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Onward Christian Soldiers-We Prepare to Fight the Philistines

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KingGondo

Banned
Marines turn to God ahead of anticipated Fallujah battle
Sat Nov 06 2004 09:37:17 ET

NEAR FALLUJAH, Iraq, Nov 6 (AFP) - With US forces massing outside Fallujah, 35 marines swayed to Christian rock music and asked Jesus Christ to protect them in what could be the biggest battle since American troops invaded Iraq last year.

Men with buzzcuts and clad in their camouflage waved their hands in the air, M-16 assault rifles laying beside them, and chanted heavy metal-flavoured lyrics in praise of Christ late Friday in a yellow-brick chapel.

They counted among thousands of troops surrounding the city of Fallujah, seeking solace as they awaited Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi's decision on whether or not to invade Fallujah.

"You are the sovereign. You're name is holy. You are the pure spotless lamb," a female voice cried out on the loudspeakers as the marines clapped their hands and closed their eyes, reflecting on what lay ahead for them.

The US military, with many soldiers coming from the conservative American south and midwest, has deep Christian roots.

In times that fighting looms, many soldiers draw on their evangelical or born-again heritage to help them face the battle.

"It's always comforting. Church attendance is always up before the big push," said First Sergeant Miles Thatford.

"Sometimes, all you've got is God."

Between the service's electric guitar religious tunes, marines stepped up on the chapel's small stage and recited a verse of scripture, meant to fortify them for war.

One spoke of their Old Testament hero, a shepherd who would become Israel's king, battling the Philistines some 3,000 years ago.

"Thus David prevailed over the Philistines," the marine said, reading from scripture, and the marines shouted back "Hoorah, King David," using their signature grunt of approval.

The marines drew parallels from the verse with their present situation, where they perceive themselves as warriors fighting barbaric men opposed to all that is good in the world.

"Victory belongs to the Lord," another young marine read.

Their chaplain, named Horne, told the worshippers they were stationed outside Fallujah to bring the Iraqis "freedom from oppression, rape, torture and murder ... We ask you God to bless us in that effort."

The marines then lined up and their chaplain blessed them with holy oil to protect them.

"God's people would be annointed with oil," the chaplain said, as he lightly dabbed oil on the marines' foreheads.

The crowd then followed him outside their small auditorium for a baptism of about a half-dozen marines who had just found Christ.

The young men lined up and at least three of them stripped down to their shorts.

The three laid down in a rubber dinghy filled with water and the chaplain's assistant, Navy corpsman Richard Vaughn, plunged their heads beneath the surface.

Smiling, Vaughn baptised them "in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit."

Dripping wet, Corporal Keith Arguelles beamed after his baptism.

"I just wanted to make sure I did this before I headed into the fight," he said on the military base not far from the city of Fallujah.


That's right--the insurgents have no cause for complaint at all--they're just evil, barbaric Philistines.
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
NEAR FALLUJAH, Iraq, Nov 6 (AFP) - With US forces massing outside Fallujah, 35 marines swayed to Christian rock music and asked Jesus Christ to protect them in what could be the biggest battle since American troops invaded Iraq last year.

plz, lets not add more fuel to the fire here guys.
 

KingGondo

Banned
I'm not. This report is sympathetic to the soldiers--it's from Drudge. It just shows how they are forced to view themselves to keep from giving up.
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
KingGondo said:
I'm not. This report is sympathetic to the soldiers--it's from Drudge. It just shows how they are forced to view themselves to keep from giving up.


i'm referring to the soldiers, not you.
 

Chrono

Banned
jesus_no_save.jpg
 
Tell me again how this is different from people from the middle east who will die in the name of Allah? To me it all just seems like zealots willing to kill in the name of God.
 

Koshiro

Member
kitchenmotors said:
Tell me again how this is different from people from the middle east who will die in the name of Allah? To me it all just seems like zealots willing to kill in the name of God.
It isn't. The issue is that America's army is now acting just like them.
 
D

Deleted member 1235

Unconfirmed Member
GOD vs A DIFFERENT VERSION OF GOD

who will win? Stay tuned.
 

Guileless

Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
What, soldiers pray on the eve of battles in which they might die? What a new development! You should all be shocked and appalled.
 
Guileless said:
What, soldiers pray on the eve of battles in which they might die? What a new development! You should all be shocked and appalled.

You might want to actually read over the entire article. If it was JUST praying, it wouldn't be so bad.
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
Guileless said:
What, soldiers pray on the eve of battles in which they might die? What a new development! You should all be shocked and appalled.
id say this was a little more than simply praying on the eve of a battle.
 

Koshiro

Member
Guileless said:
What, soldiers pray on the eve of battles in which they might die? What a new development! You should all be shocked and appalled.
Congratulations on completely missing the point.
 

Guileless

Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
Koshiro said:
Congratulations on completely missing the point.

What's the point? I'm Catholic and not so keen on Christian rock or anything besides a priest reading out something the Vatican promulgated several hundred years ago, but I don't think my method of worship is any better than evangelicals'. It's just different.
 

tedtropy

$50/hour, but no kissing on the lips and colors must be pre-separated
fart said:
i agree. christian rock music is an absolutely egregious method of torture

Most intelligent post in this thread thus far. Stay tuned for further updates.
 

Boogie

Member
Guileless said:
What's the point? I'm Catholic and not so keen on Christian rock or anything besides a priest reading out something the Vatican promulgated several hundred years ago, but I don't think my method of worship is any better than evangelicals'. It's just different.

The point is that they're trying to claim that these soldiers view Iraqis as "barbarians" because of the comparisons made to the Old Testament, and that they think the American soldiers are turning the conflict into a Christianity vs. Islam struggle.
 

Chrono

Banned
Boogie said:
The point is that they're trying to claim that these soldiers view Iraqis as "barbarians" because of the comparisons made to the Old Testament

wtf does that comparison imply then?
 

Guileless

Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
There are US military chaplains for all of the major religions and denominations, including Islam. The night before battles many of them pray with the troops. That has happened since Lexington and Concord. Belittling or making fun of how people choose to worship their God is juvenile at best.

Boogie, the people cutting off heads, trying to provoke sectarian war, and indiscriminately killing civilians or anyone working for the government are barbarians. They are medieval religious fascists who would love to videotape themselves sawing off your vertebrae. If that doesn't qualify as barbarous then you must have a high barbarian threshold indeed.
 

Boogie

Member
Guileless said:
Boogie, the people cutting off heads, trying to provoke sectarian war, and indiscriminately killing civilians or anyone working for the government are barbarians. They are medieval religious fascists who would love to videotape themselves sawing off your vertebrae. If that doesn't qualify as barbarous then you must have a high barbarian threshold indeed.

You misunderstand me. I agree with you, I was just presenting what the rest of the people here think "the point" is.

Just because they are calling their opponents "Barbarians" does not mean they think of Arabs as Barbarians, but rather, as Guileless said, those people who would kidnap and decapitate people, indiscriminantly kill civilians, etc, etc.
 
Boogie said:
You misunderstand me. I agree with you, I was just presenting what the rest of the people here think "the point" is.

Just because they are calling their opponents "Barbarians" does not mean they think of Arabs as Barbarians, but rather, as Guileless said, those people who would kidnap and decapitate people, indiscriminantly kill civilians, etc, etc.

I don't think it's entirely possible to stereotype all of the resistance fighters as simple kidnappers and killers. Some of them might be fighting against foreign invaders who have taken over their country. To turn this into a simple good vs. evil battle isn't fair to the people on the other side.
 

Boogie

Member
Hammy said:
I don't think it's entirely possible to stereotype all of the resistance fighters as simple kidnappers and killers. Some of them might be fighting against foreign invaders who have taken over their country. To turn this into a simple good vs. evil battle isn't fair to the people on the other side.

I'm sure many of the soldiers realize that, but these people are in combat. It's easy to sit back from our computers and say "hey, you shouldn't stereotype these guys you're fighting", but it's probably hard for them not to, considering these people will be trying to kill them.
 

fart

Savant
a secular force does not engage in combat with barbarians, per se. that kind of interpretation of combat is extremely dangerous in a secular world.

in response to boogie, i would say that a soldier has a right to think he or she is whatever or whoever he or she wants as long as he or she obeys orders to a T and those orders are independent of this non-secular interpretation of combat.

the problem we're seeing here is that the interpretation we see in this anecdotal example is the same one we're seeing from those who are giving the orders.
 
Boogie said:
I'm sure many of the soldiers realize that, but these people are in combat. It's easy to sit back from our computers and say "hey, you shouldn't stereotype these guys you're fighting", but it's probably hard for them not to, considering these people will be trying to kill them.
It's not exactly helpful that the religious leaders are prodding them along in this direction. The least the religious leaders could do is to direct the soldiers into becoming more positive thinkers. They don't have to frame it into a religious evil and good battle.
 

Boogie

Member
fart said:
a secular force does not engage in combat with barbarians, per se. that kind of interpretation of combat is extremely dangerous in a secular world.

Well, it certainly isn't a secular world, and I would say that a group's actions determines whether they are or are not "barbarians", not the nature of the force that is opposing them.

EDIT: I'd say I'm in agreement with your second two points though. No argument there.
 

Boogie

Member
Hammy said:
It's not exactly helpful that the religious leaders are prodding them along in this direction. The least the religious leaders could do is to direct the soldiers into becoming more positive thinkers. They don't have to frame it into a religious evil and good battle.

Agreed.
 

fart

Savant
again you're missing the point completely. the word barbarian is a cultural artifact. enemy combatants can not be "barbarians" to a secular force.

and yes, a secular force fights in a secular world, by definition. everything in the world must be viewed critically without religious background or color, and so on.
 

Boogie

Member
fart said:
and yes, a secular force fights in a secular world, by definition. everything in the world must be viewed critically without religious background or color, and so on.

Well, it seems pointless to me to try to analyse anything in the Middle East without taking religion into account.
 

fart

Savant
no no, that's fair.

i meant to say viewed critically, ie, not from the context of a specific religion
 
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