Full season
Me too, I'm just trying to think of scenario where Daya isn't written of the show by being sent to Max since it feels like they plan to keep her around because they set up two storylines with her at the end of the season.
Orange is the New Black S4 |OT| Welcome to the block - June 17th
- Thread starter GK86
- Start date
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Full season
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Yeah. The past two seasons have been all about how the Lichfield has gone from a decent correctional facility to a shitty dumping ground for human beings.
Caputo:
I do hope that he is able to win back the trust of the inmates, but I also do not see a situation in which he is not getting fucking fired.
I feel like the biggest running theme of the show is that everyone is utterly, irredeemably incompetent. No matter who they are.
So, as with last season, I felt the plotlines seemed to meander. The show is both kind of dull and frustrating most of the time but it has these really great highs and big moments that keep stringing you along. In general I like it but it doesn't have the central driving force of the first two seasons. The last few episodes were strong, though, and I really enjoyed episodes 12 and 13 overall.
But sometimes I feel like the show gets away with some ludicrous, unbelievable shit.
So, as with last season, I felt the plotlines seemed to meander. The show is both kind of dull and frustrating most of the time but it has these really great highs and big moments that keep stringing you along. In general I like it but it doesn't have the central driving force of the first two seasons. The last few episodes were strong, though, and I really enjoyed episodes 12 and 13 overall.
But sometimes I feel like the show gets away with some ludicrous, unbelievable shit.
This guard in episode 13 though...
The guards this season were something else.
"I don't know if this will help you feel better or not about accidentally killing an inmate, but in Afghanistan, I made a farm boy juggle grenades then shot him so he wouldn't tell anybody and I had sex with a local girl and strangled her because she would been killed anyway by the villagers anyway."
The guards this season were something else.
Agreed.
This show is at its best when it gets super intense, scary, and tragic.
Season 4 was full of these moments from beginning to end.
Great season. But those last few minutes were sort of annoying.
spoiler for the last episode
Some other issues I have with the season.
1)
2)
spoiler for the last episode
Why is it Darya the one holding the gun? There's really no set-up of her on being the dangerous one. I mean she started kicking with Maria's girls but she didn't even start peddling drugs. Just felt like her character did a complete 180. I don't expect her to shoot anyone but it just seems way off. She barely got any screen time too so it wasn't deserved.
Some other issues I have with the season.
1)
Sophia's comes back and that's it? She only gets acknowledged by one person. Although to be fair I forget the reason why was even in the SHU, but it just seems weird that no one cared that she was back.
2)
On the other hand, Nicholas comes back and she gets a big celebration but we have to go through the same plotline we had with her before. Felt redundant and could've been used for other characters, such as Darya cause of that ending.
Yeah... bad season, imo.
I feel like the show's in a rut and they just replace the big prison villain each season and run through the paces, barely giving any character their due since there are so many.
Piper is especially sidelined this season, acting like a total moron for most of it.
The real-world parallels are very clumsily handled.
It's like the showrunner watched a lot of Lost, thought it was as good as television could ever get.
TerminalDogma
Member
Finished watching it last night. Binged most of it throughout yesterday, actually. This was the best season of the show so far, with 1 just behind. I was not a fan of 2, and I actually enjoyed 3 for being a bit different but it still trails far behind season 1 and 4. While 3 didn't feel like it had a season wide story arc, I remember enjoying that it was just kind of looks at these women's lives from day to day, smaller arcs.
Surprised to see so many complaints about the flashbacks this season. They were NOT pointless. Each one was there for a reason, primarily tying an event from an inmates past into something currently happening (that episode, most of the time) to the character. They flesh the character out and, by taking the show out of the prison for a bit, change up the scenery.
The themes handled this season were tough, the way this season looks at all characters through different lights is amazing (well, most characters
). That's actually something I've always enjoyed about this show, is how it can show characters at their worst and at their best and have them coming away as actual people, who make mistakes.
Surprised to see so many complaints about the flashbacks this season. They were NOT pointless. Each one was there for a reason, primarily tying an event from an inmates past into something currently happening (that episode, most of the time) to the character. They flesh the character out and, by taking the show out of the prison for a bit, change up the scenery.
The themes handled this season were tough, the way this season looks at all characters through different lights is amazing (well, most characters
the veteran guards were almost all shown to be huge pieces of shit, though I expect this to change next season.
RageWaffles
Member
Whole season, mainly episodes 12 and 13:
fuck this. I'd really been liking this season, even including the flashbacks. But everything about P's death was dumb. I get that her death and how it's handled is a commentary and reflection of the real world, but it feels cheap and insensitive to use the "ripped from the headlines" details about the fairly recent deaths of actual people. Beyond that, what was the point of her death? I guess to acknowledge BLM issues? ...I dunno. It just doesn't sit well with me, but I don't know anything
Bringing back Sophia just to have pretty much everyone ignore her seems clumsy, but I guess they had to make sure everyone was in place for the riot. And Daryawhat's with her character totally changing in such a short time? I get that her mom isn't watching over her shoulder now and that she's with a rougher crowd, but isn't that pretty much how it was when she was young, too? And the new guards are so cartoonishly evil and one-dimensional.
And what the hell was with the look that flashback-Poussey gave to camera for the final moment of the season? Maybe that's Netflix's new thing, but at least it made sense on House of Cards.
Season spoilers
The familiar beats really bothered me, mainly nicky and her drug addiction. I love that character, she has so much potential, but all she wants is fuck and do drugs. I really dont get it.
The Piper nazi thing came and wnt, and no one gave a shit. I thought oh shit, she has reservations, but maria branded her, so he has no choice but to pretend she is a white power woman to get the defense she needs. That would be a great arc, and her realization of how awful she is could have come slowly from the things she would need to do tostay safe. But no, all done in an episode. Very stupid
Its been said before, but burset comes back and no one gives a shit. Stupid.
I like that the guards are real threats again, but they went waaay overboard here. They come from the worse cliches of comic book vilains. They couldnt even pinpoint one to be the main bad guy, humps was a psycho, piscatella had no real motivation to do what he was doing, except a nod from caputo taht he was crazy and thats why he left max. Stupid.
Pussay death broke me, I got teary eyed at her death and episode 13 and her scenes. I do believe that was her heaven, and it makes sense. Its like Litchfield´s soul died, she was the one that brought joy from within to that prison, she was one of the unique characters that could kickstart awesome arcs, so as effective her death was, it was stupid to kill her.
Daya picking up the gun, really..... I cant even begin to think why that was the person they chose, it makes no sense.
I read the article someone posted questioning the all white writers, and I agree. A show like this, without a latino and african american perspective is doing half of the job its supposed to be doing. I am sure poussay would not have died and daya would not have picked up the gun had the writers be given more diverse points of view.
The Piper nazi thing came and wnt, and no one gave a shit. I thought oh shit, she has reservations, but maria branded her, so he has no choice but to pretend she is a white power woman to get the defense she needs. That would be a great arc, and her realization of how awful she is could have come slowly from the things she would need to do tostay safe. But no, all done in an episode. Very stupid
Its been said before, but burset comes back and no one gives a shit. Stupid.
I like that the guards are real threats again, but they went waaay overboard here. They come from the worse cliches of comic book vilains. They couldnt even pinpoint one to be the main bad guy, humps was a psycho, piscatella had no real motivation to do what he was doing, except a nod from caputo taht he was crazy and thats why he left max. Stupid.
Pussay death broke me, I got teary eyed at her death and episode 13 and her scenes. I do believe that was her heaven, and it makes sense. Its like Litchfield´s soul died, she was the one that brought joy from within to that prison, she was one of the unique characters that could kickstart awesome arcs, so as effective her death was, it was stupid to kill her.
Daya picking up the gun, really..... I cant even begin to think why that was the person they chose, it makes no sense.
I read the article someone posted questioning the all white writers, and I agree. A show like this, without a latino and african american perspective is doing half of the job its supposed to be doing. I am sure poussay would not have died and daya would not have picked up the gun had the writers be given more diverse points of view.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
How do you figure that?
Someone in that writing room could present a balance to save that character. Nicky could have easily be caught up in that, trying to save someone, and redeemed herself, for instance.
Even episode 13 with a nicky focused flashback could have worked like poussay did. Im not saying the writers exclusively chose a minority to die there because she was a minority, but if a minority writer was present, they could present other narrative options.
In my view that is the main gain of diversity, different points of view
Even episode 13 with a nicky focused flashback could have worked like poussay did. Im not saying the writers exclusively chose a minority to die there because she was a minority, but if a minority writer was present, they could present other narrative options.
In my view that is the main gain of diversity, different points of view
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
I certainly agree a lack of diverse voices in this particular writer's room is legitimately shocking, I think Pousey ended up the victim for solely dramatic reasons, not because white writers considered black characters disposable. I guess that was my main source of confusion from your statement.
I agree that there should be more diverse voices in the writer's room, but I don't think a lack of black writers has anything to do with
why Poussey was killed.
For example:
Poussey's death highlights how selfish Nicky has been with her life. Poussey has always been high on life. Nicky has always been high on drugs and has had a million close calls where she's almost died.
But the person who is "high on life" is the one who ends up dying -- not the person who is constantly high on drugs. And I think Nicky even mentions this to Morello in one scene.
This season was commentary on Black Lives Matters and "I can't breath". You can't do a story on such a serious topic (especially in a prison setting) without some kind of sad tragedy to put it all in perspective. And Poussey is one of the few people that would make audiences emotional.
But the person who is "high on life" is the one who ends up dying -- not the person who is constantly high on drugs. And I think Nicky even mentions this to Morello in one scene.
This season was commentary on Black Lives Matters and "I can't breath". You can't do a story on such a serious topic (especially in a prison setting) without some kind of sad tragedy to put it all in perspective. And Poussey is one of the few people that would make audiences emotional.
I can see that. I still thimk they could make it work with another character, but I have to admit that the way it happened worked.
Finished the season. I wasn't really feeling it.
It had some really powerful, sad moments dealing with commentary on mental illness as well as the BLM movement. Outside of those moments the season just didn't resonate. It was constantly jumping around in narrative without accomplishing anything. Piper is trying to be gangster! Except now the Dominicans took that over. Oh but that's causing racial tensions and potential gang violence! Except nothing will actually happen with that. It just felt unfocused.
I felt like you at first...but after finishing it I disagree now. I think the fact it isn't focused is what makes it feel more real. Life is never focused, and shit happens.
SapphiCine
Member
My partner told me that
(major spoilers) and now I want nothing to do with this season or show. Goddamn it.
Poussey dies
While I can appreciate that sentiment, it didn't make for an overall enjoyable season for me unfortunately.
I'd still let him pound the f outta me
freeofgreed
Member
Just finished it. I almost didn't even bother with this season but I was bored and ended up binging almost the whole season in a day. Idk what happened in the back room but this season was amazing and easily the best season in the show so far. The plotlines were much stronger and the season had some really powerful moments.
My only issues were:
Yeah that actress was amazing. Capture the look, voice and personality perfectly.
My only issues were:
1) Flashbacks seemed really weak. I don't mind them when they're relevant but a lot of them felt forced and only detracted from the much more interesting present day plotlines.
2) Nicky's plotline was repetitive as hell. We already went through this same exact scenario for the past 3 seasons. What was the point of bringing her back if they had nothing interesting planed for her?
2) Nicky's plotline was repetitive as hell. We already went through this same exact scenario for the past 3 seasons. What was the point of bringing her back if they had nothing interesting planed for her?
Yeah that actress was amazing. Capture the look, voice and personality perfectly.
On episode 13, finally.
Why is it that:
Every man on this show is
And Chapman is still an
Other than that, maaaaan this season got dark dark dark. Better than last season, IMO, but I miss the old guys
Why is it that:
Every man on this show is
presented as incompetent buffoon or a troglodyte?
insufferable self centered ass?
Other than that, maaaaan this season got dark dark dark. Better than last season, IMO, but I miss the old guys
like Pornstache, the COs that walked out, one legged John Bennett, Austrailian Justin Bieber, Caputo's manhood...
I'm really going to miss Pousay... next to Blanca, she was my favorite character. I also hope Daya's mom stays out of jail, and doesn't just pop up again next season like Tasty after her own realease.
The One and Done
Member
Episode 12
Dusktildawn48
Member
Just finished episode 11
did they seriously just kill off my favorite fucking character?!?
Tony Iron Man Stark
Banned
RockTurtle
Member
too bad about piscatella
he was the only competent authority in the show, and now he's a mustache twirling caricature.
Dusktildawn48
Member
One less major reason to watch Orange is the New Black.
Still love the show, but she was one of the few good people on the show.
Finished!
I'll have to agree with the opinion that the minorities were hella cliche:
Blacks
Latinas
Whites
Others/Browns
COs
I do like how they tackled certain issues like:
Not a bad season, but like mentioned, I think they would benefit from a more diverse writing staff (if it is indeed not very diverse).
I'll have to agree with the opinion that the minorities were hella cliche:
Blacks
always angry and unreasonable, sans Poussay, who felt like the only voice of reason.
either lackeys or pushers. Daya's mother and Gloria being the only standouts.
well... everyone aside from Voss, Chapman, Red, Punxsutawney, Carrie, and Lorna were white supremacist/hillbillies/meth-heads and not very developed.
like the poor overweight pacific islander who became a mere plot device instead of an actual person with backstory.
while not a racial minority, felt like the product of a meeting of how to find something worse than Pornstasche. But they made them too over the top and evil just for evil's sake. Like a cartoon parody.
I do like how they tackled certain issues like:
Imprisonment and mistreatment of the mentally ill, abuse, for-profit prisons, #icantbreathe, celebrity prisoner treatment, and interracial relationships.
Not a bad season, but like mentioned, I think they would benefit from a more diverse writing staff (if it is indeed not very diverse).
Pornstache was the only good "bad guard". I feel like they added this army guy to mess things up again, but he's no Pornstache, and his shittiness isn't that nerving either. I don't really feel any tension with him.
I thought CO Thomas (this guy) was pretty screwed up in the head.
He was the one who forced Maritza Ramos to eat a live baby mouse. And then he forced Crazy Eyes to beat that one girl into a bloody pulp over a $20 bet.
He might lack the "charm" of Pornstache, but he's definitely creepy.
He was the one who forced Maritza Ramos to eat a live baby mouse. And then he forced Crazy Eyes to beat that one girl into a bloody pulp over a $20 bet.
He might lack the "charm" of Pornstache, but he's definitely creepy.
RumblingRosco
Member
My response to this (full season spoilers):
I said that same thing during the episode. It was too perfect of an adventure. You don't just meet all those amazing people and have that good of a time without something horrible going wrong. It felt too ideal, and my thought was that she was experiencing this all as a brief moment in time as she was dying. I didn't connect it to the "perfect place" thing however (totally forgot about that). Basically, I think you're 100% correct.
My thoughts on the season overall (also full season spoilers):
We had thirteen episodes in which almost zero plots were resolved:
1) Sophia was let out of the SHU. There's one resolution, although it was anti-climatic.
2) Guards are assholes. Nothing happens, we're left at a huge cliff-hanger.
3) Caputo loses control of his guards/prison. No resolution.
4) The three "gangs" hate each other and tension bubbles up all season. No resolution.
5) Caputo's girlfriend is obviously insane and has some skeletons in her closet. No resolution.
6) The inmates have no/not enough jobs. No resolution.
7) Mr. Healy is suicidal. No resolution.
8) The corpse of the assassin is exhumed and Lolly gets sent to psych, so there's some resolution there (although even that story is incomplete most likely due to Alex's notes that were floating around - I doubt they burned them all).
9) Honestly, you can look at nearly every single inmates' storyline and see an incomplete arc.
I'm not saying it was a bad season, but I left it feeling unfulfilled. It was a lot of great tension with very few endings, IMO, and that's just frustrating. I feel like there is now a one year wait to see how 10-20 stories end, which to me is just not what I like in a TV show. I liked OITNB S1 and S2 quite a lot, and S3 was a bit dull but still generally OK to me, but S4 felt like a weird mix of the first three seasons, but with a lack of resolutions.
1) Sophia was let out of the SHU. There's one resolution, although it was anti-climatic.
2) Guards are assholes. Nothing happens, we're left at a huge cliff-hanger.
3) Caputo loses control of his guards/prison. No resolution.
4) The three "gangs" hate each other and tension bubbles up all season. No resolution.
5) Caputo's girlfriend is obviously insane and has some skeletons in her closet. No resolution.
6) The inmates have no/not enough jobs. No resolution.
7) Mr. Healy is suicidal. No resolution.
8) The corpse of the assassin is exhumed and Lolly gets sent to psych, so there's some resolution there (although even that story is incomplete most likely due to Alex's notes that were floating around - I doubt they burned them all).
9) Honestly, you can look at nearly every single inmates' storyline and see an incomplete arc.
I'm not saying it was a bad season, but I left it feeling unfulfilled. It was a lot of great tension with very few endings, IMO, and that's just frustrating. I feel like there is now a one year wait to see how 10-20 stories end, which to me is just not what I like in a TV show. I liked OITNB S1 and S2 quite a lot, and S3 was a bit dull but still generally OK to me, but S4 felt like a weird mix of the first three seasons, but with a lack of resolutions.
Wasn't this season supposed to be the last? The title of episode 12 "Animals" made me think that as it is the title of the opening song and that would explain to me why we did not get proper closure because they would like to keep it for next year.
Regarding your point concerning Healy: he still dealt with his depression, he interned himself in an asylum.
Regarding your point concerning Healy: he still dealt with his depression, he interned himself in an asylum.
Was she on Tinder while in the toilet? She was swiping right on her phone? Poor Joe, why are you attracted to such women?
I feel like they'd give a glimpse of the screen if this was meant to be the point, and they also made a point of saying (repeatedly) that Linda has a thing for chasing people in the MCC power structure for her own benefit. Tinder would throw that primary motivator into question.
I believe the purpose of the scene was to show how completely oblivious and vulnerable she is to everything that actually goes on at the ground level of a prison, this was her first visit and she's poking away at her phone on the toilet when there's a full-on riot going on like 20 feet away.
I believe the purpose of the scene was to show how completely oblivious and vulnerable she is to everything that actually goes on at the ground level of a prison, this was her first visit and she's poking away at her phone on the toilet when there's a full-on riot going on like 20 feet away.
WorriedCitizen
Member
I liked this season a lot. Only two things bothered me. The end felt rushed and didn't fit quite in, like there were still two episodes missing. And then the plot with the dead hitman. You would think if this were to happen in reality that all hell would break lose and the authorities would actualy give some serious shits about finding out who he was and what happend exactly.
Sickboy007
Member
I see where you're coming from Caputo.
I see where you're coming from Caputo.
Taystity
I think I heard it perfectly stated by someone that OitNB is basically oppression porn. Things keep happening and I feel like there is no critique of it. It's just like oh this bad thing happens look how bad it is. Isn't that fucked up? I don't know if that made any sense.
(General spoilers through out the season)
(General spoilers through out the season)
And yea it's pretty clear that this show was written by mostly white women. Like that scene with Soso saying the N word for literally no reason. It didn't even make sense in her analogy. And when Cindy said that black people can be just as racist as anybody else... lmao did she not notice the privilege of Judy King, Yoga Jones, and the white supremacists? It was very tone deaf. It all felt like an outsiders perspective on racism, which is what it essentially was.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Flaca is the cutest
Such cute bangs
Such cute bangs
- Status