Oscar Pistorius shoots girlfriend - dead
- Thread starter CrunchinJelly
- Start date
- Status
I think this is the best option if he wants to do minimal jail time.
Guy is a fucking monster.
Psychotext
Member
How mental do you have to be to get out of bed, go to the balcony, hear a noise in the bathroom and not firstly assume that it's your missus taking a leak? Hell, even if you weren't sure you'd take a quick look at the bed if nothing else.
OMG NOISES GET THE GUN FUCKYOU INTRUDER SCUM BLAM BLAM BLAM
Certifiable.
(BLAM)
OMG NOISES GET THE GUN FUCKYOU INTRUDER SCUM BLAM BLAM BLAM
Certifiable.
(BLAM)
Psychotext
Member
Not just that... but how the fuck do you go from the balcony to where you keep the gun under your bed without noticing that the other person isn't actually in the bed?
Complete and utter horseshit.
Complete and utter horseshit.
Get out of here with that crap. It's not even on the same planet as victim blaming. Know why?
Because:
skinnyrattler offered possible motives, not justifications. Motives offer reasons to explain why somebody took the actions they did, but do not, themselves, take a stand as to whether those actions were justified.
"Pistorius shot his girl friend because she was going to expose him as an abuser of steroids" is not the same as "she deserved to get shot because she was going to ruin his life" or, in cases of rape, "she deserved to be raped, dressing like that."
The way it was formulated suggested he was set up for this act by her. Skinnyrattler also wrote a second post where he clearly stated that his intention was to examine motives.
Unfortunately, all indications point to pretty much any top-athlete doping heavily.
His attempt to justify his behaviour (whether it is truly what happened or not) is extremely weak and still paints him as a lose cannon
AdventureRacing
Member
Why worry about the actual season? Most sports don't even bother testing for some of the main drugs and there are ones out there now that are undetectable.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Yeah, this is another big hole in his story, since he stated he kept his handgun in the bed. Hmm, i don't know how I can plausibly explain away that one, although he stated that he kept the lights off.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Emi from Katawa Shoujo told him to.
Jackben
bitch I'm taking calls.
How did he not mean to kill his girlfriend? This new york times article is saying he stated he did not know she was on the other side of the bathroom door so it's not premeditated murder. That makes no sense. Also no one in bed with their partner just gets up at the sound of a noise and 'doesnt realize' if they are still in bed or not. The first thing you do is reach for your partner or say something like 'did you hear that' in the case that you think you hear an intruder. I get the strong sense that he is bullshitting pretty hard here.
Exactly. Victim blaming implies some sort of fault on the part of Pistorius' girlfriend. No where does skinnyrattler even come close to saying "if only she hadn't been about to go to the press over his steroid abuse, she'd still be alive." He simply suggested some hypothetical motives behind Pistorius' alleged actions. Calling that victim blaming is ridiculous.
Psychotext
Member
Jesus fuck, so it was an en-suite too?
I dont live in a culture of guns (UK) and i have no reason to have one, I dont have a solid view on whether this is a good thing or not. What i do believe is the presence of guns adds a level of risk and complication to scenarios where people are not thinking straight. What im trying to wrap my head around in this case, and similar cases, is peoples instinct to shoot when there are alternatives available. This appears to be a situation where, if the defendant is right he had the burglar trapped, now my instinct in this situation is to grab a mobile and get the fuck out of the house. My immediate thought is "There is someone in here, they will do whatever is possible to not get caught, all i stand to lose is stuff, not worth it" so i would get the fuck out of there asap. Now adding a gun to the situation you have this thing that gives you an element of power, and in instinct you can use it and really really bad things can happen.
Im trying to wrap my head around the need to shoot into the bathroom when he could have just left, called the police. I honestly think the presence of this tool with so much power creates an artificial situation where no good can come. That is of course, if what he says happened actually happened.
Im trying to wrap my head around the need to shoot into the bathroom when he could have just left, called the police. I honestly think the presence of this tool with so much power creates an artificial situation where no good can come. That is of course, if what he says happened actually happened.
RedNalgene
Member
Has any official statement come out surrounding his story of how his GF didn't yell to him from the bathroom before he fired? He fired right after yelling at the "intruder" so the GF didn't have a chance to respond? She didn't respond and kept quiet?
I mean come on, if you thought there was a bad person locked in the bathroom, wouldn't you say "hey jerk-off, come out or I'll shoot you" before you unload on a locked bathroom door in your own house? Seriously?
I mean come on, if you thought there was a bad person locked in the bathroom, wouldn't you say "hey jerk-off, come out or I'll shoot you" before you unload on a locked bathroom door in your own house? Seriously?
I see, so no absolute evidence. That said, his story is just too goddamn weird, and even if it's true, it would still mean that he's sort of a maniac.
CharlieDigital
Banned
I usually go after intruders when they're hiding frightened in the john myself.
I love how they drew Pistorius' outline with legs....
This happens to me from time to time in the sense that I have woken up, went to the bathroom, and not even realized that my wife is no longer in bed.
Also, for those saying that he's crazy for firing first I would ask if you know how safe it is where he lives in South Africa. If indeed, the violent crime and robbery rate is high, I can kind of understand his reaction not to mention feeling extra vulnerable not having his blades on at night.
CharlieDigital
Banned
BTW, cursory search on crime rates in Pretoria, South Africa:
US Department of State: https://www.osac.gov/pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=12014
BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8668615.stm
Random news site: http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/pretoria-one-of-sa-s-most-dangerous-1.406483#.USOsTGdWRFc
I'm not a fan or a sympathizer with Pistorius, but the premature accusations are a bit...premature. Some of the assumptions made by the media and members of this forum simply don't align with all of non-disputable facts such as the fact that Pretoria, South Africa does have a very high crime rate, a very high violent crime rate, and a very high home burglary rate.
US Department of State: https://www.osac.gov/pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=12014
On a rating scale of low, medium, high, and critical, Pretoria, Johannesburg, Durban, and Cape Town are rated “critical” for crime. Crime continues to be a key strategic concern for the South African government, as well as for U.S. government employees and visitors. In general, crimes continue to range throughout the full spectrum, from petty muggings and ATM scams to armed residential home invasions. These crimes occur with great frequency and throughout every neighborhood.
BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8668615.stm
South Africa is a place where a lot of violent crime happens.
That much is hard to dispute.
Each day an average of nearly 50 people are murdered.
In addition to these 18,000 murders each year, there are another 18,000 attempted murders.
Murder is a staple of the news. In April, it was white supremacist Eugene Terreblanche. Earlier this month, it was Lolly Jackson, the flamboyant owner of the Teazers strip club chain, killed at a house in Kempton Park, just outside Johannesburg.
That much is hard to dispute.
Each day an average of nearly 50 people are murdered.
In addition to these 18,000 murders each year, there are another 18,000 attempted murders.
Murder is a staple of the news. In April, it was white supremacist Eugene Terreblanche. Earlier this month, it was Lolly Jackson, the flamboyant owner of the Teazers strip club chain, killed at a house in Kempton Park, just outside Johannesburg.
Random news site: http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/pretoria-one-of-sa-s-most-dangerous-1.406483#.USOsTGdWRFc
Pretoria ranks among the most dangerous places in the country when it comes to house robberies, with three of the capital's suburbs falling within the top 20 most dangerous and violent areas to live in.
The capital also has the dubious honour of having four of its areas fall within the 10 most dangerous places when it comes to attempted murder, rape, street robberies and assault with the intent to cause grievous bodily harm (assault GBH)
The capital also has the dubious honour of having four of its areas fall within the 10 most dangerous places when it comes to attempted murder, rape, street robberies and assault with the intent to cause grievous bodily harm (assault GBH)
I'm not a fan or a sympathizer with Pistorius, but the premature accusations are a bit...premature. Some of the assumptions made by the media and members of this forum simply don't align with all of non-disputable facts such as the fact that Pretoria, South Africa does have a very high crime rate, a very high violent crime rate, and a very high home burglary rate.
It's nice that you copied some articles, but he still is a very rich person living in a gated community. And even if he still felt threatened (SA may be that dangerous, after all - I don't know), what happened doesn't seem reasonable: Even his account makes him sound unreasonable, and there are plenty of indications that what he claims happened isn't what actually happened.
Are you also sometimes out on the balcony at night, hear something (which could be your wife), get the gun that is located at the bed your wife should be sleeping at, not notice she isn't there, and then proceed to shoot through the bathroom door?
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
This is going to be such an interesting case. Lets hope that Justice is provided where needed.
What is premature about the accusations? Which assumptions made by "the media and members of this forum" don't align with "non-disputable facts"? Please be specific
Except for the fact that he lived in one of the safest gated communities in South Africa which also has it's own armed guards? He's made a lot of money off endorsements, if he really didn't feel safe there he wouldn't live there.
CharlieDigital
Banned
I live in a super safe area and don't even own a gun, so I do not live in a reality where I need to own a gun or have any realistic fear for my safety. But that doesn't mean I cannot understand a different reality where an individual with a high net worth lives in an area known to be high in crime.
That said, I can totally understand because, as I've said, I've gotten out of bed and walked around it to get to the bathroom without even realizing my wife was not in bed.
I've woken up to a crying baby, called out to my wife, and not even realized she was not in the house (it was a Monday and I thought it was Sunday).
With regards to this specific situation, it's not implausible to think that he could mistake crumpled up blankets for the outline of someone in bed not to mention that he probably had his eye on the bathroom the whole time in case he had to react.
Doesn't mean much. Even in the US, NBA athletes, for example, have been robbed in their homes at gunpoint in cities that are arguably safer than Pretoria, SA.
Citations:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2931152
http://newsone.com/612715/nba-stars-wife-robbed-at-gunpoint-in-home-invasion/
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2952813
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_22419373/robbers-force-way-into-aurora-home-nfl-player
http://www.chacha.com/question/what-nfl-player-was-killed-in-a-house-robbery
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/sh...te-Steve-Smith-was-robbed-at-g?urn=nfl,126365
http://www.kare11.com/video/2111686339001/1/NFL-players-family-held-at-gunpoint
Gated community doesn't mean much.
The Friendly Monster
Member
He's one of the violent criminals.
If he was afraid of crime to the point of shooting multiple times through a closed bathroom door in his home without knowing who is on the other side he probably shouldn't walk free (and apparently he didn't even think of activating the alarm system or calling the police?).
But this scenario seems unlikely to me, I can't image his depiction to be the real turn of events.
... and then you shot at a door.
The Friendly Monster
Member
....probably? probably? The man is clearly a danger to society, he needs to be locked up for a long time.
So what do you think the known facts imply? Do you understand that even according to his own version of the events he shouted at the intruder and then immediately shot four times, with intent to kill, through a locked door? He did not wait for the intruder to answer or react, because it's clear that Reeva would have responded in some manner. Do you also understand why he thought the intruder was hiding in his bathroom?
Besides, even if he thought an intruder was in his bathroom, he is very likely guilty of murder.
CharlieDigital
Banned
Facts are not all known yet and we cannot know them all until the trial.
Is he a murderer? Yes. Did he commit what we would legally define as homicide?
That will differ by jurisdiction and by legal precedent.
Even in the US, the definition of homicide changes based on circumstances. Stand Your Ground, Castle Doctrine being good examples and in both cases, applicability is proven through a trial based on the known facts presented at trial.
It's premature to make damning judgements without all of the known facts.
Is he a murderer? Yes. Did he commit what we would legally define as homicide?
That will differ by jurisdiction and by legal precedent.
Even in the US, the definition of homicide changes based on circumstances. Stand Your Ground, Castle Doctrine being good examples and in both cases, applicability is proven through a trial based on the known facts presented at trial.
It's premature to make damning judgements without all of the known facts.
When his own rendition of what happened makes him look very bad, you can pretty much count on the actual facts on the matter not much improving his situation.
pants
Member
Hell people even make it the holiday destination to murder one's s/o
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19176517
CharlieDigital
Banned
Don't look bad to me at all.
As I've said, my opinion is that none of it is implausible.
It would not be the first time that someone has shot a loved one in their own house by mistake.
Citations:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...20928_1_connecticut-man-ski-mask-shiny-object
Connecticut man shoots burglar dead, turns out to be own son
(Reuters) - A Connecticut man responding to his sister's call for help during an apparent burglary at her home next door, shot and killed a masked intruder who turned out to be his own teenage son, state police said on Friday.
Tyler Giuliano, 15, was wearing a ski mask and appeared to be armed when he was shot on Thursday by his father, who authorities declined to identify, said Lieutenant J. Paul Vance, a spokesman for the Connecticut State Police.
The father's sister, who lives next door, was home alone before 1 a.m. when she called him to report someone trying to break into her home. The father went over to investigate and was approached by a masked person dressed entirely in black and holding a shiny object, police said in a statement.
(Reuters) - A Connecticut man responding to his sister's call for help during an apparent burglary at her home next door, shot and killed a masked intruder who turned out to be his own teenage son, state police said on Friday.
Tyler Giuliano, 15, was wearing a ski mask and appeared to be armed when he was shot on Thursday by his father, who authorities declined to identify, said Lieutenant J. Paul Vance, a spokesman for the Connecticut State Police.
The father's sister, who lives next door, was home alone before 1 a.m. when she called him to report someone trying to break into her home. The father went over to investigate and was approached by a masked person dressed entirely in black and holding a shiny object, police said in a statement.
http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blog...hoots-her-180030103--abc-news-topstories.html
Life at home for one Florida man got a lot more complicated when he accidentally shot his girlfriend in both legs thinking she was a hog.
Flagler County Sheriff's deputies say 52-year-old Steven Egan was hog hunting Saturday night with girlfriend Lisa Simmons at a hunting camp off a rural county road in Flagler, in the northern part of the state.
Flagler County Sheriff's deputies say 52-year-old Steven Egan was hog hunting Saturday night with girlfriend Lisa Simmons at a hunting camp off a rural county road in Flagler, in the northern part of the state.
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_22168489/rochester-man-shoots-granddaughter-mistaken-intruder
Rochester police say a grandfather shot and critically wounded his teenage granddaughter after mistaking her for an intruder.
Authorities say the man and his wife were asleep and awoke to a noise outside about 11 p.m. Monday, Dec. 10. The man grabbed his handgun and told his wife to call police as he went to investigate.
The grandfather saw a figure at the back door and fired at least two shots, Capt. Brian Winters said. He hit his 16-year-old granddaughter, who he thought was inside the house, once in the upper torso.
Authorities say the man and his wife were asleep and awoke to a noise outside about 11 p.m. Monday, Dec. 10. The man grabbed his handgun and told his wife to call police as he went to investigate.
The grandfather saw a figure at the back door and fired at least two shots, Capt. Brian Winters said. He hit his 16-year-old granddaughter, who he thought was inside the house, once in the upper torso.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...kills-husband-mistaking-him-for-intruder?lite
Cops: Woman kills husband, mistaking him for intruder
NEW ORLEANS -- A 57-year-old New Orleans man was accidentally shot and fatally injured by his wife who mistook him for an intruder, police said Monday.
The shooting occurred about 11 a.m. Monday (noon ET) in the 5800 block of North Claiborne Ave. in the Lower 9th Ward.
NEW ORLEANS -- A 57-year-old New Orleans man was accidentally shot and fatally injured by his wife who mistook him for an intruder, police said Monday.
The shooting occurred about 11 a.m. Monday (noon ET) in the 5800 block of North Claiborne Ave. in the Lower 9th Ward.
http://www.news10.net/news/article/...ots-kills-girlfriend-he-mistook-for-intruder-
Police: Natomas man shoots, kills girlfriend he mistook for intruder
NATOMAS, CA - A woman mistaken for an intruder who was shot and killed by her boyfriend inside a Natomas home Monday was identified by the Sacramento County coroner as 34-year-old Desire Ann Miller.
According to Sacramento Police Department Officer Michelle Gigante, Miller went into the dark bedroom around 5:30 Monday morning where her boyfriend was sleeping. He awoke to see the silhouette of a person in his room, mistook the person for an intruder, grabbed a gun and shot Miller.
NATOMAS, CA - A woman mistaken for an intruder who was shot and killed by her boyfriend inside a Natomas home Monday was identified by the Sacramento County coroner as 34-year-old Desire Ann Miller.
According to Sacramento Police Department Officer Michelle Gigante, Miller went into the dark bedroom around 5:30 Monday morning where her boyfriend was sleeping. He awoke to see the silhouette of a person in his room, mistook the person for an intruder, grabbed a gun and shot Miller.
http://www.kcra.com/news/Cops-Woman...as/-/11797728/16989440/-/14wwqjs/-/index.html
SACRAMENTO, Calif. (KCRA) —A man shot his girlfriend to death Monday morning after mistaking her for an intruder, officials told KCRA 3.
She was identified Tuesday as Desire Ann Miller, according to the Sacramento County Coroner's website.
The 34-year-old victim died at a nearby hospital just more than two hours after the shooting. Previously, her condition was listed as critical.
The incident took place about 5 a.m., inside the man's home on Battlecreek Circle, in Sacramento's Natomas area.
She was identified Tuesday as Desire Ann Miller, according to the Sacramento County Coroner's website.
The 34-year-old victim died at a nearby hospital just more than two hours after the shooting. Previously, her condition was listed as critical.
The incident took place about 5 a.m., inside the man's home on Battlecreek Circle, in Sacramento's Natomas area.
http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/20315749/rochester-granddaughter-shot-mistaken-for-intruder
Rochester pastor shoots granddaughter, mistaken for intruder
ROCHESTER, Minn. -
Rochester police say a grandfather shot and critically wounded his teenage granddaughter after mistaking her for an intruder.
Neighbors identified the shooter as Pastor Stan Wilkinson, who is an associate pastor at the Rochester Seventh Day Adventist Church according to the church's website.
Authorities say he and his wife were asleep when they awoke to a noise outside about 11 p.m. Monday. The man grabbed his handgun and told his wife to call police as he went to investigate.
ROCHESTER, Minn. -
Rochester police say a grandfather shot and critically wounded his teenage granddaughter after mistaking her for an intruder.
Neighbors identified the shooter as Pastor Stan Wilkinson, who is an associate pastor at the Rochester Seventh Day Adventist Church according to the church's website.
Authorities say he and his wife were asleep when they awoke to a noise outside about 11 p.m. Monday. The man grabbed his handgun and told his wife to call police as he went to investigate.
etc.
You hear these stories pop up quite frequently and Pistorius' case is only special because he's a well known celebrity figure.
You can't be serious. He heard a noise in the bathroom, automatically assumed it was a robber (even though he knew that his girlfriend was staying at his place and, therefore, that it could be her) and proceeded to shoot through the door multiple times?
We are dealing with facts that the defense admits. When I say he is guilty of murder, I mean he is guilty of the legal definition of murder. He shot with the intent to kill when he was not in immediate danger (reasonable person test). Even if South Africa had their own version of Stand Your Ground or Castle Doctrine, that would still be the case.
Gated community doesn't mean much in the US because security at them is very lax even for expensive homes. When I was young my friends and I actually snuck into some to get a look at celebrities' homes.
The ones in SA are called "security estates" and are specifically geared to keep people out. They're usually completely walled off and have a high presence of patrolling guards 24/7 so I would consider them safer than any of the instances you linked.
AdventureRacing
Member
I'm sure shooting through the door 4 times will come under self defense. Also i'd probably want to be a bit more careful then that when i could potentially end up killing a family member.
Tim the Wiz
Banned
It's a lost cause, guys. There was a defence force for Armstrong, not surprised to see one for Oscar. Like someone said earlier in this thread, people need to stop deifying athletes.
Let me get this right, he knew his gf was sleeping next to him but when he hears noises his first reaction is to put four bullets into her after chasing her to the bathroom instead of asking "hey, is that you?" like any sane person would?
I am pretty sure the crime rate is insane there but this is a fucking overreaction of epic proportions even if they were living in a WW1 trench.
I am pretty sure the crime rate is insane there but this is a fucking overreaction of epic proportions even if they were living in a WW1 trench.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
This. One of the most important aspects of gun ownership and shooting said gun is always knowing where you are shooting at, and who you are shooting at. He did neither of these in this situation. And now a woman is dead.
Idiots with guns killing innocent people...
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
I don't think anyone is disputing that he did a stupid thing and most admit he committed murder. I think the only broad area of debate is whether he is lying and he intended to kill his girlfriend or whether he is just an idiot who made a fatally bad decision. I'm torn on that myself, and his story that he didn't intend to kill his girlfriend is plausible to me as well based on what we know so far.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Fuck me, never buying a gun.
AdventureRacing
Member
Shooting someone in the dark because you can't tell who they are is completely different to blindly shooting through the bathroom door 4 times without even attempting to check who is in there. Actually try reading some of your examples and you would see that they are completely different.
You are the one making a special case for him and trying to find whatever excuse you can.
I'd say it's barely plausible. Even if that turned out to be true he was acting so recklessly that he still deserves to have the book thrown at him.
Deaf Spacker
Memb
For the record, I'm not defending Oscar. I know that he shot and killed his girlfriend.
That said I do believe that his statement is plausible, however that doesn't mean that I think he's being truthful.
That said I do believe that his statement is plausible, however that doesn't mean that I think he's being truthful.
Yeah I think there's an important distinction between plausible and probable. Almost all these cases turn out to be the simplest answer. In this case it would be Pistorious killing his girlfriend in a rage.
The one thing he has going for him is that he's shown himself to be a paranoid gun nut in the past. Still doesn't mean its not technically homicide even if you believe him.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think gated communities in Africa are a bit of a different caliber than the ones in America.
After reading his statement (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162...s-account-of-fatal-shooting-in-his-own-words/) he admits that they agreed to stay in for the night. So he definitely knew she was in the house. No "surprise" visit which had pretty much already been known.
What's interesting is he says:
Doesn't that imply they had been sleeping with the balcony doors open? If he's so terrified by intruders why would you do that?
What's interesting is he says:
Doesn't that imply they had been sleeping with the balcony doors open? If he's so terrified by intruders why would you do that?
- Status