company a float.
Opus Angelorum
Member
I suggest that anyone trying to defend Motorstorm 2 sales should look in the Media Create thread.
dammitmattt said:
I own all 3 consoles with a lot of games for all of them. I don't exactly understand of what you mean by examples but in my opinion there are a lot of HD games that have scored high just because they look good and are technically wel crafted while they incorperate old gameplay mechanics. Some of these even go backward in terms of gameplay like GTA 4. I never said that Nintendo is not guilty of this. Mario Galaxy is probably the most overrated game here but so is GTA 4, Fall Out 3 or Halo 3 and a lot of others.
Western devs have invested a lot of money in game technology while they forget that games are for entertainment purposes. Good physics and graphics can be entertaining for the player but new gameplay ideas have a much bigger impact (See Wii line games)
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
i dunno, i called it prior to LBP's launch that i don't think the casual market are anywhere near as interested in LBP as the hardcore would have us believe.
I think the hardcore will make levels for the hardcore and that'll be that - i guess next months sales will tell us one way or another, but i'd have thought we'd have seen a big rise in PS3 sales if the casuals were coming on board and that simply hasn't happened.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
ksamedi said:
I really wish gaming could return to this magical time, when all games were 25 hour long, endlessly replayable totally innovative masterpieces with no glitches or slowdown (hint: it never existed).
Your view of what makes a 'good' HD game is ridiculous by the way, not to mention confusing. If all these devs simply make overrated shiny pieces of shit, why do you want their games on Wii? A console which is (and has been opportunistically pointed out repeatedly in this topic) more expensive than the baseline 360 despite having massively inferior versions of multiplatform games. Because you feel that you're entitled by picking the winning horse? Or because you want to join in on one of the usual GAF bitter tears topics?
Or is it simply that you're more in love with your console than the games themselves?
Being on Wii isn't going to magically make Bioshock, or GTA, or Devil May Cry, or Final Fantasy - or any one of the dozens of HD exclusives you've convinced yourself you don't want or need - any more fun, or make them a better experience.
The casual Wii fan, the people keeping Wii Fit and Wii Play at the top of the charts, I can't blame them for their indifference. These games aren't for them. The self-righteous Nintendo horde though, who hope against hope that every great game that's not on a Nintendo console flops so it'll be like the NES days all over again - you guys are a sad lot.
And as long as there is a potential to have a breakout on the HD side, there are plenty of publishers willing to let you wallow in your game-starved bitterness.
Private Hoffman
Banned
DCharlie said:
We'll see.
Guitar Hero's popularity grew due to word of mouth. It wasn't instantly popular either.
I'm not sure if next month's sales will tell us one way or the other. LBP is a game that will likely see a lot of support from Media Molecule, and hardcore user levels that amaze may end up tipping some people over the edge in terms of buying the title if they see more of what the community does in an online article or something. It's certainly a title that could be a slow burner. But just how much of a burn, we'll have to end up seeing.
My hope is that the game carries due to word of mouth just like Uncharted did. Uncharted didn't do all that well when it released last November (~100k or so?) but in December it ended up selling 200k or so. I'd like to see LBP sell 500k in the US by the end of the year. For the type of game it is, the audience, and the price of the PS3, that would be really great US sales.
The main thing going against it is the platform's typical audience and the cost. LBP would be huge on the Wii.