S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Believe what you want but it's pretty clear to why Sony did this in NA and Nintendo did it in Japan.
Shu Yoshida: Sony doesn't consider Nintendo competition anywhere except in Japan
- Thread starter LakeOf9
- Start date
yurinka
Member
Sony has this 'Days of Play' sale every single year during Spring.
Sony also has their E3-ish/SGF State of Play stream late May / early June, around a week or so away from their Business Segment Meeting.
Sony did the same thing they do every year in this part of the year. It's Nintendo who decided to release their console in this period, Sony didn't change their plans at all.
As Nishino said, Sony didn't give a fuck about Switch 2's release and don't consider it something concerning because it doesn't have the horsepower needed to properly show new games with high end visuals in big tvs, which is what PS5 does.
Yes, PlayStation is a distant market leader in the consoles market (including Nintendo).
But Nintendo is perfectly happy with the amount of Nintendo consoles and first party games they sell. The many records broken by PS and huge success in many areas doesn't negatively affect Nintendo. Nintendo keeps performing perfectly well in the area where they focus: to sell Switch devices and first party games.
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Exactly
Topher
Identifies as young
Sony is getting spanked in Japan and that's where Yoshida says Sony does consider them to be competition.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
So Sony shouldn't consider Xbox a competitor either, considering the sales gap and lack of a three year launch difference. You would agree, I'm sure.
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Hero of Spielberg
Member
Interesting comment. When MS inevitably bow out of the hardware game, that will give Sony 100% market share of the 'high performance' gaming market.
Could be interesting regulatory ramifications.
Could be interesting regulatory ramifications.
near
Gold Member
mclaren777
Member
It's an accurate statement for me.
I've owned every generation of PlayStation console but if you gave me a free Switch, I wouldn't even open the box.
I've owned every generation of PlayStation console but if you gave me a free Switch, I wouldn't even open the box.
Killer8
Member
Of course they are in competition. Everyone is in competition for people's limited time and money.
I recently watched an interview with Shawn Layden who spelled out that you now even have to consider TikTok as the competition, because that's where the younger generation are really spending their time:
It's easy to compartmentalize the market and say "well PS5 and Switch cater to different crowds so we're not stepping on each others toes", but hours and dollars spent playing Switch, or watching TikTok, or a new Netflix series, or jerking it to hentai, or whatever else degenerate shit this forum gets up to (I won't judge you), is time NOT spent on PlayStation. That is a threat to their business.
I recently watched an interview with Shawn Layden who spelled out that you now even have to consider TikTok as the competition, because that's where the younger generation are really spending their time:
It's easy to compartmentalize the market and say "well PS5 and Switch cater to different crowds so we're not stepping on each others toes", but hours and dollars spent playing Switch, or watching TikTok, or a new Netflix series, or jerking it to hentai, or whatever else degenerate shit this forum gets up to (I won't judge you), is time NOT spent on PlayStation. That is a threat to their business.
Hero of Spielberg
Member
With 100% market share they will come under more regulatory scrutiny for console pricing, access to Sony games, PSN pricing, pricing of digital games, etc.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Sounds like loser talk.
near
Gold Member
'High performance market share' is just arbitrarily defined. You can't define a market in a way that excludes Nintendo who owns a significantly large portion of it, if we're discussing the wider industry. And there will never be regulators involved in some silly sub-market like that unless it's economically meaningful, which it isn't.
Lokaum D+
Member
Let me ask something, does Switch Lite counts as Switch Sales or they are a different sales since the system is full portable ? Isnt a little sus to have a portable counting for the main console ? Isnt this trying to increase sales numbers by any means ?
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The fuck you smoking? You mean Sony should try to gaslight Nintendo fans into thinking Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, and Animal Crossing aren't fun games?
My man....
He's showing his ass constantly and letting us all know why Sony reshuffled him into irrelevancy.
But if only kids play Nintendo games and grown men play Playstayion, why is Playstation nearly irrelevant in Japan whereas Nintendo is a defacto monopoly?
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Top 5 best-selling first-party games for Sony and Nintendo in Japan
PS5 hardware - 7m
1. GT7(mostly sold from free bundle) - 378k
2. Marvel Spider-man(mostly sold from free bundle) - 324k
3. Horizon Forbidden West(mostly sold from free bundle) - 166k
4. Rise of Ronin - 144k
5. Stellar Blade - 137k
Nintendo Switch hardware - 36m
1. Animal Crossing - 11.3m
2. Pokemon Scarlet and Violet - 8.2m
3. MK8D - 8.1m
4. Smash Ultimate - 7.5m
5. Splatoon 3 - 7.1m
PS5 hardware - 7m
1. GT7(mostly sold from free bundle) - 378k
2. Marvel Spider-man(mostly sold from free bundle) - 324k
3. Horizon Forbidden West(mostly sold from free bundle) - 166k
4. Rise of Ronin - 144k
5. Stellar Blade - 137k
Nintendo Switch hardware - 36m
1. Animal Crossing - 11.3m
2. Pokemon Scarlet and Violet - 8.2m
3. MK8D - 8.1m
4. Smash Ultimate - 7.5m
5. Splatoon 3 - 7.1m
Hero of Spielberg
Member
It was the CMA that made the distinction, not me.
near
Gold Member
I highly doubt the CMA even alluded to the idea that Nintendo wasn't a competitive market player because of their hardware proposition. If they made that distinction it would've been related specifically to the evaluation of that investigation.
Hero of Spielberg
Member
I mean, this was their wording ...
"We found that Nintendo's consoles compete less closely with either of Xbox or PlayStation, generally offering consoles with different technical specifications, and with its most popular titles tending to be more family- and child-friendly."
Mibu no ookami
Banned
As usual, I think a lot of people go out of their way to misunderstand pretty benign statements.
Microsoft and Sony exist within the same space. Even if Sony outsells Microsoft, they run 95% the exact same software and with almost the exact same experience.
These are competitors regardless of Sony's marketshare or Microsoft's.
Sony isn't worried about losing EA FC or CoD sales to Switch in Europe or the US, but what they do lose out on is sales of games like Dragon Quest in Japan.
Also Sony is well aware that higher prices will reduce sales, not sure why people think they don't know this. Sony is uninterested in heavily subsidizing the price of the PS5 in Japan. They want market share, but not at any cost. You're looking at diminishing returns in terms of unit sales vs P&L.
I do think Sony will try to be more competitive with the PS Handheld and we'e seeing an increase in what they're doing again in Japan with Astro Bot (first party), Rise of the Ronin and Marvel Tokon Fighting Souls (3rd party) and even what they're doing out of country with Ghost of Tsushima and Ghost of Yotei.
Ultimately, we'll see if Sony makes further investments in Japan.
Microsoft and Sony exist within the same space. Even if Sony outsells Microsoft, they run 95% the exact same software and with almost the exact same experience.
These are competitors regardless of Sony's marketshare or Microsoft's.
Sony isn't worried about losing EA FC or CoD sales to Switch in Europe or the US, but what they do lose out on is sales of games like Dragon Quest in Japan.
Also Sony is well aware that higher prices will reduce sales, not sure why people think they don't know this. Sony is uninterested in heavily subsidizing the price of the PS5 in Japan. They want market share, but not at any cost. You're looking at diminishing returns in terms of unit sales vs P&L.
I do think Sony will try to be more competitive with the PS Handheld and we'e seeing an increase in what they're doing again in Japan with Astro Bot (first party), Rise of the Ronin and Marvel Tokon Fighting Souls (3rd party) and even what they're doing out of country with Ghost of Tsushima and Ghost of Yotei.
Ultimately, we'll see if Sony makes further investments in Japan.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
I can't believe that native speakers can't understand these words.
Nintendo and Sony barely overlap. That's it.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Worldwide spanking.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
How many million consoles is Nintendo selling in China?
Some of you guys have a funny concept of "the world"
StreetsofBeige
Member
Nintendo destroys everyone in Japan. But Shu and Sony have to claim Nintendo is their competition in Japan to save face. If they admit defeat in home turf Japan it looks bad. But actions speak louder than words and Sony some reason gave up Japan to Nintendo long time ago.
Right off the bat, you can tell they didnt bother competing with Nintendo in Japan since they havent bothered making a dedicated handheld since Vita despite Japan always being big in handhelds. And then Sony focused a lot of their big budget and games on western studios and IPs, not Japan focused like past generations. Things majorly changed with the PS4 gen 10 years ago.
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near
Gold Member
Sure, competing less closely, but that doesn't mean they aren't part of the competitive landscape. Just targeting difference audiences. If Xbox disappears, Sony would not have a monopoly, regardless of target audience or hardware offering differential.
Gambit2483
Member
When your worst selling game is better than their best selling game. Wow..
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Doesn't matter as even without China Nintendo is the fastest selling console in history.
Adding China would make this even more significant.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
Because PCs exist.
If PCs were not a thing, Sony would have the monopoly of super popular games that nobody will play on a Nintendo Switch: GTA, Mihoyo games, Sony's first party and a very long etc.
So no, they aren't in direct 1-to-1 competition, as they are with XBOX and secondly, PC.
Nintendo has the handheld market. Sony, the home console. As said above, the overlap is tangential. Nobody is buying a Nintendo Switch to play third party games. It's a nice-to-have but not the primary buying factor.
Mr Moose
Member
Nintendo destroys everyone in Japan. But Shu and Sony have to claim Nintendo is their competition in Japan to save face. If they admit defeat in home turf Japan it looks bad. But actions speak louder than words and Sony some reason gave up Japan to Nintendo long time ago.
PS5 destroys Xbox sales everywhere, but they see them as competition. It's kinda like it isn't all about just the sales.
Jacobson
Member
which regulatory body is going to do that lol
near
Gold Member
Yes PC is a platform. And yes, it's a factor in the broader competitive landscape. But before you get your panties in a twist, we was discussing how competition is actually defined in regulatory/business strategic contexts.
Hero of Spielberg
Member
The CMA who found that outside of MS, Sony doesn't have any direct competition in concoles?
Bernardougf
Member
In Japan because of local tastes switch dominates and since the games kind of overlap Sony can see Nintendo as competition, the rest of the world, specially in the west, the games almost dont overlap because the switch is not a third party power house so they are not competing for the same space.
I think is pretty easy to see how sony wouldn't see the switch competing with playstation for time/space outside japan.
Now... GTA is around the corner, dont know if Japan gives a fuck about gta, if they do Sony would be smart to launch a heavily discounted bundle overthere and sell a lot, gta launch is a rare event to take advantage.
I think is pretty easy to see how sony wouldn't see the switch competing with playstation for time/space outside japan.
Now... GTA is around the corner, dont know if Japan gives a fuck about gta, if they do Sony would be smart to launch a heavily discounted bundle overthere and sell a lot, gta launch is a rare event to take advantage.
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Hero of Spielberg
Member
You've got the ex-head os Playstation confirming it for everyone. Sony doesn't see Nintendo as competition outside of Japan. Pretty compelling evidence for a regulator I would say.
Jacobson
Member
they let MS buy activision blizzard, they ain't doing shit
Topher
Identifies as young
Is it? Hmm, ok
near
Gold Member
The CMA said Nintendo compete 'less closely' not 'not at all'. And considering how large Nintendo's Switch install base is, highest software attach rate and global reach, it's ridiculous to suggest they're irrelevant in market share or competitive terms. Monopoly concerns are about market control and consumer harm, and there is absolutely nothing here to be concerned about.
Topher
Identifies as young
Yeah, but that's not a crime. There would have to be a criminal act for regulators to get involved.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Yes it is.
Hero of Spielberg
Member
No, that's not a crime, it's more if they come under scrutiny for increasing prices of PS+, or digital games for example. A regulator may say they are doing it because console players have no other option and they're abusing their market position, in which case it's difficult for them to then point at Nintendo if they don't consider them competition.
Bernardougf
Member
Didn't you hear, the toyota corolla sells like crazy, its definitely beating that ferrari weak red ass.
Topher
Identifies as young
Very true. In which case, Sony would reverse course and say Nintendo is definitely competition and lawyers and executives would embrace every and any argument to win. That's the game they play and why it doesn't really matter what any of them say, even if, in this instance, I happen to agree with what is being said.
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I like how Sony is simultaneously this giant, unassailable monopoly in the games space that requires regulatory bodies all over the world to take down and allow others to compete...while also being some weak brand getting crushed from either side by Switch and Steam. It's a delicate balancing act PCMR and Nintendo fans have to perform on a daily basis.
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And Sony full-throatedly endorsed that market definition.
I mean this was Sony's doing. They isolated themselves and Xbox into its own market as they whined to government authorities to try to block the Activision buyout. Sony gaslit regulators into thinking PC and Nintendo aren't apart of the same market as PlayStation and Xbox. So if Sony gets targeted by regulators in the future, they get exactly what they deserve. Their actions during the Activision regulatory proceedings was embarrassing.
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Hero_Select
Member
Stupid thing to say considering the vast (if not all) of their franchises sell more in the USA than they do in Japan
Hero of Spielberg
Member
I agree, and to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure any regulator really cares enough. I think the attempt to stop the MS / Activision one was an attempt to be tough on 'Big Tech', but the arguments they used were flawed.Very true. In which case, Sony would reverse course and say Nintendo is definitely competition and lawyers and executives would embrace every and any argument to win. That's the game they play and why it doesn't really matter what any of them say, even if, in this instance, I happen to agree with what is being said.
I reckon if it came down to it, they'd just update their definition of the 'high performance'gaming market to include Nintendo and PC.
It would be amusing to see a complete about-face from all involved though!
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