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http://politics.slashdot.org/politics/05/06/09/0051206.shtml?tid=158&tid=219

Politics: Patriot Act to be Expanded
Privacy
Posted by samzenpus on Thursday June 09, @05:39AM
from the big-brother dept.
m4dm4n writes "It seems that the patriot act is being expanded rather than scaled back after a vote late Tuesday by the Senate Intelligence committee. The FBI has gained new powers to demand documents from companies without a judge's approval, as well as the ability to designate subpoenas as secret and punish disclosure of their existence with up to one year in prison."

http://news.com.com/2061-10789_3-5736302.html?part=rss&tag=5736302&subj=news

June 7, 2005 7:22 PM PDT
Senate panel votes to expand Patriot Act

Forget scaling back the Patriot Act.

Instead, the controversial post-9/11 law would be expanded to give the FBI new powers to demand documents from companies without a judge's approval, according to a vote late Tuesday by the Senate Intelligence committee.

The final text of the Senate Intelligence committee's amendments was not immediately available (here's a draft dated last month), and reporters were barred from the secret session during which the vote was held.

But the proposal appears to grant the FBI more power to seek information from banks, hospitals, libraries, and so on through "administrative subpoenas" without prior judicial oversight. The subpoenas are only supposed to be used for terrorism or clandestine intelligence cases.

One other detail: the FBI may designate that the subpoenas are secret and punish disclosure of their existence with up to one year in prison (and five years if the disclosure is deemed to "obstruct an investigation.")

In testimony in April, FBI director Robert Mueller said: "The administrative subpoena power would be a valuable complement to (existing) tools and provide added efficiency to the FBI's ability to investigate and disrupt terrorism operations and our intelligence gathering efforts."

The ACLU denounced the Senate Intelligence committee's vote. "In a move antithetical to our Constitution, the new 'administrative subpoena' authority would let the FBI write and approve its own search orders for intelligence investigations, without prior judicial approval," the group said in a statement. "Americans have a reasonable expectation that their federal government will not gather records about their health, their wealth and the transactions of their daily life without probable cause of a crime and without a court order."

In theory, the expand-the-Patriot-Act bill now goes to the Senate floor for a vote. But some negotiations are likely to take place between the Intelligence and Judiciary committee, and that could affect the final form of the legislation.

Posted by Declan McCullagh

 

[Deleted member 4784]

What the fuck?? Is this for real?

 

[ManDudeChild]

What the fuck?? Is this for real?

It's times like this I'm glad I live to North of the 49th Paralle.

 

[Ned Flanders]

This sickens me.

 

[mrklaw]

so they can go to a company, such as an ISP, and demand they hand over material on their customers, probably including logs etc - without authorisation from a Judge?

Moreover, the company is not able to tell you that they have handed over info about you to the FBI?


Jesus....

 

[AniHawk]

That's cool. Personal freedoms should die.

 

[Crow]

For the Good of the Democracy!

 

[Companion Cube]

The subpoenas are only supposed to be used for terrorism or clandestine intelligence cases.

Basically... everything they do? :\

 

[ToyMachine228]

It was built into the Patriot act, that it would be brought up in front of Congress if they wanted to add things to it, at the end of 2005.

 

[belgurdo]

...so this is how liberty dies. With thunderous applause...

 

[ToxicAdam]

Isn't this the same guy who wrote a similar article 3 weeks ago? (Government will be allowed to seize ISP records)

Everything that is being reported from mainstream media, suggests that the Patriot Act is going to be lessened, rather than expanded.

 

[Rocket9]

Looks like freedom in America was just a fad

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

Has the Patriot Act actually been held up by the courts? Whenever I see someone convicted with this, the courts declare it unconstitutional.

I've heard lots of reports of it being lessened. I don't go on anything bad but this is seriously pathetic. The government does not need to pinch a loaf on the constitution as they see fit. That goes for the Democrats too.

 

[Dan]

Everything that is being reported from mainstream media, suggests that the Patriot Act is going to be lessened, rather than expanded.

I believe this is true, except that the act as approved by the subcommittee is indeed expanded. The supposed plan is for more restrictions to be added after its opened up to the general Senate. I won't be holding my breath on that happening.

 

[Phoenix]

I can't believe that within a period of 8 years, these assholes will have undone everything that America stood for, valued, and sent people to war to protect. The price of freedom is indeed eternal vigilence... sleep for 4 years and you lose it all.

 

[Guileless]

Is anyone making progress on a mountain redoubt for us to flee to once Bush formally moves to a Star Wars-style Imperial government? As I mentioned before, Raoul Duke plans to take refuge on a farm in the Blue Ridge Mountains. Perhaps we could settle within a few days' hike of that area so we could barter for food with him.

 

[darscot]

Everything that is being reported from mainstream media, suggests that the Patriot Act is going to be lessened, rather than expanded.

You don't say? American media saying one thing but actually the opposite is fact. WMD anyone. It's funny I'm Canadian and up here American media ranks at the the tabloid level. Well not to everyone but for my demographic it sure does.

 

[ToxicAdam]

You don't say? American media saying one thing but actually the opposite is fact. WMD anyone. It's funny I'm Canadian and up here American media ranks at the the tabloid level. Well not to everyone but for my demographic it sure does.

Ya, you're right. The AP is a big tabloid. Fucking christ.

 

[White Man]

Isn't this the same guy who wrote a similar article 3 weeks ago? (Government will be allowed to seize ISP records)

Everything that is being reported from mainstream media, suggests that the Patriot Act is going to be lessened, rather than expanded.

Hate to break it to you, guv'nuh

Not only is it going to be extended, but it looks like the current preference would be to do it secretly.

Bish, keep a spot open for me at your place. Note that I sleep naked and can't tell the difference between right and wrong.

 

[darscot]

You may not believe it but to to your mid 20's to mid 30' average Canadian male. US TV news is entertainment. It's probable ranks around the level of Cops. If US news is on your going to hear a lot of conversations that sound something like.

Turn that shit off.
No wait... their weather girls have huge tits.
Fuck that I'm not sitting through shit, this just flip untill the weather is on.

I'm not saying it is as bad as the tabloids but the style is so different then our news people are just like what the hell is this? We get the same old guy everynight he always talks in a very calm and reserved maner. The weather girl is normally some weird dorky guy. We usually get an attractive girl that does the cheesy whats going on in the city bit. She tends not to be big breasted in your face kind of hot. Just a nice cute attractive girl.

I'll now return this thread to your regular topic, (Fuck that was bad but I could't resist)

 

[Dan]

You may not believe it but to to your mid 20's to mid 30' average Canadian male. US TV news is entertainment. It's probable ranks around the level of Cops. If US news is on your going to hear a lot of conversations that sound something like.

Turn that shit off.
No wait... their weather girls have huge tits.
Fuck that I'm not sitting through shit, this just flip untill the weather is on.

I'm not saying it is as bad as the tabloids but the style is so different then our news people are just like what the hell is this? We get the same old guy everynight he always talks in a very calm and reserved maner. The weather girl is normally some weird dorky guy. We usually get an attractive girl that does the cheesy whats going on in the city bit. She tends not to be big breasted in your face kind of hot. Just a nice cute attractive girl.

I'll now return this thread to your regular topic, (Fuck that was bad but I could't resist)

Again, as ToxicAdam points out, you can't stereotype the entire US media based upon what you've seen of the television segment. Yeah, great, we all know most television news here blows, but that doesn't mean there's not perfectly decent news outlets within the other mediums.

 

[darscot]

I wasn't trying to stereotype all US media. Just that because it's so different then ours most people just right it all off. We get barraged with it and its hard to tell the good from the bad. It's the one bad apple spoiled the bunch kind of thing. Man you guys are touchy about your news. I didn’t mean to offend anyone.

 

[Archaix]

I wasn't trying to stereotype all US media. Just that because it's so different then ours most people just right it all off. We get barraged with it and its hard to tell the good from the bad. It's the one bad apple spoiled the bunch kind of thing. Man you guys are touchy about your news. I didn’t mean to offend anyone.

Don't apologize. News is entertainment here, too. It's rather sickening, but Americans don't want actual news.

 

[AssMan]

Fine by me. Just easier to capture "suspected" terrorists. :lol

 

[ronito]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

Most American media blows because its about capturing ratings, not reporting news. Thats why its possible for men like Dan Rather to piss on their dignity and career in a scramble for 10,000 more viewers.

I can't remember the last time I watched the TV for news.

 

[Incognito]

This country sips one taste of what's been drank around the world for years and all of the sudden we should forgoe everything we've stood for.

If that's the price of freedom, then the terrorist have indeed won. Bin Laden must be laughing his ass off in his bat cave somwhere in Iraq/Iran/Afghan as he watches the USA sprial into massive decifits and place restrictions on common freedoms.

Hell, the man has publicly stated that his main goal in pursuing this "Jihad" is to bankrupt our country. Then you have the bobbleheads from the administration when asked about the deficit, "WELL, YOU KNOW, ITS WARTIME!! GOTTA SPEND SPEND SPEND!!!" Spend over 800 billion but can't ensure that our troops are protected in Iraq?

Fucking assholes.

 

[FortNinety]

I can't believe that within a period of 8 years, these assholes will have undone everything that America stood for, valued, and sent people to war to protect. The price of freedom is indeed eternal vigilence... sleep for 4 years and you lose it all.

How long did it take for Rome to burn down again?

 

[xsarien]

In theory, the expand-the-Patriot-Act bill now goes to the Senate floor for a vote. But some negotiations are likely to take place between the Intelligence and Judiciary committee, and that could affect the final form of the legislation.

Quoted for emphasis. I suggest a letter-writing campaign. Especially for you guys in states with Republicans in the U.S. Senate. Those damned sheep would vote for throwing newborns in a blender if Bush wanted it to be done.

 

[NWO]

 

[heavenly]

How many times do I have to say it for athiests and christians alike to hear me...USA is the lamb-like beast in Rev. 13. Not trying to be an alarmist because there's no need to fear if you believe in Jesus Christ as your Saviour. USA will set up a religio-political system. We will lose our liberties for the sake of terrorism. Once USA crosses a certain path, it will be too late to turn back and the great tribulation will begin. Many believe it can't happen because we have our Constitution to protect us...and to that I say...ha!

 

[heavenly]

Modern-day baby Moses?

 

[ronito]

How many times do I have to say it for athiests and christians alike to hear me...USA is the lamb-like beast in Rev. 13. Not trying to be an alarmist because there's no need to fear if you believe in Jesus Christ as your Saviour. USA will set up a religio-political system. We will lose our liberties for the sake of terrorism. Once USA crosses a certain path, it will be too late to turn back and the great tribulation will begin. Many believe it can't happen because we have our Constitution to protect us...and to that I say...ha!

Warning: In case of rapture this car will be empty!

 

[goodcow]

This country sips one taste of what's been drank around the world for years and all of the sudden we should forgoe everything we've stood for.

If that's the price of freedom, then the terrorist have indeed won. Bin Laden must be laughing his ass off in his bat cave somwhere in Iraq/Iran/Afghan as he watches the USA sprial into massive decifits and place restrictions on common freedoms.

Hell, the man has publicly stated that his main goal in pursuing this "Jihad" is to bankrupt our country. Then you have the bobbleheads from the administration when asked about the deficit, "WELL, YOU KNOW, ITS WARTIME!! GOTTA SPEND SPEND SPEND!!!" Spend over 800 billion but can't ensure that our troops are protected in Iraq?

Fucking assholes.

Couldn't have said it better myself...

 

[heavenly]

Well, bankrupting our country was always part of the Council of Foreign Relations plan...or was that the Federal Reserve Bank, or was it the Jesuits. Who knows?

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

Bin Laden has won. He wanted to take down America and did so:

Economic crisis? Check but we won't feel its effects until lenders want their money back.

Government overspending? Check including $9 billion in unaccountable cash. If the government is that concerned about $10 billion for the Oil for Food scandal, they should find out what happened to that $9 billion.

Unemployment stall? Check. There's a slight chance it might dip to 4.8% or 4.9% but its been hovering in the low 5's for quite some time now.

Loss of respect for the US worldwide? Check and mate.

 

[jett]

How do you like your freedom fries now, americans. :lol

 

[darscot]

How do you like your freedom fries now, americans. :lol

For some reason I just had vision of Matt Damon asking through a window do you like Fries? Then slamming the Patriot act in it's little blue binder against the glass and saying how do you like them fries?
:lol

 

[Blackace]

How do you like your freedom fries now, americans. :lol

If I would guess I would say you are British.....

 

[TheOMan]

Modern-day baby Moses?

Not sure if you are joking - but I think this is making reference to the old saying...I won't ruin the surprise for you since you should be able to figure it out now.

 

[ToyMachine228]

Americans aren't "losing" their freedom. If the government wants to listen to my phone calls, let them. What the hell do I care. They're only going to come after you, if they have solid information that you are a threat to the public. Not yourself, or a few of your friends or anything like that.

 

[xsarien]

Americans aren't "losing" their freedom. If the government wants to listen to my phone calls, let them. What the hell do I care. They're only going to come after you, if they have solid information that you are a threat to the public. Not yourself, or a few of your friends or anything like that.

That's a very selfish, and dangerous line of thought, as it completely dances around the point.

 

[ToyMachine228]

It's dangerous that I don't care if someone listens to my phone calls? If it saves me from the worst case scenario, with someone planning an attack on my town, then do it. I'm not saying they can do ANYTHING to keep us safe and it's all right, but phone calls, and website monitoring doesn't bother me.

 

[BobbyRobby]

Americans aren't "losing" their freedom. If the government wants to listen to my phone calls, let them. What the hell do I care. They're only going to come after you, if they have solid information that you are a threat to the public. Not yourself, or a few of your friends or anything like that.

You don't partake in any illegal activity ever? Do you honestly believe that every law is just, and the sentences for every law are fair? What if it comes to a point where they could come and arrest you if you talk to your friend about smoking marijuana.

And what about property rights? You don't believe someone coming into your house without a warrant violates your property rights?

Even if you agree with the current condition of privacy, giving the government this kind of power sets a dangerous precedent.

 

[ronito]

It's dangerous that I don't care if someone listens to my phone calls? If it saves me from the worst case scenario, with someone planning an attack on my town, then do it. I'm not saying they can do ANYTHING to keep us safe and it's all right, but phone calls, and website monitoring doesn't bother me.

Ok, so where's the line? I'm interested. How much privacy do they have to take for you to be worried?

 

[Drozmight]

"Those are balls."

I turn more militant everyday.

 

[Loki]

<Titor> They will trade liberty for security... </Titor>

 

[Zaptruder]

It's dangerous that I don't care if someone listens to my phone calls? If it saves me from the worst case scenario, with someone planning an attack on my town, then do it. I'm not saying they can do ANYTHING to keep us safe and it's all right, but phone calls, and website monitoring doesn't bother me.

There's a country I think will be just right up your alley...

North Korea I believe it's called.

 

[ToyMachine228]

You don't partake in any illegal activity ever? Do you honestly believe that every law is just, and the sentences for every law are fair? What if it comes to a point where they could come and arrest you if you talk to your friend about smoking marijuana.

And what about property rights? You don't believe someone coming into your house without a warrant violates your property rights?

Even if you agree with the current condition of privacy, giving the government this kind of power sets a dangerous precedent.

That's what I'm saying. As long as they don't go that far, which they haven't yet, it's fine. If they just use the rights that we lend the government through the Patriot Act, to protect us from attacks or whatever that's fine. If they start going too far, like arresting people for talking about marijuana, then yeah that's bull.

But the government doesn't have the time to waste doing that. Under the Patriot Act, they are only supposed to use their rights to protect us from attack, and they have to have good reason to be listening in to begin with. Marijuana, or any small time shit like that doesn't qualify.

 

[Phoenix]

Americans aren't "losing" their freedom. If the government wants to listen to my phone calls, let them. What the hell do I care. They're only going to come after you, if they have solid information that you are a threat to the public. Not yourself, or a few of your friends or anything like that.

404 - Logic not found.


We have a freedom to not be spied upon by our government. If the government removed that freedom, we have lost it.

In addition I'm sure most people in this very thread have downloaded TV shows, music, porn (that was copy protected) etc. All of these things being illegal activities most of the people here would likely be on their way to jail.

Sure, if we lived in a world where NOONE did any crimes then having a police state might be okay, but I doubt seriously if ANYONE, myself included, is innocent of having never committed any crime... even the seemingly 'innocent' ones that don't effect anyone... like playing music too loud, or jay walking, or crossing when the light was red, or not crossing at a sidewalk, or loitering, or speeding, etc. If you look hard enough you can find crimes to convict most (if not all) of us.

I would get into the impact this has on Due Process, but I think that would be a waste of time.