Oscar Pistorius shoots girlfriend - dead

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Maybe I'm wrong, but I think gated communities in Africa are a bit of a different caliber than the ones in America.

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Is that a picture of one of the gates from his community? Because when I saw NBC reporting outside of his it was a gate that looked very much like you would see in Florida.
 
Facts are not all known yet and we cannot know them all until the trial.

Is he a murderer? Yes. Did he commit what we would legally define as homicide?

That will differ by jurisdiction and by legal precedent.

Even in the US, the definition of homicide changes based on circumstances. Stand Your Ground, Castle Doctrine being good examples and in both cases, applicability is proven through a trial based on the known facts presented at trial.

It's premature to make damning judgements without all of the known facts.

I'm pretty sure even if someone was stealing your TV you couldn't simply execute them with lethal force without demonstrating that your life was in immediate danger.
 
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think gated communities in Africa are a bit of a different caliber than the ones in America.

090703150400_06.razorurd9u.jpg

Dude, that's like a Safari Lol!

The gated communities I've been to in South Africa (Cape Town, Port Elizabeth and Jo'burg) were all comparable to the gated communities that you'd see in the United States. A bit more gated/secure, but nothing like in that picture, at least from what I've seen first hand.
 
I'm pretty sure even if someone was stealing your TV you couldn't simply execute them with lethal force without demonstrating that your life was in immediate danger.

If an intruder is inside my house robbing me, I very well could and would. I have a wife, a young daughter and toddler son. I don't have a gun and I'm not going to just blindly go crazy unless I'm absolutely sure its an intruder robbing my house, but I'm pretty sure I'll use lethal force if its available to me via a knife, machete, etc.
 
If an intruder is inside my house robbing me, I very well could and would. I have a wife, a young daughter and toddler son. I don't have a gun and I'm not going to just blindly go crazy unless I'm absolutely sure its an intruder robbing my house, but I'm pretty sure I'll use lethal force if its available to me via a knife, machete, etc.

What if they break in and just have to use the toilet?
 
Let me get this right, he knew his gf was sleeping next to him but when he hears noises his first reaction is to put four bullets into her after chasing her to the bathroom instead of asking "hey, is that you?" like any sane person would?
Yeh, this. He goes over to the bed to get his gun yet he doesn't even think of looking in the bed just on the offchance that y'know, it may be his gf that's in the bathroom? Makes no sense.
 
No, this is what the gate in question looks like

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Though that's just the entrance which probably is guarded 24/7. I wonder what the other security measures look like.

btw. That picture with the razorwires etc. is from Johannesburg
Dude, that's like a Safari Lol!

The gated communities I've been to in South Africa (Cape Town, Port Elizabeth and Jo'burg) were all comparable to the gated communities that you'd see in the United States. A bit more gated/secure, but nothing like in that picture, at least from what I've seen first hand.
When I spend some time in Namibia I was a little amazed by all the security. Felt like all the houses were little castles.

But well, that's Namibia and not South Africa and I've never been to America which means I'm not able to make a direct comparison, so I'm not going to question your assessment.
 
I noticed that the affidavit has a bit more detail

"During the early morning hours of 14 February 2013, I woke up, went onto the balcony to bring the fan in and closed the sliding doors, the blinds and the curtains. I heard a noise in the bathroom and realized that someone was in the bathroom. ... I felt a sense of terror rushing over me. ...

"I believed that someone had entered my house. I was too scared to switch a light on.

"I grabbed my 9mm pistol from underneath my bed. On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police. It was pitch dark in the bedroom and I thought Reeva was in bed. I noticed that the bathroom window was open. I realized that the intruder/s was/were in the toilet because the toilet door was closed and I did not see anyone in the bathroom. ...
It seems that according to his version of the events there was at least some time for Reeva to react to the shout. I'm a bit confused as to how he noticed that the bathroom window was open and what he means by saying that he didn't see anyone in the bathroom. Also he seems to imply that the bathroom lights were off.

e: Ah, the bathroom is the larger room
 
Poor woman must have been terrified. I wonder if we'll ever found out what set this psycho off. Probably ran out of his meds or something.
 
I noticed that the affidavit has a bit more detail


It seems that according to his version of the events there was at least some time for Reeva to react to the shout. I'm a bit confused as to how he noticed that the bathroom window was open and what he means by saying that he didn't see anyone in the bathroom. Also he seems to imply that the bathroom lights were off.

I dont get how you get from this to shooting, i really do not, there are so many gaps and there is absolutely 0 evidence to show that there was immediate threat and he shot in retaliation.
 
http://mm.thestar.com/news/world/ar...ar-animates-much-of-south-african-lives-kelly

On my first night in Johannesburg, I accidentally shut the rape door behind me, trapping myself in the bedroom.
Most middle-class homes in South Africa feature ‘rape doors’ — sliding jail doors that compartmentalize a house so that no intruder can get at you if — and this is the phrase commonly used — “your perimeter is breached.”
It was funny for a minute. Then I realized that since all the windows in the bedroom were barred, I had no way to get out in case of a fire.
We phoned the couple we’d rented our pleasant bungalow from and explained the situation. The owner laughed a long time, and then said he’d be by in the morning to release me.
South Africans are afraid of many things. Fire ranks very low on the list.
This is the atmosphere in which Oscar Pistorius’s credulity stretching explanation of why he shot girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp to death as she cowered in a bathroom will be received. It’s the reason he’s going to get off.
We spent six weeks there covering the 2010 World Cup. There is no sufficient way to explain the paranoia about home security that grips average South Africans, except to say that fear animates much of their lives. The home we rented was typical.
It was surrounded by 10-foot walls. The walls were topped by electric fencing. When you look down a Jo’burg street, it gives the appearance of the frontage of a prison — all high walls, topped by electric fencing (for the well off) or razor wire (for the not-so-well off).
A submarine door accessed the street, but we were warned never to use it. People enter and exit using the garage door, which was solid-oak, three-inches thick and would not stop once it began coming down. This is to prevent anyone driving in behind you as you enter — an infamous home-invasion tactic.
Inside were the aforementioned rape doors. There was a gun locker (empty) in the master bedroom. Each room had a white button labeled ‘Panic.’
“What happens if I hit the button?” I asked the landlord as lightly as possible. I presumed it triggered a silent alarm. No, it summons the private-security company that is constantly roaming the neighbourhood in SUVs with blacked-out windows. The country is wracked by violence, but South Africans do not trust the police and would not bother calling them.
“If you hit that button, someone will be here in 90 seconds with a machine gun,” he said. He wasn’t kidding.

Wow.
 
He says he will submit a witness statement to the effect that a woman heard non-stop fighting between 2am and 3am on the morning of Reeva Steenkamp's death.

Steenkamp was dressed when she was shot, he says.
There were three entrance wounds on Steenkamp's body: one on the right side of her head above her ear, one in her right arm, which broke her arm, and one at her hip.
He says the shots were aimed at the toilet bowl. The toilet itself is in the room and to the left. You wouldn't hit the toilet itself if you fired straight at the door, he says; you'd miss it.
Botha says the fact the shots hit Steenkamp on her right-hand side indicates she was not sitting on the toilet but was hiding in a different position.
Botha says the police think the gunman walked into the bathroom, faced the wall where the window was and fired straight at the toilet door.
He also has a house in Italy and off-shore accounts, there is no way he is getting bail
Mr Botha says Pistorius and his family tried to get at his offshore accounts shortly after the crime. His brother Carl arrived with a lawyer and a locksmith to open a safe in the kitchen that had a memory stick with the account numbers.

It sounds like they will be able to confirm whether he was wearing his prosthetic legs or not when he fired, based on the angles of the projectiles. Based on preliminary findings, the angle of the bullets was downwards from a "normal" stance, which indicates that Pistorious was standing at a normal height. The also confirmed finding two boxes of testoserone (actually it was testis compasitium, herbal medicine) and needles at the house. The gun holster was found on the same side of the bed where Steenkamp was likely sleeping.
 
The witness first heard an argument, then two gunshot, then a female screaming and finally two more gunshots. The lights were on. There is another witness who also heard the scream.

e: sounds like the defense is doing pretty well casting doubt during cross examination. The witness, however, claims the two volleys of shots were 17 minutes apart.

e2: the witness apparently lives 600m away from Pistorius. Testosterone was supposedly herbal remedy and not a banned substance. Impressive and interesting performance so far from the defense. The investigating officer seems completely unprepared. The witnesses sound completely unreliable and prosecution is exaggerating the significance of their pieces of evidence.
 
Holy shit, I can't believe how idiotic the investigating officer is. It seems that they've set out to nail Oscar for deliberately killing Reeva without considering that it was an honest mistake.
 
Question: If South Africa is crazy dangerous all the time with possible intruders in even the most protected communities, why doesn't someone rich like Oscar move to a better country?
 
I noticed that the affidavit has a bit more detail


It seems that according to his version of the events there was at least some time for Reeva to react to the shout. I'm a bit confused as to how he noticed that the bathroom window was open and what he means by saying that he didn't see anyone in the bathroom. Also he seems to imply that the bathroom lights were off.

There's an intruder in the house, so he decides to not even try to wake his mrs and sneaks out the room so she doesn't wake up and pops 4 caps through the bathroom door....

Don't know about you but first thing I'd do is wake the mrs up and tell her to hide or something before I went all Rambo at shit.

Holy shit, I can't believe how idiotic the investigating officer is. It seems that they've set out to nail Oscar for deliberately killing Reeva without considering that it was an honest mistake.

Thats his job....
 
The witness who heard fighting was 600m away. Apparently there was laughter in court when that was revealed.

Official on prosecution side saying "we're in trouble".

Sounds like they had a shocker.
 
There's an intruder in the house, so he decides to not even try to wake his mrs and sneaks out the room so she doesn't wake up and pops 4 caps through the bathroom door....

Don't know about you but first thing I'd do is wake the mrs up and tell her to hide or something before I went all Rambo at shit.



Thats his job....
It's not.

His job is to investigate the incident from a point of neutrality.

Not to assume it is cold blooded murder and seek out evidence which supports that claim.
 
It's not.

His job is to investigate the incident from a point of neutrality.

Not to assume it is cold blooded murder and seek out evidence which supports that claim.

Bingo.

From what I've read so far today it sounds like a very biased investigation. The witnesses are a joke, apparently the drugs are legal and there's a dispute about where Oscar was when he fired the gun.

We all know that he shot and killed Reeva, but it sounds like the police may be trying to nail him for premeditated murder when it wasn't.
 
@BBCAndrew H is tweeting live from Courtroom.

Quotes a junior prosecution official as saying "We're in terrible trouble" when leaving the court room for lunch.
 
Bingo.

From what I've read so far today it sounds like a very biased investigation. The witnesses are a joke, apparently the drugs are legal and there's a dispute about where Oscar was when he fired the gun.

We all know that he shot and killed Reeva, but it sounds like the police may be trying to nail him for premeditated murder when it wasn't.

I don't think your conclusion of an "honest mistake" paints a very good picture of Pistorious (he apparently accidental shot a gun in a restaurant before, an incident one of his friends apparently took the fall for) - he still acted highly irresponsibly.

But the prosecution appears to be pretty incompetent so far, the witness seemed extremely unprepared and misinformed. Oscar's story seems rather absurd, but without a competent prosecution the judge may have no other choice but to reduce the maximum possible sentence.

@BBCAndrew H is tweeting live from Courtroom.

Quotes a junior prosecution official as saying "We're in terrible trouble" when leaving the court room for lunch.

Why would any prosecutor say anything like this in public? Unbelievably stupid!
 
I don't think your conclusion of an "honest mistake" paints a very good picture of Pistorious (he apparently accidental shot a gun in a restaurant before, an incident one of his friends apparently took the fall for) - he still acted highly irresponsibly.

But the prosecution appears to be pretty incompetent so far, the witness seemed extremely unprepared and misinformed. Oscar's story seems rather absurd, but without a competent prosecution the judge may have no other choice but to reduce the maximum possible sentence.

Everybody makes mistakes, ok not quite as severe as Oscar's alleged mistake but still.

Oscar may have made a mistake, if he did should that mean that he faces being put on trial for premeditated murder?
 
Everybody makes mistakes, ok not quite as severe as Oscar's alleged mistake but still.

Oscar may have made a mistake, if he did should that mean that he faces being put on trial for premeditated murder?

If there was an actual intruder in the house, then yeah, fine. Sorry, but his story is borderline absurd. For it to be true, him and his girlfriend would have to be the biggest morons of all time.

Maybe she didn't want the supposed intruder to know where she was.

Yeah, when your boyfriend is threatening to shoot you in a 1m x 1m room - that is the time to be quiet!
 
But she didn't yell back that she was in the toilet.. right.

We've got female cleaning staff in my office and when they come in to clean the toilets they open the door a crack and shout "Is anyone in here?".

I hate having to shout back while I'm sat on the bog, but if there were guns anywhere in the vicinity I'd probably make my presence known.
 
Yeah, when your boyfriend is threatening to shoot you in a 1m x 1m room - that is the time to be quiet!

What if he yelled something like, "Get out of my house! I have a gun! I'm going to shoot!"

If that were the case, maybe she assumed he was yelling at someone in another part of the house? Unless he yells, "who is in the toilet!" She probably was being quiet on purpose.

Having said that, they had domestic issues, and at best, Oscar shot his gun randomly and without provocation.
 
We've got female cleaning staff in my office and when they come in to clean the toilets they open the door a crack and shout "Is anyone in here?".

I hate having to shout back while I'm sat on the bog, but if there were guns anywhere in the vicinity I'd probably make my presence known.

At least your cleaners ask, mine didn't.
 
I don't think your conclusion of an "honest mistake" paints a very good picture of Pistorious (he apparently accidental shot a gun in a restaurant before, an incident one of his friends apparently took the fall for) - he still acted highly irresponsibly.

But the prosecution appears to be pretty incompetent so far, the witness seemed extremely unprepared and misinformed. Oscar's story seems rather absurd, but without a competent prosecution the judge may have no other choice but to reduce the maximum possible sentence.



Why would any prosecutor say anything like this in public? Unbelievably stupid!
It sounds like you are convinced already. I've seen enough of lawyers to know they are human with a large ego. Maybe all this info that paints Oscar in a bad light is due to ego and bravado on the prosecution side and not related to the 100% truth? How do you know the witness is misinformed? Confused or misinformed?

And I called it. The steroid thing could be labeled as incompetence or just the police trying to paint him in a bad light. Just like sprinkling crack on black people.
 
Wow, so there might be a pretty good chance that he completely gets off.
Off or not guilty?

I'm terrible at math since I'm American but the witness is close to half a mile away? You can hear somebody fighting and gun shots inside their building that far away? Is that why the people laughed?
 
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