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Opinion: Nolan and Burton Batman annihilate Reeves Batman

A

arkhamguy123

Banned
Anyone else agree? This has become a thought that has crystallized to me recently

Me and my girlfriend saw the burton duology last year in theaters for Batman day and this year celebrated Batman day by seeing the Nolan trilogy in theaters (she was too young to see them as they came out so it was her first time on the big screen) and man these movies are fucking awesome. All 5. Love them to death. A few even get in on my favorite movies of all time list and I have what most would call a film snob kind of taste.

They’re so fun and dark and full of life and are such unique culturally iconic takes on Batman. Everytime I watch them I wanna go re read my comics, play the Arkham/telltale games, watch the animated shows. I think these two guys just nailed it for what they were going for. This was also back when there was still artistry and craft in big blockbusters.

Anyways so I’m on this Batman high and I pop in my 4K blu ray of the Batman into the ps5 and uhhh… hmmmm… look, it’s not a BAD movie at all, in fact, compared to its contemporaries, like most modern blockbusters, it’s a transcendent masterpiece. Reeves has a vision and you can tell it’s the guy who did the last 2 apes movies. But something is like… amiss? I can’t quite place it. It’s like previous Batman movies are a fridge with electricity going through them making them turn on and come alive and preserve your food or whatever. And this is like a fridge without any electric current so it’s just a big empty husk

The visuals are great. It’s shot on digital unlike every previous live action Batman shot on film so at times it looks a little TV show ish but it’s really well made. The acting is good. The script is… just, good. But it never takes it to the next level. I feel like Matt reeves just maybe doesn’t have the secret sauce? Even parts of the Ben affleck Batman I felt had more umpth and charge to it. Partially in the aesthetic and action. Everything just feels kind of flat and lifeless. Catwoman. Flat. Alfred. Flat. Gordon. Flat. Riddler I felt like they failed to find that singular vision for him. Even batman himself is a little flat as he mainly just slowly stares at things/people for 3 hours

I also feel like it felt like a complete lite amateur version of Nolan to some extent. Good god I could literally make a separate thread of everything reeves copied from Nolan. I think I counted like 15-20 key things he borrowed. Batman has always been an ally of cinematic reinterpretation, every Batman movie feels completely distinct. Burton to Schumacher to Nolan. Hell I even felt Snyder differentiated his take a lot too. But this just feels like a slightly less soulful 2020s Nolan rehash. I dunno man. I’m hyped for Part 2 but I feel like I’d rather have seen the Ben affleck solo movie with deathstroke.
 
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GnomeChimpsky

GnomeChimpsky

Member
I can't put my finger on it but the movie definitely felt like less than the sum of it's parts. Robert Pattinson, Paul Dano and Colin Farrell are some of my favorite actors but their performances fell flat for me for different reasons; Emo Batman got old pretty quick, Riddler looked like he was gonna pop a vessel trying to out-psycho himself in every scene and Colin Farrell... well he was pretty great I guess. Dat makeup 👌
Also, Andy Serkis played Alfred? I can't remember a single thing he did or said in the movie...

I usually don't judge movies like this without seeing them a few times, so I'm gonna rewatch it tonight, but those are the things that stood out to me.
 
A

arkhamguy123

Banned
GnomeChimpsky said:
I can't put my finger on it but the movie definitely felt like less than the sum of it's parts. Robert Pattinson, Paul Dano and Colin Farrell are some of my favorite actors but their performances fell flat for me for different reasons; Emo Batman got old pretty quick, Riddler looked like he was gonna pop a vessel trying to out-psycho himself in every scene and Colin Farrell... well he was pretty great I guess. Dat makeup 👌
Also, Andy Serkis played Alfred? I can't remember a single thing he did or said in the movie...

I usually don't judge movies like this without seeing them a few times, so I'm gonna rewatch it tonight, but those are the things that stood out to me.
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I’ve seen it a decent amount of time and that’s part of what it is for me too man. They have these great actors so I can only assume reeves direction is what’s letting them down. I was so excited for Robert Pattinson’s Batman but it ends up feeling a little two dimensional. He is almost the exact same in every single scene. Static. Same goes for Gordon, catwoman and everyone except maybe penguin.

Previous Batman actors we got to see be angry. Quiet. Suave. Jokey. Sad. Amused. Etc etc all in the same movie
 
RavenSan

RavenSan

Off-Site Inflammatory Member
I thought the Reeves Batman was fantastic. Best since Dark Knight. Begins and Rises were good. Not great. I don't honestly remember much of the Burton ones, it's been that long since I've watched them. So I'd say Nolan is still my favorite (Dark Knight) but if Reeves does a second one that's just as good/better than his first, well, he gets the crown.
 
FunkMiller

FunkMiller

Member
Nolan’s is the best, but Burton didn’t really make a Batman film, he made a Tim Burton film. His Batman is even further away from the spirit of the character than Snyder‘s. Reeves’s take is the second best on screen.
 
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A

arkhamguy123

Banned
FunkMiller said:
Nolan’s is the best, but Burton didn’t really make a Batman film, he made a Tim Burton film. His Batman is even further away from the spirit of the character than Snyder‘s. Reeves’s take is the second best on screen.
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Hm. To me, it’s about the end result. I would say I find his duology very batmany, but for the sake of discussion taking what you said and addressing that as fact, I would say if it ends up more compelling on screen then comic accuracy be damned

I have a collection of Batman comics that probably weights over a 100 pounds. And I’ve read them all more than once. I still don’t really venerate comic accuracy like I used to. Give me an original take, follow the graphic novels to panel for panel, doesn’t matter to me, if the movie is great.

For example, Michelle’s catwoman vs Zoe’s. The former is not very comic accurate but had about 10x the charm and gravitas. Id watch Michelle’s catwoman on loop 5 times over before Zoe’s tv show tier bland comic accurate take.
 
A

arkhamguy123

Banned
L*][*N*K said:
I like them all, they are all different takes that have their own strengths and weaknesses, saying something like “Annihilate” to describe tiny differences between characters is just weird man
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It’s not. It’s a sub in synonym for simply saying “sizably better than” in contrast. Don’t overthink it

And I don’t think the differences are tiny, and I’m comparing the films themselves not the specific character of Batman
 
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Batiman

Batiman

Banned
arkhamguy123 said:
October 2025 with hush and clayface as the villains

Rumored Harvey dent, dick Grayson, and Julie Madison appearances too
Click to expand...
Then it has great potential to be a great first instalment. To me I felt the same with Begins. It was good but I feel it was great after the whole trilogy. Great start up movie but not enough to fully satisfy me on its own
 
RJMacready73

RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
The recent Batman film was decent but I'll never watch it again, it's too dark, too long and not a lot really happens, but show me that Joker opening Sequence from The Dark Knight and my ass is glued to the sofa to rewatch it for the umpteenth time...
 
AlteredForms

AlteredForms

Banned
You actually made a thread about this lol? Yes, it’s pretty much near consensus that Nolan’s trilogy is the best. Also, Matt Reeve’s contribution is ONE Batman movie so it’s unfair to make a comparison.
 
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sankt-Antonio

sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
"Reeves has a vision and you can tell it’s the guy who did the last 2 apes movies. But something is like… amiss? I can’t quite place it"

Movie is too long for what it tries to achieve
There are five locations the whole movie takes place in, repeatedly visited
Batman's love interest with Catwoman does not work at all, its undeserved, ice cold, emotionless
Bruce Wayne is unlikable as is Batman, no charm or esprit
Catwoman's messaging against old white man was not worthy of a Batman movie and felt out of place
Ending turning into a shoot bang Marvel shit fest did not fit the style of the movie at all
 
A

arkhamguy123

Banned
RJMacready73 said:
The recent Batman film was decent but I'll never watch it again, it's too dark, too long and not a lot really happens, but show me that Joker opening Sequence from The Dark Knight and my ass is glued to the sofa to rewatch it for the umpteenth time...
Click to expand...
Couldn’t have said it better myself
 
TGO

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
I paused The Batman twice for a hour each and did something else.
The film was boring as fuck.
Don't get me wrong, I think Robert Patterson played a good Batman and the Batman parts was good, the rest and every other character suck ass.
It's also the only Batman since Batman & Robin I have never bought.
 
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WhiteWaterM00se

WhiteWaterM00se

Member
I completely agree with OP. I feel Reeves gets one more movie to wrap it up and it is time to reboot.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD…if you are not going to go back to long rumored noire Batman, then while Keaton is alive and able. DO a Burton-esque BATMAN BEYOND!
 
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A

arkhamguy123

Banned
TGO said:
I paused The Batman twice for a hour each and did something else.
The film was boring as fuck.
Don't get me wrong, I think Robert Patterson played a good Batman and the Batman parts was good, the rest and every other character suck ass.
It's also the only Batman since Batman & Robin I have never bought.
Click to expand...
I can’t believe they did the young grounded gritty realistic take again.

I feel like it’s just not very fresh. Nolan was not that long ago. I think we were ready for an arkham or animated series kind of take. Me and my gf are replaying origins (I play, she watches like a movie) and we kept thinking it they did this shit in live action it would be so fuckin cool

Differentiated from the rest of the live action batmen and would be it’s own thing
 
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TGO

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
And the one thing that did bug the shit out of me.
Catwoman
Her Story could be ANY random female in the film and it would make no difference.
Just think about her story arc
She could have not been Catwoman and it would have made no impact to the story they told.
They just had a side story and gave her Catwoman's name and called it a day
that wasn't Catwoman
 
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Toons

Toons

Member
Nobody_Important said:
All those movies had their highs and lows.


It doesn't have to be a This vs That everytime.
Click to expand...

Yeah batman is such a versatile and storied character that if you ask any 3 people what the ideal Batman story is you'll get 2.5 different answers.

Personally The Batman spoke to my sensibilities more than any batman film prior, thought the nolan trilogy is excellent.
 
TheGrat1

TheGrat1

Member
It is because Batman had no presence, even in universe. He was not a scary borderline supernatural being, he was just a brooding guy in a black costume and cool gadgets, and that was plain for everyone to see.
It is telling in the opening when the only time people are afraid of Batman is when he is not actually there, and so they are afraid of the idea of him. When he reveals himself to the thugs on the platform, they laugh at him. He was just standing next to cops at crime scenes and he was met with open contempt at most. Even the bouncers at the club are not afraid of him once he is visible.
Affleck Batman and Nolan Batman were perceived as more than men. They adopted a symbol and yet people still thought they were myths/urban legends. A guy scared to do a drug deal just from seeing the bat symbol. The police let Batman meet with Gordon alone in the vault in TDK, he got special treatment because of his track record and Gordon's endorsement. The cop in BvS nearly shit himself when he saw Batman and tried to shoot him, even the women he saved were scared of him.

I liked that they tried to play up the detective aspect of the character but his interactions with people were just too....how to say it...sanitary. With the exception of Riddler hardly anyone showed emotion when interacting with him (well, Penguin did, but he was just pissed) and no one was scared of him.
 
RJMacready73

RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
I couldn't even tell you the main story beats of the new Batman movie lol it left such an indelible impression on my all I can really remember is that Robert Patterson was actually really good in it but it was just too dark, was there even any levity in it?
 
FunkMiller

FunkMiller

Member
Artoris said:
Be that as it may, Burton films are still how I think of Batman
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More than fair enough, but as depictions of the Batman character, they are fucking horrible.

Great Tim Burton movies though.

Nolan’s really been the only one to get the full package, which is why his films are still regarded as the best.

Hell, The Dark Knight is STILL the best comic book movie ever made.
 
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kunonabi

kunonabi

Member
TheGrat1 said:
It is because Batman had no presence, even in universe. He was not a scary borderline supernatural being, he was just a brooding guy in a black costume and cool gadgets, and that was plain for everyone to see.
It is telling in the opening when the only time people are afraid of Batman is when he is not actually there, and so they are afraid of the idea of him. When he reveals himself to the thugs on the platform, they laugh at him. He was just standing next to cops at crime scenes and he was met with open contempt at most. Even the bouncers at the club are not afraid of him once he is visible.
Affleck Batman and Nolan Batman were perceived as more than men. They adopted a symbol and yet people still thought they were myths/urban legends. A guy scared to do a drug deal just from seeing the bat symbol. The police let Batman meet with Gordon alone in the vault in TDK, he got special treatment because of his track record and Gordon's endorsement. The cop in BvS nearly shit himself when he saw Batman and tried to shoot him, even the women he saved were scared of him.

I liked that they tried to play up the detective aspect of the character but his interactions with people were just too....how to say it...sanitary. With the exception of Riddler hardly anyone showed emotion when interacting with him (well, Penguin did, but he was just pissed) and no one was scared of him.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's weird that nobody takes him seriously and hes constantly framed as sort of an unimpressive weirdo and even kind of bumbling on occasion. Like if it was strictly a rookie batman story that might have been OK but considering the movie is supposed to be a rejection of the Batman as a symbol of fear the whole thing just comes off as confused. I like Pattinson's Batman otherwise but the rest of the movie didn't work for me especially the joke of an ending.
 
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Sub_Level

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
I liked it. Dark Knight was one of the best movies ever made (comic book or otherwise) so obviously nothing will ever top it. Reeves Batman felt more like a long episode of the cartoon, in a good way.
 
SJRB

SJRB

Gold Member
The Batman's biggest flaw it is that it is just so boring. Such a slow, meandering slog with zero rewatchable moments aside from maybe the narrated opening, the highway chase and the club fight scene. There's no reason for this movie to be 3 hours long.

Weirdly structured too where pretty much everything wraps up in the third act, only for the movie to slap on a fourth act to make the Riddler the antagonist, while in reality all he's done in the movie is point out the extreme corruption of government and the police, and killed off very bad people.
 
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Dice

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Reeves Batman is the Batman from the most important Batman comics. Everything about it absolutely nailed the vibe of the comics. The only slight downside was the moment in the timeline, being in the early years when Bruce was still obsessive/emo and hadn't learned where this Batman thing fit into a life/identity. That makes it interesting in some ways, but overall it is a bit of a downer on the experience since it clearly wants to go full tilt on detective Batman and he isn't fully pro to embody that yet. Everything here is about identity and how to be rightfully discriminate; how does justice meet fairness and how do these weigh against health, personal and societal? It's a particularly millennial set of concerns yet very deeply comics Batman.

Burton Batman definitely had a completely iconic aesthetic. They are really beautiful films expertly using simple practical effects to great result and some of his best work. It is extremely campy, but in a smart and funny way, not terrible way like those Batmans that shall not be named. It has a sort of materialist charm rooted in playful frankness that is emblematic of 80s film. A very NYC frame of mind over the West Coast frames more popular today, if that makes any sense, more psychiatric than political. The characters are fully in the moment, which makes them fully alive. Though they come off heedless and shallow for it, it makes for more delightful moments.

Nolan Batman is a real mixed bag. Begins to me is just okay, does alright the first time but really slow and boring after the first watch. Way too far up its own ass on the philosophy which isn't even all that deep. It just thinks that is it higher class than it actually is. Dark Knight is a completely iconic movie, lightning in a bottle kind of stuff. I still don't like the batmobile from it but I'll let that slide because the action sits in the memory next to stuff like Terminator 2. Joker replays the philosophy of the first but from the other side and does a better job raising critique. Batman's inner conflict discerning rage from madness falls a bit flat. Rises was just pretty bad. Everything Bane did just shouldn't have worked at all for so many reasons and it made Gotham look incredibly stupid rather than make Bane look like a strategic genius (which he is in the novels/comics). Hathaway is a major downer. The dilemma, climax, and resolution is completely absurd. Burton made things absurd as a point of humor but Rises is just blind to itself.

TheGrat1 said:
Affleck Batman and Nolan Batman were perceived as more than men. They adopted a symbol and yet people still thought they were myths/urban legends. A guy scared to do a drug deal just from seeing the bat symbol. The police let Batman meet with Gordon alone in the vault in TDK, he got special treatment because of his track record and Gordon's endorsement. The cop in BvS nearly shit himself when he saw Batman and tried to shoot him, even the women he saved were scared of him.
Click to expand...
I mean, that is one of the major points of The Batman. He had a vague idea of wanting that but hadn't figured out how to get there yet. Becoming the undaunted hero in the eyes of the people is the first step to becoming the unbeatable opposition in the eyes of villains. The brand would settle in through personal experiences and legends told more than actions performed in dark alleys.

Still, I do see what you're saying when it comes to the end result on screen for us. That's why I think the moment in the timeline is the biggest downer of the film. Conversely to this, Affleck's Batman is severely underrated. It is late in the game, peak Gotham Batman just as he faces a threat to all humanity, realizes and accepts that killing sometimes has to be allowed and FINALLY develops as a character to being Justice League Batman. He is the living legend moving up to be the mastermind of other legends. I really like it even if there are many problems with Snyder's direction.
 
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Sleepwalker

Sleepwalker

Member
I enjoyed the batman at the cinema but it comes crashing down upon rewatching it, feels very boring with tons of filler moments.

Nolan trilogy is the absolute best. Its been a while since I watched the Tim Burton films.
 
Punished Miku

Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
I couldnt even finish the new Batman. Turned it off about 65% of the way through. Only Batman film that's happened with for me. No clue what anyone sees in it. I think Pattinson had potential and was interesting casting but nothing in the film worked.
 
simpatico

simpatico

Member
I didn't like The Batman at all. Was a slog to get through. Zero memorable moments outside of what was in the trailers. If you haven't seen it, just watch the trailers. The rest is filler.
 
Jsisto

Jsisto

Member
Same problem as The Irishman. Overstays it’s welcome and not very rewatchable. Was a fine movie, but I have no desire to ever watch it again. The Nolan films I usually watch every year.
 
A

arkhamguy123

Banned
TheGrat1 said:
It is because Batman had no presence, even in universe. He was not a scary borderline supernatural being, he was just a brooding guy in a black costume and cool gadgets, and that was plain for everyone to see.
It is telling in the opening when the only time people are afraid of Batman is when he is not actually there, and so they are afraid of the idea of him. When he reveals himself to the thugs on the platform, they laugh at him. He was just standing next to cops at crime scenes and he was met with open contempt at most. Even the bouncers at the club are not afraid of him once he is visible.
Affleck Batman and Nolan Batman were perceived as more than men. They adopted a symbol and yet people still thought they were myths/urban legends. A guy scared to do a drug deal just from seeing the bat symbol. The police let Batman meet with Gordon alone in the vault in TDK, he got special treatment because of his track record and Gordon's endorsement. The cop in BvS nearly shit himself when he saw Batman and tried to shoot him, even the women he saved were scared of him.

I liked that they tried to play up the detective aspect of the character but his interactions with people were just too....how to say it...sanitary. With the exception of Riddler hardly anyone showed emotion when interacting with him (well, Penguin did, but he was just pissed) and no one was scared of him.
Click to expand...
This. I feel like Matt almost gave him too much screen time? Previous Batman directors understood how to utilize him smartly so when he comes on screen it’s like “ooooh shit it’s Batman!” And they usually have him doing something awesome and/or interesting

I appreciate what reeves was trying to do, use Batman like the comics and games maybe. But eventually you just kinda like… lose that gravitas for Batman. Doesn’t help that a lot of what he’s doing isn’t really that compelling or even cool. Just kinda waking slowly and looking around. Eventually I realized I didn’t have that “ahhhh look! My childhood hero Batman is on screen!” I was just like “oh yeah he’s here. He’s had like 2 hours of screen time in this movie”

Like a medium concrete from Andy’s is satisfactory. But eating a quart all at once is not good.
 
Trilobit

Trilobit

Member
The Batman didn't suck, but it nearly sucked. And nor was it very good. The script was all over the place and it didn't know what tone it was going for.

I had high expectations as I loved the Apes movies, but this was far below the quality of those. I'm really hoping he gets it right with the sequel.
 
Roni

Roni

Member
Nolan's trilogy is still epic, but watching Reeves' Batman is like watching a comic book brought to life. No other movie evokes the comic book feeling better. If I wanted to communicate to a non reader what it felt to read Batman, I would have to show them Reeves' version.
 
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