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[Opiate]

The Wii sports craze is over now, and people are buying as many Wii's as ever. The fact that Wii sports was packaged with the Wii itself makes it impossible to know how Wii sports actually influenced the console. But even if every Wii ever sold was because of Wii sports (and it probably is a very high number) that would have no bearing on my point.

Hardware sales on the Wii are running completely independantly of software releases. Meanwhile, a console with an obviously better lineup is being outsold twofold. Obviously every console need a "hook", and for the Wii Wii sports was that hook (for the PS2 it was being an affordable DVD player), but beyond that theres no reason to think the release of any game is going to significantly influence hardware sales from that point.

It is not an obviously better lineup. It is a better lineup to you.

It also is a better lineup to me. But most likely, if I were a young girl, young boy, woman, or one of the elderly, I would think the Wii has the better line up by light years.

You are trying to strong arm people in to agreeing with you. What is your evidence that the 360 lineup is better? "Obviously it is," you say.

It's a puerile tactic from a sophomoric bully. By the raw power of condescension, you will force people to acknowledge that the 360 line up is better. Again, it appears I approve of your tastes, but I so strongly object to your methods that I feel compelled to object.

 

[donny2112]

Uhhh, I was under the impression that there was a very good chance it might not even chart.

Bad impression.

 

[Gaborn]

Next Month's NPD will be EPIC.

If LBP does bad (god no) or if PS3 does bad. Or if Wii Music beats LBP or Fable 2

I honestly think that's virtually a given, especially LBP. Wii series games universally have a bigger "name" with a bigger audience, and that's ignoring that the audience is already somewhat largely built in for the console. I think Fable 2 has a shot, only because it's more of a name game, but it's going to have a lot of competition that month from other hardcore games. I think the pool of potential buyers for Wii Music is larger and with fewer names competing for their audiences attention.

In the case of LBP... I just don't see it. People that own the console (the hardcore gamers) will probably buy it, but I don't necessarily see it bringing in NEW users as much, I hear more from hardcore gamers how much they want it than from casuals. It's a great idea but inherently going to be a niche title, with the chance for having legs. It's almost... the "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" of games. It should probably start out respectably... but it MAY catch fire like MBFGW did and end up doing massively well. Will it? I dunno, but I don't see it beating a name title like Wii Music.

 

[donny2112]

But most likely, if I were a young girl, young boy, woman, or one of the elderly, I would think the Wii has the better line up by light years.

And that is why I'll be sticking with the core/non-core descriptors. :lol

 

[overthehill99]

Uhhh, I was under the impression that there was a very good chance it might not even chart. I'm assuming you are counting on Sony releasing numbers?

If Too Human and SCIV can chart, then LBP will deffinatly chart.


I have no doubt.

 

[Opiate]

And that is why I'll be sticking with the core/non-core descriptors. :lol

I don't follow?

 

[markatisu]

Wow so Worldwide the Wii will have outsold the PS3 and 360 combined by Christmas if things stay the same (adding the bulk of what it does in JP and adding to that with US gains)

 

[Lostconfused]

If Too Human and SCIV can chart, then LBP will deffinatly chart.


I have no doubt.

Whoa whoa whoa. Too Human and SCIV in the same sentence, does not compute.

 

[HallucinatingElvis]

Really. Go back and read some older NPD threads, pre-gen prediction or PS3 pre-launch hype threads. I remember some epic list wars in those threads, with some Sony fans at various times listing things like:

- MGS4
- FFXIII
- KHIII
- VF5
- Lair
- Assassin's Creed
- Heavenly Sword
- Killzone 2
- Grand Turismo
- GTAIV
- Naughty Dog Game (Uncharted)
- FFVII remake
- Home

Yes, at one point they were actually listing Home as a game. As each of these games started getting released and bombing, going multiplatform or doing nothing for the PS3's hardware sales, Sony fanboys spun the results and moved on to anticipation of the next "saviour".

This time around, it's LBP with its "casual appeal", but they're a lot less vocal about it so as not to be embarrassed if it happens again. They have, however, appeared to have lost hope in Home's ability to "turn things around" as well as the possibility of an FFVII remake this generation.

oh this one makes me smirk, I likes him....I keeps him

 

[DMeisterJ]

Uhhh, I was under the impression that there was a very good chance it might not even chart. I'm assuming you are counting on Sony releasing numbers?

The number 10 game this month was only at 150k sold over the month. I'm positive that LBP could do more than that in two weeks. I'd be very surprised if it didn't chart.

I honestly think that's virtually a given, especially LBP. Wii series games universally have a bigger "name" with a bigger audience, and that's ignoring that the audience is already somewhat largely built in for the console. I think Fable 2 has a shot, only because it's more of a name game, but it's going to have a lot of competition that month from other hardcore games. I think the pool of potential buyers for Wii Music is larger and with fewer names competing for their audiences attention.

In the case of LBP... I just don't see it. People that own the console (the hardcore gamers) will probably buy it, but I don't necessarily see it bringing in NEW users as much, I hear more from hardcore gamers how much they want it than from casuals. It's a great idea but inherently going to be a niche title, with the chance for having legs.

I just don't know if LBP will chart higher than LBP or Fable 2 in the first month. I'm sure the legs will be astounding, but still...

LBP is iffy to me. It may or may not chart above Wii Music. It really depends, as they're both unique games in their own rights. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[SIP YEK NOD]

DAMN, i was out working. 7 damn pages **gets to reading**

 

[donny2112]

I don't follow?

You just pigeon-holed Wii software buyers into kids, old folks, or women. I read your statement earlier and thought that was what your planned verbiage change would sound like, and it does.

Wow so Worldwide the Wii will have outsold the PS3 and 360 combined by Christmas if things stay the same (adding the bulk of what it does in JP and adding to that with US gains)

Last year, I estimate that PS360 outsold Wii worldwide by about a million in Oct-Dec. Shortages held it back a lot, and they could do so again this year.

 

[GameGamer]

I'm wondering if blu-ray is really going to make it in time to beat streaming/downloads.

Studios are watching the holidays and weak ps3 sales may affect releases.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

I got banned for that :lol

But like I said in that thread, it was a legit question about the semantics of the bundle, everyone just decided to attack me on it.

You going to start a new thread about the Headset and Socom... or is it Socom with the Headset?

Next Month's NPD will be EPIC.

If LBP does bad (god no) or if PS3 does bad. Or if Wii Music beats LBP or Fable 2

Well, don't forget that LBP launches at the end of the month so you'll have the "bu... bu... but it was only on sale for a few days" crowd. November will be the big one for LBP but then it more then likely get drowned out by games like R2, COD5, Gears 2, and all the Guitar Heroes.

 

[Zombie James]

I'm wondering if blu-ray is really going to make it in time to beat streaming/downloads.

Both serve different needs (or wants, whatever) and both can co-exist.

 

[Zombie James]

You going to start a new thread about the Headset and Socom... or is it Socom with the Headset?

No, i'd rather not get banned again over a bundle, thanks

 

[Kagari]

I'm wondering if blu-ray is really going to make it in time to beat streaming/downloads.

Studios are watching the holidays and weak ps3 sales may affect releases.

You do realize that $150 players are coming as soon as Black Friday... right?

 

[Gaborn]

The number 10 game this month was only at 150k sold over the month. I'm positive that LBP could do more than that in two weeks. I'd be very surprised if it didn't chart.



I just don't know if LBP will chart higher than LBP or Fable 2 in the first month. I'm sure the legs will be astounding, but still...

LBP is iffy to me. It may or may not chart above Wii Music. It really depends, as they're both unique games in their own rights. We'll just have to wait and see.

I'm... assuming the first LBP here was Wii Music (since LBP and Fable 2 are both HD and it would make sense tro group them together). Obviously I believe it's legs will be amazing, and having seen the JC Rodrigo video I'm a TOTAL believer it'll be a massive hit and deserve every sale, but I can agree the first month is trickier. With all the excitement for it there's been a lot of doubt and speculation too. I still think though the Wii name has the potential to sell a million copies without effort. The biggest thing helping it though is there's no REQUIRED attachment or accessory (optional balance board support) for it so it's a lot easier to produce in huge quantities.

 

[Opiate]

You just pigeon-holed Wii software buyers into kids, old folks, or women. I read your statement earlier and thought that was what your planned verbiage change would sound like, and it does.

Isn't that "everyone but 16-30 year old males?" What other demographic does my terminology exclude? I might argue this is much more insulting to the 360 and PS3 than it is to the Wii. I would think that is simultaneously much more precise, while also avoiding the stigma that comes with "casual."

Surely it's less insulting to call the Wii a system that focuses on a broade range of demographics than it is to call it a "casual, kiddie" system? Surely it is a more substantive breakdown that isn't prone to the bickering over denotation that is inevitable in "core/casual" debates?

 

[kame-sennin]

The Wii sports craze is over now, and people are buying as many Wii's as ever.

Says who? More importantly, the fact that you view Wii Sports through the lens of a craze or fad that inevitably ends means you have difficulty observing games like Wii Play, Wii Fit, Mario Kart Wii, and Link's Crossbow Training continuing the software trend set by Wii Sports.

The fact that Wii sports was packaged with the Wii itself makes it impossible to know how Wii sports actually influenced the console.

You are right on this point.

Hardware sales on the Wii are running completely independantly of software releases.

Nope.

Meanwhile, a console with an obviously better lineup is being outsold twofold.

Incorrect.

The problem with these two points is that they're subjective. Your definition of quality is not the same as the vast majority of consumers. You're also under the mistaken impression that only new software is relevant to new buyers. The long tale of most Wii software shows that the opposite is true. Wii owners and potential Wii owners will take their time buying software and are not turned off by old releases. Furthermore, they believe that the Wii has the superior library. If they didn't, they wouldn't buy the Wii and Wii software in such large numbers.

Obviously every console need a "hook", and for the Wii Wii sports was that hook (for the PS2 it was being an affordable DVD player), but beyond that theres no reason to think the release of any game is going to significantly influence hardware sales from that point.

While I don't think a losing console can be turned around at this stage of the game, moderately successful (PS1, DS) consoles can be ignited by the right software (FF, Nintendogs). And old hardware (GB) can find new life with the right title (Pokemon). Throughout the history of the industry, it has always been believed that software sells hardware. It is only now that the games believed to be console saviors - GTA, Halo, MGS - the games that drove hardware sales in the past, have failed to ignite their respective systems that people claim the theory is broken. Adding to this misconception is the confusing success of software that gaf hates, fueling the Wii. The reality is that trends change, consumers are fickle, and value is subjective. When all these things change at once, it's called a paradigm shift.

 

[TheHeretic]

It is not an obviously better lineup. It is a better lineup to you.

It also is a better lineup to me. But most likely, if I were a young girl, young boy, woman, or one of the elderly, I would think the Wii has the better line up by light years.

You are trying to strong arm people in to agreeing with you. What is your evidence that the 360 lineup is better? "Obviously it is," you say.

It's a puerile tactic from a sophomoric bully. By the raw power of condescension, you will force people to acknowledge that the 360 line up is better. Again, it appears I approve of your tastes, but I so strongly object to your methods that I feel compelled to object.

This is a video gaming forum, not soccor moms united. The Wii has some great games, but i'm calling a spade a spade. You can disagree, if you want objective proof aggregate scoring sites are happy to oblige.

 

[evilromero]

The PS2 sales continue to surprise me. And who on god's green earth doesn't own Wii Play now?

 

[Dragon]

Really. Go back and read some older NPD threads, pre-gen prediction or PS3 pre-launch hype threads. I remember some epic list wars in those threads, with some Sony fans at various times listing things like:

- MGS4 I thought it made a pretty big jump?
- FFXIII Not released
- KHIII Has any information about this game been revealed?
- VF5 Really? Pretty silly.
- Lair LOL
- Assassin's Creed Multi-platform, sold over 1 million copies as far as I know
- Heavenly Sword A disappointment surely, but a great game for me nonetheless
- Killzone 2 Not released
- Grand Turismo Never heard of it, I've heard of Gran Turismo though, which has a Prologue addition and GT5 which is probably going to be out by 2010
- GTAIV Sold lots of copies, mediocre game as far as I'm concerned
- Naughty Dog Game (Uncharted) Great game will play again
- FFVII remake I can always watch a documentary on schizophrenics if I want to play this game
- Home Isn't a game

My point in quoting and responding to each one of your games is I'm not sure why you're so hostile and vindictive about it. If people want to believe a certain thing, why does it impact you enough to start getting so agitated over it? I've enjoyed plenty of these games (personally you've forgotten a game like DMC4 which probably belongs above something like VF5 which is lolworthy in terms of sales).

This time around, it's LBP with its "casual appeal", but they're a lot less vocal about it so as not to be embarrassed if it happens again. They have, however, appeared to have lost hope in Home's ability to "turn things around" as well as the possibility of an FFVII remake this generation.

Don't fuck with LBP. I couldn't care less how you label it, nor do I care about hyping a game up and being 'embarrassed', sorry I had to use quotation marks because it makes me appear smarter, if the game is fucking good. I can't speak for the SDF, but I love my PS3, I love playing and enjoying games on it, along with my 360 and I don't see why you can't get off your pedestal and enjoy games too. But I forgot you're too busy keeping us in line, making sure we don't hype a game too much because we want a particular console to succeed so we get to play more games we're interested in. Sorry, next time I'll check in with you before getting excited about something.

 

[jay]

This is a video gaming forum, not soccor moms united. The Wii has some great games, but i'm calling a spade a spade. You can disagree, if you want objective proof aggregate scoring sites are happy to oblige.

When you pool enough subjective opinions they become objective.

 

[DMeisterJ]

I'm... assuming the first LBP here was Wii Music (since LBP and Fable 2 are both HD and it would make sense tro group them together). Obviously I believe it's legs will be amazing, and having seen the JC Rodrigo video I'm a TOTAL believer it'll be a massive hit and deserve every sale, but I can agree the first month is trickier. With all the excitement for it there's been a lot of doubt and speculation too. I still think though the Wii name has the potential to sell a million copies without effort. The biggest thing helping it though is there's no REQUIRED attachment or accessory (optional balance board support) for it so it's a lot easier to produce in huge quantities.

Yeah, the first LBP was "Wii Music"

And yes, the first month is just really iffy. :S

 

[Sean]

Rock Band 2 only sold 363,000? How does that fare for a first month Harmonix game.

Rock Band 1 first month (Nov) = 311,903 units
Rock Band 2 first month (Sep) = 363,000 units

Seems pretty good to me. Sold better in a slower month and without the bundles being out yet.

edit: Guitar Hero 3's first month (Oct) for comparison - 383,200 units.

 

[a Master Ninja]

My point in quoting and responding to each one of your games is I'm not sure why you're so hostile and vindictive about it. If people want to believe a certain thing, why does it impact you enough to start getting so agitated over it? I've enjoyed plenty of these games (personally you've forgotten a game like DMC4 which probably belongs above something like VF5 which is lolworthy in terms of sales).

Well, you make a valid...

Don't fuck with LBP. I couldn't care less how you label it, nor do I care about hyping a game up and being 'embarrassed', sorry I had to use quotation marks because it makes me appear smarter, if the game is fucking good. I can't speak for the SDF, but I love my PS3, I love playing and enjoying games on it, along with my 360 and I don't see why you can't get off your pedestal and enjoy games too. But I forgot you're too busy keeping us in line, making sure we don't hype a game too much because we want a particular console to succeed so we get to play more games we're interested in. Sorry, next time I'll check in with you before getting excited about something.

...nevermind.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

We might get more to talk about later if we get a top-10-by-platform. Otherwise... not really much to say, is there? :/

No I know, that's what I mean though.

I mean what is there to say really? Wii has had it in the bag for a long time now, and the PS3 will eventually overtake the 360 worldwide. It's kinda inevitable.

So I mean, aside from some to and fro here and there in the NPD (and MediaCreate in the last month), there's no real spice in it.

I was hoping maybe the 360 could really thump the PS3 or PS3 could make a huge resurgence and make things interesting you know?

 

[SIP YEK NOD]

Rock Band 1 first month (Nov) = 311,903 units
Rock Band 2 first month (Sep) = 363,000 units

Seems pretty good to me.

edit: Guitar Hero 3's first month (Oct) for comparison - 383,200 units.

not to mention there is no bundle yet, there is potential for the rock band 2 hardware bundle for 360 to show up in the october NPD as well.

 

[B-Rad Lascelle]

It's a given at this point that 360 will outsell PS3 for the year 2008 in North America.

But perhaps Sony's plan all along was to be even more units behind after three holiday seasons than when they launched.

Remember, PS3 is a 10-year plan. We're just about to hit the start of Year 3. I'm sure the plan has them no longer losing ground by this time next year, crushing the X360 in Year 4, crushing the Wii in Year 5 and then blazing a trail of glory while the competition flounders and fails to release any new technology.

I agree with you in terms of raw units. But I disagree in terms of momentum. If we were looking at 2007's YTD, then I'd agree, but 2008's YTD is a different, closer picture.

I know that Sony fans love to crow about how much better their system has performed in 2008 versus 2007... but you have to remember that last year's sales numbers were as low as they were due to the fact that the system was priced in the $499-599 price bracket. The drop to $399 was bound to make a significant difference regardless of anything else. The new pricepoint made it possible for MGS4 to move systems whereas it would have been impossible otherwise.

 

[donny2112]

Isn't that "everyone but 16-30 year old males?" What other demographic does my terminology exclude?

Which is why I don't think your terminology change is appropriate. The Wii isn't for everyone but 16-30 year old males. The Wii is for everyone.

I find core/non-core in relation to the games to be more descriptive (both types are on Wii, just to be clear), and mostly leave out trying to label the Wii's audience except for saying that the Wii has more mainstream appeal.

if you want objective proof aggregate scoring sites are happy to oblige.

How would aggregate scoring sites be objective proof? The most influential game in the last 30 years (short of maybe Super Mario Bros.) has an aggregate ranking of 77%. Obviously, the scoring sites have some deficiencies there.

 

[Igo]

Am I right in saying that the same people who like to discount the Wii software lineup are the same people who disregard Flash/Browser based PC games until they show up on consoles as 'new' and exciting downloadable games? If they don't factor into the fanboy argument trying to be made they're not relevant.

 

[TheHeretic]

The problem with these two points is that they're subjective. Your definition of quality is not the same as the vast majority of consumers. You're also under the mistaken impression that only new software is relevant to new buyers. The long tale of most Wii software shows that the opposite is true. Wii owners and potential Wii owners will take their time buying software and are not turned off by old releases. Furthermore, they believe that the Wii has the superior library. If they didn't, they wouldn't buy the Wii and Wii software in such large numbers.

The Wii is selling on its motion controls and popular media reception, not its games library. Furthermore the video gaming market in terms of sales is incredibly frontloaded. The Wii might do more to shake this trend because of the nature of its fanbase, but it still rings true for every console. The PC, perhaps not.

I don't believe they think the Wii has the superior library, because I don't think they are buying the Wii based on aggregate lists of games. They are buying the Wii because its the cool new device to own, any software sales thereafter are from walking in a store and picking out what appeals to them.

If you want to talk about the casual market you can't hold them to the same standards we use to decide which console to buy. Thats where your argument falls apart.

While I don't think a losing console can be turned around at this stage of the game, moderately successful (PS1, DS) consoles can be ignited by the right software (FF, Nintendogs). And old hardware (GB) can find new life with the right title (Pokemon). Throughout the history of the industry, it has always been believed that software sells hardware. It is only now that the games believed to be console saviors - GTA, Halo, MGS - the games that drove hardware sales in the past, have failed to ignite their respective systems that people claim the theory is broken. Adding to this misconception is the confusing success of software that gaf hates, fueling the Wii. The reality is that trends change, consumers are fickle, and value is subjective. When all these things change at once, it's called a paradigm shift.

The theory is broken if it can't be used to predict the future, period. A theory is completely worthless if it can only be used to justify events that have happened in the past. People believing that previously popular title like GT and MGS that sold very well on the PS2 would propell the PS3 was completely reasonable.

What happened was that people who had bought that console went out and bought those games, not the other way around. People buy consoles, and within that framework buy games. Thats my "theory" as to why consoles with unanimously better lineups (DC vs PS2, the early years) can fail. Theres much more the hardware sales than the devices software lineup.

Halo was the hook of the Xbox, DVD's were the hook of the PS2, the Wii Mote is the hook of the Wii. People think Wii Sports is selling Wiis because its a game, I disagree. I think Wii sports perfectly showcases the capabilites of the system, and that got people excited.

 

[Gaborn]

Yeah, the first LBP was "Wii Music"

And yes, the first month is just really iffy. :S

The first month is iffy, but I'd rather risk another installment in a successful "series" like the "Wii" games especially on a console with more than double the sales rather than on a console with only about 5.5 million sales with a new, though hyped franchise. The Wii has more of a margin of error because it has a larger userbase.

 

[Opiate]

This is a video gaming forum, not soccor moms united.

Again, this is an attempt to push your point through by sheer force of arrogance. We both agree that the 360 has a better line up for you and me. Your proof that the 360 lineup is better, apparently, is that our opinions matter more. If you don't care about "soccer moms" -- such a belittling term -- then don't come in sales threads. In a sales thread, a purchase of 1 video game console by a 60 year old woman is worth precisely and exactly as much as 1 video game console by Joe Steele, hardcore gamer extraordinaire.

The Wii has some great games, but i'm calling a spade a spade. You can disagree, if you want objective proof aggregate scoring sites are happy to oblige.

Surely metacritic has been disavowed by now? Even if it wasn't generally agreed that the video game review system is in shambles, why would you go to this thread and insist that you strongly disagree with the reviewer on a game you've never played? These posts are literally minutes apart from each other.

 

[Firestorm]

My point in quoting and responding to each one of your games is I'm not sure why you're so hostile and vindictive about it. If people want to believe a certain thing, why does it impact you enough to start getting so agitated over it? I've enjoyed plenty of these games (personally you've forgotten a game like DMC4 which probably belongs above something like VF5 which is lolworthy in terms of sales).

All the games you said were multiplatform were at one point thought of as exclusive to the PS3. That was sort of his point. As they started going multiplatform or bombing, people kept changing their tune to "just wait for [blank]".

Anyway, I think LBP will definitely chart but see no chance in hell of it beating Wii Music. Wii Fit is still sold out almost everywhere. I had some lady come in and say she wanted Wii Fit + a Wii, but we didn't have Wii Fit so she passed. Said she tried it in the mall when it was demoed and had been trying to find it for months. There are people out there in the 50s willing to spend $370 + 12% sales tax to play Wii Fit.

 

[Dragon]

Well, you make a valid...

...nevermind.

You don't fuck with LBP if you know what's good for you.

 

[GitarooMan]

Am I right in saying that the same people who like to discount the Wii software lineup are the same people who disregard Flash/Browser based PC games until they show up on consoles as 'new' and exciting downloadable games?

No, there are just some people who don't like the Wii's software lineup (especially in comparison to the 360/PS3), hard as that may be to believe. If you mean, disregard in a sales sense, I don't know who does that anymore (if they are they are blind), other than to point out the differences in the types/genres of games that make up the bulk of sales on each system.

 

[Dragon]

All the games you said were multiplatform were at one point thought of as exclusive to the PS3. That was sort of his point. As they started going multiplatform or bombing, people kept changing their tune to "just wait for [blank]".

Yeah my point was, who cares? Getting all bent out of shape because people can't see the light is pointless. People are stubborn and stupid. Get over it. The whining about it is just as bad as what is being whined about.

 

[Man God]

I may not have any fancy charts but I don't think the HD versus Wii in North America's 4 million lead is impossible to overcome. Wii still hasn't had a price drop yet and this Holiday might even take a big chunk of that out, depending on how the shipments fall.

 

[Firestorm]

Yeah my point was, who cares? Getting all bent out of shape because people can't see the light is pointless. People are stubborn and stupid. Get over it. The whining about it is just as bad as what is being whined about.

You seemed to be a lot more bent out of shape than he was really. I didn't see it as being that hostile. Then again, I'm not a Sony fanboy so I had nothing to feel offended by.

 

[RBH]

Well, you make a valid...

...nevermind.

:lol

 

[kiUNiT]

You do realize that $150 players are coming as soon as Black Friday... right?

Are $20.00 new releases to follow?

 

[Opiate]

Which is why I don't think your terminology change is appropriate. The Wii isn't for everyone but 16-30 year old males. The Wii is for everyone.

Absolutely, I did not argue this. What I argued, instead, is this: the PS3 and 360 have a disproportionately large portion of the 16-30 year old male bracket, while the Wii has a reasonably sized contingent in this bracket, and a de facto lock on every other demographic due to the disproportionately small populations of those demographics on the PS3 and 360.

Applying this model to reality, this would create the following striation: games palatable to children, women or the elderly would do well on Wii but very poorly on the PS3 and 360, while games for 16-30 year old males would do well on Wii, but extremely and disproportionately well on the PS3 and 360.

And I think those are the results we see. Generally speaking. It seems to me that you're arguing against any labels of any kind, more than you are for the "casual/core" label as an acceptable substitute.

 

[Dragon]

You seemed to be a lot more bent out of shape than he was really. I didn't see it as being that hostile. Then again, I'm not a Sony fanboy so I had nothing to feel offended by.

Perception is reality.

 

[Sage00]

Rock Band 1 first month (Nov) = 311,903 units
Rock Band 2 first month (Sep) = 363,000 units

Seems pretty good to me. Sold better in a slower month and without the bundles being out yet.

edit: Guitar Hero 3's first month (Oct) for comparison - 383,200 units.

Was Nov a 4 or 5 week month?

 

[ThatObviousUser]

The PS2 sales continue to surprise me. And who on god's green earth doesn't own Wii Play now?

Me. I only own two Wiimotes, but am thinking about getting another when GH comes out.

 

[Gaborn]

I may not have any fancy charts but I don't think the HD versus Wii in North America's 4 million lead is impossible to overcome. Wii still hasn't had a price drop yet and this Holiday might even take a big chunk of that out, depending on how the shipments fall.

The holidays are why it may be impossible. Let's say in December the PS3 manages to do a bit more than double it's sales, say 520-530k (just throwing a not unreasonable number out there). Let's say that the 360 JUST doubles it's sales from this month (676k sales) the Wii would have to scare up 1.1 million units just to break even. Possible? Sure, but considering the Wii is already pretty much selling out and considering the PS3 and 360 could potentially do better since they have more stock on shelves (yes, this is the one time of year that would be a positive) than that and they're probably stockpiling some units... I would honestly be shocked if HD doesn't win the holiday season combined by some degree (even though obviously the Wii will kill the consoles individually by a significant margin).

 

[donny2112]

It seems to me that you're arguing against any labels of any kind, more than you are for the "casual/core" label.

I'm not a particular fan of the "casual/core" label, no. I do find it more useful to try to describe individual games as core/non-core as opposed to the audience buying them, though.

 

[Man God]

Was Nov a 4 or 5 week month?

Every third month, starting with March. March, June, September, December. Never changes.