ok, when the hell does star trek tng get better?
- Thread starter jarosh
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XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
jarosh said:this is season 1 in a nutshell btw:
The Librarian
Banned
Season 4.Fuzzy said:
Season 2 has some good episodes with the other doctor, who is a bitch in a good way. She's actually pretty cool.
However it starts getting good in season 3, but doesn't hit its full stride until season 4 or 5.
Make no mistake, every season has at least 5 episodes that are painful to watch.
However it starts getting good in season 3, but doesn't hit its full stride until season 4 or 5.
Make no mistake, every season has at least 5 episodes that are painful to watch.
Gary Whitta
Member
Ugh... no. Anything with Pulaski is an instant skip, especially episodes featuring the ham-fisted portrayal of her prejudice against Data.
ConfusingJazz
Member
Gary Whitta said:
Did I block that out of my mind because of how bad it is? That sounds absolutely terrible, and I don't remember it at all.
Instigator
Banned
Like others have said, start with season 3. But I do recommend you see the episode Q Who in season 2, it gives you the Borg and Q at the same time. One of the best episode in the series, IMHO.
Mama Robotnik
Member
TNG Seasons 1 and 2 were weak.
But there were a few gems in there:
"Where No One Has Gone Before" - Some massive flaws and bad characters, but damnit I love the imagination-space outside the ship. In one journey, the Enterprise travelled to somewhere more frightening, fascinating and alien than the entireity of Voyager. I wish Trek explored more truly fucked-up corners of creation.
"Datalore" - great evil twin episode, Lore is an interesting bastard and its paced quite well. Spiner steals every scene in this fun action romp.
"Elementary, Dear Data" - the first truly great episode. Moriarty is charismatic, threating, and terrifyingly intelligent. His journey of discovery, from summoning the holodeck arch, addressing "Mr Computer" and his dawning realisation of the "real world", are masterfully played by Daniel Davis. The actor steals every fucking scene and makes the episode his own. One of my favourite ever episodes.
"The Measure of a Man" - The most intelligent script up until this point. Through a series of quiet, intense scenes, the show explores the question of life itself. A deep, philosphical episode.
"Q Who?" - The Borg's introduction is masterfully done. They are a truly alien creature for Trek, a zombie/Cyberman hybrid that relentlessly devours all in their wake.
Season 3 is when the consistent quality begins, but the above episodes are godlike (except WNOHGB and Datalore, which are merely very entertaining).
EDIT
Just remembered another reason why "Elementary, Dear Data" is so important to watch; it sets up the incredible headfuck that his "Ship in a Bottle" later on.
What a genius idea that was by the way. Barclay and Moriarty. The real man who tries to escape into a fantasy world, and the fantasy man who tries to escape into the real world.
I'm going to rewatch both Moriarty episodes this weekend thanks to this thread.
But there were a few gems in there:
"Where No One Has Gone Before" - Some massive flaws and bad characters, but damnit I love the imagination-space outside the ship. In one journey, the Enterprise travelled to somewhere more frightening, fascinating and alien than the entireity of Voyager. I wish Trek explored more truly fucked-up corners of creation.
"Datalore" - great evil twin episode, Lore is an interesting bastard and its paced quite well. Spiner steals every scene in this fun action romp.
"Elementary, Dear Data" - the first truly great episode. Moriarty is charismatic, threating, and terrifyingly intelligent. His journey of discovery, from summoning the holodeck arch, addressing "Mr Computer" and his dawning realisation of the "real world", are masterfully played by Daniel Davis. The actor steals every fucking scene and makes the episode his own. One of my favourite ever episodes.
"The Measure of a Man" - The most intelligent script up until this point. Through a series of quiet, intense scenes, the show explores the question of life itself. A deep, philosphical episode.
"Q Who?" - The Borg's introduction is masterfully done. They are a truly alien creature for Trek, a zombie/Cyberman hybrid that relentlessly devours all in their wake.
Season 3 is when the consistent quality begins, but the above episodes are godlike (except WNOHGB and Datalore, which are merely very entertaining).
EDIT
Just remembered another reason why "Elementary, Dear Data" is so important to watch; it sets up the incredible headfuck that his "Ship in a Bottle" later on.
What a genius idea that was by the way. Barclay and Moriarty. The real man who tries to escape into a fantasy world, and the fantasy man who tries to escape into the real world.
I'm going to rewatch both Moriarty episodes this weekend thanks to this thread.
bafflewaffle
Member
never understand this, why sit throuh hours of something they do not like?jarosh said:
gaf crap on someone for making bad post it take seconds to read, but will watch hours, hours of crap!
just another example of......GAF HYPOCRISY!!!!!!!!
i like star trek. and initially i was hell-bent on sitting through all of it till it gets better. i didn't wanna watch the whole show but then arbitrarily skip what might be bad episodes - which i could have never known for sure, unless i watched them. that was my mindset. however, i got so sick of the awful writing that i've been reconsidering. but now that i have read some people's comments i think i'm just gonna finish s1 after all. there's only 6 eps left and s2 is supposed to be an improvement. and i want to see the show grow.bafflewaffle said:
is this a sufficient explanation for you? OR DO YOU NEED MORE BOLD ALL CAPS TEXT AND EXCLAMATION MARKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bafflewaffle
Member
yes it makes sensejarosh said:
but I do not have much this patience...can sit through 2hr movie to see maybe it gets better, but not moreSeason 1 is awful (claymation happens a few times IIRC).
Season 2 is pretty bad IIRC.
Season 3 onward are pretty good.
The best Star Trek series is Deep Space 9. It's the only series that had an actual continuing story arc, spread across the entire series, with the last 3 seasons pretty much purely focused on it.
Season 2 is pretty bad IIRC.
Season 3 onward are pretty good.
The best Star Trek series is Deep Space 9. It's the only series that had an actual continuing story arc, spread across the entire series, with the last 3 seasons pretty much purely focused on it.
Mama Robotnik
Member
Juice said:
Nothing, nothing in TNG 1/2 is worse than "Threshold", the only episode of Trek that has been decanonised and apologised for by its writers.
Gary Whitta
Member
I remember that episode and don't recall it being THAT bad. Interested to learn that it had been stripped from canon; I didn't know that. Why exactly is it hated so much?Mama Robotnik said:
Government-man
Member
While the writing quality may be lacking in the first season compared to the later ones, I still enjoy watching them all for some reason. Maybe it's just the characters and their chemistry.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
There are people out there who dislike DS9 for that very reason - they much prefer their Trek to be episodic.Zzoram said:
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
XiaNaphryz said:
both approaches are perfectly viable to me, but there is something to be said for the emotional payoff in the DS9 finale. i watched it and--not to be corny or anything--at the end, my fucking heart hurt. it was one of those series whose ending i mourned; i had to go watch all the dvd extras about the production of the show, the casting, development, the wrap parties when it was all over. . .
DS9. yes. fantastic, through and through.
Alex Anderson
Member
Gary Whitta said:
Word. Was coming to post, "If you skip season two at least try to see The Measure of a Man somehow."
TNG has aged horribly...especially the feeble videotape to film conversion process that makes every episode look like it's filmed through vaseline. The worst thing about the Berman era of Trek is the incidental music, which is fucking atrocious - apparantly Berman didn't want the music to overshadow the visuals so told composers to stop making any epic memorable scores to episodes.
Gary Whitta said:
This is wrong. i used to agree, but there are some good episodes in season 2. she actually serves an important part of challenging the team by her constant opposition to Data, and in the process helps Data's character develop significantly.
"Elementary, Dear Data"
"The Measure of a Man"
"Peak Performance" -- also decent
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Gary Whitta said:
I still think Pulaski was an improvement over Crusher. I'll take a carbon-coy Dr. McCoy over Crusher any day. While it wasn't as successful I liked the attempt to recreate the Spock/McCoy relationship with Pulaski/Data. Least there were some stories with Pulaski. Crusher was just plain boring.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Gary Whitta said:
Partly because they "broke" the warp 10 threshold, but beyond that it was just because it was a terrible episode. I do think last Enterprise ep was worse though.
soco said:
Wasn't just based on for Tom Paris. The only reason they changed Tom Paris name is so they didn't have to pay the writing staff from that TNG episode.
silverbullet1080
Banned
WHY CAN'T YOU BE LIKE LLOYD BRAUN?flyover said:The weird thing about TNG is that there's only a handful of truly great episodes, and yet I'll happily watch even the worst. It's my favorite TV comfort food.
Heck, I sometimes make a point of watching it, no matter which episode is airing. Unless it's the one with Matt McCoy. Screw that guy.
D
Deleted member 1159
Unconfirmed Member
I was just looking through the episode listing on Wikipedia and saw the one about the initial encounter with the Ferengi...I can't believe how different they were when compared to the DS9 portrayal :lol
So I'm trying to think back to those trek technical manuals that I used to pore over in junior high. Isn't TNG's warp 10 basically "infinity"? Like, if you're graphing out warp speeds, the curve infinitely approaches 10, but never quite gets there?DrForester said:
If so, then :lol at "breaking" warp 10.
"How fast are we going? Oh; 3x infinity? Nice! We'll be just in time for EVERYTHING ALL AT ONCE."
Re-watching this recently, I hate the fact there are no story arcs. Things happen, or are discovered, and are then never mentioned again. But I used to have an episode guide book that detailed the making off each episode, and I remember that long story arcs where something that the writers wanted badly but weren't allowed as it would affect the chances of syndication, where episodes might not be shown in order. They had to fight for the even the 2 parters.
Also this. Far to much music. It never seems to stop.
Raydeen said:
Also this. Far to much music. It never seems to stop.
D
Deleted member 1159
Unconfirmed Member
Cryptozoologist said:
Sharp knees
OneEightZero
aka ThreeOneFour
wayward archer
Member
It doesn't.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
jpj said:
sad. the cast deserved better. i felt when i watched the show straight through that the relationships were really underdeveloped. i can't imagine how much better "all good things. . . " would have been had i really felt that geordi and jean luc were friends. same for the rest of the crew.
again, not to beat a dead horse here, but that's why DS9 was so effective. because miles and julian actually have small moments together and have bonded over the course of the show--because the individual episodes that focus on them are referenced repeatedly--the fate of their friendship matters.
PowersOfTen
Banned
I'm watching the series right now for the first time and i'm up to season 6 episode 10. I like all the seasons i've watched on some level. There are however some really bad episodes in all of the seasons.
My major gripe about TNG is how different the characters became as the show went on. In episode 1 Troi seemed to be really useful (almost overpowered) with her ability to read minds and shit, but later on 99% of the time she can't read that particular alien's thoughts or for some reason there's interference. They turned her into a human (beta zoid?) mood ring.
Worf and Data are extremely inconsistent characters as well. Technology on the enterprise is crap because it doesn't work half the time. Geordi goes from pilot to engineer... and what happened to the chronic pain he suffered from his visor (did they even forget he had a visor)? Crusher is so bad the producers wanted to fire the actress that played her.
Still love the show.
My major gripe about TNG is how different the characters became as the show went on. In episode 1 Troi seemed to be really useful (almost overpowered) with her ability to read minds and shit, but later on 99% of the time she can't read that particular alien's thoughts or for some reason there's interference. They turned her into a human (beta zoid?) mood ring.
Worf and Data are extremely inconsistent characters as well. Technology on the enterprise is crap because it doesn't work half the time. Geordi goes from pilot to engineer... and what happened to the chronic pain he suffered from his visor (did they even forget he had a visor)? Crusher is so bad the producers wanted to fire the actress that played her.
Still love the show.
Eugene Wesley "Gene" Roddenberry (August 19, 1921 October 24, 1991)
October 24, 1991, that's when it got better,
this isn't meant to be an attack on Gene, without him no startrek, hence that would be a bad thing,
it is unfortunate Lucas is still kicking around re-imagining the starwars universe surrounded by "yes" men,
so in answer to the OP,
"September 28, 1987 May 23, 1994" was the run from start to finish
I would start at season 3,
again I am not being sarcastic or trying to be mean,
October 24, 1991, that's when it got better,
this isn't meant to be an attack on Gene, without him no startrek, hence that would be a bad thing,
it is unfortunate Lucas is still kicking around re-imagining the starwars universe surrounded by "yes" men,
so in answer to the OP,
"September 28, 1987 May 23, 1994" was the run from start to finish
I would start at season 3,
again I am not being sarcastic or trying to be mean,
lunarworks
Member
Damn you, trapped on that site again!ConfusingJazz said:
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