Support NeoGAF

[Northeastmonk]

Boss LB has 40% on PSN. Idk what that means compared to this. A quick glance and then write an article? I swear this is following the trend with knee jerk reactions. Is it pointless for people to play a game after it’s been out? That number will probably go up over time.

Spoiler

 

[lughnasadh123]

YOU
SHALL NOT
(game)PASS!

 

[SteadyEvo]

I am buying COD every year and haven’t played the last one at all. Preordered Elden ring - same, haven’t played it at all. Same with Judgment and couple other titles. During previous generation, I have preordered, bought physical editions on most of playstation exclusives and played Spider-Man 2h on my PS4 pro, 4 hours of horizon, 2 h ghosts of Tsushima, death stranding 4h, 1h the order, 1h driveclub, 20h GoW, 20h uncharted 4 etc. point I am making is if the game is boring, doesn’t appeal to me I will move to other title that I found more engaging.

Happy for your disposable income. I have the same thing going with Switch games. Metroid Dread and Prime, Triangle Strategy, unopened Origami King, and the list goes on. But I don’t mind buying Nintendo cause it holds or increases in value. I’ll stick with subscriptions for Sony and MS. Exception being Sony releasing something amazing I can’t wait for.

 

[Esppiral]

The game is a piece of shit so no wonder.
Glad it is on game pass so I was able to uninstall it without feeling guilty

 

[Hayabusabruh]

I kicked that fucksr's ass. Wait till they get to the big hair-ball boss.

 

[pasterpl]

Happy for your disposable income. I have the same thing going with Switch games. Metroid Dread and Prime, Triangle Strategy, unopened Origami King, and the list goes on. But I don’t mind buying Nintendo cause it holds or increases in value. I’ll stick with subscriptions for Sony and MS. Exception being Sony releasing something amazing I can’t wait for.

Don’t get me started on my switch collection of never played games that I own. I do the same with steam. Something obviously wrong with me.

 

[Rush2112]

Returnal says hello.

 

[Henry Panic]

Except now those players won't stick with one game. Gamepads strategy is full interest, or partial interest to get people into mtx, dlc or other, and then they'll do the same for another 5 games on game pass per couple months, instead of just one game in that time.

 

[systemr123]

I don't understand what you're trying to say. A measurement Microsoft shares publicly is how any people play a game. They don't share how many downloads it had. The point of game pass is to allow people to play games. You can play a large number of games on game pass without ever downloading them.

Beyond number of people who have played some games I don't know that Microsoft has shared any engagement metrics. We know that some executive bonus targets are tied to subscriber count and they missed those the last couple of years. Outside of those we don't know how Microsoft measures success. What we do know is that the number of people who finish a game isn't a good metric for measuring that because a lot of people don't finish games even when they buy them at retail.

Yes you're right, it doesn't even equal downloads, but more like, started up at least once.

 

[El Pistolero]

I’ve got Gamepass on my pc and I definitely don’t put as much effort into a game when I didn’t “pay” for it.

I suggested once that this new paradigm (subscription services) cheapens the experience, by introducing the ADHD consumption syndrom. Most of the shows/programs I start on Netflix or Amazon, I end up dropping for no reason -provided they are engaging and well made-, other that the fact that something else caught my attention a day or two later...if not in-between episodes.

 

[Thabass]

I beat it, but the first boss is very cheap.

Spoiler: Wo Long Spoils

You think you beat the boss. but then suddenly, OH LOOK THERE'S A WHOLE NEW BOSS TO FACE! If you're going to scare away people from playing a game, false boss wins is one way to do it

 

[Big Baller]

Wo Long to beat?

 

[Spyxos]

But I would also say that this is more because of the game itself than the Gamepass. I have played through all the FromSoftware games. But I only beat the first boss in Nioh 1. I beat the first boss in Nioh 2 and in Wo long it wasn't even enough for the first boss.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

I'm in that 67%. I've only played about 15 min of the game so far.
My game time has been limited since it came out and I've been playing other stuff.

 

[ironmang]

I feel like Gamepass may come with a "renter's mentality" for many people. When you rent you feel much less investment into the product/home and therefore don't feel obligated to invest or "get your money worth" so to speak. In that regard I can see players getting frustrated and feeling no need to invest and just move on. It also may lead to devaluing games and gaming in general.

There are pros of Gamepass but also definitely some cons to it as well

You can try games you may have never played otherwise and stick with the ones you like.

It's supposed to be a fun hobby. Powering through some game you spent $70 on because you don't want to feel like you wasted money is actually not a great feeling. Just look at how many people feel burdened by their backlogs.

Devs still getting paid, GP is profitable, and the subscribers get a great value. Not seeing the cons.

 

[j.k.2021]

That's actually good.

 

[ANDS]

The first stage and first boss are not good; it is one of the worst tutorials I have ever experienced in a vidya game, even more so if you're actually paying attention to combat and NOT the subtitled instructions during the fight. I ended up grinding MORALE level because the fight would just go on and on and on, until I randomly saw on one encounter the Divine Beast meter had filled up.

. . .just a bad fight that if you haven't totally been dialed in to the mechanics of the game (that are just straight up vomited at you through the opening) I can see people bouncing off on (especially if you engage the boss at level 10).

 

[Flutta]

That just shows how you appreciate something when you buy it compared to something you get for ”free”.

Gamepass does not so only effect game sales as whole it even devalues them, it has almost the same effect on games like streaming services has on movies and shows. You either can’t decide what to play and give up or you jump from one game to the other and never give it a real shot.

GP is a curse to gaming simple as that.

 

[Punished Miku]

GP is a curse to gaming simple as that.

That really does simplify it. Thank you for your directness.

 

[Gambit2483]

You can try games you may have never played otherwise and stick with the ones you like.

It's supposed to be a fun hobby. Powering through some game you spent $70 on because you don't want to feel like you wasted money is actually not a great feeling. Just look at how many people feel burdened by their backlogs.

Devs still getting paid, GP is profitable, and the subscribers get a great value. Not seeing the cons.

That's definitely a pro, and like I said there's also cons. There are two cons I can think of.

One is it can potentially devalue games with gamers treating games as throwaway experiences and overlooking a game/franchise they might have otherwise ended up liking just because it didn't grant them immediate satisfaction.

The other is that Gamepass could lead to the drop in physical sales on Xbox which would then lead to the point where developers/publishers would begin to question (or outright refuse) to put their game on the platform without a Gamepass deal. Imagine if ATLUS refused to put Persona series on Xbox unless it was given a Gamepass deal.

 

[ironmang]

That just shows how you appreciate something when you buy it compared to something you get for ”free”.

Gamepass does not so only effect game sales as whole it even devalues them, it has almost the same effect on games like streaming services has on movies and shows. You either can’t decide what to play and give up or you jump from one game to the other and never give it a real shot.

GP is a curse to gaming simple as that.

So? Why is game sales important as long as the devs are getting paid and the service is profitable and affordable? I'm sure album sales have cratered due to music streaming services but the music industry keeps trucking along.

Instead of "appreciate" you could also say someone is "obligated to" something that they paid full price for. Again, go look at how miserable people are when they talk about their backlogs. You might be more likely to beat something you purchased but doesn't mean you're more likely to enjoy it.

 

[poppabk]

33% of how many people, 85% of how many people?
The percentage statistic doesn't really say anything - I will probably give Wo Long a shot on gamepass, I would never have bought it. There is also a good chance I will install it, boot it up and check performance and then not go back to it for months.

 

[BrutalTruth_]

Many of us are still on Atomic Heart which was also on gamepass, I tried Wo Long but Atomic Heart is priority for now.

This thread feels like a jab to Gamepass but I like having a backlog building up with two brand new games in less than a month, and I didn't spend 140+ dollars like others did on different systems.

If anything this just shows how amazing gamepass is.

 

[Jigsaah]

It's safe to say that a major factor here is Wo Long's availability in Xbox Game Pass, with any subscribers free to jump into Team Ninja's new adventure and try it out. There's a good chance that many players will simply bounce off the game and never come back after being knocked around by the challenging first boss, and some may not even have made it that far before deciding the game wasn't for them and giving up. Compare the Xbox numbers to other platforms where the game isn't available as part of a subscription service and there's a huge disparity that backs up this notion — Journey's Beginning sits at a 33% unlock rate on Xbox, compared to a whopping 85% on both PlayStation and Steam, where players have had to buy the game and are therefore naturally more committed to getting through it.

There then follows a pretty steep but steady drop-off in unlocks for the rest of the 17 story-based achievements, gradually falling to just 2% by the time we get to the final story pops — that lower tail end is to be expected when the game has barely been out a week and many will still be working their way through it. As you might expect from a dedicated achievement-hunting community, tracked TrueAchievements players are off to a considerably better start, with roughly half of those with Wo Long on their tags now past the first hurdle. Interestingly, though, TA player unlocks actually dip below the global Xbox level slightly in the mid-to-late-game, before evening out to the same 2% unlock rate as the wider Xbox pool on the last few achievements.

Only 33% of Wo Long Xbox players have beaten the first boss

Wo Long launched into Xbox Game Pass last week, and the first boss fight in Team Ninja's new action-RPG is an already infamous early difficulty spike... so much so that only 33% of Xbox players have beaten it so far.

www.trueachievements.com

Ohhhhh Boy, it's Dark Souls all over again! Cept this game's trash.

 

[ironmang]

That's definitely a pro, and like I said there's also cons. There are two cons I can think of.

One is it can potentially devalue games with gamers treating games as throwaway experiences and overlooking a game/franchise they might have otherwise ended up liking just because it didn't grant them immediate satisfaction.

The other is that Gamepass could lead to the drop in physical sales on Xbox which would then lead to the point where developers/publishers would begin to question (or outright refuse) to put their game on the platform without a Gamepass deal. Imagine if ATLUS refused to put Persona series on Xbox unless it was given a Gamepass deal.

This just doesn't make sense. The more a game costs, the more likely it is to attract people who are already interested in that game, genre, or franchise and will be overlooked by most of the rest.

The last part I don't get either. They're all getting a GP deal. I doubt Sony is putting MLB The Show on GP charity.

 

[BrutalTruth_]

This just doesn't make sense. The more a game costs, the more likely it is to attract people who are already interested in that game, genre, or franchise and will be overlooked by most of the rest.

The last part I don't get either. They're all getting a GP deal. I doubt Sony is putting MLB The Show on GP charity.

Agreed with ya, games like High on Life did not do well sales wise but on GamePass it brought a huge spotlight to it, I would've never tried it if not for GamePass and it actually a fantastic experience and I'm glad I gave it a shot.

That's the opposite of "Devalue" or whatever argument Gambit was trying to make.

I see more Pros than Cons when it comes to GamePass.

 

[Sygma]

Dark souls games are much better than anything team ninja had made. I have beaten every souls style title but i quit Nioh and based on the demo Wo Long is not that great either.

No one is close to FS in terms of quality of their games (not technical quality, lol).

Sounds like a you problem, Ni-oh doesn't even properly start before NG++, and gets fully unleashed in NG++++ with a complete remix of enemy positioning, abyss mode, literal new enemies / elites, new gear sets, new bosses etc etc

But at the core its a looter built around a brilliant and much deeper combat system than anything you'll find in From Software so i call that post bullshit

 

[TGO]

You don't even have to beat him, once you get half his energy down you unleash your bullshit attack and the fights done.

 

[Alebrije]

33%. Saved 60-70.00 bucks....that is the main reason service like GP offers.

 

[Spitfire098]

I have done the same thing with ps extra. Played judgment, kingdom hearts, and death stranding. Didn't even make it to the halfway point before quiting on the games. It's just the nature of subscription services.

 

[Fess]

Only? It’s on a subscription service. Do people here finish all TV shows they start watching as well?

 

[Flutta]

So? Why is game sales important as long as the devs are getting paid and the service is profitable and affordable? I'm sure album sales have cratered due to music streaming services but the music industry keeps trucking along.

Instead of "appreciate" you could also say someone is "obligated to" something that they paid full price for. Again, go look at how miserable people are when they talk about their backlogs. You might be more likely to beat something you purchased but doesn't mean you're more likely to enjoy it.

That’s not how it works. If that was the case everyone would be doing a gamepass equivalent. There’s a reason only MS is going that route they got money to burn and alot of it.

Seruously did you just compare music streaming to games? Y’ll just say anything to make a point even if it make you look foolish. The difference in budget between the two is like night and day let alone the amount of time it takes to make a game compared to a track….

I mean now your just reaching, everyone knows that you give more value to something when you work for it comparing to getting something for free. Even kids knows that. It’s common sense… enjoying something or not is a different topic.

 

[mckmas8808]

I’ve got Gamepass on my pc and I definitely don’t put as much effort into a game when I didn’t “pay” for it.

Thank you for being honest. We need more people on GAF like you.

 

[mckmas8808]

That’s actually much higher than I expected especially for a game like Wo Long which is very untraditional game in a sense on the XBOX. Not going to lie. The first boss for a casual is probably torture.

But why did 85% of people on PS5 and PC beat the first boss?

 

[NickFire]

I watch less than a couple percent of the subscription content I sub to, and play a small percent of games I have access to via subs. So 33% does not sound like a really bad metric to me upon reflection.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

that is pretty high.

 

[Flutta]

I’ve got Gamepass on my pc and I definitely don’t put as much effort into a game when I didn’t “pay” for it.

When someone is not emotionally invested.

 

[Punished Miku]

But why did 85% of people on PS5 and PC beat the first boss?

Probably superior genetics. Xbox is where the trash people play games.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Does this indicate that people who buy the game (vs. those who play through a multi-game subscription service) have a higher engagement rate?

That’s one way of saying Stockholm syndrome.

If we could somehow have completion stats for NES games people used to rent so many years ago. It’d be easier to understand that these stats have a deeper meaning only for those who feel the need to find one, and for very obvious reasons.

It’s absolutely horrible to be able to try a game without paying for it in full, in an age when FOMO, blind hype and YouTube shills dictate which games are good and which aren’t. Horrible, I tell you.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

Im more surprised at the 85% for Playstation.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Yes that's exactly what's happening. You can see the content quality of Netflix going down in spades, same for HBO Max and other services. Bar some excellent programs of course, but most becomes more and more crap yes. I wish it wasn't so. Just look at The Witcher, what a clusterf*ck it's becoming, and then that prologue that's only about being woke etc. And you know what? I guarantee you nobody is watching it, yet they keep making more woke sh*t, and actually keep cancelling top 10 shows all the time.

Which top ten shows are being cancelled in favour of 'woke shit'?

 

[ironmang]

That’s not how it works. If that was the case everyone would be doing a gamepass equivalent. There’s a reason only MS is going that route they got money to burn and alot of it.

Seruously did you just compare music streaming to games? Y’ll just say anything to make a point even if it make you look foolish. The difference in budget between the two is like night and day let alone the amount of time it takes to make a game compared to a track….

I mean now your just reaching, everyone knows that you give more value to something when you work for it comparing to getting something for free. Even kids knows that. It’s common sense… enjoying something or not is a different topic.

Affordable meaning for consumers. And it is profitable, they've already confirmed it.

Save the faux outrage lol. You can get like 95% of all music day 1 through Spotify and nobody is calling music "devalued". Budget, development time, etc is irrelevant. We're talking about distribution which is very similar between both industries with gaming just lagging a bit behind.

What do you mean by "give more value to something"? Like the 5 most popular steam games right now are all free.

Regarding "enjoy", you're the one that brought up "appreciation" so...

 

[Mr Reasonable]

YOU
SHALL NOT
(game)PASS!

I will.

 

[systemr123]

Which top ten shows are being cancelled in favour of 'woke shit'?

Just a small selection here: https://collider.com/best-netflix-shows-canceled-after-one-season/#lsquo-1899-rsquo-2022

 

[reksveks]

Just a small selection here: https://collider.com/best-netflix-shows-canceled-after-one-season/#lsquo-1899-rsquo-2022

Looks like a lot of 'woke' titles personally, particularly like Girlboss.

Not alot of viewership stats also.

 

[systemr123]

Looks like a lot of 'woke' titles personally, particularly like Girlboss.

Not alot of viewership stats also.

Maybe read the text? It states viewer numbers and IMDb ratings for almost every item. Yes I also don’t like much stuff but that’s not the point. 1899 is pretty good btw, certainly worth a view if you’re into horror/suspense.

 

[-tetsuo-]

These fools are the same fools who say they’ve beaten every Souls game including Sekiro.

I swear Gamepass is a curse. If this game had the title ”Dark Souls 4”, people would have give a damn and actually started parrying his unblockable attacks instead of taking the beaten like it’s their highschool bully irl.

Probably because Dark Souls 4 would be a better game than this.

 

[reksveks]

Maybe read the text? It states viewer numbers and IMDb ratings for every item. Yes I also don’t like much stuff but that’s not the point. 1899 is pretty good btw, certainly worth a view if you’re into horror/suspense.

Not alot of viewership stats also.

IMDB ratings aren't viewership stats and it also doesn't mean anything without context, but lets ignore that..

1899 - 79.27m hrs watched + IMDB rating
Uncoupled - IMDB and RT stats
I am not okay with this - IMDB and RT stats
Julie and the phantoms - IMDB rating
Teenage Bounty Hunter - Just favourable reivewers
The Society - Nothing
Spinning Out - IMDB rating
Girlboss - a shit RT rating
The Get Down - IMDB rating
Everything Sucks - IMDB and RT stats.

Please tell me again to read the text.

 

[systemr123]

IMDB ratings aren't viewership stats and it also doesn't mean anything without context, but lets ignore that..

1899 - 79.27m hrs watched + IMDB rating
Uncoupled - IMDB and RT stats
I am not okay with this - IMDB and RT stats
Julie and the phantoms - IMDB rating
Teenage Bounty Hunter - Just favourable reivewers
The Society - Nothing
Spinning Out - IMDB rating
Girlboss - a shit RT rating
The Get Down - IMDB rating
Everything Sucks - IMDB and RT stats.

Please tell me again to read the text.

You think an 8.4 IMDb score for example doesn’t count as quality? IMDb scores are pretty fair in general still and 8.4 describes something as very good to me. Everything above a 7 is at least good even. It’s not like metacritic where an 85 score means a complete failure. And the shows that get cancelled get replaced with mega woke 4.0/5.0 out of 10 new shows

Netflix shares struggle after streamer lost 970,000 subscribers

The scenario is not nearly as catastrophic as Netflix expected, with the embattled streaming giant having prepared to shed two million subscribers.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[reksveks]

You think an 8.4 IMDb score for example doesn’t count as quality? IMDb scores are pretty fair in general still and 8.4 describes something as very good to me. Everything above a 7 is at least good even. It’s not like metacritic where an 85 score means a complete failure. And the shows that get cancelled get replaced with mega woke 4.0/5.0 out of 10 new shows.

Did I talk or mention the quality of the shows?

'Good' shows get cancelled, all the fucking time cause they have shit ratings and the opposite is true.

We did go on a 90 degree tangent, didn't we?