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Official RAW 4/4/05 Thread
- Thread starter GaimeGuy
- Start date
- Status
Outcast2004
Banned
Time for Orton to be the sacrificial squash for the almighty DAVE.
Outcast2004
Banned
GaimeGuy said:
Not likely... Ortons going away for shoulder surgery... then PROBABLY reporting to Smackdown to "finish" the feud with Taker.
The Faceless Master
Member
i'm glad the crowd is giving batista the recognition he deserves :lol :lol :lol
Outcast2004
Banned
Enjoy surgery Orton.. been nice knowing you on RAW. Say hi to the B-show, Smackdown for us. you wont be missed.
Okay...just when I'm being drawn back into wrestling I realize I'm getting too old, or something, because that was one of the shittiest RAWs ever.
Triple Threat Match? Really good. Benoit/Edge? Alright. Batista/Orton? Inoffensive.
What did all of that MEAN? SHIT. It meant shit.
This show was literally the most meaningless RAW in history. Seriously, this show didn't even need to happen, that is how damn terrible it was. Like, you could have skipped this show, and nothing would be different for you next week. I mean, you can only go so far throwing around good wrestlers in shitty angles or a complete lack of angles.
Going into WM, Raw had two feuds; This itself is a problem. And one, Trish/Christy, doesn't really count, so there was really only one. It was Triple H/Batista. The Ladder match? Pure contrivance. I'm not counting the interbrand matches, so there was one whole feud on RAW.
WrestleMania is a time to end feuds and start anew; it signals the beginning of new angles to head into a fresh start. What do we get?
- A meaningless, throwaway Triple Threat Match that set up no feuds, had no real purpose, and while I agree that Benjamin needs the push, he also needs a feud.
- A meaningless, throwaway Singles Match where Benoit's win does absolutely nothing for him. Only good thing? Edge's new Briefcase angle. If he carries it to the ring all the time, great.
- A match between Orton and Batista that...well...what was the point of that? It was short, meaningless (A running theme) and just blew.
- A replay of the Hogan angle from Wrestlemania, to milk more out of Hulkamania.
- An Austin segment that, while entertaining, only put a guy who can no longer wrestle and will disappear eventually over two people who were thrown together as a tag team because the WWE hasn't even bothered to create a worthwhile tag division.
- A Women's "Match" that basically involved Trish Stratus kicking the shit out of Christy and Lita. Did I like this development as purely Christy getting kicked in the head and Lita's knee breaking? Yes. Did it do ANYTHING for the storylines? No.
- Mohammed Hassan beating up Shawn Michaels...no Jannety save, no real point...they had a match like 1-2 weeks ago, why did they do this again? Is it going to lead into a big match considering Michaels is "injured". Is there a payoff there?
In other words, RAW is in a shithole. I mean, where does it go from here? HHH/Batista 2 is NOT a development, it's just lazy ass booking. Austin is NOT the proper thing to be putting out there when he won't be sticking around.
Vince says that Orton and Batista are the future. That's swell and all, but just redoing the feuds in "Revenge" driven gimmick matches is pure, unadulterated bullshit. Going into WrestleMania, there was no logical build to many of the matches. And now? Nothing has changed. WrestleMania used to start something; now a merely good PPV is going to be further tarnished by it meaning nothing in the big picture.
Triple Threat Match? Really good. Benoit/Edge? Alright. Batista/Orton? Inoffensive.
What did all of that MEAN? SHIT. It meant shit.
This show was literally the most meaningless RAW in history. Seriously, this show didn't even need to happen, that is how damn terrible it was. Like, you could have skipped this show, and nothing would be different for you next week. I mean, you can only go so far throwing around good wrestlers in shitty angles or a complete lack of angles.
Going into WM, Raw had two feuds; This itself is a problem. And one, Trish/Christy, doesn't really count, so there was really only one. It was Triple H/Batista. The Ladder match? Pure contrivance. I'm not counting the interbrand matches, so there was one whole feud on RAW.
WrestleMania is a time to end feuds and start anew; it signals the beginning of new angles to head into a fresh start. What do we get?
- A meaningless, throwaway Triple Threat Match that set up no feuds, had no real purpose, and while I agree that Benjamin needs the push, he also needs a feud.
- A meaningless, throwaway Singles Match where Benoit's win does absolutely nothing for him. Only good thing? Edge's new Briefcase angle. If he carries it to the ring all the time, great.
- A match between Orton and Batista that...well...what was the point of that? It was short, meaningless (A running theme) and just blew.
- A replay of the Hogan angle from Wrestlemania, to milk more out of Hulkamania.
- An Austin segment that, while entertaining, only put a guy who can no longer wrestle and will disappear eventually over two people who were thrown together as a tag team because the WWE hasn't even bothered to create a worthwhile tag division.
- A Women's "Match" that basically involved Trish Stratus kicking the shit out of Christy and Lita. Did I like this development as purely Christy getting kicked in the head and Lita's knee breaking? Yes. Did it do ANYTHING for the storylines? No.
- Mohammed Hassan beating up Shawn Michaels...no Jannety save, no real point...they had a match like 1-2 weeks ago, why did they do this again? Is it going to lead into a big match considering Michaels is "injured". Is there a payoff there?
In other words, RAW is in a shithole. I mean, where does it go from here? HHH/Batista 2 is NOT a development, it's just lazy ass booking. Austin is NOT the proper thing to be putting out there when he won't be sticking around.
Vince says that Orton and Batista are the future. That's swell and all, but just redoing the feuds in "Revenge" driven gimmick matches is pure, unadulterated bullshit. Going into WrestleMania, there was no logical build to many of the matches. And now? Nothing has changed. WrestleMania used to start something; now a merely good PPV is going to be further tarnished by it meaning nothing in the big picture.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I'm with that 100%. A boring, meaningless show. I don't care about anyone on this show anymore. Benoit, Christian, Benjamin and Trish are all being wasted so much.
why does the show have to go somewhere story wise? Cant they just have good matches and be entertaining? Im pretty sure they accomplished that.. plus, this show wasnt really supposed to build towards anything just yet (maybe plant the seeds) its the show after Wrestlemania, its supposed to have fallout/reaction to what happened at Mania and they had alot of that.
StoOgE said:
Yes, it has to go somewhere story wise. There was no fallout at all...Batista and HHH switched roles, Orton whined some more, and Trish and Christy had a "rematch". Other than people selling injuries, there was no logical fallout in the least.
Even if you consider that fallout, it was sucktacular fallout. Nothing happened at all; Batista and HHH had a staredown. Orton left with an injury. None of the matches were anything special, really, and while they were good TV matches I don't think that was enough. It was nothing but stale, stale and more stale from what was seen before Mania.
Fallout doesn't have to be rematches and pointless title defences. Fallout can lead into, you know, feuds, with storylines and direction. There was NONE of that in this show.
Well, the Orton injury had to happen.. Do it at the hands of Batista and it could set up something down the road feud wise (I dont think he is going to Smackdown).
HBK/Hassan was an awesome promo that had to do with HBK tapping out, proving that he was a failure.
Plus, there werent alot of matches at WM, so there isnt going to be a whole lot to recap. HHH/Batista is just a rematch. HBK is being set up to job to Hassan. Orton is off to have surgery. Edge has his briefcase thing, but still cant beat his old tag team partner.. expect a program with those two for Backlash before he uses his contract to challenge Batista. Shelton/HBK/Christian were fairly misused, that much I'll admit. They didnt know what to do with them at WM they dont know what to do with them now.
Shelton should have won the ladder match and held onto the contract.. Benoit and Y2J should form a tag team and E&C should reuinite, throw in the reunited Rockers in the next month or so and the tag division kicks ass again (hell, Kane and mattitude could form a tag team/love triangle which could be funny as hell now that they are both faces.. Matt could refuse the tag to let Kane get beat up but still come in and make the save to win matches, etc.)... Kane can go feud with Mattitude when he returns. But they screwed all that up badly.
HBK/Hassan was an awesome promo that had to do with HBK tapping out, proving that he was a failure.
Plus, there werent alot of matches at WM, so there isnt going to be a whole lot to recap. HHH/Batista is just a rematch. HBK is being set up to job to Hassan. Orton is off to have surgery. Edge has his briefcase thing, but still cant beat his old tag team partner.. expect a program with those two for Backlash before he uses his contract to challenge Batista. Shelton/HBK/Christian were fairly misused, that much I'll admit. They didnt know what to do with them at WM they dont know what to do with them now.
Shelton should have won the ladder match and held onto the contract.. Benoit and Y2J should form a tag team and E&C should reuinite, throw in the reunited Rockers in the next month or so and the tag division kicks ass again (hell, Kane and mattitude could form a tag team/love triangle which could be funny as hell now that they are both faces.. Matt could refuse the tag to let Kane get beat up but still come in and make the save to win matches, etc.)... Kane can go feud with Mattitude when he returns. But they screwed all that up badly.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Because that's what all TV shows are supposed to do. I'm not going to watch 24 if they just have guys sitting around and eating and discussing what happened the week before.StoOgE said:
All three matches were good. All three matches built up nothing. Having good, entertaining matches is what the PPV is supposed to do. The TV shows are supposed to get me hyped up and excited for new feuds and the future. That didn't happen.
Where? HBK/Hassan and that's it, and that was already going on before Wrestlemania. Everything else was just a waste of time. Nothing has changed since Wrestlemania, nothing is improving, nothing is interesting.
Wow, there's some good ideas there...it's a pity none of it, you know, happened.
Right now, they're booking themselves into a hole.
They've got:
Jericho
Benoit
Edge
Christian
Benjamin
They have FIVE guys and ONE Midcard title for them to feud over. Benjamin holds it and...nothing. There's no logical feud, and nobody has actually started a feud over WANTING to win the IC Titles in like months. The titles, now, are just boring ass legitimizing tools that don't even matter. The World Championship remains a viable option, simply because of its main event status. But when the IC Title isn't even DEFENDED at WrestleMania, they have a serious problem. And this episode of Raw? Did nothing to deal with this.
I'm not a fan of throwing singles wrestlers into tag teams for the simple purpose of doing something with them. I mean, sure, it would create a tag team division...but at the expense of the midcard. I think they're clearly leading towards Daivari/Hassan vs. Rockers at Backlash. It's the only place they're going other than the lame rematch.
Okay, so where does that leave the, you know, Tag Team Titles? Who are currently sitting on who, William Regal and Tajiri? Do you know who wasn't even on RAW? The Tag Team Champions. They have these titles, they should be using them. Hell, I think they should move the Tag Titles onto Hassan and Daivari; it would allow for the Rockers to do a run with the tag titles, allowing them to actually elevate the titles. They can be a tag team that can defend the titles, feud with new up and coming tag teams (Not two people thrown together for the sake of being thrown together).
I think I want a return to programs with titles involved and with actual motivation behind the feud. I want a feud that ends in an emotion-filled matchup where you actually care who wins not do to predetermined biases, but because the feud was that damn good.
An example: (This is a situation in which free agency has been initiated for various superstars, allowing for some brand switching)
The Rockers are the World Tag Team Champions. IC Champion Shelton Benjamin, as a measure of respect for saving them from attack by Hassan and Daivari (Teasing Daivari/Benjamin) has been offered a shot at the Tag Title for himself and a partner. Benjamin accepts, saying he has someone in mind, and walks into Bischoff's office.
Later that night, Benjamin comes out as the Rockers wait in the ring for his partner. He reveals that the Rockers wear the belts that hold a claim he contends...because there is only one World's Greatest Tag Team. Charlie Haas, newly signed to RAW, emerges.
A hot tag match ensues; all four guys bring their "A" game and it's a closely contested matchup. As it winds to a close, Daivari and Hassan make their way out to the ring. They are in the midst of feuding with the Rockers, at this point, so this makes sense. Daivari jumps up onto the ring apron to try to interfere as Michaels is attacking Haas. Haas manages to gain a bit of momentum, but Benjamin goes outside and takes out Daivari and Hassan. In the meantime, Haas goes for the desperate tag, as he's been in awhile...and no Shelton. He looks around, sees him attacking Hassan, and then turns around into a Superkick and the pin.
Motivations for the Feud
- Haas is pissed that Benjamin has been more successful than he has after their split.
- Haas is bitter that Benjamin was focused on Hassan instead of their match.
Instant feud with two good wrestlers, which could then lead to Hassan moving into the IC Title picture.
That is the kind of stuff I want to see...with a build based on background, and a feud where the status of being a champion comes into play, even if just in jealousy.
Right now, they're booking themselves into a hole.
They've got:
Jericho
Benoit
Edge
Christian
Benjamin
They have FIVE guys and ONE Midcard title for them to feud over. Benjamin holds it and...nothing. There's no logical feud, and nobody has actually started a feud over WANTING to win the IC Titles in like months. The titles, now, are just boring ass legitimizing tools that don't even matter. The World Championship remains a viable option, simply because of its main event status. But when the IC Title isn't even DEFENDED at WrestleMania, they have a serious problem. And this episode of Raw? Did nothing to deal with this.
I'm not a fan of throwing singles wrestlers into tag teams for the simple purpose of doing something with them. I mean, sure, it would create a tag team division...but at the expense of the midcard. I think they're clearly leading towards Daivari/Hassan vs. Rockers at Backlash. It's the only place they're going other than the lame rematch.
Okay, so where does that leave the, you know, Tag Team Titles? Who are currently sitting on who, William Regal and Tajiri? Do you know who wasn't even on RAW? The Tag Team Champions. They have these titles, they should be using them. Hell, I think they should move the Tag Titles onto Hassan and Daivari; it would allow for the Rockers to do a run with the tag titles, allowing them to actually elevate the titles. They can be a tag team that can defend the titles, feud with new up and coming tag teams (Not two people thrown together for the sake of being thrown together).
I think I want a return to programs with titles involved and with actual motivation behind the feud. I want a feud that ends in an emotion-filled matchup where you actually care who wins not do to predetermined biases, but because the feud was that damn good.
An example: (This is a situation in which free agency has been initiated for various superstars, allowing for some brand switching)
The Rockers are the World Tag Team Champions. IC Champion Shelton Benjamin, as a measure of respect for saving them from attack by Hassan and Daivari (Teasing Daivari/Benjamin) has been offered a shot at the Tag Title for himself and a partner. Benjamin accepts, saying he has someone in mind, and walks into Bischoff's office.
Later that night, Benjamin comes out as the Rockers wait in the ring for his partner. He reveals that the Rockers wear the belts that hold a claim he contends...because there is only one World's Greatest Tag Team. Charlie Haas, newly signed to RAW, emerges.
A hot tag match ensues; all four guys bring their "A" game and it's a closely contested matchup. As it winds to a close, Daivari and Hassan make their way out to the ring. They are in the midst of feuding with the Rockers, at this point, so this makes sense. Daivari jumps up onto the ring apron to try to interfere as Michaels is attacking Haas. Haas manages to gain a bit of momentum, but Benjamin goes outside and takes out Daivari and Hassan. In the meantime, Haas goes for the desperate tag, as he's been in awhile...and no Shelton. He looks around, sees him attacking Hassan, and then turns around into a Superkick and the pin.
Motivations for the Feud
- Haas is pissed that Benjamin has been more successful than he has after their split.
- Haas is bitter that Benjamin was focused on Hassan instead of their match.
Instant feud with two good wrestlers, which could then lead to Hassan moving into the IC Title picture.
That is the kind of stuff I want to see...with a build based on background, and a feud where the status of being a champion comes into play, even if just in jealousy.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
But if they don that people might see how much better Haas is than Shelton. As much as I love shelton his mic skills are shit and he lacks the ability to convey emotion. Two things Charlie does much better. But its the damn WWE's fault. These guys should still be a tag team for another year or two.
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