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[OnPoint]

I guess now's as good a time as any to post some thoughts on the season, since I finished it last night.

Spoiler

I'll start with what I hated the most: Piper/Voss literally add nothing to the story once they get past the crack smoking scene, and everything they had happen was invalidated following it. I am wishing for the next plotline to take over whenever they're on screen. What could have been meaningful character arcs for them with real weight and consequence -- murder in self defense and inspiring racial hatred -- that might create something of compelling fiction if followed through upon, are simply swept aside after the characters bond over smoking crack. It was like someone flipped a switch and both characters were pulled out of the fire. They have no place left on this show, but they'll continue shoving them down our throats for whatever reason, even though everyone else is more interesting. I do get that Piper is the "main character", but let's be honest, that's really not been the case for at least two, maybe three seasons. It's an ensemble now, and she's just leftover baggage. Hopefully they continue to dial back on them even more.

Spoiler

That said, I really liked how the new guards came in and were harsher and harder to deal with. It gave the season a real sense of tension and made it feel ever-so-slightly less like they all have detention instead of them being in prison. I did not like how most of them were all reduced by the end to cartoonish villains though -- eat the fly or the mouse! guy in particular, but the murdery military story didn't do that guy any favors either. Piscatella was actually enjoyable as a character, as I enjoyed his general power-trip/awkward moment dichotomy. They really could have gone somewhere interesting with him, but I doubt he'll be back.

Spoiler

Other random musings: I hope the Healy arc is considered "wrapped up" and he doesn't come back; I didn't like Martha Stewart+Paula Dean or any of her plots; I really felt for Lolly after this season; Poussey will be missed and they did a good job setting up the situation involving and surrounding her death to have weight; I appreciate the growth they're giving Pennsatucky; Capputo continues to walk a weird line but still manages to be a "good guy"; Daya was a waste all season and her getting the gun seems tonally incorrect (shoulda been Maria); I hope they go further with MIke Birbiglia's thing next season

Largely, I felt it was better than last season. I'll tune in again next year.

It can be both imo.

Spoiler

A flashback that thematically works as "paradise" and as a feel-good send off for the character.

I like the idea. Let's go with that

 

[Ceres]

Finished the last 3 episodes

Spoiler

and it really fucking hurt. Taystee and Poussey have been my two favorite characters since the start of the show and I yelled at the tv as soon as I realized Poussey was about to die.

And unrelated to above but Piper has always been one of the most boring characters on the show since the beginning. You just had Jason Biggs and her sister characters to lower the bar for worst characters on the show.

 

[SeriuzBiznus]

Definitely an improvement on the last season, but still a little hit and miss for me.

Morello has replaced Piper as the most irritating character in the series. Jesus Christ, I had to resist the urge to fast-forward every time she appeared on screen. It's not just the voice (though that doesn't help), her story line is just fucking dull.

The flashbacks, as other have said, were on the weaker side this season but

Spoiler

Lolly and Poussey were absolute standouts. I hope we get more Lolly next season. That actress is fantastic

.

Spoiler

Me and my G/F think this whole scene wasn't her past, but the afterlife. I remember she said in a previous Season her perfect place was New York. This is her "Heaven." Her breaking the fourth wall and smiling at the end is basically showing that she's happy to finally be free from the prison, life and has ascended beyond the show.

Wow. Really love this theory!

 

[Theorry]

One thing i found weird about Burset

Spoiler

Its like a big thing in the beginning of the season. But when she finally gets out from the shu. Nobody is talking to her. Not even her friends who tried to get he out. And we see her only with Gloria.

 

[TedMilk]

Definitely an improvement on the last season, but still a little hit and miss for me.

Morello has replaced Piper as the most irritating character in the series. Jesus Christ, I had to resist the urge to fast-forward every time she appeared on screen. It's not just the voice (though that doesn't help), her story line is just fucking dull.

The flashbacks, as other have said, were on the weaker side this season but

Spoiler

Lolly and Poussey were absolute standouts. I hope we get more Lolly next season. That actress is fantastic

.

She played Tank Girl in the movie!

 

[ZackieChan]

She played Tank Girl in the movie!

Haha, I was gonna link to Tank Girl for more of her, too.

Check out the original Point Break, then.

 

[Sadsic]

Just finished the season.

Spoiler

Way too much to process, but this was definitely the most emotional and tense season of the show for me

 

[Ayumi]

According to the OP, you guys don't have to spoiler your posts anymore. (๑´・ω・`&#3665

 

[Opto]

It can be both imo.

Spoiler

A flashback that thematically works as "paradise" and as a feel-good send off for the character.

The direct look and smile into the camera felt wrong. Too much of a "i'm fine" sendoff.

NO YOU AREN'T. THE SYSTEM KILLED YOU AND LET YOU ROT ON THE FLOOR

 

[pigeon]

The direct look and smile into the camera felt wrong. Too much of a "i'm fine" sendoff.

NO YOU AREN'T. THE SYSTEM KILLED YOU AND LET YOU ROT ON THE FLOOR

I actually read that more as a deliberate juxtaposition.

Remember this person? LOOK WHAT'S HAPPENING WITHOUT THEM

 

[Sora the Cat]

Loved the season. Finally up to the level of the first one. Not a big fan of the cliffhanger, but it was really well done and I'll give them a pass this time.

The direct look and smile into the camera felt wrong. Too much of a "i'm fine" sendoff.

NO YOU AREN'T. THE SYSTEM KILLED YOU AND LET YOU ROT ON THE FLOOR

It wasn't like that, it was more like: "Now you can stop weeping, my death wasn't for nothing" or something like that. I actually quite like it.

 

[Opto]

It wasn't like that, it was more like: "Now you can stop weeping, my death wasn't for nothing" or something like that. I actually quite like it.

She just wanted some head from her girlfriend and a decent job when she got out. I don't think she would want a riot (not that a riot wasn't called for). It felt like they wanted a positive cut to black to counter all of the heavy shit, but they overplayed their hand

 

[Sora the Cat]

She just wanted some head from her girlfriend and a decent job when she got out. I don't think she would want a riot (not that a riot wasn't called for). It felt like they wanted a positive cut to black to counter all of the heavy shit, but they overplayed their hand

I never said she wanted a riot, I'm saying that we as the spectators wanted something to justify her death, and that is the riot. The fact that she was looking straight at the camera implies some sort of understanding between the audience and the writers. You know, like in a Frank Underwood kinda way.

I honestly don't think they were just trying to show that she was happy at the end, that would be to easy. It didn't felt positive, it felt redeeming.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I don't care what GAF says.

This was the strongest season since 1.

 

[Sadsic]

I don't care what GAF says.

This was the strongest season since 1.

tbh this was the best season of the whole show to me. only real problem for me was that Piper and Alex had very little agency in relation to the rest of the prison population

also the flashbacks in general were a little lacking compared to season one and two's flashbacks, the only one i really liked was Lolly's off the top of my head

the show as a whole is maybe a B- to B+ endeavor, but this season was probably solidly B with some B+ episodes (notably The Animals)

 

[ZackieChan]

I don't care what GAF says.

This was the strongest season since 1.

I definitely agree with this. I just dont think the last two episodes were as good as others do.

 

[Oddduck]

I don't care what GAF says.

This was the strongest season since 1.

I totally agree with this.

Season 4 felt like a return to greatness after a boring Season 3.

 

[twentytwo22]

Just finished the second to last episode :-(

 

[BSherrod]

I feel like everything was clicking (outside of Piper because she's a trash character) but the finale left a weird taste in my mouth. The flashback was great, the cliffhanger was weird and I didn't think the handled the repercussions of what happened in the penultimate episode very well at all. Was great all the way through, but didn't quite stick the landing for me. Still a great season though.

 

[RoyaleDuke]

Loved the season, the ending made me very sad though.

 

[rockman zx]

Enjoyed this season more than I expected coming from S3 but didn't like the ending, personally I felt some of the characters were underused this season but I guess is normal with so many characters and good actresses.

Caputo was great the whole season.

 

[CloudWolf]

Shit man, amazing season. The death of Poussey hit me hard of course, but I was also really surprised how tough the final scene with Lolly was to watch. She might've been crazy, but those cries to Healy as they dragged her off were heartbreaking.

The writing seems to ignore anachronisms or pop culture references the inmates shouldn't make.

"Winter is coming", y'all don't have HBO in prison, get the fuck out.

You do know that quote is from a book, right? She probably read those.

 

[RoyaleDuke]

Shit man, amazing season. The death of Poussey hit me hard of course, but I was also really surprised how tough the final scene with Lolly was to watch. She might've been crazy, but those cries to Healy as they dragged her off were heartbreaking.


You do know that quote is from a book, right? She probably read those.

As someone that has some of the same issues as Lolly, watching her backstory and the final scenes with her were absolutely heartbreaking for me. Made me feel terrible because I know what it is like in the psych ward.

 

[jett]

I'm on episode 3. Damn Brooke, you're one awful fucking person.

So far, this show is still super fun.

 

[GK86]

Been avoiding spoilers like the plague...and got spoiled three posts up. Sigh.


Was coming in to say that Pipes

Spoiler

deserved her branding.

 

[SirClinksAlot]

Finished the season last night and really liked it. So sad at Lolly, though. Immediately after her first flashback I had to go look up who was playing young Lolly as she was fantastic.

 

[Ayumi]

I'm on episode 3. Damn Brooke, you're one awful fucking person.

So far, this show is still super fun.

Been avoiding spoilers like the plague...and got spoiled three posts up. Sigh.


Was coming in to say that Pipes

Spoiler

deserved her branding.

You shouldn't look here until you're done watching if you don't wanna be spoiled, because the OP clearly states that spoilers were required until the 24th, which was a week ago.

Finished the season last night and really liked it. So sad at Lolly, though. Immediately after her first flashback I had to go look up who was playing young Lolly as she was fantastic.

Whoa, I actually thought it was the same actor!

 

[dankir]

Goddamn Goddamn Goddamn. ... darkest season yet. Holy shit the last three episodes!!!

Spoiler

Rip Poussey
Wonder what the outcome of this will be, I though the small Latina that are the mouse would be the one to pick the gun up.... instead of Daya.

Can't wait for season 5!

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Jesus Christ at dat ending.

I was not ready.

 

[jett]

You shouldn't look here until you're done watching if you don't wanna be spoiled, because the OP clearly states that spoilers were required until the 24th, which was a week ago.

Whoa, I actually thought it was the same actor!

I made sure to not read a single post.

Anyway, I enjoyed this season until the final two episodes. P's death is just bullshit. Kill Chapman instead. Fucking garbage character. Worst main character ever.

 

[Persona7]

Shit man, amazing season. The death of Poussey hit me hard of course, but I was also really surprised how tough the final scene with Lolly was to watch. She might've been crazy, but those cries to Healy as they dragged her off were heartbreaking.


You do know that quote is from a book, right? She probably read those.

They also have access to TV. I frequently see game of thrones mentions on those pop culture shows that play during the daytime.

 

[GK86]

You shouldn't look here until you're done watching if you don't wanna be spoiled, because the OP clearly states that spoilers were required until the 24th, which was a week ago.

Whoa, I actually thought it was the same actor!

Technically you are right, the OP does state the 24th, but I wrote the wrong date since the spoiler thing was suppose to be until yesterday. Netflix shows are always two weeks out. Anyway, what's done is done. No biggie.

In any case, you are no longer required to spoiler tag your discussions.

 

[GruntOfAction]

That ending, holy shit. That is how you end a season.

 

[dankir]

Was this the first time we see how Suzanne ended up in jail? I swore we sat it in an earlier season and it wasn't as fucked up/depressing as what happened to her little friend

Also the whole side story about Louschek and Judy King and ummm Yoga lady was ridiculous lol.... epsecially with the Molly.

I swear I've never watched another show that has bits of slapstick comedy and just ludricrous stories while quickly shifting to some dark as fuck stuff on a dime.... dude the stories that the fat veteran was telling Bayley in the car when he was driving him home in the last episode??? FUKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK.

Spoiler

I have a feeling Bayley in S5 is going to rat out all the shitty COs to the press or something. I was kind of expecting it in the last episode of S4 but guess that's how he'll redeem himself next time we see him.

 

[spekkeh]

I have a different opinion from you guys it seems. I loved the first couple of episodes but really didn't like the grimdark nihilism that this season introduced. It doesn't gel with the rest of the series. It feels try hard and just unpleasant. I don't want 100% feel-good comedy but jeez dying kids and everything, not everything has to be like Daredevil.

 

[- J - D -]

I love this season so far, 5 episodes in. The pacing is perfect and the dynamics feel the best its been seen season 1.

 

[Oddduck]

I have a different opinion from you guys it seems. I loved the first couple of episodes but really didn't like the grimdark nihilism that this season introduced. It doesn't gel with the rest of the series. It feels try hard and just unpleasant. I don't want 100% feel-good comedy but jeez dying kids and everything, not everything has to be like Daredevil.

Honestly, I don't see how Season 4 is anymore "grimdark nihilism" than Season 1 and Season 2. The only reason that I can see someone feeling that way is because Season 3 was a much lighter, more comedy focused season.

Season 1 -- Piper nearly beats Dogget to death (while Mr. Healy did nothing to stop the fight)
Season 4 -- Suzanne nearly beat Kukudio to death (While the COs did nothing to stop it)

Season 1 -- Doggett and her group of followers try to stab Piper in the shower.
Season 4 -- Maria and her group of followers brand a swastika on Piper as she screams in pain.


Season 1 -- Trisha overdoses from drugs that CO Mendez sold her (after raping her in a closet) and then frames her death as a suicide by hanging her.
Season 4 -- Young CO Bayley uses too much force against Poussey and accidentally kills her. Caputo refuses to fire Baylee.

Season 1 -- Mendez (Pornstache) is raping inmates and selling them drugs
Season 4 -- Piscatella's team of COs are selling drugs, raping inmates, and racially profiling them.


Season 1 -- Red tries to starve Piper. Mendez (Pornstache) urinates into the Thanksgiving gravy.
Season 4 -- A CO forces Maritza to eat a baby mouse.

Season 1 -- Piper is thrown into the SHU because of "lesbian activity" (sexy dancing).
Season 4 -- Sophia is sent to the SHU "for her safety" (because she's transgender).

 

[Phased]

Since Season 2 the show has steadily moved focus away from Piper and switched to more of an ensemble focus on the entire cast, and it's been all the better for it.

I think Piper's weak storylines have a lot to do with this. How do you shift focus away from someone who was arguably your main character in S1/most of S2 and get people to care more about the rest of the cast? Make her boring as shit and give her trivial problems compared to everyone else.

I don't mind in the slightest. If you had told me during S1 that some of my favorite characters would end up being people like Boo and Doggett who come across as a little shallow in S1 I'd have laughed, but sure enough there it is.

 

[WaffleTaco]

Since Season 2 the show has steadily moved focus away from Piper and switched to more of an ensemble focus on the entire cast, and it's been all the better for it.

I think Piper's weak storylines have a lot to do with this. How do you shift focus away from someone who was arguably your main character in S1/most of S2 and get people to care more about the rest of the cast? Make her boring as shit and give her trivial problems compared to everyone else.

I don't mind in the slightest. If you had told me during S1 that some of my favorite characters would end up being people like Boo and Doggett who come across as a little shallow in S1 I'd have laughed, but sure enough there it is.

Well that's the thing...Piper's story is being slowed down since they got a renewal for Seasons 4, 5, 6, 7. She only had what 18 months in there, and hit the year point in either Season 2 or 3. Like only a month happened this season. Also it makes sense that Daya picked up the gun. The cliffhanger just opened it up for various ways in which someone can die. Also it's pretty interesting how they cleaned house with getting rid of a bunch of characters.

 

[spekkeh]

Honestly, I don't see how Season 4 is anymore "grimdark nihilism" than Season 1 and Season 2. The only reason that I can see someone feeling that way is because Season 3 was a much lighter, more comedy focused season.

Season 1 -- Piper nearly beats Dogget to death (while Mr. Healy did nothing to stop the fight)
Season 4 -- Suzanne nearly beat Kukudio to death (While the COs did nothing to stop it)

Season 1 -- Doggett and her group of followers try to stab Piper in the shower.
Season 4 -- Maria and her group of followers brand a swastika on Piper as she screams in pain.


Season 1 -- Trisha overdoses from drugs that CO Mendez sold her (after raping her in a closet) and then frames her death as a suicide by hanging her.
Season 4 -- Young CO Bayley uses too much force against Poussey and accidentally kills her. Caputo refuses to fire Baylee.

Season 1 -- Mendez (Pornstache) is raping inmates and selling them drugs
Season 4 -- Piscatella's team of COs are selling drugs, raping inmates, and racially profiling them.


Season 1 -- Red tries to starve Piper. Mendez (Pornstache) urinates into the Thanksgiving gravy.
Season 4 -- A CO forces Maritza to eat a baby mouse.

Season 1 -- Piper is thrown into the SHU because of "lesbian activity" (sexy dancing).
Season 4 -- Sophia is sent to the SHU "for her safety" (because she's transgender).

Pornstache was more a tragecomedic character, th one bad apple that got plenty of karma, the Piper Doggett fight was the season cliffhanger, the stabbing an almost stabbing (I didn't mind the branding btw, because it was the resolution to a story arc). The nihilism I found more was the innocent kid 'pushed' out the window for no specific story reason, the sadist Humps that had no denouement (well, maybe?) and a few other things I forgot.

Maybe I still need to adjust to an ensemble cast. It's okay if one of the main characters gets something nasty to endure because it signals character growth, whereas if it befalls a secondary character it is to set the mood. Maybe the point is there are no secondary characters and I need to wait till next season to see the resolution to the arc. But I felt that in previous seasons there might be one yuech moment, whereas in the last season there was one in each of the last five or six episodes.

It reminded me of Marco Polo s1 sex scenes, put in there for pandering.
Or worse, for people to talk about on Twitter.

 

[Oddduck]

The nihilism I found more was the innocent kid 'pushed' out the window for no specific story reason,

The scene is suppose to be a heartbreaking reminder that Suzanne (Crazy Eyes) has the mental age of a six-year-old child and doesn’t fully understand what she does wrong.

The accidental death of the kid makes the point that Suzanne's brain is also functioning like a kid.

 

[Fliesen]

To me, the flashback sequence of

Spoiler

Poussey's night out in New York looked very Wizard of Oz-ish .... She goes to this fantastic club, meets these 'strange' people (the 3! drag queens), and she just wants to find her way back home. The yellow robed monks resembling the yellow brick road she needed to follow. Seeing as they watched the Wiz a few episodes prior...

I loved this season. Season 3 was a drag.
This season gave so many side characters strong arc. Most importantly, Ruiz.

The only thing that pissed me off was how stupidly orchestrated

Spoiler

Poussey's death

was, without

Spoiler

a single person even TRYING to do CPR or anything. Taystee just started spooning her ... like ... shake her, try to wake her up. Just because she's unconcious doesn't mean she's dead.

 

[spekkeh]

The scene is suppose to be a heartbreaking reminder that Suzanne (Crazy Eyes) has the mental age of a six-year-old child and doesn’t fully understand what she does wrong.

The accidental death of the kid makes the point that Suzanne's brain is also functioning like a kid.

Yes, but this had been well established before.

 

[woolley]

Finished this over the weekend. Loved this season, easily the best one since season 1. I felt like the tried going too over the top with season 2 and 3 and it hurt the show. But with season 4 it feels like they brought it back down and things feel more believable.

 

[GK86]

Holy crap, what a season. Really powerful and emotional. I loved how dark the show became. The last episode was really well done.

I came to appreciate Lolly and Crazy Eyes even more. Seeing their backstories and how they got caught up in prison was sad to see. They are both sweethearts deep inside.

I was sad when

Spoiler

P was killed.

She was one of my favorite characters and I'm going to miss her.

The only thing I didn't like was the cliffhanger!

 

[Ipsoclipso]

Am I wrong to assume that Crazy Eyes is responsible for

Spoiler

P's

death?

 

[Stumpokapow]

Am I wrong to assume that Crazy Eyes is responsible for

Spoiler

P's

death?

i mean, if you think season 5 should have a plot about insurance adjusters determining proximate cause, then sure why not? but isn't the takeaway of the finale that sometimes there's not a clear answer for what "responsibility" means--and that things can just be a real tragic accident?

 

[someday]

Am I wrong to assume that Crazy Eyes is responsible for

Spoiler

P's

death?

I've seen others suggest this and I just don't agree.

 

[PR_rambo]

Spoiler

I don't think it was the afterlife, remember MCC found a picture of her at that rootz concert.

 

[Taruranto]

I'm at episode 4, I have to say, I'm quite enjoying this season.

I wasn't too much of a fan of season 3, but with this season it felt like the series has somewhat a direction again.