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Out of control pit bulls attack man.
- Thread starter johnny_park
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Pit Bulls aren't fucking Lions. Lots of dog breeds are strong.
I'm not even saying people can't own them. The issue is there needs to be more regulation where dog ownership is concerned, at least for dogs that have a certain athletic ability.
Assholes love pit bulls. Assholes love to feed them a diet of raw meat. Assholes love to roid them up so that they are bigger, stronger, and more aggressive.Assholes love to crossbred them with american bulldogs or mastiffs to get something bigger.
These dogs don't need to be killed off, but they need to be harder to get and neutered when people do get them.
Admiral Woofington
Member
you question the humanity of people calling out those making a generalization and calling for the banning, and some have even called to euthanize/put down, a breed in general? I question your logic if you can't see why some would stand up against those stating that we should get rid of a whole group of living beings based off the act of those with irresponsible owners.
The video in the OP is horrible and the dogs likely will have to be put down, but the breed in general can be sweet. If I showed you a video of another aggressive dog from a different breed will you demand that every dog of that breed be put down?
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
What's wrong with lions? Look, I got my lion from a reliable breeder whose family has been handling these things for a very long time. There hasn't been any violence in her line for 3 generations and I have raised her from a cub. She's a total sweetheart and very loyal and would never attack anyone unless I told her to do so. The only thing even close to an issue I've seen is one time when she was still pretty young and made a little swipe at some kid, but they were being really obnoxious and getting in her face and stuff, and she didn't even use her claws. She's really intelligent and knows better, and now she's mature and more loyal as well.
That's a logical fallacy. And besides that, you should look up the numbers pertaining to pit bul incidents.
Yeah how dare people use logic against dumb generalizations made by people who are afraid of dogs?
I don't own a pitbull, but there are many people here who do.
They put a lot of work into training their dogs making sure they are well behaved, they have a strong bond with their pets.
Suddently an accident happens due to a owner being an incompetend idiot and suddenly people start screaming like scared babies about banning the entire breed.
The hell do you think good pitbull owners would do? Just stay silent?
lol so instead of actually coming up with a counter-argument you'll resort to dumb passive-aggressiveness
NeoGaf.gif
So obnoxious this post is and it further separates you from any discussion that needs to be had over this because you seem to not know the difference between wild animals and dogs.
LostCaress
Member
Erm, dogs are wolves.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I don't know what you're talking about. It's all up to the owners. My lion is perfectly safe, so I don't know why anyone would want to do away with pit bulls. It's just a matter of responsibility, nothing to do with the animal.
She's not wild, she's fully domesticated! Did you miss the part where I got her from professional breeders? I didn't just nab her from the woods. Geez.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
It took like 9 people to subdue 2 dogs
Dogs and Wolves belong to the same genus. They are not the same animals. I mean, this is obvious right?
FunkyMunkey
Banned
i hear lions are just as dangerous as poodles too for the simple fact that they both can bite. the severity of the bite and aggressiveness that pertains to it and difficulty in getting them to stop attacking are irrelevant
Keep digging that hole
entremet
Member
No they're not.
LookAtMeGo
Member
Lions are giant wild cats. You couldnt even say the same thing about a Wolf because they are wild, not a domesticated animal. You should stop. You look silly.
Admiral Woofington
Member
and there are realities to the situations behind those numbers so that doesn't really say much.
Silver Arrows
Banned
He's being sarcastic, but he's still a massive fucking idiot.
888
Member
I honestly question the people who make sweeping generalizations thought processes. This forum is littered with generalizations about people in so many topics and it makes it hard to believe how some people act on many topics.
As an owner of one, see previous posts, I am in the middle of the road on the matter. I don't blindly defend them but I don't call for the obliteration either. These two dogs need to be put to sleep and the owner needs to be severely punished. Again as an owner I am all for finding ways to prevent this. As almost all pit attacks are unneutered males I am all for forced neutering and licensing to breed.
The Pro Ban posters in general have said more scathing words and generalizations about all owners that simply isn't true and most of the time incredibly insulting. So question us owners humanity if you must but don't ignore some of the nasty things others say. Most owners of pits that have posted here have been respectful and are open to dialogue.
I am against any animal that shows human aggression. That should not be tolerated and those should be put down no matter the breed. After Indy passes I won't own another Pit. It is not from a bad experience from her but others. She has been the easiest dog I have ever owned but I am tired of dealing with the stigma and having to maintain my patience while others are flat out disrespectful to me and my animal.
Every person I have met that actually work with them on a daily basis loves them, most of the time, seeing videos like this I can understand why people fear them but not all are like this and the since it isn't a breed but more of a dumping ground under a title for any dog that resembles some features it makes it a murky situation.
This thread is amazing.
Dogs are domesticated animals who have been with humanity since the dawns of time and pretty much evolved along-side humans, wolves/lion/any-other-wild-animals are not.
How can you not understand something so basic?
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Personal attacks really are the best way to distinguish yourself.
RedRooster
Member
Dang, when those things get into their "frenzied" state, there's not a scarier domesticated animal I don't think. I don't think even an MMA fighter could choke one of those out when they're going crazy, they just keep coming!
Silver Arrows
Banned
And yet you with your passive-aggressiveness, and shitty attempts at sarcasm is any better? ffs
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Well, yes.
Could be better if people didn't miss/intentionally evade the main component of the point I was making, though.
Your point is, quite frankly, idiotic because there's a huge difference between domesiticated pets like dogs and wild animals like lions.
It's basic zoology.
Silver Arrows
Banned
Because it was fucking stupid. All you simply did was continue to double down when the point was made. But of course, I doubt you wanted to do much debating and only wanted to do drive-by shitposting, right?
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
See, you're sill missing/intentionally evading the obvious point.
LET'S PRETEND that you domesticated all of the wild nature out of a mountain lion, or at least, as much as we have domesticated the wild nature out of pit bulls.
Would you be comfortable with free public ownership of them?
Making a perfectly relevant point to help illuminate what non-owners feel about an issue is not "shitposting" just because you apparently didn't get it.
Admiral Woofington
Member
A dog that is a combination of different breeds is a HELL of a lot different than a wild animal that hasn't been domesticated. It wasn't a point, it was a silly fucking argument
The difference is that we can pretend whatever the hell we want, it still doesn't hold as an argument because all you're doing is pretending so we can't imagine the reality of the situation because everybody can say whatever the hell they want.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
that is quite an overstatement. domesticated yes, evolved alongside humans since the dawn of time, no. humans have managed to get many wolf-traits out of canines during that period but there are many instinctual ones remaining in various breeds
if you think humans have managed to breed out all of the wolf instincts out of even domesticated dogs, you need to learn more about basic zoology
Silver Arrows
Banned
Sure didn't seem like it.
Why don't you go back to circlejerking about Orange Caramel? Seems to be the only thing you do well. I'm out.
I hope you'll read this, because it's a really common mistake that you're making and I spent too much time writing it!
People often make these kinds of comparisons in pitbull threads, and they really just highlight of a confusion about the difference between "trained" (or "tamed", which is the word you're looking for; both domesticated and tamed animals can be trained)) and "domesticated." . Dogs are domesticated animals; domesticated animals are not the same thing as an animal that is "tame" or an animal that is "trained." Trained refers to an individual animal; you might train a leopard or a tiger or an elephant or a bear, but that is not the same thing as having domesticated it. A domesticated animal is an animal where the population has changed in its phenotypical expressions, behaviors, and genotypes. For instance, the floppy ears, more rounded faces, barking, curly tails, splotchy coats of fur, and wagging tails that you see on dogs also appeared in a population of foxes that were domesticated over a period of decades.
Domestication also differs from taming in that even though you might raise a wolf by hand from infancy, never giving it a chance to develop a normal fear of humans, any offspring that animal has will not automatically be tamed. In domestication, those behavioral (and obviously morphological / physiological) changes are passed down from generation to generation. For instance, in the example Razorback PT mentioned of foxes, Belyaev was very careful to interact with the foxes as little as possible; he didn't want people saying that the foxes had been tamed by humans in their lifetime and therefore their offspring had been tamed. So, after they were whelped, the foxes only saw humans when they were fed. But the kits showed the same instinctive affection for humans that puppies do, as soon as their eyes opened. This even happened when they implanted the embryos of experimental foxes into mothers of the control line and when the kits had been raised by the control mothers.
One of the classic differences between dogs and wolves in terms of cognition is that dogs understanding human pointing and use it to guide their attention / gain information, while wolves are completely oblivious to it. This is in spite of the fact that wolves are generally smarter than dogs (e.g. they solve puzzles of opening food more quickly). This even differentiates dogs from the great apes (e.g. chimp, gorillas, orangutans), which is interesting because you would think that since those animals are so bright and actually have hands with which to point that they would understand the gesture. Instead, even chimps that have been raised from infancy with humans have to learn pointing; whereas with puppies, pointing is understood instinctively (and this has been shown experimentally). Wolves, even those trained for it, really don't. And one of the interesting results of the fox domestication experiment was that the experimental foxes - even the kits - were just as good as the puppies, if not slightly better. Another difference between dogs and wolves is that when dogs can't figure out a task, or are given a task that is actually impossible (e.g. reaching food in a locked steel crate), the dog will quickly give up and look to a human for help. A wolf, even one raised with humans, never asks for help, and will continue futilely biting at the cage or trying to force its way in or just give up (but never look at the human, even the one that raised it, as a potential resource).
Pitbulls are domesticated animals, not tamed, and so a comparison to a wild animal that is merely tamed and trained is not accurate. PItbulls are not a species apart from other dogs, and in fact dogs that appear to be pitbulls can often have significant ancestry of other breeds, and occasionally relatively little (e.g. one-quarter or less) pitbull (or more specifically ASFT) ancestry. And it's not just pitbulls; the same thing can be said of, say, black labs or german shepherds. All dog breeds are the same species; breeds might have been bred for behavior difference (e.g. guarding behaviors, herding behaviors, hunting behaviors), but these aren't significant enough to refer to them as different species. Pitbulls share the instinctive affinity for human beings that every other breed of dog, the same affinity for understanding human gestures, the same ability to read human behavior, and so forth that every other dog breed has in common. They are domesticated animals, and while anyone who has seen the video in the OP can point to it as evidence that domesticated animals can still be dangerous in the right circumstances, this doesn't change the fact that that attack wasn't caused by something inherent in pitbulls that can be separated out from other breeds of dog. It will always be the case when there is a dog attack of any kind that we will be able to say, "Yes, but if that dog had been raised in different circumstances, that never would have happened."
I hope that help.
We already have that. They are call cats. House cats.
Dude Abides
Banned
His point was they're both dangerous animals. I don't get why this analogy is so difficult for you to understand.
It doesn't really matter if they're domesticated or not, since even the domesticated ones are dangerous.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
his point is that if you were able to domesticate lions over thousands of years, would that be an acceptable pet to have. your lion is kind and nice and most of them don't have problems, but the few that revert back to their instinctual aggressiveness can fuck your shit up worse than other pets
It's not as easy as you think, domesticated pets come from centuries and centuries of them living alongside humans.
You can't suddenly domesticate an species who isn't used to living with humans, shit's genetical.
LostCaress
Member
Dogs are classified as Canis lupus, canis lupus familiaris if you want.
Yes they are
Maybe you yourself don't get something so simple?
Tell me for example, the Czech wolf dog is what according to you? A dog? A wolf? Do tell.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
he/she doesn't know. to act like dogs are some incredibly large gap away from wolves is hilariously misinformed. whether looking at phenotype/genotype
Silver Arrows
Banned
As a previous owner of a Spitz type dog (Specifically, American Eskimo Spitz) I've seen their aggression first hand. I don't wish it upon anyone.
It's a hybrid which surprise surprise, isn't as regulated or reccomended as any other dog breed.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Because one is already domesticated? And the other is a wild animal?
Would you be fine with the argument if somebody were to say they wouldn't own this dog because they wouldn't own a bear? Of course you wouldn't own a bear. They aren't domesticated. If dogs had the exact same nature of wolves we wouldn't own them.
edit: and your edit doesn't work that way. Every breed of dog can potentially be dangerous if they are raised to be assholes. Many other breeds were made for the act of battle of war. Ban them too?
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
What an exemplar of quality posting you are.
No, it's perfectly relevant but you are ignoring the part that is relevant about it to focus solely on the aspect of wild nature. I am not making an argument for domestication of mountain lions. That should be plainly obvious, so whatever matter there is concerning their nature is clearly not what is in view. So then, if I'm not talking about that, what am I talking about? Raw power to kill. Clearly, my chosen animal was meant to exaggerate this aspect to a level that even pit bull advocates would be uncomfortable with.
So my point still stands, IF WE DID manage to domesticate mountain lions, would you be comfortable with public ownership? Is nature and nurture really the only thing of concern here, or is raw power also a major concern? Enough to put regulations and controls on them?
I really don't understand why I had to spell this out for you. Maybe you really are that oblivious to what people feel when they walk down the sidewalk unarmed and there is some massive, muscular dog furiously barking at them behind a precariously secured screen door.
I know what they are. You just restated what I said. Canis lupus is a GENUS. And no, they are still not the same animal. You are still wrong and are attempting to take something ingerently simple and twist it to mean something else.
Wolves are not dogs. They are related and noting more.
Wolfdogs are mixes of both hence why they need to be named "wolfdogs" because it's a combination of two different animals.
ScatheZombie
Member
Man, dog owners and gun owners should form an alliance. Because you guys make exactly the same arguments.
Guns: "It's not the weapon, it's the person wielding it."
Dogs: "It's not the animal, it's the owner."
Guns: "Those statistics are inaccurate and skewed because 'reasons'."
Dogs: "Those statistics are inaccurate and skewed because 'reasons'."
Bystander (mockingly): "Yeah, high-capacity, semi-automatic rifles are just as safe as my tank."
Guns: "No, tanks aren't the same. You shouldn't be allowed to have tanks."
Bystander: "So, you agree certain weapons shouldn't be owned by people, just not your weapon of choice."
Bystander (mockingly): "Yeah, pitbulls are just as safe as my lion."
Dogs: "No, lions aren't the same. You shouldn't be allowed to have lions."
Bystander: "So, you agree certain animals shouldn't be owned by people, just not your animal of choice."
Guns: "I'm a responsible gun owner. It's everyone else who are terrible owners."
Dogs: "I'm a responsible dog owner. It's everyone else who are terrible owners."
Guns: "It's not the type of weapon. If you ban these weapons, people would just use other weapons."
Dogs: "It's not the breed of dog. If you ban this breed, people would just use this other breed."
Guns: "Everything would be fine if everyone was properly trained."
Dogs: "Everything would be fine if everyone was properly trained."
I wonder what the cross-over between Pitbull owners and NRA members is.
Guns: "It's not the weapon, it's the person wielding it."
Dogs: "It's not the animal, it's the owner."
Guns: "Those statistics are inaccurate and skewed because 'reasons'."
Dogs: "Those statistics are inaccurate and skewed because 'reasons'."
Bystander (mockingly): "Yeah, high-capacity, semi-automatic rifles are just as safe as my tank."
Guns: "No, tanks aren't the same. You shouldn't be allowed to have tanks."
Bystander: "So, you agree certain weapons shouldn't be owned by people, just not your weapon of choice."
Bystander (mockingly): "Yeah, pitbulls are just as safe as my lion."
Dogs: "No, lions aren't the same. You shouldn't be allowed to have lions."
Bystander: "So, you agree certain animals shouldn't be owned by people, just not your animal of choice."
Guns: "I'm a responsible gun owner. It's everyone else who are terrible owners."
Dogs: "I'm a responsible dog owner. It's everyone else who are terrible owners."
Guns: "It's not the type of weapon. If you ban these weapons, people would just use other weapons."
Dogs: "It's not the breed of dog. If you ban this breed, people would just use this other breed."
Guns: "Everything would be fine if everyone was properly trained."
Dogs: "Everything would be fine if everyone was properly trained."
I wonder what the cross-over between Pitbull owners and NRA members is.
Holy shit this is like talking to a wall.
For the one hundreth time, dogs have been together with humans since forever and throughout centuries have learned to adapt to them, so much that dogs are literally the only animal species that willingly stares into a human's eyes to figure out the human's current emotions.
Wolves are nothing like that, because they have never been with humans.
Do you get it now or do I have to spell it?
Admiral Woofington
Member
If raw power is a concern then plenty of domesticated animals have the raw power to murder humans. Horses could easily break your neck or trample you.
Aw, that's a shame =\
My granddad found and raised a Eurasier when I was a kid and it was the sweetest dog I ever knew. Everyone was afraid of it though because it had some spitz and chow in it, even though the breed is known for being great dogs all around.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
it is incredible to me. and i just know there are some who defend pitbull (current laws about) ownership and then advocate for stricter gun laws without actually making the hypocrisy connection in their minds
Good thing we don't see horses randomly walking on the streets nowadays.
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