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[Firestorm ZERO]

not even something like hellsing where the show takes place in england and everyone is speaking japanese?

LOL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDnu0giUS00

For me, there are some good anime dubs. But it is mainly limited to only the big budget series, popular series and movies. This is because they actually put the time, money and effort. For the most part, most anime dubs are not good IMO.

 

[cheesekao]

So the lack of dual audio is actually a technical limitation? How exactly is that possible?

Anyway, I found the Disgaea games and Demon Gaze to have pretty good dubs and some of the characters even sound better than the Japanese VAs. Seeing as to how this has even less voice acting than Demon Gaze, I don't think I'd have much of a problem even if the dub does turn out to be bad.

 

[Wereroku]

So the lack of dual audio is actually a technical limitation? How exactly is that possible?

Anyway, I found the Disgaea games and Demon Gaze to have pretty good dubs and some of the characters even sound better than the Japanese VAs. Seeing as to how this has even less voice acting than Demon Gaze, I don't think I'd have much of a problem even if the dub does turn out to be bad.

Could be anything Operation Abyss is based off 2 older PC games. So it could be a code limitation that can't be fixed or that Experience just doesn't have the time to fix.

 

[Firestorm ZERO]

So the lack of dual audio is actually a technical limitation? How exactly is that possible?

Most likely just time. It requires the developer (Experience Inc.) to modify the code. A simple change? Maybe. But it still requires work for them. They already have to program in the translation since I doubt NISA is programming that in.

However Experience should already know how to do it, since Demon Gaze was dual audio and I assume the engine is the same.

It could also be a space limitation. I don't know the size of Operation Abyss. But this could be worked around with DLC (like Project Diva F2nd) or an update patch (like Killzone)

 

[CrovaxPSO]

Just for the record again, the game is not even fully voiced in Japanese. Only main story moments and sometimes the first few lines of secondary dialogue have voice. I really hope people don't pass on the game just because it's dub-only since it's a great dungeon crawler.

 

[cheesekao]

Most likely just time. It requires the developer (Experience Inc.) to modify the code. A simple change? Maybe. But it still requires work for them. They already have to program in the translation since I doubt NISA is programming that in.

I'm pretty sure NISA does the programming for the translation since the western versions of TWATHK and DD2 have game breaking bugs not present in the JP versions.

 

[antibolo]

Just for the record again, the game is not even fully voiced in Japanese. Only main story moments and sometimes the first few lines of secondary dialogue have voice. I really hope people don't pass on the game just because it's dub-only since it's a great dungeon crawler.

So basically it's about the same level of voices as most Falcom games I guess?

 

[Ingueferroque]

Why aren't we happy that we are even getting this?
I don't need some low-budget voice-over work, English text will do.

 

[CrovaxPSO]

So basically it's about the same level of voices as most Falcom games I guess?

Not familiar enough with any Falcom game to say. Best comparison off the top of my head is the English release of Persona 3 or 4 (don't know about the Japanese original), where most (all?) of the main story is voiced but the social link dialogue usually is not. Operation Abyss has less story-related voice over compared to Persona, so it's not the most accurate comparison, but hopefully you see what I mean.

 

[Wereroku]

I'm pretty sure NISA does the programming for the translation since the western versions of TWATHK and DD2 have game breaking bugs not present in the JP versions.

In this case in particular I think Experience are actually doing it.

 

[antibolo]

Not familiar enough with any Falcom game to say. Best comparison off the top of my head is the English release of Persona 3 or 4 (don't know about the Japanese original), where most (all?) of the main story is voiced but the social link dialogue usually is not. Operation Abyss has less story-related voice over compared to Persona, so it's not the most accurate comparison, but hopefully you see what I mean.

No offense but the Persona games actually do have a lot of voiced content, so that sounds like the worst possible example to use to say that this game doesn't have a lot of it.

But anyway I think I got the gist of it from your previous post.

 

[CrovaxPSO]

No offense but the Persona games actually do have a lot of voiced content, so that sounds like the worst possible example to use to say that this game doesn't have a lot of it.

But anyway I think I got the gist of it from your previous post.

I only used that example to illustrate that main content is voiced, while secondary dialogue is (usually) not. Not to compare the amount in either game.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I'm pretty sure NISA does the programming for the translation since the western versions of TWATHK and DD2 have game breaking bugs not present in the JP versions.

That doesn't mean they did the programming. Quite the opposite usually, changing the text can cause bugs all the time, and most JP programmers have no real way of checking for it, hence QA is done by the US(often poorly).

 

[lazyproblems]

I'm pretty sure NISA does the programming for the translation since the western versions of TWATHK and DD2 have game breaking bugs not present in the JP versions.

Pretty sure NISA has said a couple times that they don't have any programmers. They're dependant on the Japanese companies inserting all of their text and audio. That's why the patches also take so long, because they rely on the companies getting back to them, and often they're focussed on upcoming Japanese games.

So NISA has a special event next month?

They better announce an Another Episode localization, or else heads are going to
roll.

This, so much.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

So the lack of dual audio is actually a technical limitation? How exactly is that possible?

Anyway, I found the Disgaea games and Demon Gaze to have pretty good dubs and some of the characters even sound better than the Japanese VAs. Seeing as to how this has even less voice acting than Demon Gaze, I don't think I'd have much of a problem even if the dub does turn out to be bad.

I cant imagine playing Disgaea with JPN vocals. Also some of the ways they have the characters speak in english are great.

 

[lazyproblems]

Just figured I should post this here:

So, I'm actually the script editor for Operation Abyss and hopefully I can clear up some misconceptions about the reasons why this title lack dual audio.

The one thing that keeps going unmentioned in this discussion is that Operation Abyss is actually two full length games from the Generation Xth series crammed into one Vita cartridge, which takes up a lot of space. Unlike the Vita release of Danganronpa 1 and 2, the option of separating the games into two cartridges to release them them separately was not made available to us. For this reason, there was only enough space on the cartridge to accommodate one voice track. Since we specialize in localizing Japanese games for English-speaking territories, we decided it would be convenient for our English-speaking audience to localize the text and voices into English.

Regarding our policy toward dual language releases, it has not changed. When we have the ability to release a title with English and Japanese voices, barring extreme circumstances we will do our best to provide that dual-audio experience to our fans. If we do not have that ability, providing an English voice track will always take precedence over providing the Japanese voice track, but only if we have the budget to go to the very expensive trouble of recording English voices in the first place. If recording voices is not an option for a title, then we'll release that title with localized English text and the original Japanese language voice track.

Hope this clears things up.

Is selling the voices as DLC not an option, though? I can point you to many releases just last year (Soul Sacrifice Delta, DBZ Battle of Z, Drakkengard 3) that did that for similar or other reasons.

I can understand prioritizing which track is built into the game, that makes sense, but when the other track you don't use does still exist and there is a way to offer it to players, like PSN, then I'm a little confused.

This is a fair point to raise, but unfortunately I can't say much more about the Japanese audio track without skirting into NDA territory. All I can say is that, at this time, selling the Japanese audio track as DLC is not an option for us.

 

[CrovaxPSO]

The post from the script editor was incorrect. He posted again and said that he inferred it was a size limitation from being told that it was a cartridge limitation. My guess is still that the problem is due to the game being basically a port of an older PC game, but it's just a guess.

http://nisamerica.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=15776&start=105#p845498

 

[lazyproblems]

The post from the script editor was incorrect. He posted again and said that he inferred it was a size limitation from being told that it was a cartridge limitation. My guess is still that the problem is due to the game being basically a port of an older PC game, but it's just a guess.

http://nisamerica.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=15776&start=105#p845498

Yeah, that was posted before he issued a correction. I'm guessing the game being a port had something to do with it. The coding for this one sounds particularly tricky for them.

I mean, to be fair, they've always provided dual audio whenever possible, so I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[cj_iwakura]

By the by, the PC game has no voice. And the art from that wasn't what I'd call detailed.

 

[Parakeetman]

By the by, the PC game has no voice. And the art from that wasn't what I'd call detailed.

it doesnt matter if they are still using old code still brings up the possibility that the way they went about it prevented them from doing dual audio. seeing how little was changed with a lot of things with the title really has me leaning towards that old code was used to help cut down production time.

 

[Wereroku]

it doesnt matter if they are still using old code still brings up the possibility that the way they went about it prevented them from doing dual audio. seeing how little was changed with a lot of things with the title really has me leaning towards that old code was used to help cut down production time.

Not to mention they add in that even if they got through the coding problems they still couldn't give dual audio for NDA'd reasons. I wonder if some of the VA's have region restrictive contracts.

 

[Parakeetman]

Not to mention they add in that even if they got through the coding problems they still couldn't give dual audio for NDA'd reasons. I wonder if some of the VA's have region restrictive contracts.

Could be and doing up a "global" type of contract proved to be too expensive regardless of amount of content in game, so NISA figured its cheaper just to go with dubs.

 

[lazyproblems]

NISA streamed a bit of the game on Twitch. There are samples of the voice acting for those curious.

NISA also posted some pics of the artbook.

 

[Korialstrasz]

Trailer.

 

[Shizuka]

New trailer is up.

 

[cj_iwakura]

New trailer is up.

Alice sounds great. Hope this isn't as evil as Xth. Xth is not an easy game.

 

[Dracandros]

I'm ready for this game after seeing that trailer.

It plays fast enough and it has dangerous traps. I really like that.

 

[mao2]

New trailer is up.

Looks good. I like the narrator's voice.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Looks good. I like the narrator's voice.

She's your superior and trainer, and also the mascot of the Xth series.

 

[Shizuka]

The trailer is a tad boring, but it'd never decrease my hype.

 

[lazyproblems]

DLC update:

 

[cj_iwakura]

NISA has a stream of it going now.

http://www.twitch.tv/nisamerica

I glanced at a bit of it, but it's just gameplay. Voices sound good, at least.

Was hoping to see the prologue.

 

[Parakeetman]

DLC update:

Its interesting they didnt pack the swim team portraits in with the LE version like the JP one had. Since with how they are doing it now, they could have just sold it separately anyways. Then again the US LE does come with the soundtrack so Id say that has a lot more value than the DLC codes. As the JP one did not since it was just a Sofmap preorder exclusive.

Both of the portrait packs are great though. Over here in Japan if you missed that famitsu issue then SOL for getting the dark hero portraits. You guys in the West have it a lot better thats for sure lol

For Op Babel seems like some of the dark hero portraits are making it into the main game too from a trailer.

 

[lazyproblems]

English trophy list is out. I didn't read it, but I'm sure there are spoilers:

http://www.exophase.com/game/operation-abyss-new-tokyo-legacy-ps-vita/trophies/

 

[Parakeetman]

English trophy list is out. I didn't read it, but I'm sure there are spoilers:

http://www.exophase.com/game/operation-abyss-new-tokyo-legacy-ps-vita/trophies/

Some stuff could be considered spoilers. Though depends on how much people care.

 

[Shizuka]

English trophy list is out. I didn't read it, but I'm sure there are spoilers:

http://www.exophase.com/game/operation-abyss-new-tokyo-legacy-ps-vita/trophies/

I shared that on the topic discussing the limited edition. I wouldn't use this one anymore, with the outdated title and information regarding the release date.

 

[JoeyJungle]

Jeremy Parish wrote a preview on his first few hours with the game: http://www.usgamer.net/articles/ope...the-question-how-old-school-is-too-old-school

 

[Parakeetman]

Jeremy Parish wrote a preview on his first few hours with the game: http://www.usgamer.net/articles/ope...the-question-how-old-school-is-too-old-school

No idea who Jeremy Parish is.

 

[Stanng243]

I take it this was delayed? Bestbuy says it doesn't release until June 9th.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

No idea who Jeremy Parish is.

1Up, IGN, USGamer. He's one of the better known JRPG fans in the gaming media.

 

[JoeyJungle]

No idea who Jeremy Parish is.

One of the hosts of Retronauts, huge jrpg fan. He used to write for EGM, 1UP, and a bunch of other places, now he's at USgamer.

 

[Tohsaka]

I take it this was delayed? Bestbuy says it doesn't release until June 9th.

Yeah, they pushed it back two months unfortunately.

 

[JPS Kai]

I take it this was delayed? Bestbuy says it doesn't release until June 9th.

Correct. June 9th USA, June 5th Europe. Physical/digital.

There's also free day one DLC (for the first month) and $1 swimsuit DLC.

 

[lazyproblems]

Jeremy Parish wrote a preview on his first few hours with the game: http://www.usgamer.net/articles/ope...the-question-how-old-school-is-too-old-school

Interesting perspective. He didn't really seem to like it much, but I'm still interested in buying. The game shows some promise, especially if you like DRPGs.

 

[CrovaxPSO]

That article seems pretty harsh. Comparing it to free to play Zynga games? I can't see that at all, haha. Your attacks will miss a lot early on simply because your characters have low stats. It's not something that goes out of its way to be hard. It's definitely not trying super hard to be "old school" since it has automapping and other modern conveniences. Some of the menus are a little archaic, but nothing is even close to 30 years archaic.

The Etrian Odyssey games seem way more intentionally old-school to me than Operation Abyss did.

 

[Parakeetman]

1Up, IGN, USGamer. He's one of the better known JRPG fans in the gaming media.

One of the hosts of Retronauts, huge jrpg fan. He used to write for EGM, 1UP, and a bunch of other places, now he's at USgamer.

Interesting. Thanks for the update with that.

 

[vagabondarts]

Jeremy Parish wrote a preview on his first few hours with the game: http://www.usgamer.net/articles/ope...the-question-how-old-school-is-too-old-school

Whoah, didn't expect this. Maybe he's finally over Dungeon Crawlers.

I understand what he's saying about designers doing things Wizardry-like because that's the way they've always done them, but I could see someone leveling similar accusations against roguelikes for being overly difficult or wasting your time.

In my mind going back to rest in order to level up is part of the wizardry-like side of the genre. Sometimes DRPG titles get rid of certain aspects or streamline certain parts, or give you mapmaking tools on your DS or 3DS for example. Sometimes they don't.

Progression is essentially similar throughout the genre though: Maze gameplay and fight, rest, level up, and fight again.

I ordered my LE a long time ago and I'm confident I'm going to love it.

 

[Parakeetman]

That article seems pretty harsh. Comparing it to free to play Zynga games? I can't see that at all, haha. Your attacks will miss a lot early on simply because your characters have low stats. It's not something that goes out of its way to be hard. It's definitely not trying super hard to be "old school" since it has automapping and other modern conveniences. Some of the menus are a little archaic, but nothing is even close to 30 years archaic.

The Etrian Odyssey games seem way more intentionally old-school to me than Operation Abyss did.

I think he just does not realize that the reason why a lot of things seem "old school" is due to it being mostly based off of Exp Incs first series as a company which is the Generation Xth series.

Though there are a lot of things in the title which are a bit outdated so to speak and will be curious to see if they did more updates in Babel to the overall game system from feedback from Abyss.

But yeah some stuff in that article do not agree with at all.

And similar to what Crovax said in the quote esp this section in the article.

I would say Operation Abyss has the time-wasting mentality of a particularly nefarious free-to-play game, but that would be backward. King and Zynga games channel the numbing repetition of old PC RPGs into a monetization model, and Operation Abyss simply copies the template of 30-year-old games with an almost religious zeal. Its design doesn't really feel deliberate or considered, but rather the result of designers who did it that way because that's the way it's always been done. It's the kind of game that grows on you over time in large part because it seems so impenetrable and unfriendly at the start; there's really nowhere to go but up. Once your characters can afford and equip weapons that better suit them and start to gain skills to diversify combat, it picks up a bit. But like so many games of this kind, the hardest part of the adventure is just finding the will to get started and suffer through its rigid, unforgiving opening hours.

I wonder just how many Wizardry games has he played since for the most part pretty much all of the standard ones you will be getting your ass handed to you initially just because its a very stats based game with the design mechanics, that also includes the poor starting equipment which is another common factor across all JRPGs for that matter.

Your team descends from legendary heroes, heroines, and gods (from Oda Nobunaga to Amaterasu to Joan of Arc)

Wonder if NISA went and localized one of the characters differently for a description, since Oda Nobunaga does not exist. Blood codes for the fighter based off of Minamoto Yoshitsune and Samurai which is Miyamoto Musashi. Just looked through the blood codes and read the description about which famous person they are based off of.

 

[CrovaxPSO]

I didn't really think the start of Operation Abyss was really all that difficult. Yeah, you have crappy stats and very limited spell uses, but the enemies are really weak as well. I know in Cross Blood you can run into a super powerful enemy in the first area, which can be annoying, but I don't remember anything like that in OA. I'm glad he says in the preview that it gets better once you're out of the early levels, but I still think he's being unfair to the game's early sections.

Edit: Meant to quote part of Parakeetman's post but something happened and oh well.

 

[Parakeetman]

I didn't really think the start of Operation Abyss was really all that difficult. Yeah, you have crappy stats and very limited spell uses, but the enemies are really weak as well. I know in Cross Blood you can run into a super powerful enemy in the first area, which can be annoying, but I don't remember anything like that in OA. I'm glad he says in the preview that it gets better once you're out of the early levels, but I still think he's being unfair to the game's early sections.

Edit: Meant to quote part of Parakeetman's post but something happened and oh well.

Pretty much. The enemies that show up early on are not that bad. Plus you get a full party quick once you get through the introduction bit and back to HQ.

OA in the first area the stronger enemy will only show up if you are constantly fighting with that risk system. If we are talking about the building dungeon which is the first one you tackle with a full party.

Seeing how he writes and from there can get a pretty good idea of his personality do think the guy has the wrong mindset about things. Cant blame him for not knowing the history of the series as for the most part not many knew about Exp Inc till Demon Gaze hit and made a splash.

Most of the points he tries to bring up all stem from the fact that the game was designed to be a remake of the original title but that did not mean they were going to change the gameplay mechanics. As those have stayed constant and is part of what makes the series what it is.

I love how he tries to throw old school around so much, but the way he is using it is not always correct. That and he seems to want the game to hold his hand for him about the map stuff instead of actually remembering things with the dungeons. The fact that there is a minimap there already goes to show its not old school as old Wizardry titles said "fuck you get graph paper". lol

Those who are familiar with the DRPG genre, esp people coming from Demon Gaze should have pretty much no issues with the title as its not that difficult with how the mechanics work and nowhere near as unforgiving as the Elminage series for example. Which is classic Wizardry minus the actual licensed name.