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[AGRacing]

I never believed that a dedicated sound card would or could make a significant difference in 2023... but I was wrong.

My motherboard is an X570 Aorus Pro Wifi. It touts a great implementation of the common Realtek ALC1220. It works fine of course - but I always had the suspicion it should be better. I felt like sounds blended together in a way - no individual sound was distinct enough. Not 'punchy' enough. It's terrible to have to use subjective terms but you probably get my meaning.

Also in the early 2000's I had an Audigy 2 ZS and I always remember music specifically being excellent with that thing - and EAX being a game changer in that era for game audio.

So I did a little review surfing and sale hunting and picked up a Sound Blaster AE-5 Plus .

It is definitely making a difference with speakers in clarity - but with headphones? BONKERS difference. There is a discreet amp for each channel. I am not a total audiophile but I can just describe it as MUCH richer and clearer. Every individual sound in every range is audible. It's pretty ridiculous.
I tried this with multiple pairs of headphones as well... and my big takeaway was ABSOLUTELY consider a dedicated sound card BEFORE potentially wasting 300 dollars on headphones. The big surprise of my headphone testing was trying my son's Turtle Beach Recon 200's. The card totally transformed those things. They are punching WAY above their weight plugged into this PC.

And all of that was just in the 'direct' source audio mode ... but there are also customizable "SBX" sound profiles for individual games and scenarios and seem to aid you in amplifying things like nearby footsteps, etc if needed or wanted.

But the direct mode is so good I believe I'll just stick with that. I have not heard audio like this through headphones ever.

Here's a pic. Anyway - something to consider for the PC enthusiasts that I know are here.

 

[lukilladog]

I could say the same after I ditched this year my Xonar DG in favor of the onboard on my gigabyte h610m and asus b660m motherboards... I think it's just a matter of how audio is sweetened from factory now, and if you like audio to sound in a certain way, the APO equalizer with the Peace plugin should do the job. Placebo is a real problem on these matters.

 

[Dr.D00p]

Its not that discrete sound isn't better, it is, rather that on board audio is now so good that 95% of users can't tell the difference to a degree that can justify spending extra on it, without also hooking it up to a decent sound system.

 

[Fess]

I hijacked the music computer for gaming and use an external Steinberg UR22, and studio monitors or headphones. I’m mostly satisfied but it don’t come close to the living room home theater setup used for the consoles.

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

Man I haven't used a soundcard since like early 2000s, that's when EAX support was all the talk back then.

 

[Zug]

Integrated mobo soundcards indeed suck, and have always sucked.
USB DAC + whatever real audio equipement you have (headphones, Hifi/HC amplifier or amplified speakers...) is generally the way to go.

 

[rofif]

Most hated post of this topic incoming !!!
pc builders - don't do that. It's a waste of money. There is absolutely 0 difference nowadays. I compared before I removed all that shit.
I've used onboard, used fiio e10k usb dac and you know what? Now I don't use anything. Besides - on-board cards don't suck for 15 years already.
Digital audio through hdmi goes directly from gpu to my lg c1 tv and it's speakers are pretty good for a tv in right mode. No setup, nothing needed.
Headphones? Never again audiophille bs, usb dac issues, crackling or cables. Sony pulse 3d usb wireless dongle is the sound card. Sounds fantastic, no hiss whatsoever, no delay, no cables. Turn on and go.

Ignorance is bliss. And I am happy that I've managed to escape pc audio hole. On-board disables in uefi, no usb crap dacs. Nothing. no problems.
Sound cards are something I absolutely do not miss from the 90s

 

[Tarin02543]

I absolutely agree. Personally I use a Asus Xonar Essence 2.0 and couldn't live without it.

When I game on my tv I use RCA cables connected, thanks to the separate inputs (hdmi video + analog audio) it makes a huge difference.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Can't knock the reasoning. I used to buy sound cards 20 years ago. It's more of a space or pcie lane restriction that prevents me from adding one.

 

[Wildebeest]

You can buy something like a HDMI DAC now, which you couldn't when dedicated sound cards were in their prime.

 

[DGrayson]

I use a USB dac but I agree if you care then def offload the audio component from your mobo to a dedicated device

 

[Guwop]

I have always used a dedicated sound card. People say on board sound these days is good enough to not use a dedicated sound card, but I never experienced that. On board sound just flat out sucks compared to a dedicated sound card.

 

[AGRacing]

A few have claimed placebo already.. and I get it .. but that is absolutely NOT the case with the headphones as I said.

I realize I can't put the difference into a chart in the way you can between 2 graphics cards... But I assure you it is there and it's not a small difference either.

 

[nightmare-slain]

Maybe it depends on what Motherboard and speakers you get.

I had a cheap ass board and got a sound card and thought there was a noticeable improvement. Upgraded my motherboard and left the card out and thought it sounded better without it.

Maybe if you're an audiophile then it makes sense to get a soundcard but you'll also need good speakers to pair with it. Motherboards have good enough sound quality for most people unless you buy a cheap crappy board. If you're an audiophile you'll buy any kind of stupid shit and think you're getting better audio.

 

[Mr Moose]

I use a USB audio interface (UMC202HD) and Peace app for headphones/mic and TV audio when I am watching movies and shit.

 

[Tomeru]

I just switch to a sff build with msi z790 edge wifi(thank gawd), so I'm unable to use a didicated sound card any more. I also can't use spatial sound in win11 for some reason (even what I could use dts x in my previous pc). So while I'm looking for other options, and so far I can't get it to work no matter what, I plugged my headphone to my monitor to get spatial audio from my 6900xt. A shame really...

 

[Pagusas]

I mean if you are impressed with that, then you should try investing in a full Atmos 11.4 system. You do not need a sound card for that, just the strait Atmos output from any modern GPU.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I prefer to use usb dacs.

Sound cards are fine but you have limited options.

 

[rofif]

And this validates OP's claims.

People need to do the exact opposite of whatever this dude says. He's full of shit.

I'll get a sound card. Thanks, OP.

dude what is your problem with me?
I have fiio e10k right here in the drawer. You want this shit, get it. It's still better than having to deal with any sound card drivers.
There is no sound difference. Not only sound chips have the same audio quality as any sound card or dac.... but more importantly, there is no use for sound care, be in on-board or usb in many cases. Surely in my case.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I just switch to a sff build with msi z790 edge wifi(thank gawd), so I'm unable to use a didicated sound card any more. I also can't use spatial sound in win11 for some reason (even what I could use dts x in my previous pc). So while I'm looking for other options, and so far I can't get it to work no matter what, I plugged my headphone to my monitor to get spatial audio from my 6900xt. A shame really...

Get a usb dac and a good headphones with proper soundstage.

Just feed it stereo. No need for spatial sound etc or any additional processing.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

dude what is your problem with me?
I have fiio e10k right here in the drawer. You want this shit, get it. It's still better than having to deal with any sound card drivers.
There is no sound difference. Not only sound chips have the same audio quality as any sound card or dac.... but more importantly, there is no use for sound care, be in on-board or usb in many cases. Surely in my case.

Which hps did you tried with fiio?

They need to be good enough to notice a difference.

At least Sennheiser HD 650 class.

 

[rofif]

Which hps did you tried with fiio?

They need to be good enough to notice a difference.

At least Sennheiser HD 650 class.

Yeah I never had this class of headphones to test. I was never this passionate about headphones

brainwavz hm5
takstar pro82
cal!
sony xm3
koss porta pro
Maybe some else, I don't remember. It was few years ago. I think I also had 770 pro32 ohm here for a second too.

The best one was koss porta pro with bass boost disabled on fiio and it's my fav headphone ever. Fantastic comfort and open but warm sound. I love that thing.
Honestly, Sony Pulse 3d sounds nearly identical to me and I am just using this on pc. Fiio is packed, sound card on-board is disabled. I like the simplicity.
I know people shrug when I mention Pulse3d but it's really nice sounding. Weirdly enough, it doesn't sound like a closed headset at all

 

[Chiggs]

I have the AE-9, with the external headphone amp, and I completely agree with the OP. Night and day difference.

 

[Tomeru]

Get a usb dac and a good headphones with proper soundstage.

Just feed it stereo. No need for spatial sound etc or any additional processing.

Recommend a usb dac please! Already using sennheiser game one /588.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

I compared

Oh man, thank god for you, thank you so much for comparing, the rest of us can rest easy now knowing that rofif was on the case!

 

[rofif]

Oh man, thank god for you, thank you so much for comparing, the rest of us can rest easy now knowing that rofif was on the case!

ok I'm out

 

[GHG]

Honestly it's not something I'd waste pcie lanes on and that's coming from someone who does care about audio and has a full atmos setup. Onboard along with Hdmi audio have been viable solutions for years.

Oh man, thank god for you, thank you so much for comparing, the rest of us can rest easy now knowing that rofif was on the case!

He's contributed a hell of a lot more to this thread than you have. Take the personal vendetta crap to PM.

 

[RoboFu]

Sound through hdmi to surround sound. I haven’t had any issues.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I use a USB dac but I agree if you care then def offload the audio component from your mobo to a dedicated device

Same running a Sennheiser GSX 1200 Pro and LOVE it

 

[Fess]

dude what is your problem with me?
I have fiio e10k right here in the drawer. You want this shit, get it. It's still better than having to deal with any sound card drivers.
There is no sound difference. Not only sound chips have the same audio quality as any sound card or dac.... but more importantly, there is no use for sound care, be in on-board or usb in many cases. Surely in my case.

I don’t agree on your conclusion but I have to ask, what do you actually do when you ”deal with any sound card drivers”?
I try to remember if I’ve manually updated any audio related driver since the 90s when I used to have an Ensoniq Soundscape Elite card (which was great). There is usually a program to install, takes maybe 1 minute, and after that I don’t do anything and it just works.

 

[Hohenheim]

I have a external sound card (Motu) for the speakers, and Steelseries Nova Pro DAC for headphones.

Haven't even activated the internal soundcard.

 

[64bitmodels]

is onboard audio that good to the point i can skip out on a DAC entirely? my current mobo's audio is decent (cheap Asus B450m-a ii from 2020), but i know there's better out there. I'd completely upgrade my motherboard and change my components for better audio, I want the soundstage flac goodness!!!

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

is onboard audio that good to the point i can skip out on a DAC entirely? my current mobo's audio is decent (cheap Asus B450 from 2020), but i know there's better out there. I'd completely upgrade my motherboard and change my components for better audio, I want the soundstage flac goodness!!!

Just my 2 cents the onboard sound is good enough unless people just want to spend money for the best of the best.

You want good soundstage invest in high end open back headphones

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

He's contributed a hell of a lot more to this thread than you have

Oh he definitely has, how else would we know that there's absolutely 0 difference based on the empirical data of "I compared"(fucking lol), or that you will "have to deal with sound card drivers", whatever that means; amazing contributions as always.

 

[ANDS]

PC is connected to a giant home theater system, so been living the PC audio cream of a dream for awhile now. I do remember having a decent sound card when I did PC gaming at a "PC setup" and how much better it was than a couple of Insignia speakers.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Yeah I never had this class of headphones to test. I was never this passionate about headphones

brainwavz hm5
takstar pro82
cal!
sony xm3
koss porta pro
Maybe some else, I don't remember. It was few years ago. I think I also had 770 pro32 ohm here for a second too.

The best one was koss porta pro with bass boost disabled on fiio and it's my fav headphone ever. Fantastic comfort and open but warm sound. I love that thing.
Honestly, Sony Pulse 3d sounds nearly identical to me and I am just using this on pc. Fiio is packed, sound card on-board is disabled. I like the simplicity.
I know people shrug when I mention Pulse3d but it's really nice sounding. Weirdly enough, it doesn't sound like a closed headset at all

Pulse 3d is already more expensive than these cans you tried. It should sound at least equally good.

Porta pro is a solid headphone. It won't sound any different from smartphone or pc or dac.

Once you get into reference class cans (imo atleast HD 650 class), you start to get complete soundscape. Like a whole layer of ambience that really gets you immersed.

Recommend a usb dac please! Already using sennheiser game one /588.

Try some entry level usb dongle dacs like Fiio KA1. Should be $50 or so.

 

[64bitmodels]

You want good soundstage invest in high end open back headphones

i get the better soundcards to support the headphones though thats the thing
I'm not trying to become some guy with a tube amp who owns tens of thousands of dollars worth of headphones but i want to have something that's more comfortable than my earbuds and lets me hear 3d soundstage audio both for games and music, as well as FLAC

 

[MikeM]

ok I'm out

I still like you even though you like 30fps. Feel better?

 

[SScorpio]

The money is better spent on better speakers or headphones.

I have the same motherboard as OP. Most modern motherboards now place the audio portion in its own section and are mindful of power routing to reduce interference. A dedicated soundcard could improve this slightly by moving chips further from the board, but at that point go for digital out and an external amp to improve it even more.

The difference with modern soundcards is how their equalizers are tuned. As soon as anyone has nothing but praise for the Audigy 2 ZS, you should know they are used to a specific equalizer pattern. Creative did a great job with that card, but the audio isn't unadulterated. But even onboard audio chips almost always have settings that will let you tune in whatever you're ears find best.

In the olden days when OPL2/3 was still king. Having a real Yamaha chip that was generating the audio, versus a knockoff with half-assed sound was a huge difference. Then came the days of MIDI which was overly expensive until Win95 brought Roload GM to the masses. A real MIDI synth was almost always better, but the software synth Windows bundled was a huge upgrade for anyone else. Then came the days of CD audio, no we're almost always some pre-recorded digital audio. And any differences break down to the audiophiles arguing their $1,000 gold-plated audio cable makes it "sound more real".

TLDR - iPods, MP3s, and the like, have ruined digital sound, and people continue to champion audio that is the best very to them but actually isn't close to a good pair of studio monitors.

 

[lukilladog]

I don’t agree on your conclusion but I have to ask, what do you actually do when you ”deal with any sound card drivers”?
I try to remember if I’ve manually updated any audio related driver since the 90s when I used to have an Ensoniq Soundscape Elite card (which was great). There is usually a program to install, takes maybe 1 minute, and after that I don’t do anything and it just works.

I think latency and stutters in games, noise, and glitchy installers were the most common, so you look for fixes (I remember the creative forums being a dumpster fire). I had to sell my soundblaster to a guy that only listened to music (because of some stutters -which a sound card with a Cmedia chip fixed), there even were programs to test if you were affected. Cards with cmedia chips were good for me, until I got the xonar, I don't remember why but I ended up using the unofficial Uni Xonar drivers.

 

[saintjules]

I hijacked the music computer for gaming and use an external Steinberg UR22, and studio monitors or headphones. I’m mostly satisfied but it don’t come close to the living room home theater setup used for the consoles.

Hi fellow music producer. What genre you producing?

BTW, I recommend the Apollo Twin!

 

[ReBurn]

SoundBlaster was right all along

 

[lukilladog]

The money is better spent on better speakers or headphones.

I have the same motherboard as OP. Most modern motherboards now place the audio portion in its own section and are mindful of power routing to reduce interference. A dedicated soundcard could improve this slightly by moving chips further from the board, but at that point go for digital out and an external amp to improve it even more.

The difference with modern soundcards is how their equalizers are tuned. As soon as anyone has nothing but praise for the Audigy 2 ZS, you should know they are used to a specific equalizer pattern. Creative did a great job with that card, but the audio isn't unadulterated. But even onboard audio chips almost always have settings that will let you tune in whatever you're ears find best.

In the olden days when OPL2/3 was still king. Having a real Yamaha chip that was generating the audio, versus a knockoff with half-assed sound was a huge difference. Then came the days of MIDI which was overly expensive until Win95 brought Roload GM to the masses. A real MIDI synth was almost always better, but the software synth Windows bundled was a huge upgrade for anyone else. Then came the days of CD audio, no we're almost always some pre-recorded digital audio. And any differences break down to the audiophiles arguing their $1,000 gold-plated audio cable makes it "sound more real".

TLDR - iPods, MP3s, and the like, have ruined digital sound, and people continue to champion audio that is the best very to them but actually isn't close to a good pair of studio monitors.

I agree, when I went from Xonar to onboard b660m (own pcb on the motherboard as you say), detail mas much clearer and it was because of the nasty hard coded equalizations on the Xonar, it's much better to have a flat pattern from today's onboard and use the APO/Peace equalizer and decide by yourself. Now I can play on my Senn HD headphones without being overly annoyed and tired in shooter and racing games. I tried to find the smallest reason to go and buy a sound card after hours of testing with the HD's and Yamaha shelf monitors, but I could't.

 

[twilo99]

If you want proper audio quality, this is the way.

 

[twilo99]

I use a USB audio interface (UMC202HD) and Peace app for headphones/mic and TV audio when I am watching movies and shit.

Looks solid for the price.

Do you mean this app ?

Peace Equalizer, interface Equalizer APO

Download Peace Equalizer, interface Equalizer APO for free. System-wide PC Audio Equalizer and Effects app for Windows 7 to 11. Peace equalizer is a Windows PC interface for Equalizer APO http://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo. Besides an system-wide audio equalizer on your Windows PC...

sourceforge.net

 

[dcx4610]

Motherboard onboard audio has come a long way but if out of stubborness and nostalgia, every build I get dedicated audio. Sound is important to me and I do a lot of listening to music so I feel it's worth the cost.

I think there are a lot of people out there that just don't care too much about audio. As long as there is sound, that's all that matters. If you care about richer sound, more options and listen to music (and not streaming), dedicated audio is a must.

 

[Mr Moose]

Looks solid for the price.

Do you mean this app ?

Peace Equalizer, interface Equalizer APO

Download Peace Equalizer, interface Equalizer APO for free. System-wide PC Audio Equalizer and Effects app for Windows 7 to 11. Peace equalizer is a Windows PC interface for Equalizer APO http://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo. Besides an system-wide audio equalizer on your Windows PC...

sourceforge.net

Yeah that and this thing https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/

 

[Buggy Loop]

Yup, totally different quality than motherboards. Had the basic Schiit stack for so long, but..

Bought a Schiit Jotunheim 2 + Bifrost 2 dac/amp, black finish, to drive my Focal clear headphones. It’s not just for gaming, but listening to music on that setup is sublime

Also, buy the Dolby Atmos license on MS store. When a game supports it, it’s worth it.

 

[twilo99]

Yes, I find the dolby atmos algorithm better than the built in windows sonic, its def worth it.

I also tried DTS but didn't care for it either.