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[Vieo]

I started teaching(books & tutorials!) myself to make WIN32 programs a while ago. I'm still getting comfortable with it, but after I do I plan on learning a graphics library(to create t3h gam3s!). Whenever I tell this to someone, they always reply "Go with DirectX! Go with DirectX!".

What's the deal with that? Is OpenGL dead? I was always under the impression that OpenGL is more useful because I heard it's very portable(works on different OSes). Should I try to learn both or just stick with one?


EDIT: Which one is better for games anyway?

 

[Mugen]

OpenGL. Why? Cause I said so.

 

[Warm Machine]

Direct X is pretty well the standard for all future game development. The majority of modelling packages support its features right in the viewport.

 

[Hitokage]

OpenGL is used in everything but windows gaming, and even there somewhat.

 

[RevenantKioku]

OpenGL is essentially dead, no? At least DX is constantly being worked on. That's a blessing and a curse.
I felt I learned more from studying DX than openGL.

 

[Hitokage]

No, OpenGL 2.0 was published recently, and nvidia(to throw out a name) continues to have complete and up-to-date support along with extensions... which are the reason OGL doesn't need as frequent core updates as D3D does.

 

[Nightbringer]

Direct X is pretty well the standard for all future game development. The majority of modelling packages support its features right in the viewport.

Such as PS3, isn't it? :lol

 

[RevenantKioku]

No, OpenGL 2.0 was published recently, and nvidia(to throw out a name) continues to have complete and up-to-date support along with extensions... which are the reason OGL doesn't need as frequent core updates as D3D does.

I didn't mean to imply lack of support. I just thought openGL was "done" as in, "we don't need to add shit to it". But its been a few years.

 

[Hitokage]

Well, as I said, since OpenGL is extensible, the drivers just need to put in an extension in order to expose new functionality.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Well, as I said, since OpenGL is extensible, the drivers just need to put in an extension in order to expose new functionality.

Okay, now its starting to come back.
This is what I get for leaving CS for business, haha.

 

[Phoenix]

OpenGL is essentially dead, no? At least DX is constantly being worked on. That's a blessing and a curse.
I felt I learned more from studying DX than openGL.

Dead if you are only interested in writing code that only works on Windows and the Xbox. For the rest of the world, there is OpenGL. For mobile devices there is OpenGL ES. On consoles there is OpenGL ES (PS3).

OpenGL is far far from dead and is actually spreading now.


Both APIs are changing quite often, neither is stagnant in any way and for games, either is suitable.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Dead if you are only interested in writing code that only works on Windows and the Xbox. For the rest of the world, there is OpenGL. For mobile devices there is OpenGL ES. On consoles there is OpenGL ES (PS3)..

Maybe it was just the timing of learning, but I actually felt like I learned something not only about DX and graphics from learning DX, but I learned a lot about windows. OpenGL felt like a "hey, type this function in" bit. Which is good for its flexibility, but just felt empty as a learning tool. If you know how to code, and know the basics of 3d stuff, openGL is just copy, paste and edit. Or at least that's how I remember it.

And as far as cellphone's go, fuck 'em. Too much technology in a stupid place. Infuriates me, goddamnit!

But seriously, my original comment comes from reading somewhere that nothing more was being done with OpenGL. I mean, no work was being done on the actual libraries. I don't know where the fuck I read it, but I clearly remember doing so. Obviously I was mistaken.

 

[Phoenix]

Maybe it was just the timing of learning, but I actually felt like I learned something not only about DX and graphics from learning DX, but I learned a lot about windows. OpenGL felt like a "hey, type this function in" bit. Which is good for its flexibility, but just felt empty as a learning tool. If you know how to code, and know the basics of 3d stuff, openGL is just copy, paste and edit. Or at least that's how I remember it.

And as far as cellphone's go, fuck 'em. Too much technology in a stupid place. Infuriates me, goddamnit!

A good graphics API should isolate you entirely from the underlying operating system you're running on. DirectX and OpenGL both do that. Once you get a drawing surface for either one of them, you're pretty much doing the same thing. Not sure what you're referring to here.

 

[RevenantKioku]

A good graphics API should isolate you entirely from the underlying operating system you're running on. DirectX and OpenGL both do that. Once you get a drawing surface for either one of them, you're pretty much doing the same thing. Not sure what you're referring to here.

*shrugs*
Its been more than 2 years since I've coded either, so I'm foggy as hell. I just remember feeling like I learned a lot from studying DX, and my work with OpenGL left me feeling as if I didn't accomplish anything.

It probably boils down to that I'm talking when I shouldn't be.

 

[God's Hand]

OGL exists because of Linux/OSX and Nintendo & Sony. One day, DX will become the standard, and that is a good thing. Hell, even OGL code looks ugly. Blech.

 

[Phoenix]

OGL exists because of Linux/OSX and Nintendo & Sony. One day, DX will become the standard, and that is a good thing. Hell, even OGL code looks ugly. Blech.

You have it the other way around. DirectX exists because of Windows. OpenGL has been around forever. DirectX will never become the standard until Microsoft licenses it to other platforms.

Not sure what about OGL code looks ugly. Example? I can put up some DirectX code really quick that will look far uglier

 

[Hitokage]

OGL exists because of Linux/OSX and Nintendo & Sony. One day, DX will become the standard, and that is a good thing. Hell, even OGL code looks ugly. Blech.

Do you do anything but shill for Microsoft?

 

[God's Hand]

I hate the Xbox... and Windows ME... Other than that, Microsoft is one of the best companies around today, next to Nintendo.

 

[Phoenix]

I hate the Xbox... and Windows ME... Other than that, Microsoft is one of the best companies around today, next to Nintendo.

But what does that have to do with OpenGL or DirectX?

 

[God's Hand]

Nothing... he just insinuated I "shill" for Microsoft. Like all human beings, I have preferences and opinions, no matter how misguided you may think they are. Just the way she goes! Some people prefer DX, some OGL, some BOTH! It's astonishing how things just work like that!

 

[Hitokage]

But what does that have to do with OpenGL or DirectX?

OpenGL isn't a Microsoft Standard, of course.

 

[Phoenix]

Nothing... he just insinuated I "shill" for Microsoft. Like all human beings, I have preferences and opinions, no matter how misguided you may think they are. Just the way she goes! Some people prefer DX, some OGL, some BOTH! It's astonishing how things just work like that!

And that's all well and good until you say

Hell, even OGL code looks ugly. Blech.

 

[FightyF]

It really depends on what type of game you want to make, on what platform, and stuff like that.

DX does EVERYTHING. OGL just handles the graphics. There are open standards for audio and such, but DX can do networking, audio, graphics, inputs...all in one.

 

[VPhys]

HL2 > DOOM3 therefore DirectX > OpenGL

 

[Phoenix]

It really depends on what type of game you want to make, on what platform, and stuff like that.

DX does EVERYTHING. OGL just handles the graphics. There are open standards for audio and such, but DX can do networking, audio, graphics, inputs...all in one.

To be honest, I don't know any professionals using DirectSound or Directplay. For sound and networking I've seen more folks using 3rd party applications (such as FMOD, Miles, etc). DirectX is just a collection of APIs and you can put together the same collection using OpenGL, OpenAL, OpenPlay, and HID. But I think you will find that in most cases, the core APIs don't cover enough for most commercial games. Heck even DirectX and OpenGL are more often than not extended through the use of 3rd party APIs.

 

[shantyman]

Just saw this on slashdot (consider the source) but it ties into this conversation:

Windows Vista May Degrade OpenGL

Posted by Zonk on Saturday August 06, @02:37PM
from the you-have-chosen-poorly dept.
srw writes "OpenGL is the industry choice for cross platform, hardware accelerated 3D graphics, and it is also the only way you can get fast 3D graphics on your Linux desktop. It now seems Windows Vista implements OpenGL via Direct3D, seriously degrading its performance and attractiveness to developers." From the article: "In practice this means for OpenGL under Aeroglass: OpenGL performance will be significantly reduced - perhaps as much as 50%, OpenGL on Windows will be fixed at a vanilla version of OpenGL 1.4, No extensions will be possible to expose future hardware innovations. It would be technically straightforward to provide an OpenGL ICD within the full Aeroglass experience without compromising the stability or the security of the operating system. Layering OpenGL over Direct3D is a policy more than a technical decision."

 

[Ecrofirt]

Just saw this on slashdot (consider the source) but it ties into this conversation:

How is something like that not illegal? It seems like they're purposely trying to kill competition.

 

[Nerevar]

How is something like that not illegal? It seems like they're purposely trying to kill competition.

I doubt it's just the software makers. Hardware makers and content providers want to make sure that everything is "secured", so the Wintel alliance will control all the access to have to your computer at a software and hardware level. It's a huge group of people who have a vested interest in making sure they have all the keys to your computer.

 

[CaptainABAB]

Just saw this on slashdot (consider the source) but it ties into this conversation:

Yes, they have revised the entire UI such that every window is really a directX window. I won't go into specifics on why the new model is so much better then the current one, but this was not done to kill competition. The problem is all of the new LCD screens at resolutions all over the place and how the current windowing environment doesn't really let you scale the interface to what you want. You either end up with super small fonts/icons or you use hacks like the 120 DPI and large fonts, etc.

At this point, I don't think they could give 2 shits about Open GL - they've already won the war.

And, if true, this only applies to Aero Glass, which is the 3rd/highest tier of the new UI. You can always drop back to standard Aero or Classic to not use the new graphic driver model.

 

[Phoenix]

Just saw this on slashdot (consider the source) but it ties into this conversation:

This is to give OpenGL compliance where none would otherwise exist for the Aeroglass layer for people who want to write graphical windowing components. This doesn't prevent a fully compliant OpenGL ICD from functioning properly the way that I've seen it described.