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Oscar Pistorius found guilty of culpable homicide

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Deaf Spacker

Memb
The parents of Reeva Steenkamp say "justice was not served" after South African athlete Oscar Pistorius was acquitted of murdering their daughter.

June and Barry Steenkamp told NBC News of their "disbelief" that the court had believed Pistorius's version of events.

Judge Thokozile Masipa found him guilty of the lesser charge of culpable homicide, saying the state had failed to prove he intended to kill.

Pistorius has been allowed bail ahead of sentencing on 13 October.

Judge Masipa said the athlete had acted "negligently" when he shot his girlfriend through a toilet door, but in the "belief that there was an intruder".

The Paralympic sprinter had strenuously denied murdering Ms Steenkamp after a row on Valentine's Day last year, saying he shot her by mistake.

But in the interview with NBC, June Steenkamp said: "This verdict is not justice for Reeva.

"I just want the truth. He shot through the door and I can't believe that they believe it was an accident."
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Oscar Pistorius verdict: Steenkamp family protest.
 
S

SporeCrawler

Member
i think that people are criticizing the judge yet they are missing that the prosecutor and the police failed to really convincingly prove that pistorius shot knowing that there was a person behind the bathroom door (whomever it was the burglar or reeva) in a position that would have been fatal.

that was the key all along and the prosecutor focused on what reeva ate and what whatsapp messages they sent and who woke up in the night to hear a scream or whatnot.

those were peripheral things that can be small details but hardly hard proof.

people need to realize that in any modern democracy criminal law says "in dubio pro reo" and when the prosecutor failed to dish out evidence that leads to a guilty verdict thats not the judges fault because that is not their job.
News Bot said:
You make it sound like courts are infallible. That's a mighty fine fantasy world you've got there.
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you do realize that its not the courts job to provide proof that someone is guilty. police and the DA just failed providing hard facts and did a bad job, judge sees not enough evidence and says in dubio pro reo

how is the judge blamed?
4444244 said:
Of course, we don't live in perfect world after all.

If the case is appealed and the decision reversed so be it, until then I will tend to err with the court's decision rather than speculation.
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unless there is new evidence or the judge applied law in a wrong way that is unlikely
 
L

liquidtmd

Banned
In absence of any actual witnesses to the events of the night, the Prosecution had to build around what evidence they did have - whatsapp texts, a man with a reckless abandon with weapons, food consumed by Reeva to cast doubt on Pistorius' timeline of the evening.

The Prosecution succeeded in making him contradict himself, change his story and painted him solidly as a shitty witness. The Judge said he was a shitty witness - but in the abscene of any other witnesses, they have to take him at face value. In terms of commentary in todays press from lawyers, an appeal from the prosecution may have traction for Murder itself - some legal heads are scratching their heads at parts of the Judges summation apparently.
 
n64coder

n64coder

Member
In the US, he can't ever be retried for the murder charged. What about in South Africa? Can the prosecution try again other than appeal?
 
P

protomouse

Member
liquidtmd said:
Its 3am. You live in a house with your one sole partner. No one else is in the house. They are asleep.
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It's a sense of privacy. I live by myself, so by rational reasoning there's little risk of anyone else walking in on my bathroom duties. Yet, I still lock the bathroom door because I can't have piece of mind otherwise. You'd better believe I'd lock that door if anyone else was around. :p

I hope her family can finally find some closure. Murder trials must be the fucking worst thing.
 
L

liquidtmd

Banned
syllogism said:
This is the most comprehensive criticism of the judgement I've seen so far.

http://criminallawza.net/2014/09/13/pistorius-remains-in-jeopardy-of-a-murder-conviction/

The written judgement hasn't been made available yet, so it's possible some of the issues raised here are addressed by it.
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Multiple other legal sources are mulling the same thing. I hope these things are clarified by the written summation - if not, I hope the prosecution appeal against the ruling to address these issues head on.
 
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syllogism

Member
Full judgment

http://constitutionallyspeaking.co....Pistorius-Judgment-Masipa-J-2014-09-11-12.pdf

I skimmed the sections involving dolus eventualis and at first glace it doesn't seem to clarify things. When dealing with the objective test it does note that a reasonable person would have foreseen the death, but the subjective side seems to revolve mostly around whether the accused thought the deceased might be in the toilet.

First: Would a reasonable person in the same circumstances as the accused, have foreseen the reasonable possibility that, if he fired four shots at the door of the toilet, whoever was behind the door, might be struck by a bullet and die as a result?

The second question is: Would a reasonable person have taken steps to guard against that possibility?

The answer to both questions is yes.

The last question is: Did the accused fail to take steps which he should reasonably have taken to guard against the consequence?

Again the answer is, yes. He failed to take any step to avoid the resultant death
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e:
It follows that the accused’s erroneous belief that his life was in danger excludes dolus. The accused therefore cannot be found guilty
of murder dolus eventualis.
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This is essentially why I thought dolus eventualis might not be applicable
 
D

Deaf Spacker

Memb
Oscar Pistorius is free to race for his country again despite being a convicted killer, the South African Olympic committee has said.

Tubby Reddy, chief executive of the South African Sports Confederation and Olympic committee, told the Associated Press (AP): “As he stands right now, he’s free (to compete).”

Pistorius potentially faces up to 15 years in prison after being convicted of the South African equivalent of manslaughter, but could also receive a suspended sentence and avoid jail altogether when he returns to court on 13 October.

Reddy said that, as long as judge Thokozile Masipa does not make any ruling that prevents it, Pistorius is at liberty to run in South African colours again. The International Paralympic Committee has already said he could resume his career once he has served any sentence, describing him as “a fundamental ambassador of the Paralympic movement”.

Pistorius, 27, is known to be working out regularly at a gym to maintain his fitness. Last year the athlete, known as the “blade runner” because of his prosthetic limbs, was cleared to run overseas after appealing his bail terms, but chose not to while he focused on his murder trial.

His agent, Peet van Zyl, said competing now was not an option but he and Pistorius would “sit down and take stock” after his sentencing hearing. “It’s all up to Oscar,” he told the AP. “He must decide what he wants to do. I don’t know what his mindset is now. I will sit down with him. Is he keen or is he not keen?”

Meanwhile, it has emerged that security for Masipa has been stepped up in the wake of her controversial decision to acquit Pistorius of murder. South Africa’s City Press newspaper reported that the police’s tactical response team is stationed outside her home and “escorts her wherever she goes, and checks on her every hour”. It quoted a source saying the officers had been “extra cautious” since the judgment.
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Link.
 
L

liquidtmd

Banned
he could resume his career once he has served any sentence, describing him as “a fundamental ambassador of the Paralympic movement”.
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Any criminal deserves the opportunity to reitergrate with society once serving their time. They should be allowed to resume their day jobs...but sport is a ultimately a commercial venture these days. And the role of ambassador should be an inspirational one.

Whatever the judge ruled its not contested that he was a shitty self serving witness, has a history of recklessness with guns, a short paranoid temprement and ultimately he blew that woman away whether he meant to or not. Im not sure that meshes well with the pedestal he once stood on.
 
M

markot

Banned
Is it usual in s Africa for things to take this long?

Hope he gets a long time. Probably won't.

Sounds like there week be an appeal in any event. The original decision seems off.
 
M

markot

Banned
Think there will be an appeal. Its terrible. 5 years for shooting wildly at 'an intruder' behind a door knowing full well he could kill them? (And thats on his account of the story, not the likely, and all too common, event of domestic muder of a woman by an angry and controlling boyfriend)
 
D

Deaf Spacker

Memb
WTF he's been granted bail?!
South African Olympic athlete Oscar Pistorius has been granted bail while he awaits sentence for murdering his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp in 2013.

Judges changed his conviction from manslaughter to murder last week. He has already served one year in prison.

Pistorius now faces a minimum sentence of 15 years' imprisonment - to be set after a hearing on 18 April 2016.

He will also appeal against his murder conviction in the Constitutional Court, his lawyer has said.
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Link.
 
H

hobblygobbly

Member
Deaf Spacker said:
WTF he's been granted bail?!


Link.
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According to this South African source there are restrictions which seems to be missing from the BBC article:

Pretoria - The High Court in Pretoria has granted murder-convicted Oscar Pistorius bail of R10 000 on Tuesday.

Deputy Judge President Aubrey Ledwaba said Pistorius must be electronically monitored.

Pistorius will only be allowed to travel within a radius of 20km around his uncle's Waterkloof home, where he was previously serving under correctional supervision for his original sentence of culpable homicide.

He will be allowed to leave the home between 07:00 and midday, and will need written permission from the investigating officer to leave the house outside of those hours.
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http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/oscar-granted-r10-000-bail-20151208
 
T

thefro

Member
Probably the right decision in the end but it always bugs me that the prosecution can appeal verdicts in other countries.
 
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