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[kame-sennin]

Isn't that "everyone but 16-30 year old males?" What other demographic does my terminology exclude? I might argue this is much more insulting to the 360 and PS3 than it is to the Wii. I would think that is simultaneously much more precise, while also avoiding the stigma that comes with "casual."

I like core, expanded, and perhaps former gamers. It makes more sense to me because there are many 16-30 year old males who fit into the expanded audience (and vice versa every which way).

 

[donny2112]

Never changes.

Except to account for leap years throwing things off like the 5-week January 2007.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

I am happy that the 360 is selling well, it deserves it just for the virtue of it hitting the price point that the PS3 should have aimed for.

The Wii and the DS are monsters, bar none. Nintendo domination will ensue for at least 1 more generation after this, and Nintendo will be in a FAR stronger position next gen because of HD graphics, mindshare and strong support.

If you think Wii is doing gangbusters, the Wii 2 (or Wii HD) will be INSANE. It will be like the jump from the Playstation to the Playstation 2. You can quote me on this, but the next Nintendo console's sheer domination on the market will be similar to the PS2 (more consolidation), while the Wii right now is similar to the PSone (more fragmentation of the market).

 

[TheHeretic]

Surely metacritic has been disavowed by now? Even if it wasn't generally agreed that the video game review system is in shambles, why would you go to this thread and insist that you strongly disagree with the reviewer on a game you've never played? These posts are literally minutes apart from each other.

The video gaming review system is not in shambles, thats completely ridiculous. Its cute trying to dig up old posts of mine, you will find I very, very rarely ever comment on reviews being "wrong". I am one of the key supporters of review objectivity, even on negative reviews on games I love. As for that comment, I never insisted the reviewer was wrong, that post was mostly a joke. You don't know anyting about how I post or what I stand for, so don't presume otherwise.

But yeah, I don't think very highly of Wii Music because of its E3 showing. Big deal. There are lots of games I hate on of all systems, including fan favourites like MGS4 (but I was hyping LBP from day one) and Starcraft. You can allude to be being a fanboy if you like, but what the hell am I a fan of?

 

[Firestorm]

Are $20.00 new releases to follow?

Yep.

At Future Shop:
Kill Bill - $19.99
Kil Bill Vol. 2 - $19.99
Sin City - $19.99
Gangs of New York - $19.99
From Dark Till Dawn - $19.99
Diary of the Dead - $19.99

October 21st - 23rd.

 

[Opiate]

No, there are just some people who don't like the Wii's software lineup (especially in comparison to the 360/PS3), hard as that may be to believe. If you mean, disregard in a sales sense, I don't know who does that anymore (if they are they are blind), other than to point out the differences in the types/genres of games that make up the bulk of sales on each system.

I just want to highlight GitarooMan as a much more palatable alternative to Heretic: rather than argue that the 360's games are "obviously better" and use rampant condescension to browbeat anyone who disagrees, GitarooMan simply states that some people prefer the 360 and PS3's lineup to the Wii's.

The latter is absolutely reasonable, and is something I happen to agree with. The former is deliberately obtuse.

 

[donny2112]

If you think Wii is doing gangbusters, the Wii 2 (or Wii HD) will be INSANE.

I'm not sure when would be a reasonable expectation for a Wii 2 release, so it's kind of hard to say how it would do. The Wii's performance probably won't hurt it, though. :lol

Yep.

You missed the "new" part and the implication that $20 would be the normal price as opposed to a sale price.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

My point in quoting and responding to each one of your games is I'm not sure why you're so hostile and vindictive about it. If people want to believe a certain thing, why does it impact you enough to start getting so agitated over it? I've enjoyed plenty of these games (personally you've forgotten a game like DMC4 which probably belongs above something like VF5 which is lolworthy in terms of sales).

Relax, dude. I'm not being hostile or vindictive over anything. I'm just answering someone's question by describing the fanboy thought process as the "war" progressed. Each of these games was fuel for list wars that was quickly dropped when they didn't have their intended effect on PS3 sales.

Don't fuck with LBP. I couldn't care less how you label it, nor do I care about hyping a game up and being 'embarrassed', sorry I had to use quotation marks because it makes me appear smarter, if the game is fucking good. I can't speak for the SDF, but I love my PS3, I love playing and enjoying games on it, along with my 360 and I don't see why you can't get off your pedestal and enjoy games too. But I forgot you're too busy keeping us in line, making sure we don't hype a game too much because we want a particular console to succeed so we get to play more games we're interested in. Sorry, next time I'll check in with you before getting excited about something.

It's perfectly OK to hype up a game. I myself am spazzing out over Castlevania: OoE. What I'm not doing, however, is preaching that this game will usher in a golden age of 2D gaming revival - which is what some Sony fans are doing with LBP and the PS3.

People should be hyping up LBP because it's an incredible game. Not because it'll "appeal to casuals" or "has the potential to be huge" as some are doing. It's by setting these unreasonable expectations these clowns who are going to make LBP an object of ridicule by the other fanchildren come the next NPD thread. Just as they did with just about every other high profile PS3 exclusive that has been released.

 

[TheHeretic]

I just want to highlight GitarooMan as a much more palatable alternative to Heretic: rather than argue that the 360's games are "obviously better" and use rampant condescension to browbeat anyone who disagrees, GitarooMan simply states that some people prefer the 360 and PS3's lineup to the Wii's.

The latter is absolutely reasonable, and is something I happen to agree with. The former is deliberately obtuse.

Its "TheHeretic", and not once have I resorted to ad hominem in this thread. Colour me any way you like, it doesn't correspond to reality.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

I'm not sure when would be a reasonable expectation for a Wii 2 release, so it's kind of hard to say how it would do. The Wii's performance probably won't hurt it, though. :lol

When all is said and done, the Wii will likely have strong 3rd party from Japan (we are already seeing it now). The Wii has mindshare with the mainstream. The main problem of the Wii at the moment is graphics and 3rd party games.

This will be alleviated next generation because the next Wii should have HD graphics, and it will have more 3rd party support.

Mark my words boys and girls, the Wii to the next Wii console will be like jumping from the PS1 to the PS2. Nintendo will further consolidate their power in the gaming market, instead of losing it. All they need is waggle plus a huge graphics increase (and a sub-200 price point) and they already have the next console race in the bag.

 

[P90]

The Wii is selling on its motion controls and popular media reception, not its games library.

?

Have links to a market study that support your rear-end pulled out of statement?

Like Sony or MS wouldn't love to have WiiFit, Monster Hunter, SSB:B, Super Mario Galaxy, etc. as titles in their consoles' lineups. Each current console has "holes" in its library. The people have spoken and the Wii has the least and smallest "holes".

 

[Opiate]

The video gaming review system is not in shambles, thats completely ridiculous. Its cute trying to dig up old posts of mine, you will find I very, very rarely ever comment on reviews being "wrong".

Old posts? You made that post an hour ago. The thread it's in is on the front page. I didn't do any digging at all, as it I was simply reading that thread. It didn't take a sleuth to put the two posts together.

I am one of the key supporters of review objectivity, even on negative reviews on games I love. As for that comment, I never insisted the reviewer was wrong, that post was mostly a joke. You don't know anyting about how I post or what I stand for, so don't presume otherwise.

Then I think you'll find you're in the minority, even on a site likes this one, which would presumably be the sort of demographic that gaming magazines most heavily cater to.

But yeah, I don't think very highly of Wii Music because of its E3 showing. Big deal. There are lots of games I hate on of all systems, including fan favourites like MGS4 (but I was hyping LBP from day one) and Starcraft. You can allude to be being a fanboy if you like, but what the hell am I a fan of?

I'm not suggesting you're a fanboy, I'm suggesting you're intolerant of other's preferences. Rather than assume that other people simply have different tastes than you, and that the majority of people simply prefer different things, you concoct a complex theory to explain why a system with an "obviously" better library could possibly be outsold 2:1.

When the much simpler and more obvious reason is: the system that is selling better is perceived by most people to have a better library. You just happen to disagree with them. So do I. And that is fine. They are not philistines for preferring the Wii's library to the PS3/360s, and we are not inherently wrong for disagreeing with the majority.

Starcraft is my favorite game created in the last 40 years, by the way. Great taste, indeed!

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

You don't fuck with LBP if you know what's good for you.

Shots fired. :lol

I should hope that GAF is mature enough to separate the performance of Little Big Planet from its obvious quality as a game

Spoiler

who am I kidding

. On the flipside, people shouldn't expect a well reviewed game to suddenly make a difference in a sales thread.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

Oh yeah, and before you post that what I am speaking is Hyperbole, just remember that the person posting here is a Sony Fan. My allegiance to Sony, not Nintendo.

So what I am posting is me just posting what I believe will happen from my observations.

 

[ZERATUL PL]

Thought Microsoft will sell more 360's... maybe in october... Fable 2 FTW

 

[Hcoregamer00]

Thought Microsoft will sell more 360's... maybe in october... Fable 2 FTW

I am buying it in November or December, I just want one with the GPU revision.

That is all I ask, my 5 XBOX 360 games are begging to be played.

 

[Opiate]

Its "TheHeretic", and not once have I resorted to ad hominem in this thread. Colour me any way you like, it doesn't correspond to reality.

You said: "[This] isn't soccer moms united." I didn't mean to imply that you were brow beating me, you were belittling those who could possibly think the Wii's lineup is better.

And I'm sorry if I offended you: I was aware your name is "TheHeretic," but in most internet conversations short hand is acceptable. You won't find many people referring to Donny as Donny2112, for example, and I would be shocked if that offended him.

 

[GitarooMan]

BTW, you know sales threads are completely dead when people even take a passing glance at the barely inflammatory shit that I say. Hopefully next month when LBP doesn't make the top 10 or Wii Music sells 500k or maybe PS3 moves out of the Gamecube ghetto things will get interesting again.

 

[TheHeretic]

I'm not suggesting you're a fanboy, I'm suggesting you're intolerant of other's preferences. Rather than assume that other people simply have different tastes than you, and that the majority of people simply prefer different things, you concoct a complex theory to explain why a system with an "obviously" better library could possibly be outsold 2:1.

When the much simpler and more obvious reason is: the system that is selling better is perceived by most people to have a better library. You just happen to disagree with them. So do I. And that is fine. They are not philistines for preferring the Wii's library to the PS3/360s, and we are not inherently wrong for disagreeing with the majority.

Starcraft is my favorite game created in the last 40 years, by the way. Great taste, indeed!

Starcraft is one of my favourite games as well, but not anymore. I mostly hate on the ongoing claim that its never been topped.

My theory as to why the Wii is selling so well isn't complex in the slightest. If you are going to use software as the key mover how do you explain the PS2 outselling the Dreamcast? You are trying to use occam's razor here but it doesn't apply, but your model can't explain previous turns in the market.

Again, my only claim is that console sales are driven primarily by forces other than software.

And yes, I am intolerant. I don't really see what that has to do with anything.

 

[Hero]

So in a few months Wii will have outsold PS360 worldwide. Ridiculous.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

are people here honestly going to be surprised when Wii Music outsells Fable 2 and LBP? Can we put a preemptive stop on all the hyperbole and doom and gloom next month and inform you idiots that yes Wii Music will outsell both those and LBP will probably chart in the bottom 5 if its lucky?

 

[TheHeretic]

You said: "[This] isn't soccer moms united." I didn't mean to imply that you were brow beating me, you were belittling those who could possibly think the Wii's lineup is better.

People who think the Wii's lineup is better are going to be hardcore nintendo fans and people who think of the industry as a novelty. Frankly I don't see why respecting their tastes is important when they give every incentive to make mediocre games with licensing.

 

[Gaborn]

BTW, you know sales threads are completely dead when people even take a passing glance at the barely inflammatory shit that I say. Hopefully next month when LBP doesn't make the top 10 or Wii Music sells 500k or maybe PS3 moves out of the Gamecube ghetto things will get interesting again.

THAT would be really interesting. I'm operating off the premise that at least for the first month the earliest LBP adopters will tend to be people who already own the system and therefore we will see a relatively small bump in hardware as a result. If a hugely disproportionate amount of people adopt the PS3 that month it could suggest at least a temporary sea change (not that it would affect the Wii, but it would make the 360 race interesting for a month or two more)

 

[Jon]

are people here honestly going to be surprised when Wii Music outsells Fable 2 and LBP? Can we put a preemptive stop on all the hyperbole and doom and gloom next month and inform you idiots that yes Wii Music will outsell both those and LBP will probably chart in the bottom 5 if its lucky?

I am putting LBP at 225k. I think it will sell very similarly to Uncharted. But I definitely agree about Wii Music--it is gonna make a killing.

 

[P90]

Again, my only claim is that console sales are driven primarily by forces other than software.

And yes, I am intolerant. I don't really see what that has to do with anything.

Please back up your claim with legitimate sources. Your claim makes no logical sense, but stranger things are true.

:lol At least you are honest about your intolerance.

 

[ultim8p00]

What is up with Amir0x and "SPIKE"?

SPIKE SPIKE SPIKE SPIKE
SPIKE SPIKE SPIKE SPIKE

He's all over the place at N4G

 

[kame-sennin]

The Wii is selling on its motion controls and popular media reception, not its games library.

So you say. I really have nothing else to go on. I believe the Wii sells because people like Wii Sports and Wii Fit, you disagree.

Furthermore the video gaming market in terms of sales is incredibly frontloaded. The Wii might do more to shake this trend because of the nature of its fanbase, but it still rings true for every console.

The sales of Wii software proves this statement to be factually false. You can't claim something to be fact when all available data proves you wrong. Popular Wii games have very long tails. That's not even considering DS with NSMB, Brain Age, and Mario Kart. There may be an alternate reality where Brain Age is frontloaded, but it's not this one.

I don't believe they think the Wii has the superior library, because I don't think they are buying the Wii based on aggregate lists of games. They are buying the Wii because its the cool new device to own, any software sales thereafter are from walking in a store and picking out what appeals to them.

If you want to talk about the casual market you can't hold them to the same standards we use to decide which console to buy. Thats where your argument falls apart.

This is a level of elitism that seems to hurt your analysis. I would agree that it's not a list of games, but one or two specific titles that probably causes consumers to buy a Wii, but it is ridiculous to say that they have no standards as to what they buy. There are many successful games on the Wii, and many bombs. Most gafers have been successfully predicting bombs and hits since the system launched on a fairly consistent basis. The expanded audience may not be as sophisticated or dedicated, but it is clear that there is a somewhat consistent standard for what they buy. It might help you to think of the Wii as a brand of microwave oven, and its software as frozen dinners. Mom's may not do extensive research when picking out their meals, but a combination of marketing, packaging, and gut instinct is what determines their buying habits.

The theory is broken if it can't be used to predict the future, period. A theory is completely worthless if it can only be used to justify events that have happened in the past.

Then this theory still stands. Plenty of people who saw the Nintendo stampede at E3 06 predicted the success of the console. Just because a majority of Gaf didn't see it coming doesn't break the rule. I never said a certain kind of game sells hardware, just that popular software sells hardware.

People believing that previously popular title like GT and MGS that sold very well on the PS2 would propell the PS3 was completely reasonable.

No they weren't. Core games were trending down in Japan at the end of the generation, and physically/socially interactive games like Guitar Hero were trending up. Software tastes were changing, the fact that people followed software did not. Furthermore, endless sequels do not excite the market, which is why Mario 64 did not save the Nintendo 64.

What happened was that people who had bought that console went out and bought those games, not the other way around. People buy consoles, and within that framework buy games. Thats my "theory" as to why consoles with unanimously better lineups (DC vs PS2, the early years) can fail. Theres much more the hardware sales than the devices software lineup.

This is an interesting statement because you tip-toe around any actual explanation for why people buy hardware in the first place, leading them to then buy software "within that framework". Why would anyone by a console without software? It's just a plastic case. Why would anyone buy it?

Halo was the hook of the Xbox, DVD's were the hook of the PS2, the Wii Mote is the hook of the Wii. People think Wii Sports is selling Wiis because its a game, I disagree. I think Wii sports perfectly showcases the capabilites of the system, and that got people excited.

I imagine there were people who bought Wii because of the hype and the concept. Are people still buying the Wii because they are excited by motion controls? Are grandmothers buying the Wii because they are excited by motion control? That's a lot of units to push out on hype.

 

[Firestorm]

You missed the "new" part and the implication that $20 would be the normal price as opposed to a sale price.

Those BluRays are being released on October 21st for the first time. I guess they're not new in the sense it's the first time they're hitting DVD/BluRay, but this is their first bluray release. Also, most DVDs are cheaper for the first day or two.

 

[donny2112]

Popular Wii games have very long tales.

I'm pretty sure it's "tails."

I do enjoy your posts, by the way.

 

[ZERATUL PL]

I am buying it in November or December, I just want one with the GPU revision.

That is all I ask, my 5 XBOX 360 games are begging to be played.

I already made preorders for OCT and NOV games...

already picked up Dead Space....
next week
fable 2(360), little big planet (ps3), Far cry 2(360), then following fallout 3(360)
Nov
Endwar (360), Gears of War 2(360) and Mirrors Edge (360)

later prob TR:Underworld and Prince of Persia... but prob December

 

[donny2112]

Those BluRays are being released on October 21st for the first time. I guess they're not new in the sense it's the first time they're hitting DVD/BluRay, but this is their first bluray release.

Oh, I didn't know. It's sort of like Lost Planet coming out for the PS3 a year later. Technically, it's new, but it's not.

Also, most DVDs are cheaper for the first day or two.

If $20 is the cheaper cost for Blu-Ray the "first day or two," you understand his point.

 

[Opiate]

Starcraft is one of my favourite games as well, but not anymore. I mostly hate on the ongoing claim that its never been topped.

My theory as to why the Wii is selling so well isn't complex in the slightest. If you are going to use software as the key mover how do you explain the PS2 outselling the Dreamcast?

In exactly the same way I explain the Wii: more people preferred the PS2's library. I think Madden had a lot to do with it, for example. It's the quintessential example, isn't it? The Dreamcast is rightly remembered as a "hardcore" player's dream console, but the release of Gran Turismo 3 and Grand Theft Auto 3 as Playstation exclusives within the first year of the system's release (and it is only then that the system truly launched to the stars). Those who love Soul Calibur 1 truly love it, but there aren't very many of those people. More people prefer the games I mentioned. The end.

[/quote]And yes, I am intolerant. I don't really see what that has to do with anything.[/QUOTE]

It has to do with you being intolerant. Intolerance is generally recognized as a character flaw. In this case, it manifests itself as a stubborn refusal to accept other people's opinions as equal to your own -- particularly when those opinions happen to differ.

 

[Firestorm]

Oh, I didn't know. It's sort of like Lost Planet coming out for the PS3 a year later. Technically, it's new, but it's not.



If $20 is the cheaper cost for Blu-Ray the "first day or two," you understand his point.

Well, it'd be like an HD remake really And yes I guess I do. $20 isn't too bad for a new movie though! I mean, the cheap price for a DVD is usually only about $17 for a new release!

 

[kame-sennin]

I had some lady come in and say she wanted Wii Fit + a Wii, but we didn't have Wii Fit so she passed. Said she tried it in the mall when it was demoed and had been trying to find it for months. There are people out there in the 50s willing to spend $370 + 12% sales tax to play Wii Fit.

Nope. She was just excited by motion controls. The software is meaningless to her.

I'm pretty sure it's "tails."

I do enjoy your posts, by the way.

Dammit. I hate making mistakes like that. Thanks for the correction and the compliment.

 

[TheHeretic]

This is a level of elitism that seems to hurt your analysis. I would agree that it's not a list of games, but one or two specific titles that probably causes consumers to buy a Wii, it is ridiculous to say that they have no standards as to what they buy. There are many successful games on the Wii, and many bombs. Most gafers have been successfully predicting bombs and hits since the system launched on a fairly consistent basis. The expanded audience may not be a sophisticated or dedicated, but it is clear that there is a somewhat consistent standard for what they buy. It might help you to think of the Wii as a brand of microwave oven, and its software as frozen dinners. Mom's may not due extensive research when picking out their meals, but a combination of marketing, packaging, and gut instinct is what determines their buying habits.

I never stated they have "no standards", but to think they actually care about reviews or any objective perceptions of quality is ridiculous. Most people thought Boom Blox would be a hit, and it wasn't, and i've yet to hear a good reason why. I fail to see any consistent standard to what they buy, Metroid Prime 3 did quite poorly considering it was a Nintendo core game, and Boom Blox crashed and burned despite being an accessible (and great) game. Zack and Wiki also did mediocre sales despite its broad appeal and quality.

Consistent is the 360 fanbase. Shooters do well, great shooters do great and JRPG's don't make charts. Its completely obvious what 360 fans are going to buy, the same is not true for the Wii.

Then this theory still stands. Plenty of people who saw the Nintendo stampede at E3 06 predicted the success of the console. Just because a majority of Gaf didn't see it coming doesn't break the rule.

I had a feeling the console was going to do surprisingly well, I'm not sure that means anything. I believe it did well because of the design of its hardware, SD focus and the Wii Sports as a tech demo for the Wii Mote. Please note I didn't mention software library.

No they weren't. Core games were trending down in Japan at the end of the generation, and physically/socially interactive games like Guitar Hero were trending up. Software tastes were changing, the fact that people followed software did not.

Guitar Hero is a new genre (edit: poor wording, its part of a new genre), and "core games" are selling just as well as Guitar Hero. Halo 3 is one of the best selling games of all time, then theres CoD4, Mario Galaxy, Gears of War, and plenty more. Software changes haven't changed at all, more people are being brought into the market and are buying more broad appeal software. The core games are selling better than ever.

This is an interesting statement because you tip-toe around any actual explanation for why people buy hardware in the first place, leading them to then buy software "within that framework". Why would anyone by a console without software? It's just a plastic case. Why would anyone buy it?

I've never claimed people don't buy software, but their decision to buy a particular console is not the software on the system. All 3 consoles have games, the decision to buy one over the other (and subsequently buy that software) is based on many other factors that do not include specific games.

I imagine there were people who bought Wii because of the hype and the concept. Are people still buying the Wii because they are excited by motion controls? Are grandmothers buying the Wii because they are excited by motion control? That's a lot of units to push out on hype.

The word "hype" is yours, not mine. I'm not downplaying the success of the Wii for a second, so don't pin that on me. Yes, the motion controls and pleasing aesthetic of the console are still whats moving the console, in my opinion anyway. Hype would be the consoles place in the media, which is very favourable.

 

[Mr.Potato Head]

Yeah my point was, who cares? Getting all bent out of shape because people can't see the light is pointless. People are stubborn and stupid. Get over it. The whining about it is just as bad as what is being whined about.

Umm..say, charlie..caugh caugh...say, have you looked in the mirror, ............ lately?

Another confused drone that needs re-programming

 

[hellclerk]

People who think the Wii's lineup is better are going to be hardcore nintendo fans and people who think of the industry as a novelty. Frankly I don't see why respecting their tastes is important when they give every incentive to make mediocre games with licensing.

and people who think the Wii's lineup is worse are going to be people with bitter tears about Nintendo's dominance or frat boy drunkards. frankly, i don't see why respecting their tastes is important when they give every incentive to make mediocre shooters with bald space marines


you see what i did there? it takes two to tango, and it's not like your ridiculous argument has any more merit than mine. your argument is so full of holes it's stupid.

 

[Opiate]

People who think the Wii's lineup is better are going to be hardcore nintendo fans and people who think of the industry as a novelty. Frankly I don't see why respecting their tastes is important when they give every incentive to make mediocre games with licensing.

First and foremost, this is a sales thread. As I said earlier, the purchase of 1 video game system by Soccer Mom #7832 is worth exactly and precisely as much as the purchase of 1 video game system by Joe Steele, hardcore gamer.

Secondly, if you are going to continue to be intolerant, then I'm simply going to have to drop out of this conversation. I don't mean that as an insult, it's just apparent that this is a difference we're not going to reconcile.

 

[Redd]

Oh yeah, and before you post that what I am speaking is Hyperbole, just remember that the person posting here is a Sony Fan. My allegiance to Sony, not Nintendo.

You don't seem like a Sony fan even though you think you're one. You're more an RPG fan and the PS1 and PS2 happened to have the best library of those games. You're buying a 360 this year too so I'm probably right. Bet you own a psp and ds too.

 

[norinrad21]

I'm becoming very frustrated with the PS3, can't Sony just send the mobs in Japan into development houses to re-educate them?

Where the heck is team iCO? Where are my RPGS that are supposed to complement my Nintendo games?

 

[TheHeretic]

First and foremost, this is a sales thread. As I said earlier, the purchase of 1 video game system by Soccer Mom #7832 is worth exactly and precisely as much as the purchase of 1 video game system by Joe Steele, hardcore gamer.

Yes...

Secondly, if you are going to continue to be intolerant, then I'm simply going to have to drop out of this conversation. I don't mean that as an insult, it's just apparent that this is a difference we're not going to reconcile.

I don't understand what (if anything) we are talking about anymore. If the point of contention that a soccor mom buying paying $60 is the same as joe hardcore paying $60? If so consider the argument over.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Guitar Hero is a new genre (edit: poor wording, its part of a new genre), and "core games" are selling just as well as Guitar Hero. Halo 3 is the best selling game of all time, then theres CoD4, Mario Galaxy, Gears of War, and plenty more. Software changes haven't changed at all, more people are being brought into the market and are buying more broad appeal software. The core games are selling better than ever.

Wut?

Never mind that New Super Mario Bros. also beats Halo 3's numbers. Or Nintendogs. Pokémon Red/Blue/Green too.

 

[TheHeretic]

Wut?

Poor wording on my part. Best selling game within a time period.

 

[Opiate]

I'm not a particular fan of the "casual/core" label, no. I do find it more useful to try to describe individual games as core/non-core as opposed to the audience buying them, though.

Again, why? Surely a system with a variety of much more specific labels (young boys, young girls, men, women, old men, old women, and so forth) is superior to a system with only two labels, and moreover, with two labels that we all agree are vaguely defined, at best?

 

[Regulus Tera]

Poor wording on my part. Best selling game within a time period.

Grand Theft Auto IV has also beaten Halo 3's numbers. And, as said before, both titles' sales pale in comparison to Nintendogs and New Super Mario Bros.

 

[Sushen]

I am happy that the 360 is selling well, it deserves it just for the virtue of it hitting the price point that the PS3 should have aimed for.

When I consider only the game selections and their excellent online service, my heart goes out for 360. However, when I think about the crummy hardware that red-rings or scratches discs, I feel it's a shame that they had such a complete mismatch between the software and hardware. MS totally blew their chance to be the dominant force of this generation.

 

[Opiate]

I don't understand what (if anything) we are talking about anymore. If the point of contention that a soccor mom buying paying $60 is the same as joe hardcore paying $60? If so consider the argument over.

Here is a brief synopsis of the discussion:

TheHeretic says that 360 obviously has a better line up of games.

Opiate says that this isn't true, and points to a wide swathe of demographics that would likely disagree.

TheHeretic belittles these people, calling them "Soccer Moms United," and explicitly states that he is intolerant of their opinions.

Opiate says that intolerance is generally considered a personal failing, that the opinions of others are just as important as our own, and that this is particularly true in a sales thread.

TheHeretic apparently disagrees.

And yes, I believe that is the end of the discussion.

 

[Sushen]

I'm becoming very frustrated with the PS3, can't Sony just send the mobs in Japan into development houses to re-educate them?

Where the heck is team iCO? Where are my RPGS that are supposed to complement my Nintendo games?

Someone, please, find an answer why they're not developing the next GT instead of the demo version called prologue. What are they working on if they're not working on GT series???

 

[TheHeretic]

Here is a brief synopsis of the discussion:

TheHeretic says that 360 obviously has a better line up of games.

Opiate says that this isn't true, and points to a wide swathe of demographics that would likely disagree.

TheHeretic belittles these people, calling them "Soccer Moms United," and explicitly states that he is intolerant of their opinions.

Opiate says that intolerance is generally considered a personal failing, that the opinions of others are just as important as our own, and that this is particularly true in a sales thread.

TheHeretic apparently disagrees.

And yes, I believe that is the end of the discussion.

My point as i'm having with someone else is that I don't the games library is explicitly why the Wii is selling. From a financial standpoint the opinions of people who soaked up carnvial games might be important, but as a gamer it really isn't. Its like saying movie fans should be tolerant of people who liked Epic Movie.

 

[The Faceless Master]

I never stated they have "no standards", but to think they actually care about reviews or any objective perceptions of quality is ridiculous. Most people thought Boom Blox would be a hit, and it wasn't, and i've yet to hear a good reason why. I fail to see any consistent standard to what they buy, Metroid Prime 3 did quite poorly considering it was a Nintendo core game, and Boom Blox crashed and burned despite being an accessible (and great) game. Zack and Wiki also did mediocre sales despite its broad appeal and quality.

and yet, strangely, EA thought Boom Blox sales were good, and Capcom said the same about Zak & Wiki. Hrm, could it be that, like many other wii games, the numbers we see (first month) are not an indicator of how well they sell overall?