PC Racing Sims

Big Takeover said:
AC:

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I'm sure I'll get it figured out. It ran overtime on it's futz quota. I had spaceships to fly and whales to swim with ;-)



Provided your receiver has a secondary output (and can output both simultaneously), and it didn't add any noticeable input lag, I don't see why you couldn't do that.

It's certainly possible that you'll prefer the audio processing to be done by your computer, and outputted to headphones (included with Retail Rift), at which point the convenience of switching might be diminished. I used my Asus mobo's positional audio processing last night with the OC and it worked pretty well. It's a little dirty, but it's also super-easy.
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Hmmm. Ok. That makes it a bit tougher for me. I think my receiver only has one output. Don't really feel like messing with that then. 4 inputs but only one output to my tv. Considerably less excited now. Sigh. It sounds amazing with iracing.
 
Branson said:
Hmmm. Ok. That makes it a bit tougher for me. I think my receiver only has one output. Don't really feel like messing with that then. 4 inputs but only one output to my tv. Considerably less excited now. Sigh. It sounds amazing with iracing.
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If your (presumably) nearby computer has multiple outputs then you could use the Rift in the same manner as the rest of us. Split the audio off and send that to the receiver.
 
Is is possible to stall cars in Assetto Corsa? Also is the clutch simulation unfinished in Rfactor 2? (seems a bit too forgiving even with the most realistic settings. though I appreciate that cars can stall). That seems to be my major complains with these games so far.
 
SparkTR said:
Is is possible to stall cars in Assetto Corsa?
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Kind of. Not in a totally realistic, 'I'm spinning and haven't kept the clutch in' stalled out way. But if you're sitting still and let go of the clutch, the engine will 'die'.

But there's no proper start-up, either. You just press the clutch in and the revs suddenly pop up to idle.

Improper clutch usage will result in damage to the transmission at least. I'm not sure I've noticed any noticeable shifting issues once you get that damage but it supposedly does something.

Betta Lines said:
This could be a very bad idea, but you've gotta start somewhere...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui2brfiBY8E

This will be my first iRacing race using a DK2.

I'm #212... I think I've just about made it into this broadcasted event with a very sketchy qualifying lap. Not feeling confident. BRB.
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Just saw you slip through a massive pile up at 130R. Well done! Got about 10 positions for it.
 
That was... enlightening to say the least.

Spun out on the last lap, annoyed about that. But brought the car home in one piece. Managed to last a 50 minute race (plus probably another 45 mins of warmup/quali/faffing) in a VR environment without positional tracking and regular dips below 75fps.

Health report:

- My face is a bit warm but not sweaty.
- Eyes feel totally fine, not dry at all (I wear contacts so that's quite a regular occurrence).
- I have the slightest headache, far less than the first evening I tested iRacing's DK2 support, and that was only for a few minutes. I've definitely adjusted to having no positional.
- No nausea.
- Some tiredness, but then I rarely do 50 minute races and that's pretty natural. It feels like I've had a significant physical and mental workout.

Very interesting experience. Felt like I was relearning everything as I went along - the biggest hurdle to overcome was using the real mirrors. I've relied on the virtual mirror for years - iRacing have disabled it for VR so I was forced to use the real ones, which are tiny and a struggle to deal with at this resolution. However, it clicked fairly quickly and the accuracy of scale gave me a solid awareness of where cars were behind me even though the detail was so limited. I had some nice side-by-side moments with a few drivers, including one which lasted several corners - a huge improvement in awareness there although it didn't actually help me overtake anyone. I think the tentative way I've learnt to go side-by-side on a single monitor is not something that can be overcome in a single race. I need a lot more practice to gain confidence in those situations, but I saw enough to appreciate the potential.

In terms of raw speed I was definitely slower. I was on for a top 10 finish at one stage, but that was only through a lot of luck. For example, that huge crash at 130R (a car flipping over you in VR is quite alarming!) gained me a bunch of places, and I was able to stick with some fast guys and stay out of trouble for large portions of the race. But running in clear air with no reference car in front of me, I'm sure I was slower than if I'd used my normal monitor. I lost all progress near the end by running out of fuel before the final pitstop. Pitstops aren't my strong point at the best of times and it was a case of brain overload in VR. I'd not practised stops, not remapped any of the keys, so I was feeling around for my keyboard on the straights to try to cycle through the fuel/tyre options... nightmare! I spent several laps running behind fast drivers, just to help me settle in, and I could feel that I was gaining in confidence and speed as the race went on. More practice will help bring me closer to my usual pace, but until I can compare some proper lap time figures I'm still not sure how close it will be or whether it will ultimately improve my pace.

Overall, very entertaining and very encouraging. I was so close to passing on the event altogether - I had no confidence after qualifying and thought I might mess up the race for many people. With the 'security' of the virtual mirror no longer above my head, I felt very exposed. The F3 (relative times) display was a comfort - another thing I probably look at too much. But I made it through with only a silly spin on the final lap and generally stayed out of trouble. A huge success!
 
TJP said:
From Reiza's FB - One of the new tracks coming up in GSC Extreme v1.25: Johannesburg Historic!



The sim that keeps on giving its users free content ;)
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Kyalami, I've been waiting for you. Very excited about this one. These guys have really been on point with the tracks they've brought in.

Betta Lines said:
*Snip*
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Great story, and good info! Pit stop too. That's jumping straight into the fire!

Glad you survived. Best guinea pig ever!

I agree with some of what you've expressed. Everything that I thought would be really good is, but there are a few things that I didn't entirely account for as well. Low rez mirrors, and (I think) a little lack of speed are definitely on the list. Mirrors; I actually like AC's technically inferior ones better I think . Might have more rez/less fov. Speed; Yes, the overall rez doesn't help, and yes, it's just so different, but I feel like I'm perhaps a little less aggressive too. Being ultra-precise is now a whole lot more fun, so maybe I'm less apt to chuck it in there. Hard to say. I wouldn't discount VR tickling my self preservation nerves either.

I don't know if Oculus will capture the minds of the mass market, or how well it'll transfer to a wider range of games, but I will eat my hat AND my shoes if there's just no going back for race sims. I think for the longest time the physics heavily out-shined the 2D visual representation of racing cars. Now with VR, it looks real, so acting real has an equal partner. If anything, the lack of g's has become even more glaring. Must. Not. Blow. Money. On. Motion. Rig. :P
 
There are times when rF2's lighting comes together and it looks great, but most of the time it looks strange, like this video. I'm sure their graphics engine is capable of better visuals than this (and that recent clip using some PP filters shows they're not far away from something special).


Tried Suzuka again this evening with the DK2, this time in the Skippy 2K Cup. No success this time, crashed on lap 1 at 130R. And despite this brief run, I've got a much more significant headache, just like the first evening of trying iRacing, and I think I know why. I was driving Assetto Corsa for an extended time earlier in the day, so I was very much back in 'positional tracking freedom' mode again.

This is a disappointing turn of events - I've basically proven to myself that I can't switch between sims in VR without a significant practice session and perhaps many hours of downtime in between. This has always been the case of course - it takes a while to adjust to a sim due to the physics variations and all that jazz - but this goes beyond that usual problem and becomes genuinely uncomfortable. I think if I'm going to have any chance of using DK2 competitively for iRacing this season, I'll have to quit using the other sims until they put positional tracking in. And considering how much fun I'm having in AC... that's a tough decision. I'll give it a few more hours, but I may stick with a monitor for now. Thankfully iRacing's new season is a short one (only 6 weeks), so that should be the longest we'll have to wait for the update.
 
bj00rn_ said:
That rF2 footage reminded me of when I was racing Interlagos in Microprose's Formula One Grand Prix on my Amiga.
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No kidding, I think my washing machine could output better graphics. I haven't been following the game closely, but when the beta appeared some years ago I wouldn't say the graphics surprised or impressed me one bit, but I don't remember them being so poor.
 
Apparently a bug is causing lighting issues in the latest build of rF2 that will be fixed in due course. I thought the left side picture was taken from rF2 as I didn't notice the Reiza logo...how rF2 looks worse is beyond me.

Reiza and ISI aren't working together either; Reiza gave ISI permission to use their Interlagos track from GSC-E. I was hoping for some inter-dev team collaboration but alas it's not to be as yet.
 
Betta Lines said:
Tried Suzuka again this evening with the DK2, this time in the Skippy 2K Cup. No success this time, crashed on lap 1 at 130R. And despite this brief run, I've got a much more significant headache, just like the first evening of trying iRacing, and I think I know why. I was driving Assetto Corsa for an extended time earlier in the day, so I was very much back in 'positional tracking freedom' mode again.

This is a disappointing turn of events - I've basically proven to myself that I can't switch between sims in VR without a significant practice session and perhaps many hours of downtime in between. This has always been the case of course - it takes a while to adjust to a sim due to the physics variations and all that jazz - but this goes beyond that usual problem and becomes genuinely uncomfortable. I think if I'm going to have any chance of using DK2 competitively for iRacing this season, I'll have to quit using the other sims until they put positional tracking in. And considering how much fun I'm having in AC... that's a tough decision. I'll give it a few more hours, but I may stick with a monitor for now. Thankfully iRacing's new season is a short one (only 6 weeks), so that should be the longest we'll have to wait for the update.
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Pretty interesting.

I've been messing with too many things to have given anything, including iRacing, my full attention. AC has indeed been awesome though, and that's probably my #1 played thing right now. My impressions of iRacing were that I didn't miss head tracking at all. I felt it really was a non-factor, but like I said, not a ton of time spent with it (no races). It's certainly interesting to hear from someone who's a little further down the path.
 
Big Takeover said:
Pretty interesting.

I've been messing with too many things to have given anything, including iRacing, my full attention. AC has indeed been awesome though, and that's probably my #1 played thing right now. My impressions of iRacing were that I didn't miss head tracking at all. I felt it really was a non-factor, but like I said, not a ton of time spent with it (no races). It's certainly interesting to hear from someone who's a little further down the path.
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Sounds like you've taken to VR very quickly - have you felt any nausea in any demo so far (including ones where you walk around)? It could be that you're far less susceptible to motion sickness than me. You also may be less fidgety/good at keeping your head still!
 
Betta Lines said:
Sounds like you've taken to VR very quickly - have you felt any nausea in any demo so far (including ones where you walk around)? It could be that you're far less susceptible to motion sickness than me. You also may be less fidgety/good at keeping your head still!
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Yeah, that could certainly be the difference. I can tell you specifically with iRacing that I went right into learning it's limitations, and then tried not to venture back into them.

I've had no issues of nausea at all. None. Even when things aren't going right and the frame rate is jacked, or I'm using a controller, or any of the other things that I've read that are puke inducing. Of course I can recognize when things are unnatural, but I'm already at the point where I'm like "ah, whatever". It's not like I'm ripping it off my face. I did pick up a slight headache after going through literally all the demos and games to find which were broken with 4.3, but that doesn't really surprise me.

I knew this would be the case before hand, but in my time of passing the Rift around, everyone has had their own unique tolerance. The better the implementation, the more natural the experience (seated; i.e. driving/flying), the higher the percentage for success. If something is off, there seems to be a lot of variation as to what it is that will get to people.

I am going to spend more time with iRacing tonight though, so perhaps my perspective will change. iRacing can be an intense experience in 2D, and VR is certainly intense, so I think I'll need to experience them both in their entirety like you have to really understand how I'm coping.

------------

You know what's cool though is some of the physiological responses you get from VR. Stand on the brakes and come to a complete stop, and your stomach will do that weird thing is does in real life. Look out the side window/sideways, doubly so. Your body thinks it's moving. Crazy, I tell ya!
 
What are trying to tell me... that you can... daaaj bulletz strafe? :o

I can make myself feel sick by strafing in any first person walking demo (like Tuscany) in about 20 seconds. You're very lucky if you can do this!
 
Ha! Yeah, I mean it feels weird, but I'm like "ohhh weird!". It's not a zone I'm willing to stay too long in however. If I did it for 20 minutes I'm sure I'd probably yack. I'll leave that kind of sadism for some other clown!

Actually, not vomit inducing, but too much sensory overload is the Cyber Space demo. I got about 10 seconds into that before asking what on earth I was doing to myself! ESC.
 
Big Takeover said:
You know what's cool though is some of the physiological responses you get from VR. Stand on the brakes and come to a complete stop, and your stomach will do that weird thing is does in real life. Look out the side window/sideways, doubly so. Your body thinks it's moving. Crazy, I tell ya!
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I've experienced this very thing too and it's very puzzling. Also happened to me in Lava inc the first time I tried it, it's like I was feeling the G's in my stomach. Amazing how the brain can be tricked and the seemingly physical effect it can deliver.
 
SpeedOfNuts said:
I've experienced this very thing too and it's very puzzling. Also happened to me in Lava inc the first time I tried it, it's like I was feeling the G's in my stomach. Amazing how the brain can be tricked and the seemingly physical effect it can deliver.
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It's the weirdest.

For people who haven't tried driving with a Rift, take that bit of info, and extrapolate it out to the rest of the experience.
 
Yeah CyberSpace is nuts - aside from the lack of Gs I get just the same sensation as a real ride, primarily the lightness in the stomach and a strange rushing pressure in the ears. A couple of people I've shown the demo seemed unaffected, saying 'oh that's a bit weird' while remaining entirely composed, others have lost their shit. It's interesting to see such a broad range of reactions.


My feelings today:

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rift26cuvq.png



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I assume you guys don't consider the DK2 "race ready" yet?

Just funning around in open practice, non-multiplayer simulations, etc.
 
kvk1 said:
I assume you guys don't consider the DK2 "race ready" yet?

Just funning around in open practice, non-multiplayer simulations, etc.
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Check back a few posts - I've described my first and second experience in 'real' race scenarios on iRacing with mixed results.

I had a third go this evening, this time at Spa with the UK&I group and it was very positive. Hopefully I'll be able to post a video soon that covers a bit of this.

But the short answer is yes, it's 'race ready' if you're prepared to take some time (could be a single practice session, could be weeks) to get comfortable, both in terms of having the right settings and being physically/mentally prepared.

The three races I've done so far have been outside of the official series so I wasn't too concerned about finding maximum pace, but they were still races where everyone is expected to drive seriously and I didn't want to mess things up for anyone. Despite the various technical problems at the moment, it is already good enough to race at a reasonable pace and not screw people over. As for finding ultimate pace that is unclear for now, so I'm still undecided whether I want to use it for the official series this season.
 
Betta Lines said:
Check back a few posts - I've described my first and second experience in 'real' race scenarios on iRacing with mixed results.

I had a third go this evening, this time at Spa with the UK&I group and it was very positive. Hopefully I'll be able to post a video soon that covers a bit of this.

But the short answer is yes, it's 'race ready' if you're prepared to take some time (could be a single practice session, could be weeks) to get comfortable, both in terms of having the right settings and being physically/mentally prepared.

The three races I've done so far have been outside of the official series so I wasn't too concerned about finding maximum pace, but they were still races where everyone is expected to drive seriously and I didn't want to mess things up for anyone. Despite the various technical problems at the moment, it is already good enough to race at a reasonable pace and not screw people over. As for finding ultimate pace that is unclear for now, so I'm still undecided whether I want to use it for the official series this season.
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Ah, apologies. I missed that post. Thanks for the thorough review.

I'm one of those guys who has been holding off on building a triple-screen rig to wait for the consumer version of Oculus to hit. So all of this is really exciting to hear.

One question from me: If I remember correctly from the iRacing forums the most frequent complaint with the DK1 was finding and/or hitting your braking points correctly and consistently.

Do you still find yourself having to brake "instinctively" with the DK2 or has the IQ/fidelity gotten better enough that you can start to utilize some visual markers here and there?
 
There is still an element of braking instinctively (which isn't necessarily a bad thing), but you can definitely use the clearer objects for reference in DK2, such as the distance boards or cones. I'd say this improvement has come about just as much from the low persistence and overall improved latency as it has from resolution. DK1 was blurry for res, and blurry as hell for movement. DK2 is still fairly blurry for res, but the motion blur is almost entirely gone, and that makes a big difference when picking a braking point. It is a dramatic improvement in motion clarity.

Not every corner has convenient markers and you may be used to picking out very subtle visual cues for brake reference, like a small crack in the surface or where there is a slightly wider bit of dirt at the edge of the track - some of these tiny things are harder to see compared to a high-res monitor. At times like this when I'm lost for a brake marker, I end up going by instinct, and thanks to the sense of scale, it feels pretty natural to do so.

Many factors need to come together to overcome the resolution limitation. If everything works flawlessly it is only a minor inconvenience. For instance, my main concern at the moment is that I'm struggling to maintain 75fps with a lot of cars around me, which throws off my 'feel' as I approach a braking area. The lack of positional tracking in iRacing feels restrictive and adds to the discomfort. These things are more annoying than the resolution, as I can accept that as a limitation, whereas I know the other problems can be improved.
 
Fantastic stuff, thanks. That's all I wanted to know and more.

Definitely looking forward to hearing more about your VR escapades.
 
Big Takeover said:
Your first car, congratulations. Keep it on the black stuff!
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Thanks man! I've been driving all kinds of cars for six years now, I just didn't have the income to get one for myself and so far it's way up there as one of the funnest cars I've driven.

If it survives the Finnish winter I'll take it to a track or two next spring/summer.
 
Betta Lines said:
RBR FTW

http://youtu.be/0fEIrXv_vBY
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Lovely! I'm going to set this up tonight.

You're right about the significance of scale in VR. Judging distance in rallying is everything. Of course being able head track hairpins is on another planet compared to a small, static fov.

A few days ago I was driving Trento Bondone in AC with the Rift, and it didn't take long before I thought "I kill for some VRRBR right about now". Those few runs I did through the Italian countryside in the little Fiat 500 might not have been the most exciting thing I've done in VR, but it was probably the most realistic. Actually, maybe I should say the most familiar instead.

I'm excited to do it proper with some RBR. Love those menus too. Stroke of genius.
 
Arucardo said:
I was right on the verge of getting a new wheel for the Sims but I ended up buying something just as fun if not more :P

http://webmup.com/xIx1Z/

More info here if anyone is interested :)
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Jelly! How much did that set you back, if you don't mind me asking? I assume you live in the US?

PS. FWIW, I'm not all that familiar with BMW years/shapes, but I know that slightly boxy-yet-modern styling is my favourite of the Beemers. I'm legitimately jealous.
 
Shaneus said:
Jelly! How much did that set you back, if you don't mind me asking? I assume you live in the US?

PS. FWIW, I'm not all that familiar with BMW years/shapes, but I know that slightly boxy-yet-modern styling is my favourite of the Beemers. I'm legitimately jealous.
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Finland actually, paid 2300e for the car (to put it in some perspective a new subaru brz is 35 000e).

Also, I agree on the styling part, I love the look of the old e30,E36 and e46 coupes.
 
rFactor 2 news:

Atlanta Motorsports Park has some of the most insane elevation changes we've ever seen. It is technical, it's enjoyable, and it's fresh.

Both the roadcourse and the karting track (pictured) will be coming to rFactor 2 (for free) after the track survey was completed earlier this week.
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