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[peteykirch]

I don't come into this thread often but I read the past few pages including your posts and…I want to help you somehow. So I'll tell you something that many people in here won't.

From what I can tell, you're 5'4" and you say you're not attractive. This hurts you. A lot. Especially online. You are going to have a much harder time on OKC than the average guy, no matter what. It's not fair, but life's unfair, and you were dealt a bad hand. Dating's going to be really hard for you, period. Those who tell you "you're fine, you just need a better attitude!" Sorry, but it's not true. A better attitude will help you, a little, but you're still screwed. There's no magic post here that will substantially improve your dating. Advice like "shorten your message length" will again, maybe help a little tiny bit, but don't expect your results to dramatically change. Sorry, but I just want you to have some realistic expectations.

Now, the way I see it, you have a few options:

1. Give up on dating. Nothing wrong with this. Plenty of people have great lives without dating.
2. Continue doing what you're doing, and hope to get lucky eventually. You're going to be frustrated and face a lot of rejection, but once in a long while you'll probably have something go well. It'll mostly be what you've been going through so far though.
3. Work on improving your dating skills as much as possible. You will still be frustrated and still face a ton of rejection, because you were dealt a bad hand, and because that's the nature of dating in general. But, your chances will go up a bit. Maybe your success rate will go from 3% to 6%. It's still bad, but hey it's better than #2. Make no mistake though, this is a long and hard road, and will probably take years. You need to be very dedicated and persist through the bad times.

First, you need to accept your situation. Your posts read like you think you're doing something wrong, and if only you could fix it, your dating life will be so much better, and girls will start making sense. This is not true. You will always get out much less than you put in. You will always struggle. Just accept this. Once you do, decide what you want to do about it.

If you choose #3, if you decide that you can be happy with showing some improvement and getting little bits of success here and there amidst a sea of rejection, I'd be happy to give you some advice. You have to put in the hard work though.

I accept the fact I'm short, there's nothing I can do on that. I knew it would make things difficult, I accept that, but it shouldn't make things impossible. I understand women want a "taller" mate, fine I get that, especially with girls taller than me, I'm not shooting for the stars going after 5'9+ Amazon women. I filter out my matches from 4'11-5'4.

I don't think that I'm physically hideous, I'm just me, I'm normal I guess. I never really had a women compliment me on how I look, so perhaps that clouds my judgment a bit. Well, I have, but it's been ages since that has occurred. Even on the dates I'd go on, I'd compliment her, and all I'd get back is an "Uh huh, okay, I know" they can't even reciprocate the kind gesture.

1. I don't want to be alone, so I can't give up completely
2. Sometimes you need luck...sometimes just being at the right place at the right time can work wonders.
3. Improve my dating skills how so? I've joined a gym recently to at least put in the effort to get into better shape, thinking that might give me a bit more confidence. If you've read most of my posts here you see I don't drink at all, so that does put a damper in places I can meet people.

I understand it won't be easy, but if you saw the majority of the girls I message you'd think just blind luck would have one of them respond. Let's just say I'm quite lax on what I find attractive and would give anyone the time of a day depending on their personality and similar interests.

 

[stn]

Let's just say I'm quite lax on what I find attractive and would give anyone the time of a day depending on their personality and similar interests.

This part sticks out a bit. You sound very desperate, I think that's affecting your approach AND your response to things. And it shows: you tend to vent your frustration on here a lot after things happen to you on OKC. Your approach to online dating is also too logical, don't expect anything just because of something else that has happened (ex. expecting a reply after you're rated highly).

Many people who use online dating have no attention span, act randomly, and aren't even there necessarily for finding someone. Try not to stress over it, it literally happens to all of us. FWIW, I know a girl who has been the subject of harassment on there. All kinds of shit can happen. Here's what I would do to improve your life:

1. You started the gym. Continue it and work hard (I'm in the same boat).

2. Focus not on your weaknesses but on your strengths. Okay, you're 5'4. Stop mentioning it to yourself. The golden rule is always be positive. If you can't, fake it until its real. Just stop reminding yourself that you're short.

3. GO MAKE FRIENDS!!! This is crucial. If you don't have friends then you probably won't last long in a relationship either. You need to learn to socialize even with guys before you go for girls.

I'd recommend meeting people at the gym. Ask someone to help spot you with an exercise, then socialize from there. I'd say its better for you to make friends than seek relationships at this point in time. Why don't you take initiative and try to organize a GAF meetup for your area? Make a post in the OT, see what happens. Costs you nothing, takes a few minutes of effort.

 

[kame-sennin]

This part sticks out a bit. You sound very desperate, I think that's affecting your approach AND your response to things.

...Yea. He took the advice on shortening his messages, but the aura of desperation still comes through in his posts. Women pick up on these things; society segregates the genders from an early age and encourages girls to be far more social than boys. Because of bullshit gender roles, most women just have way more experience in social situations than men do. If you're desperate, women will notice and pass on you. And btw, there's nothing wrong with being desperate. We all need social interaction, love, and sex. Deprive anyone of it, and they'll become desperate. I broke up with my girlfriend back in October and I often feel that way. You just have to accept your situation and learn how to temporarily put aside those feelings of desperation. I guess it's like the Buddhist concept of detachment.

Also, let's nip this short business in the bud. I'm 5'5 and I've had a date on okc (and set up more with other women). Being short is a handicap, but it's not fucking fatal. Buy a pair of boots and add an inch to your height in your profile. And while you're at it, message a bunch of tall women. It'll teach you how to have fun with messaging since you're not expecting anything out of it. And even if you get no responses, you'll learn what works and what doesn't by seeing which women bother to check out your profile. If you get a look, but they pass when they see your height, at least you know you've caught their interest.

 

[Malvingt2]

He should chill. I do average per week 82 visitors and I can count with my palm how many messages I got. I just take it easy.. It is what it is.

 

[electricshake]

Deactivated my profile today. Been seeing someone for about 6 weeks now, and I know he deactivated his profile a while ago but today I felt ready to do the same. I like him more every time I see him. He seems like a great guy and we get on really well, though I'm a bit wary as I've been hurt a lot in the past - I told him this and he was really understanding.


Also not all girls are after tall guys. A few inches taller than me is perfect.

 

[peteykirch]

He should chill. I do average per week 82 visitors and I can count with my palm how many messages I got. I just take it easy.. It is what it is.

I live no more than a hour from NYC and Philly and I'm lucky to get 18 visitors a week.

 

[Malvingt2]

I live no more than a hour from NYC and Philly and I'm lucky to get 18 visitors a week.

I do the boost thing to promote me.

 

[peteykirch]

...Yea. He took the advice on shortening his messages, but the aura of desperation still comes through in his posts. Women pick up on these things; society segregates the genders from an early age and encourages girls to be far more social than boys. Because of bullshit gender roles, most women just have way more experience in social situations than men do. If you're desperate, women will notice and pass on you. And btw, there's nothing wrong with being desperate. We all need social interaction, love, and sex. Deprive anyone of it, and they'll become desperate. I broke up with my girlfriend back in October and I often feel that way. You just have to accept your situation and learn how to temporarily put aside those feelings of desperation. I guess it's like the Buddhist concept of detachment.

Also, let's nip this short business in the bud. I'm 5'5 and I've had a date on okc (and set up more with other women). Being short is a handicap, but it's not fucking fatal. Buy a pair of boots and add an inch to your height in your profile. And while you're at it, message a bunch of tall women. It'll teach you how to have fun with messaging since you're not expecting anything out of it. And even if you get no responses, you'll learn what works and what doesn't by seeing which women bother to check out your profile. If you get a look, but they pass when they see your height, at least you know you've caught their interest.

I'm not saying being short makes it impossible, I'm saying it makes it more difficult. Which I don't think anyone disagrees about.

I'm not going to buy boots or lifts, that's just being fake, and I don't want that. I'm me, and that's not going to change. I'm not trying to look for a cheap cop out of being someone I'm not.

 

[potam]

I'm not saying being short makes it impossible, I'm saying it makes it more difficult. Which I don't think anyone disagrees about.

I'm not going to buy boots or lifts, that's just being fake, and I don't want that. I'm me, and that's not going to change. I'm not trying to look for a cheap cop out of being someone I'm not.

I have no idea what I'm talking about, so take this with a grain of salt:

99% of the people on these sites are fake. I mean, they're real people but most of the stuff they post about is bullshit. Take a trip to Europe when you were in HS? "I love traveling, especially Europe!" Go camping with your friends once? "Nothing I love more than being out in the wilderness with good friends." I won't post more examples since I'm not creative and at work, but I think you should get the idea.

The point I'm trying to make is that by not stretching the truth a little bit, you're only hurting yourself. I'm boring as fuck on paper. Seriously, all I do is work, school, browse the internet, and play video games (shit, I don't even play enough to even make that interesting). In the end, though, girls don't really give a fuck about it.

Think of it this way (and this is a horrible metaphor): you may be the greatest surgeon in the world, but you can't make that initial incision, so no one knows. So, what do you do? Get someone else to make the first cut, then go in and kick ass, and no one will even care about the fact that you can't cut someone open.

 

[vicissitudes]

I accept the fact I'm short, there's nothing I can do on that. I knew it would make things difficult, I accept that, but it shouldn't make things impossible. I understand women want a "taller" mate, fine I get that, especially with girls taller than me, I'm not shooting for the stars going after 5'9+ Amazon women. I filter out my matches from 4'11-5'4.

I don't think that I'm physically hideous, I'm just me, I'm normal I guess. I never really had a women compliment me on how I look, so perhaps that clouds my judgment a bit. Well, I have, but it's been ages since that has occurred. Even on the dates I'd go on, I'd compliment her, and all I'd get back is an "Uh huh, okay, I know" they can't even reciprocate the kind gesture.

1. I don't want to be alone, so I can't give up completely
2. Sometimes you need luck...sometimes just being at the right place at the right time can work wonders.
3. Improve my dating skills how so? I've joined a gym recently to at least put in the effort to get into better shape, thinking that might give me a bit more confidence. If you've read most of my posts here you see I don't drink at all, so that does put a damper in places I can meet people.

I understand it won't be easy, but if you saw the majority of the girls I message you'd think just blind luck would have one of them respond. Let's just say I'm quite lax on what I find attractive and would give anyone the time of a day depending on their personality and similar interests.

Okay, you seem to have a pretty good attitude so I'll expand a bit more on what I was talking about.

First, let's talk about accepting your situation. I'll reference a few of your posts:

I can't stand the women who talk talk talk, and then randomly disappear.

I mean if you lose interest or something comes up, just tell me.

Don't fall off the face of the Earth.

Let's start with this. Women will talk and talk and randomly disappear. Many women do this. Especially if you're not as good with women, but even if you are they will still do this. Just accept it. You are sitting here wishing that they would act differently. That's a complete waste of your time. That's time you could be using to pursue other women. Not only that, but it's not a good color on you either, as others in this thread will tell you.

I just find it confusing.

Someone contacts you, you respond, and then it's a waiting game.

It's just frustrating to see someone on at 8AM, then 12PM, then 3PM, then 5PM.

I'm the sort who even if I'm busy I'd send out a quick message and then a well thought out one later when I'm free.

Again, you wish other women would behave like you would. Well, the reality is, they don't, and they never will. How you would behave in their situation has ZERO effect on how they behave. It doesn't matter. Furthermore, you want to know why the hell they do not respond back, and it drives you nuts. However, you need to keep your eyes on the prize. Your ultimate goal is to get a girl to message you back, then go on a date, etc. Figuring out why someone didn't message you back will not help you with this. It doesn't matter why a certain girl didn't respond. It's not going to help you with the next girl because they're all different. Focus on getting future results, not dwell on past failures.

(incidentally, as you get more experience and better with women, you will better understand many of the cases puzzling you right now, but we're not there yet. For now don't worry about it)

Accept that women will flake on you, stop responding for no reason, or run away from you in the middle of a date. Worrying and complaining about it is a waste of your time and it hurts your attitude. Stopping this behavior is the first step to improving your dating skills.

Now, let's take a look at the big picture. You generally have two ways of meeting women - online and in person. What works better depends on the person. I would estimate that what matters most to women in either case looks like this:

Online
1. Looks / Height
…
…
2. Your message
3. Job / money / etc.
4. Your profile

In person
1. Your charm/confidence/social skills
2. Looks
3. Height

Some people look better "on paper." They're decent looking, they are tall, they have a good income, and they write reasonably well, but they're either shy, lack personable skills, or don't go out much. Online dating is much better for these people.

Let's look at your situation. If we look at online dating, you can't really improve your looks/height much, but you can improve your message and your profile. However, those two things don't matter that much, so there's not much room to grow.

Now, let's talk a look at meeting girls in person: you can't change #3, and you can slightly improve on #2, but you can certainly dramatically improve on #1. There is a lot more room to grow here. The bad news is #1 takes a lot of time and hard work to improve, so you're tempted to just stick to online dating. After all, it's much easier to sit behind a computer and message girls and not get a message back, than to talk to one in person and have her tell you face-to-face that she doesn't like you. However, you will be able to see more improvement here, if you really work at it. There's another silver lining: you get experience much faster by talking to girls in person than messaging profiles online. If you get much better at talking to girls in person, this will also help you with your online skills a bit. If you get much better at online dating, it won't really help with your in-person skills.

As I understand it, you think talking to girls in person is impossible because you don't drink, because you're worried about alcoholism. I'm going to make a contentious suggestion: consider drinking anyway. Try limiting yourself to one or two beers a night, enough to get a bit of a buzz going. This will help you relax and improve your interactions, and help gain more social acceptance. It will open doors to a lot more activities and opportunities. I don't pretend to be knowledgeable about alcoholism, and I understand risking it is not desirable, but I guess you'll just have to weigh that against how much you want your dating life to not suck.

If you really want to stick to only online dating, this is the best advice I've found on how to get better at it: http://www.girlschase.com/content/how-meet-tons-girls-plenty-fish. But even so, like I said, there's not a lot of room for improvement, and your success with online dating will always be subpar. If you want to really work on meeting girls in person, we can talk more about that. Also feel free to ask if you have specific questions.

 

[peteykirch]

Okay, you seem to have a pretty good attitude so I'll expand a bit more on what I was talking about.

First, let's talk about accepting your situation. I'll reference a few of your posts:



Let's start with this. Women will talk and talk and randomly disappear. Many women do this. Especially if you're not as good with women, but even if you are they will still do this. Just accept it. You are sitting here wishing that they would act differently. That's a complete waste of your time. That's time you could be using to pursue other women. Not only that, but it's not a good color on you either, as others in this thread will tell you.



Again, you wish other women would behave like you would. Well, the reality is, they don't, and they never will. How you would behave in their situation has ZERO effect on how they behave. It doesn't matter. Furthermore, you want to know why the hell they do not respond back, and it drives you nuts. However, you need to keep your eyes on the prize. Your ultimate goal is to get a girl to message you back, then go on a date, etc. Figuring out why someone didn't message you back will not help you with this. It doesn't matter why a certain girl didn't respond. It's not going to help you with the next girl because they're all different. Focus on getting future results, not dwell on past failures.

(incidentally, as you get more experience and better with women, you will better understand many of the cases puzzling you right now, but we're not there yet. For now don't worry about it)

Accept that women will flake on you, stop responding for no reason, or run away from you in the middle of a date. Worrying and complaining about it is a waste of your time and it hurts your attitude. Stopping this behavior is the first step to improving your dating skills.

Now, let's take a look at the big picture. You generally have two ways of meeting women - online and in person. What works better depends on the person. I would estimate that what matters most to women in either case looks like this:

Online
1. Looks / Height
…
…
2. Your message
3. Job / money / etc.
4. Your profile

In person
1. Your charm/confidence/social skills
2. Looks
3. Height

Some people look better "on paper." They're decent looking, they are tall, they have a good income, and they write reasonably well, but they're either shy, lack personable skills, or don't go out much. Online dating is much better for these people.

Let's look at your situation. If we look at online dating, you can't really improve your looks/height much, but you can improve your message and your profile. However, those two things don't matter that much, so there's not much room to grow.

Now, let's talk a look at meeting girls in person: you can't change #3, and you can slightly improve on #2, but you can certainly dramatically improve on #1. There is a lot more room to grow here. The bad news is #1 takes a lot of time and hard work to improve, so you're tempted to just stick to online dating. After all, it's much easier to sit behind a computer and message girls and not get a message back, than to talk to one in person and have her tell you face-to-face that she doesn't like you. However, you will be able to see more improvement here, if you really work at it. There's another silver lining: you get experience much faster by talking to girls in person than messaging profiles online. If you get much better at talking to girls in person, this will also help you with your online skills a bit. If you get much better at online dating, it won't really help with your in-person skills.

As I understand it, you think talking to girls in person is impossible because you don't drink, because you're worried about alcoholism. I'm going to make a contentious suggestion: consider drinking anyway. Try limiting yourself to one or two beers a night, enough to get a bit of a buzz going. This will help you relax and improve your interactions, and help gain more social acceptance. It will open doors to a lot more activities and opportunities. I don't pretend to be knowledgeable about alcoholism, and I understand risking it is not desirable, but I guess you'll just have to weigh that against how much you want your dating life to not suck.

If you really want to stick to only online dating, this is the best advice I've found on how to get better at it: . But even so, like I said, there's not a lot of room for improvement, and your success with online dating will always be subpar. If you want to really work on meeting girls in person, we can talk more about that. Also feel free to ask if you have specific questions.

The bit about women leaving randomly, it's frustrating as hell, especially when it's coming from women who have in their profiles they hate men who play mind games and what not. I've slowly came to the conclusion women who put they hate mind games are the ones who play them the most.

I realize it's a bad idea expecting someone to message ASAP, that's just me. It'd be nice to find someone along those lines, but I got to accept that most likely won't happen. If they get to it, they get to it. Lesson learned.

I strongly believe that I'm one of the people who is better suited to online dating. There are things I wish I could've done different, mainly being able to dorm at college. I think losing out on that experience really cost me some real life learning experiences. To get as far as I did in the Academia field, it sort of stunted my social life, now I'm done with school and I'm left out in the cold completely clueless. It didn't help that growing up my parents were overly protective, and really shunned me from going out and meeting people.

I don't think it's impossible because I don't drink, I just think it hampers the selection pool. I tried the bar scene, while not drinking and it was an unmitigated disaster. Women didn't like a random guy hitting on them, offering to buy them a drink as I wasn't drinking anything. I assumed they had this idea I was trying to get them drunk and have my way with them.

I truly believe/hope that there's hope that I don't need to drink to have success dating. I mean it works for the Mormons, not drinking that is. It's just something that at this point I'm not willing to chance. It was in my Uncles mid 20s when they started drinking, and that led to alcoholism, and then for one of them that led to hardcore drug use that pretty much alienated him from my family.

I've tried going to places where I know a lot of things about, i.e. books. I have two degrees in literature, so I thought maybe going to Barnes and Noble might be a decent idea, especially if I saw a lady browsing books that I also enjoyed. It worked alright, but it didn't lead anywhere outside of them asking me for suggestions on what to read. A few times I tried to turn it to, well I can tell you much more over coffee or w/e and it seemed every time they told me they were seeing someone already.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

The bit about women leaving randomly, it's frustrating as hell, especially when it's coming from women who have in their profiles they hate men who play mind games and what not. I've slowly came to the conclusion women who put they hate mind games are the ones who play them the most.

That's the thing: you think they're doing it on purpose. In most cases they're probably not. I stop talking to really attractive, great women all the time because I just plain forget about them or I have someone else I'm more interested in. It's not a game. It's just how it is.

 

[vicissitudes]

The bit about women leaving randomly, it's frustrating as hell, especially when it's coming from women who have in their profiles they hate men who play mind games and what not. I've slowly came to the conclusion women who put they hate mind games are the ones who play them the most.

Well, most of what women put on their profile you need to take with a grain of salt. For example, when a woman says she is not looking for a casual hookup, it just means she doesn't want to look like she's easy. Put yourself in her position: if she wrote in her profile that she's looking for a casual hookup, what kind of messages do you think she'll get? Tons of sleazy messages from mediocre guys looking for an easy lay. Even if she is looking for a casual hookup, why would she put that in her profile?

Now for the ones who say they don't like men who play mind games. This does not mean not playing mind games will attract them. This one's a bit more complicated, but in many instances, they are women who really enjoy attention. To them, there are generally two kinds of men: those who will respond to their every text, compliment them, pursue them, and those who will be a bit more aloof, pay them less attention, and not respond to them sometimes. The first type they consider "straightforward" and the second type they think are "playing games." In reality, it's probably just that the second type of men are more desirable and better at dating, and thus have more options, and thus don't waste as much time on them. These women enjoy attention from the first type while the second type frustrate them. But, guess which type they respect more? Which type is more appealing?

I strongly believe that I'm one of the people who is better suited to online dating. There are things I wish I could've done different, mainly being able to dorm at college. I think losing out on that experience really cost me some real life learning experiences. To get as far as I did in the Academia field, it sort of stunted my social life, now I'm done with school and I'm left out in the cold completely clueless. It didn't help that growing up my parents were overly protective, and really shunned me from going out and meeting people.

Why do you believe you are better suited to online dating? It's not because you didn't dorm at college. Just because you're clueless now doesn't mean you can't learn. Everyone starts off with no real life experience. Everyone starts off clueless. You'll start a bit later in life but you can learn just like everyone else. There are no inherent reasons why you can only date online. Not to mention, what happens when you get a date from OKC? You still need in-person dating skills/experience.

I don't think it's impossible because I don't drink, I just think it hampers the selection pool. I tried the bar scene, while not drinking and it was an unmitigated disaster. Women didn't like a random guy hitting on them, offering to buy them a drink as I wasn't drinking anything. I assumed they had this idea I was trying to get them drunk and have my way with them.

I truly believe/hope that there's hope that I don't need to drink to have success dating. I mean it works for the Mormons, not drinking that is. It's just something that at this point I'm not willing to chance. It was in my Uncles mid 20s when they started drinking, and that led to alcoholism, and then for one of them that led to hardcore drug use that pretty much alienated him from my family.

I've tried going to places where I know a lot of things about, i.e. books. I have two degrees in literature, so I thought maybe going to Barnes and Noble might be a decent idea, especially if I saw a lady browsing books that I also enjoyed. It worked alright, but it didn't lead anywhere outside of them asking me for suggestions on what to read. A few times I tried to turn it to, well I can tell you much more over coffee or w/e and it seemed every time they told me they were seeing someone already.

If you don't want to drink, that's your decision and I respect that. It will make your dating life much harder though, as you have already discovered. Mormons are a bit different because they mostly exclusively date other Mormons through Church, and many would be pretty hopeless trying to date in the real world. Unfortunately I can't help you much with meeting women at bookstores or supermarkets, because I haven't seen much success in these areas myself, nor have the people I know. That's why I don't recommend these methods.

There is another avenue that can produce decent results, and that's a network of friends. You can meet some great women who are more agreeable if you meet them through a friend. There are two hurdles with this approach:

1. Like many things in life, success breeds success. If you already have a strong network of friends, it's easier to make more friends. However, if you are just starting out, it's very hard to start from scratch and build a network from that.
2. Many of the good ways I've found in making friends is through drinking.

Some ideas are:

- Meetup groups
- Local sports activities (often found through the above)
- Volunteering
- Part-time jobs

It's very hit-or-miss though. You'll need to persist through sheer volume.

Hope this helps.

 

[peteykirch]

Well, most of what women put on their profile you need to take with a grain of salt. For example, when a woman says she is not looking for a casual hookup, it just means she doesn't want to look like she's easy. Put yourself in her position: if she wrote in her profile that she's looking for a casual hookup, what kind of messages do you think she'll get? Tons of sleazy messages from mediocre guys looking for an easy lay. Even if she is looking for a casual hookup, why would she put that in her profile?

Now for the ones who say they don't like men who play mind games. This does not mean not playing mind games will attract them. This one's a bit more complicated, but in many instances, they are women who really enjoy attention. To them, there are generally two kinds of men: those who will respond to their every text, compliment them, pursue them, and those who will be a bit more aloof, pay them less attention, and not respond to them sometimes. The first type they consider "straightforward" and the second type they think are "playing games." In reality, it's probably just that the second type of men are more desirable and better at dating, and thus have more options, and thus don't waste as much time on them. These women enjoy attention from the first type while the second type frustrate them. But, guess which type they respect more? Which type is more appealing?



Why do you believe you are better suited to online dating? It's not because you didn't dorm at college. Just because you're clueless now doesn't mean you can't learn. Everyone starts off with no real life experience. Everyone starts off clueless. You'll start a bit later in life but you can learn just like everyone else. There are no inherent reasons why you can only date online. Not to mention, what happens when you get a date from OKC? You still need in-person dating skills/experience.



If you don't want to drink, that's your decision and I respect that. It will make your dating life much harder though, as you have already discovered. Mormons are a bit different because they mostly exclusively date other Mormons through Church, and many would be pretty hopeless trying to date in the real world. Unfortunately I can't help you much with meeting women at bookstores or supermarkets, because I haven't seen much success in these areas myself, nor have the people I know. That's why I don't recommend these methods.

There is another avenue that can produce decent results, and that's a network of friends. You can meet some great women who are more agreeable if you meet them through a friend. There are two hurdles with this approach:

1. Like many things in life, success breeds success. If you already have a strong network of friends, it's easier to make more friends. However, if you are just starting out, it's very hard to start from scratch and build a network from that.
2. Many of the good ways I've found in making friends is through drinking.

Some ideas are:

- Meetup groups
- Local sports activities (often found through the above)
- Volunteering
- Part-time jobs

It's very hit-or-miss though. You'll need to persist through sheer volume.

Hope this helps.

I feel that I'm better suited for online dating, because I'm god awful at approaching people. At least online I can take baby steps, and go at my own pace. I don't have to worry about making that immediate lasting impact from the get go. I just have to do enough to keep her interested in talking and seeing where it goes.

Everyone starts off with no experience, fair enough.

However growing up I never really had any friends, all through college all I did was go to class and work, go to class and work. That's pretty much how I was able to graduate with my Doctorate in Education by the time I was 25. I have next to no social network, all I have is myself, and random people on internet forums.

I never went to any parties, I never was invited out anywhere, I was always the one people whom I thought were my friends would tell me after the fact that I should've been at the party I would've enjoyed it, but they never would've offered me an invite in the first place.

I understand that yes with online dating you'll need people skills for when you finally meet in person. That I have no issue with, because I've built up enough information about that person and vice versa.

I realized my comparison was aloof because Mormons and other Religions who don't drink, rely on dating their own contingent. It was more or less me stating that not every group of people need to drink to meet and date people.

If you read through this topic before, I tried signing up for cooking classes and that never worked out well. Legitimately one of the classes there was an odd number of people and I was the one left out and forced to cook alone. That was a pretty awful feeling, especially when the instructor asked everyone would anyone be willing to be a group of three, and there were no takers.

 

[stn]

@peteykirch

I think we should approach this differently. I've noticed too much of a pattern in what goes down. You post a recent event, some of us comment, you give reasons why you can't do something different, and it goes on.

I respect the fact that you are open with your situation and aware, I think you have a good attitude. I really want to see you succeed. What I think you need to do is rock your foundation. So, I propose something different.

Question: Let's pretend online dating won't get you anywhere. Ever. What are you prepared to do in light of that?

 

[peteykirch]

I think we should approach this differently. I've noticed too much of a pattern in what goes down. You post a recent event, some of us comment, you give reasons why you can't do something different, and it goes on.

I respect the fact that you are open with your situation and aware, I think you have a good attitude. I really want to see you succeed. What I think you need to do is rock your foundation. So, I propose something different.

Question: Let's pretend online dating won't get you anywhere. Ever. What are you prepared to do in light of that?

Yes I bring up past events but it doesn't mean I write them off completely.

Well, I guess I would be forced to go out into the world and find someone. Perhaps I'd get lucky and find someone at the school I'd be teaching at shortly, but work place relationships never seem to go well for anyone.

 

[stn]

From the bottom of my heart, I think the best thing would be for you to pretend OKC doesn't exist. You need to force yourself to socialize in the real world. Once you gain that skill you'll appreciate yourself more, you'll be more comfortable in your own skin.

The funny thing is, many people out there don't even judge people or care to. You're shy because you're insecure and think you'll be judged. Honestly though, most people won't even care to judge you. Its all in your head, dude.

 

[peteykirch]

From the bottom of my heart, I think the best thing would be for you to pretend OKC doesn't exist. You need to force yourself to socialize in the real world. Once you gain that skill you'll appreciate yourself more, you'll be more comfortable in your own skin.

The funny thing is, many people out there don't even judge people or care to. You're shy because you're insecure and think you'll be judged. Honestly though, most people won't even care to judge you. Its all in your head, dude.

Well right now I'm talking to 4 different women on OKC.

One I went out on two dates, I thought things were going well, but I tend to overthink things.

I'm messaging 3 other girls at the moment, so I don't know where this is going.

 

[megamerican]

Lol, very attractive girl messages me out of the blue says she is in to me and hopes we can get to know each other better. So I talk with her for about a week and get nothing but almost instant one word literal responses to questions. I figure she is bored with chatting so I ask if she wants to meet up, and then she says maybe in a few weeks. What the fuck?

I'm honestly am at a loss, I don't really know how or if I should respond to that.

 

[vicissitudes]

I feel that I'm better suited for online dating, because I'm god awful at approaching people. At least online I can take baby steps, and go at my own pace. I don't have to worry about making that immediate lasting impact from the get go. I just have to do enough to keep her interested in talking and seeing where it goes.

Everyone starts off with no experience, fair enough.

However growing up I never really had any friends, all through college all I did was go to class and work, go to class and work. That's pretty much how I was able to graduate with my Doctorate in Education by the time I was 25. I have next to no social network, all I have is myself, and random people on internet forums.

I never went to any parties, I never was invited out anywhere, I was always the one people whom I thought were my friends would tell me after the fact that I should've been at the party I would've enjoyed it, but they never would've offered me an invite in the first place.

I understand that yes with online dating you'll need people skills for when you finally meet in person. That I have no issue with, because I've built up enough information about that person and vice versa.

I realized my comparison was aloof because Mormons and other Religions who don't drink, rely on dating their own contingent. It was more or less me stating that not every group of people need to drink to meet and date people.

If you read through this topic before, I tried signing up for cooking classes and that never worked out well. Legitimately one of the classes there was an odd number of people and I was the one left out and forced to cook alone. That was a pretty awful feeling, especially when the instructor asked everyone would anyone be willing to be a group of three, and there were no takers.

I would tend to disagree with the bolded. I've heard numerous stories from women about how they talked to a guy online and he seemed fine, but then they met up and the guy was weird/awkward, or there was no chemistry. Your experiences may differ.

I can sympathize with how hard it is to make friends. But unless you want to live the rest of your life without a social circle, then you have to start sometime. Might as well be now. I vaguely remember your cooking class story, and that's rough, but not entirely uncommon. For every 10 activities/events you try, 8 or 9 or those will be disappointing, but it's the 1 or 2 where you meet a couple of decent people and gets you socializing more that makes it worth it. It's really up to you if you want to put yourself out there and face those odds.

If you really believe online dating is the best approach for you, then more power to you. I don't think I can help you too much there though, just keep at it. If you ever want to try something different though, the people in here are happy to help.

Well right now I'm talking to 4 different women on OKC.

One I went out on two dates, I thought things were going well, but I tend to overthink things.

I'm messaging 3 other girls at the moment, so I don't know where this is going.

Cool, sounds good. Let us know how it goes.

 

[A Human Becoming]

I support assertive women sending the first message, but they should still do better than this:

 

[Jimothy]

The best was when a girl messaged me asking me to tell her about myself. I was like, isn't that what my profile is for? Girls can get away with shitty messages way more than guys can and they exploit the shit out of that.

 

[DiscoPower]

Okay, so is OKCupid pretty much regarded as the best dating website currently (because of their unique questionnaire/profiling system)?
And how does it compare for you Cupid vets compared to just meeting people in real life?

 

[FelixOrion]

Okay, so is OKCupid pretty much regarded as the best dating website currently (because of their unique questionnaire/profiling system)?
And how does it compare for you Cupid vets compared to just meeting people in real life?

Its probably the best free site, at least.

 

[forknknife]

I support assertive women sending the first message, but they should still do better than this:

That's a nice message from her, what's wrong?

 

[Tsukumo]

That's a nice message from her, what's wrong?

Same impression. This is the type of girl people say they look for on dating sites: polite, not testing for dominance, summing up her profile for you instead of just sending a message with a smile or just visiting your page without invisibility filter on. No BS whatsoever.

@ A human becoming
if this doesn't work for you because of looks, no prob, but there's no issue with her personality or her message here. This isn't assertive in the least. She probably spent an afternoon thinking about what to write to not look needy, slutty, or psycho. This is genuine interest.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

That's a nice message from her, what's wrong?

She's boring.

 

[stn]

@peteykirch

Just a recent experience of mine, wanted to show you that you're not the only one. So, a girl messages me. I reply since her message is funny and surprising. I notice she volunteers at an animal centre. We exchange about 3 messages worth of names and jokes. I then ask if she has dogs since I do. She has not responded since.

So, why is this relevant? Well, her profile is littered with nothing but animals, good humor, and a sense of intellect. She doesn't seem shallow or a ditz. And yet, she has stopped replying likely because she found me boring. Which is okay, that's her right; in fact, I noticed a few girls sometimes would chat and then abruptly stop.

Chances are she was/is just looking for a less intelligent guy who just wants fun/sex. Which would be the complete opposite of what her profile makes her out to be. So, what's the point? Nothing is at it seems in online dating. Assume nothing.

For the sake of social experiment, next time I get messaged by any girl I'm gonna go straight to sexual talk. We'll see what happens...

@A Human Becoming

Dude, you're being unrealistic. Her message is fine, she took the time to write a few things and is trying to be interesting. Would you feel better getting "hey" or "hey there" for the 2,000th time? Because that's what I usually get, lol.

 

[Manarola]

Anyone else had trouble getting dates recently? I don't know I was getting a lot in the summer but maybe it's the holidays? Not only that I'm noticing a lot less people visiting my profile than last time around.

 

[Manarola]

Lol, very attractive girl messages me out of the blue says she is in to me and hopes we can get to know each other better. So I talk with her for about a week and get nothing but almost instant one word literal responses to questions. I figure she is bored with chatting so I ask if she wants to meet up, and then she says maybe in a few weeks. What the fuck?

I'm honestly am at a loss, I don't really know how or if I should respond to that.

Honestly, probably was a catfish.

 

[A Human Becoming]

That's a nice message from her, what's wrong?

Same impression. This is the type of girl people say they look for on dating sites: polite, not testing for dominance, summing up her profile for you instead of just sending a message with a smile or just visiting your page without invisibility filter on. No BS whatsoever.
@ A human becoming
if this doesn't work for you because of looks, no prob, but there's no issue with her personality or her message here. This isn't assertive in the least. She probably spent an afternoon thinking about what to write to not look needy, slutty, or psycho. This is genuine interest.

@A Human Becoming

Dude, you're being unrealistic. Her message is fine, she took the time to write a few things and is trying to be interesting. Would you feel better getting "hey" or "hey there" for the 2,000th time? Because that's what I usually get, lol.

It's a very boring message. It mostly reiterates what's in her profile and doesn't attempt to make conversation. 25-year-old female? Sounds like a classified ad. It's halfhearted interest, not genuine.

 

[stn]

Its boring, yes, but is still not bad. I think her interest is genuine, she just sucks at being funny/witty/different. Like I said, its muuuuuuuch better than "hey there" x 1,000. Also, I take back the story I wrote above. Girl ended up replying, I was wrong.

And finally, the "dumb POF/OKC moment of the day": some girl who "wants to meet me" has this in her profile: "if you have no pics or no Facebook I'm not interested. Some people on here don't look like their pics."

She has no photo at all, lol.

 

[Trickster]

Anyone know what looks like if you get blocked by a user on okcupid?

Girl I've been talking to stopped showing up on my match searches, and her pictures are gone/not being shown anymore. Can still send a message to her though

 

[Oblivion]

For some of you down on OKC, let this post help turn that frown upside down.

So, I contacted this one chick a whole month ago, and didn't hear from her, so naturally, being that it was several weeks later assumed she wasn't interested and totally forgot about her. To my surprise, I finally get a response back from her a few days ago. She apologized and said she was out of the country for a while (whether one buys that excuse or not, it doesn't matter since she's pretty hot). So we exchange a couple more and now we're set to meet up this weekend.

But it gets even better. Some other chick also replied back and we're also supposed to meet up this weekend.

The point being is that I've had some really long periods where OKC was practically useless. But, given enough time, your struggles eventually bear fruit. These two look to be the first pair of attractive gals I'll be meeting up with since June. So, yeah it took me a good while, but I did eventually get results. So just keep it up, boys. Be persistent!

 

[Smiley90]

Most likely she had dates set up with other guys that didn't work out, but thought you were interesting. Better to ignore you for a while and write back later than to write "i'm trying to see if it works out with other guys, I'll get back to you in a month!" And honestly, nothing wrong with that IMHO.

 

[Rollo Tomasi]

After deactivating my profile a few months ago due to general displeasure with the entire online dating scene, I decided to create an all new one last weekend. I was pleasantly surprised to receive a ton of "such and such likes" you notifications and apparently 16 people have chosen me right now on Quickmatch. But anyway, here's the real reason I'm posting.

The other day me and a girl both liked each other through Quickmatch, and she sent me a message before I could really even check her profile out. Her profile was pretty cool so I replied and we got to talking. Turns out she worked in the same town as me and was even getting off at 3pm from work that day. She asked if I wanted to get something to drink and of course I said yes. This was a milestone for me as I had only ever really met one girl offline from OKC a couple years ago and that went nowhere.

So we met up for drinks at a local bar. It was the day of Christmas Eve so the bar closed early. She suggested we smoke some bud, of course I was not turning down the offer. We smoked and I proceeded to go drop her off at her mom's house nearby, but then I suggested we get another drink at this bar that was open. We stopped there and took some shots and drank a beer each, then she said she needed to go home. We (or so I though at the time) made tentative plans to hang out tonight after work again. I didn't text her this whole time except for on Xmas day I sent her a "Merry Xmas" text and she did reply back. Now today I sent her a text asking her if we were still on for tonight and she replied back that she forgot it was her "bestie's" birthday and she can't make it tonight. After texting her back "That's fine, have a great time!" she did reply back that she was available to hang out on Sunday. I said I would let her know.

Why are girls so flaky on this site? Ugh.

 

[Rollo Tomasi]

Anyone know what looks like if you get blocked by a user on okcupid?

Girl I've been talking to stopped showing up on my match searches, and her pictures are gone/not being shown anymore. Can still send a message to her though

Pretty sure that means you're blocked, although I could be wrong. Your messages are just going to the vast, empty void.

 

[Oblivion]

Most likely she had dates set up with other guys that didn't work out, but thought you were interesting. Better to ignore you for a while and write back later than to write "i'm trying to see if it works out with other guys, I'll get back to you in a month!" And honestly, nothing wrong with that IMHO.

Heh, yeah that sounds more reasonable (sadly).


So I'm meeting up for coffee with the other chick (the one I met this week). Since this isn't a proper date-date, going in for a kiss bad idea?

 

[Perspicacity]

Anyone know what looks like if you get blocked by a user on okcupid?

Girl I've been talking to stopped showing up on my match searches, and her pictures are gone/not being shown anymore. Can still send a message to her though

If she pulled her pictures down and you have "Only show matches with pictures" checked off then she will not show up.

After deactivating my profile a few months ago due to general displeasure with the entire online dating scene, I decided to create an all new one last weekend. I was pleasantly surprised to receive a ton of "such and such likes" you notifications and apparently 16 people have chosen me right now on Quickmatch. But anyway, here's the real reason I'm posting.

The other day me and a girl both liked each other through Quickmatch, and she sent me a message before I could really even check her profile out. Her profile was pretty cool so I replied and we got to talking. Turns out she worked in the same town as me and was even getting off at 3pm from work that day. She asked if I wanted to get something to drink and of course I said yes. This was a milestone for me as I had only ever really met one girl offline from OKC a couple years ago and that went nowhere.

So we met up for drinks at a local bar. It was the day of Christmas Eve so the bar closed early. She suggested we smoke some bud, of course I was not turning down the offer. We smoked and I proceeded to go drop her off at her mom's house nearby, but then I suggested we get another drink at this bar that was open. We stopped there and took some shots and drank a beer each, then she said she needed to go home. We (or so I though at the time) made tentative plans to hang out tonight after work again. I didn't text her this whole time except for on Xmas day I sent her a "Merry Xmas" text and she did reply back. Now today I sent her a text asking her if we were still on for tonight and she replied back that she forgot it was her "bestie's" birthday and she can't make it tonight. After texting her back "That's fine, have a great time!" she did reply back that she was available to hang out on Sunday. I said I would let her know.

Why are girls so flaky on this site? Ugh.

It sounds fine, calm down.

 

[Rollo Tomasi]

It sounds fine, calm down.

I hope so. But I do wonder if I didn't complement her enough or something. She was very touchy-feely with me but I didn't really reciprocate. Then again we only hung out for a limited time.

I think I'm definitely going to try and see her on Sunday.

 

[Kilrogg]

I hope so. But I do wonder if I didn't complement her enough or something. She was very touchy-feely with me but I didn't really reciprocate. Then again we only hung out for a limited time.

I think I'm definitely going to try and see her on Sunday.

You've got nothing to lose anyway. She wouldn't give you a specific day (especially one that's so close to the previously scheduled date) if she didn't mean to hang out with you. She probably genuinely forgot about her friend's birthday.

 

[Oblivion]

Woo! Got back from my date, and it went wonderfully. Turned out she was hotter than her pictures implied. She wasn't as much of a nerd as I was hoping, but that's not too much of a problem.

All in all, fuck yeah! :rock

 

[Charlie McCarthy]

I hope so. But I do wonder if I didn't complement her enough or something. She was very touchy-feely with me but I didn't really reciprocate. Then again we only hung out for a limited time.

I think I'm definitely going to try and see her on Sunday.

Hmm from reading your first post and this one, I think you may have messed up. Now some girls are just very touchy-feely but she may have been giving you the go ahead the get physical with her. The fact that you didn't reciprocate, could just mean she has thought "next" and moved on. Discerning friendly touching from flirting can be tough so I am not thinking your some pussy for not making a move, but I do think that may have been where you went wrong.

Remember girls on dating sites have tons of options. If she is just looking for sex, not going for it when she was giving the (possible) signals, means she will not see you as the guy she is looking for and go straight to the next guy. This could be one of hundreds of guys messaging her for attention.

Anyway man, I hope I'm wrong, its just when they start flaking, it normally isn't good.

 

[Jimothy]

You've got nothing to lose anyway. She wouldn't give you a specific day (especially one that's so close to the previously scheduled date) if she didn't mean to hang out with you. She probably genuinely forgot about her friend's birthday.

Meh. I've made tentative plans on specific days that resulted in me never hearing from the girl again after the first date. Everything about his post makes it seem like she's pulling a fade on him and isn't interested. I think I developed a sixth sense for this shit after spending a couple months on the site.

 

[Lafiel]

Edit:

*False alarm*

 

[Justagamer80]

The ugliest of the ugly girls here get enough attention to be awarded "replies very selectively", yet the most handsome guys with great personalities have a lot of "no ones contacted them this week". I'm not being shallow here, I'm just pointing out that this online dating concept is fucking ridiculous and not reflective at all of real life. Go out and do some pickup, I did and the results I get doing that is about ten times more effective than online dating.
What a person chooses to write about themselves and chooses to show on a few pics is not at all reflective of what they're like. I know the aim is to get to know people, but people here particularly girls, will look at that shit for 10 seconds and use it to decide whether or not to reply or contact you. Complete and utter bullshit, the only reason online dating exists and is booming is because there are so many fucked up chicks joining just to recieve an ego boost from the infinite number of men who in real life would be too unconfident to even approach them. Online dating will continue to wreak havoc on society feeding the troll women their ego and serving as de-motivator for men who don't realize online is not reflective of real life.
I challenge you all, stop wasting time on this and actually approach women, it's really life changing and eye-opening to see how things actually are.

You come across bitter.

 

[Justagamer80]

What's the normal part?

Waiting for later tonight? Or not responding?

It's normal to be liked or rated highly and not receive a message. I rate women highly and am not interested in messaging them. Don't take it so personal.

 

[Justagamer80]

Some advice for some of the guys here. Stop. Being. So. Serious.

Don't treat this website or any online dating site as the place you're going to find a GF. Just don't. Have fun. Relax. If someone doesn't message you back, so what. It's the equivalent of going to a club/bar asking if a chick wants to talk and she says no and then you get all butthurt. Move on and ask another one.

The way you present yourself on here is how women will see you being in real. Come across as serious and clingy and they will avoid you like the plague because you're most likely 10x worse in real. Just freaking relax and stop taking this seriously.

And with first messages don't turn it into a bio or a book. If they like sports then make a joke about one of the teams they like or say you're a fan too. That's it. If a woman doesn't respond so what. Move on to the next.

 

[StanleyStutters]

Just joined this and POF today. This is my first time joining a dating site, any tips for a newcomer?

 

[potam]

Just joined this and POF today. This is my first time joining a dating site, any tips for a newcomer?

1. Be attractive.
2. Be cool.
3. Don't be ugly.
optional rule 4. Be a girl, disregard other rules.