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Penny-Arcade: "Marketers of the Avenger Controller are thieves and liars".

KageMaru

Member
I'll have the archive of the entire show up in a few minutes and the Interview cut out alone an hour or so after that.

If you didn't enjoy the interview, I apologize. But i tried to ask as many of the chat questions as possible (although many were variations of the same thing) and I did my best to just let Paul talk in his own words without guiding him down a path or badgering him. I did do the research and do know the story. I wasn't reading the emails for the first time. It was a (badly executed) bit.

I think the 2nd half of the interview is a lot better than the first, which is par for the course for DPL because thats when the guests usually relax and are more themselves.

My biggest disappointment was that you didn't call him out on his flip flop responses during your very own interview.

He went from blaming Mike entirely to saying that it's all his fault or talking about how he has money and can drop $20K on a lawyer's desk to how he doesn't have money to give to charity.

I did learn that Paul is really just a very insecure guys who feels the need to lie to make up for his shortcomings. The main problem is that he's too stupid to realize that his actions are getting him into trouble until it's too late. That much seemed clear from your interview.

Edit:

Can someone summarize the entire thing from the begginining? I skimmed by the first page when it was posted, but it wasn't that notable to me. At that time, anyway.

This was on the last page...

Can't believe I read through all these pages, or at least scanned through most. Basically to sum up.

- Dude acts like a total prick to a customer, Penny Arcade gets involved, dude gets what he deserves

- Guy turns out to be a roid rager and all kinds of other shit

- Maker of control damage controls the situation before their whole company gets brought down

- Random white knighters want to complain that the guy faced consequences to his actions

And after all of this, apparently the guy isn't actually contrite or actually getting he was in the wrong, so he deserves anything he gets for acting like a dick.

Also another thought, for me and the rest of the 99%, it makes me sick that this guy somehow had a fairly lucrative (it appears) marketing position with basically no understanding of the English language. The former marketing company made it clear that it seems like the controller maker had delusions of grandeur about trying to make some money getting this supported in stores, and also in the past marketed it as a turbo controller for pros, and not the handicap. Sounds like they're as much to blame for the damage they've taken as well for bringing this guy on without due diligence and their head in the sand over promises.

Either way, the guy's 15 minutes of fame are about up, and he had to deal with his family now.
 

mbmonk

Member
Paul says don't hold my actions against the N-Control company. But even that seems to be clouded in self interest for him. From the Forbes interview.

One thing that I do want to say is the N-Control doesn’t deserve what happened to them because of what happened to me. David Kotkin is an incredible guy. He’s a schoolteacher that took a year off to build his company, and try to make this thing a success. (…) His company doesn’t deserve any of the backlash or this trouble.

We’re not talking right now. But I made $20,000 in commission last month. I sold 10,000 units. I had the potential to make $200,000 this year, and now I don’t have a position with the company any more. If things blow over and I get a position back in the company…. I hope that I would, but I don’t know what’s going to happen. I do represent some other products, [N-Control]‘s not my only client.

So is he really sorry that he has hampered someone else's company or is he hoping that sales of the product go well so when it blows over he can get his customer/job back? I think the latter is at least playing a part in his "mia culpa" routine.
 
Douchebag Chronicles. In The End, Nobody Apologizes.

Starring Paul Christoforo as himself in an epic tale of one mans journey to the top of the douchebag totem pole. Scorned by many, defended by few. His tale takes us through illegal narcotics, the need of sound proofing windows, the experience of years of customer service even though customer service "aint his thing" and the mysterious appearance of a time travelling baby trapped between worlds where one minute he is 2 months old and the next 2 years.
 

ElRenoRaven

Member
So, um, has the fact that Paul's been holding the Avenger Controller domain hostage been raised? Because apparently...

Wow. And you think the guy can't get any scummier.

https://twitter.com/#!/AvengerControl/status/152547340828422145

NControl's new PR guy has a Ask Me Anything on Reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/nw1vm/ama_the_guy_who_replaced_paul_christoforo_and_is/

Very interesting. The more I read the more I'm liking their new PR guy.


p.s: judging by the update, he's now cooperating and surrendering.

After it's made public. Gee wonder what his excuse will be now.

I seriously like this new PR guy they have. He has his head on his shoulders.

Like I said above I agree. This guy has a damn good head on his shoulders it seems. He's answering questions, he's out there talking to people. He seems like he really knows what he's doing. A good start for this guy without a doubt.

Paul says don't hold my actions against the N-Control company. But even that seems to be clouded in self interest for him. From the Forbes interview.



So is he really sorry that he has hampered someone else's company or is he hoping that sales of the product go well so when it blows over he can get his customer/job back? I think the latter is at least playing a part in his "mia culpa" routine.

Yea. That's the one thing that keeps hanging in the back of my head about his whole defending avenger. He made it a point to say him and the creator are friends. Well were and that he isn't even talking to him anymore. So that's why I said that when he did that it showed only a sliver of humility because deep down he very well could be doing that with an ulterior motive but in the end it is a good thing he did. Either way I'll never like the guy. I think he's a scumbag and won't ever truly change. But all said and done be it sincere or not he finally did end with a real apology and in the end that's what I think everyone wanted.
 

Wario64

works for Gamestop (lol)
So, um, has the fact that Paul's been holding the Avenger Controller domain hostage been raised? Because apparently...

https://twitter.com/#!/AvengerControl/status/152547340828422145

NControl's new PR guy has a Ask Me Anything on Reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/nw1vm/ama_the_guy_who_replaced_paul_christoforo_and_is/

Ahahaha oh man. Looks like I'm pulled back into this thread. How much worse can this get? Sheesh

I hope no one is still defending this idiot.


Edit: funny how quick he returns the stuff after it gets posted on reddit...
 

ElRenoRaven

Member
Ahahaha oh man. Looks like I'm pulled back into this thread. How much worse can this get? Sheesh

I hope no one is still defending this idiot.

moiseschiu said:
I'm incorporating a lot of what I want to say about the series of phone conversations I've had with him.

I should preface by saying that I have the sense to leave things at a factual level as much as possible rather than open myself up to claims of defamation, which Paul has routinely thrown around while at once defaming others.

I agree with the notion that one does not negotiate with terrorists, which includes bullies. I say that because I have been strategically pacifying a bully for a couple of days now, and I'm done. Diplomacy has failed.

I've spoken to Paul many, many times over the last few days.

One of the main things that I've learned about him is that he is most concerned about the well-being of his wife and small child, along with his ability to make a living. I can respect and appreciate those things objectively. What I've also learned is that he is partial to protecting those interests without any consideration given to common courtesy or professional engagement.

Every comment regarding N-Control's separation from him was met with complaints to me centered around how N-Control was hurting his family and reputation. He insisted that he did the best thing that ever could have happened to the Avenger and N-Control. It is true that there are some positive vibes coming out of this, but I don't think it's inaccurate to say that the majority of that has all resulted from the damage control I put in place on N-Control's behalf. If you take his actions and delete me or someone doing what I've been doing, there is no turnaround in the first place, much less the huge upswing in sales he is imagining far off into the future. I categorically reject the notion that he can take credit for any of my work, forever and ever amen.

I played nicer than necessary over the last two days, and gave him a chance to do the right thing (return control of Avenger's email addresses, website, and other assets). The worst thing to do is make demands of someone issuing ultimatums when you want something out of them that they know they can use against you. At every step, I was told by Paul that "I like you and everything, and you're reasonable and just trying to do your job, but if they don't do what I say, things are gonna get ugly."

The first day, I told him that if he chose to speak to the press and speak on behalf of N-Control, that all bets were off. He has done that countless times now, and he's been more than warned, and I honestly believe that he doesn't realize that he's doing it. In that early chat, he told me "don't you fucking threaten me! You don't know who the fuck you're dealing with! I will do things to you that you cannot imagine, they are so fucking bad! YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M CAPABLE OF!"

I think I know exactly what he's capable of: yelling and intimidation, with no real intent to follow through, The great thing about bullies is that when you've dealt with enough of them, you realize they're all configured the same way, generally speaking.

I was extensively bullied as a kid. Paul's methods and personality are very familiar to me. I think it should be pretty obvious that it indeed "got better" for me.

I de-escalated the conversation with techniques that I learned while caring for children. I reassured him that no one was out to get him, and that he just couldn't lash out like that or no one would want to play with him.

I should note that I don't care if he considers any of this condescending, especially considering the patronizing tone he's taken with me in every conversation we've had.

In our conversations, he has compared himself to no less than Howard Stern and Charlie Sheen. He has proclaimed himself to be the biggest thing on the internet, and has repeatedly touted how much power he thinks he now has with the press. He told me tonight "if they fuck with me, I got all these websites all over me. Whatever I tell them to write, they write." He says that he has a TV interview with SPIKE TV next week. I look forward to him telling them what to do and what to edit into their coverage.

Tonight, he reiterated that in unmistakable, forceful terms. His abrupt swings in tone and mood were astoundingly rapid. He told me he would burn the company to the ground and destroy everyone associated with it, including me, he regretted to inform me. "I know you're just a guy doing a job and you don't know any better. I'm gonna ruin your life if I have to."

Most people would have the urge to destroy him after being told that. Of course, that would only need to be said if he hadn't already done such a capable job of that himself. That's the part of the press release I wrote that I think he really didn't get: he needs to stop hurting himself, and consequently his family. He's making everything worse every time he opens his mouth, and for his family's sake, I wish he would stop. I'd be amazed if he can make himself look any worse, but I don't put that past him.

I hope that people stop giving him attention, because they're just feeding the beast. As for me, I'm done speaking with him on the phone.

Wow. Just wow. I take back everything I said before now. This guy is a total fucking scumbag in every sense of the word. Read that and tell me the guy really is sorry or that he's learned. He hasn't cause he's a piece of shit. No wonder Kotkin won't talk to him. I wouldn't either.
 

Tim-E

Member
I hope his wife has a strong career, because he's basically ruined his. A family shouldn't have to go through something like this, but this guy seems to be a fucking dimwit who will not learn from any of this, so I don't imagine it getting any better for him. I'll bet his local Arby's is hiring.
 

ElRenoRaven

Member
I like the new guy without a doubt.

moiseschiu said:
This is the first time I've seen this. It's added toward the top of the very, very long to-do list.

Here's a big admission that I've told N-Control they had to make once I found out: some of the positive reviews, like the early ones you mention, were definitely planted. Who did what extent of planting has been difficult to ascertain. The owner has admitted to me that he did one himself. He had a feeling that others were done to fluff the reputation of the product by people who wanted it to succeed. Possibly friends, family, and so on. Possibly those with a business interest in it succeeding. He nor I will speculate that Paul was behind those, but we can't categorically deny that.

What I'll put here and now is that I've informed N-Control in no uncertain terms that if they participate in any further planting of reviews, that I'll walk immediately and not look back. That's the kind of thing that tons of small startups do every day to improve their reputation, but that doesn't make it right.
 

scy

Member
Isn't the new PR replacement in High School still? Kid is doing well for himself so far by the sound of things.

Also, holy shit Paul. Holy shit. He really is latched onto the whole "no such thing as bad publicity" mantra, isn't he?

So wait, what? He apologized yesterday in the terrible live podcast and now there is all this hate again?

"I'm sorry you guys made me do it" isn't an apology, last I checked.
 

ElRenoRaven

Member
Isn't the new PR replacement in High School still? Kid is doing well for himself so far by the sound of things.

Also, holy shit Paul. Holy shit. He really is latched onto the whole "no such thing as bad publicity" mantra, isn't he?



"I'm sorry you guys made me do it" isn't an apology, last I checked.

No. That was a kid that volunteers for the company who pretended to be. They referred him to a super fan who was one of the first who got behind the controller and started supporting it. He got in huge trouble for it and the new guy was hired. He's from Texas.
 

scy

Member
No. That was a kid that volunteers for the company who pretended to be. They referred him to a super fan who was one of the first who got behind the controller and started supporting it. He got in huge trouble for it and the new guy was hired. He's from Texas.

Ah, missed a step somewhere. Knew he gave himself the title erroneously but still kept to it that he was the new guy.
 

ElRenoRaven

Member
Ah, missed a step somewhere. Knew he gave himself the title erroneously but still kept to it that he was the new guy.

Yea it was in the press release when they brought this guy on. I'll find a link again. Oh and I was wrong. The kid works/worked for them. My bad.

*Edit*

http://venturebeat.com/2011/12/29/ocean-marketing-press-release/

Scroll down a bit. They buried it in their article on it.

N-Control employs Eli Schwartz as a part-time Social Media Consultant. He is an enthusiastic high school student who became one of the Avenger’s earliest super fans, meeting the founder at a trade show. Mr. Kotkin is proud to encourage the development of a bright, enthusiastic young person like Eli.

Eli Schwartz is not, however, in charge of Marketing or PR for N-Control. Previous news reports have credited him as Marketing Manager, a title Mr. Schwartz gave himself without the consent or advance knowledge or N-Control management. This occurred during the period of greatest upheaval following Mr. Christoforo’s dismissal, and N-Control regrets that this mixed messaging reached the public. All press inquiries and media requests should instead be directed to Moisés Chiullan at the AvengerDefender@gmail.com address.
 

scy

Member
Thanks. Guess I missed the blurb on Moisés. Good for him, though; if he pulls this around, this could really end up well for him. Doing the AMA was a good decision and I really hope he's in talks with PA to get some more good publicity out there. Internet mob isn't just a force of evil after all.
 

dallow_bg

nods at old men
Crazy how he much he had to fight for the various accounts.
I've been trying to get him to give up the access to these things he's been holding hostage (email accounts, Twitter, etc) by asking nicely for a couple of days. The gloves are off now.

Paul told me on the phone two hours ago that "Eight months ago, I locked down all this stuff so they wouldn't be able to fuck with me. If they don't give me what I want, it's war." His demands include a contract written on his terms and substantial compensation, both immediate and for as long as the company continues to exist. He flaunted the PR debacle he created as proof that he "made the company a success", citing all the media and public attention as the "best thing that ever happened to Avenger".

He didn't count on the fact that I anticipated all of this and have been a computer hardware and web tech since I was 14.

The thing we did have is control over the AvengerController.com domain. It was transferred away from its original account, which Paul has complete control of. Because of how GoDaddy works, that old account retained all of the email addresses and their master control settings (forwarding and so on). He has continued to respond to customer emails from his personal GMail account and lied to me repeatedly about doing so.

I tried to play nice, and Paul played stupid, acting like he didn't have access to this master account, blaming his "Indian outsourced tech team" being on vacation. I gave him two days to give over N-Control's digital property.

He finally leveled with me tonight that he knew I wasn't that stupid and that he was lying about his access to all these accounts. That's when he issued the above-mentioned threat. He reiterated that he had the hosting, email, and everything on lockdown.

Unfortunately, since he doesn't control the domain, he couldn't be more wrong. "James", a GoDaddy support rep and avid redditor, who knew exactly who I was, confirmed that I could do exactly what I wanted to...

Around a hour ago, I parked the domain and killed all the CNAME settings. All that email and the website may be sitting on servers he has access to, but he can't log in to any of the mail or do anything to the website.

I'm getting on the phone with the hosting company to try to get help from them, now that we're past the point of diplomacy.

lol at blaming his outsourced Indian tech team.
 
So wait, what? He apologized yesterday in the terrible live podcast and now there is all this hate again?

Well we found out that he was full of shit again. remember how he was all apologetic about how he'd hurt n control? Well now we now that even as he was saying that he was still holding n control assets hostage and trying to use them to bargain his way back into the company, threatening to destroy them if he didn't.

He only changed that stance a few hours ago after threatening to sue and presumably finding out he was in no position too.

He tried to be a bully with the wrong person AGAIN and went all compliant only after getting publicly slapped down AGAIN.
 

scy

Member
He tried to be a bully with the wrong person AGAIN and went all compliant only after getting publicly slapped down AGAIN.

"The thing he don't realize is that he really has no idea who I am, and unlike Gabe, there's no Wikipedia article on me to give him an overview."

This new guy is gold. I kind of want to make a trip to Austin to personally tell him he's doing a great job on this.
 

ElRenoRaven

Member
"The thing he don't realize is that he really has no idea who I am, and unlike Gabe, there's no Wikipedia article on me to give him an overview."

This new guy is gold. I kind of want to make a trip to Austin to personally tell him he's doing a great job on this.

I wish he had a Neogaf account. It would be interesting to chat it up with the guy. He seems like a cool guy not even taking this into account.
 
Nice opinion piece over at *taku...

How anyone could side with Paul after all this is beyond me. Sometimes some people are so averse to confrontation that they will allow bullies to run freely. I personally am glad to see someone with the ability to help a consumer stand up for a complete stranger and help out.

It's sad that Paul chose to burn down everything he worked for to save some sort of thug caliber face rather than do his job. He ruined N-Control, his own company and continues to think he is in the right.
 

scy

Member
I wish he had a Neogaf account. It would be interesting to chat it up with the guy. He seems like a cool guy not even taking this into account.

With choice quotes like "I learned it on wwebsite as on internet from the Mayor of Boston.", I can't help but root for the guy.
 

Chittagong

Gold Member
Wow, as if we needed yet another confirmation that the guy is a complete idiot and thug, not changing his conduct. It's unbelievably dumb that he figures he still has some leverage he can abuse with Avenger. Every time I think he can't possibly dig any deeper he does exactly that.
 
Nice opinion piece over at *taku...

How anyone could side with Paul after all this is beyond me. Sometimes some people are so averse to confrontation that they will allow bullies to run freely. I personally am glad to see someone with the ability to help a consumer stand up for a complete stranger and help out.

It's sad that Paul chose to burn down everything he worked for to save some sort of thug caliber face rather than do his job. He ruined N-Control, his own company and continues to think he is in the right.

but he's got a wife and kid man. he just had a bad day. his child is in a constant state of flux as well. can you imagine how many clothes they go through with a son that's age changes from two months to two years whenever they open the box they put the cat in?

he was just like a customer who had been screwed over yelling at the staff. he was of course nothing like a customer service guy yelling at a customer who had legitimate complaints. that's such a mad analogy to make.

one time, he yelled at microsoft because his 360 broke and he got a new one AND the one he got repaired.

i still giggle when i remember him relaying that story. 'one time i yelled at a company and they treated me well!'
 
This new guy is damned good at PR. I'm extremely impressed how well he walks that fine line between being honest and sounding like he's just out to trash the other guy. Just enough spice to keep people on N Control's side.
 

nicoga3000

Saint Nic
Everything I read about this (as new updates come in) makes it seem more and more fake, but it's SOOO real. I don't understand how someone can be like this. It actually makes my head hurt a little trying to sort his actions out, ha.
 
Wow. Just wow. I take back everything I said before now. This guy is a total fucking scumbag in every sense of the word. Read that and tell me the guy really is sorry or that he's learned. He hasn't cause he's a piece of shit. No wonder Kotkin won't talk to him. I wouldn't either.

I have absolutely no sympathy for this guy. And if this guy's career is done and he can't provide for his wife and child, it is him who is to blame for all of that. Fuck him.
 

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Everything I read about this (as new updates come in) makes it seem more and more fake, but it's SOOO real. I don't understand how someone can be like this. It actually makes my head hurt a little trying to sort his actions out, ha.

It's actually really simple, and there are a lot of assholes just like him out there.
I told you guys he wouldn't learn, lol.
 
I have absolutely no sympathy for this guy. And if this guy's career is done and he can't provide for his wife and child, it is him who is to blame for all of that. Fuck him.

his wife doesn't have to stay married to him. she'd easily get custody of the kid too i'm sure. i won't be surprised if it actually comes to pass. Paul's problems are entirely his fault, and she's hurting because of them. AMPLE grounds for divorce.
 

ElRenoRaven

Member
Chiullian's twitter is hilarious and sad at the same time. Ignore the timestamp up top. This was taken from my list of feeds I'm following.

1nnGQ.jpg


This tweet is interesting too.

Paul is reading the reddit AMA. I told him that he would not be pleased. I think he believes me.
 
This new guy is damned good at PR. I'm extremely impressed how well he walks that fine line between being honest and sounding like he's just out to trash the other guy. Just enough spice to keep people on N Control's side.

yeah, definitely. I can see this being quite a feather in his cap for his personal PR agency/business if he turns this whole thing into a positive for N-control.
 

Seik

Banned

Wait, just a fucking second...WAIT!!! *PRESS RED 'SHUT EVERYTHING' BUTTON*

"don't you fucking threaten me! You don't know who the fuck you're dealing with! I will do things to you that you cannot imagine, they are so fucking bad! YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M CAPABLE OF!"

WHAT THE HELL! Did Paul really, I mean REALLY said this to the new PR trying to contact him???

If yes, the guy learned JACK SHIT! :(
 
Not surprised at all to learn of the domain/e-mail "hostage situation." The guy has been using all of these accounts to manage e-bay sales, sales of jerseys, etc. I'm sure there's plenty going on in there he'd rather his former bosses didn't know about.

What's good enough from this guy, at this point, that we can just let him drift off into the nether? Obviously any apology coming from him is totally meaningless. We're just gonna ride this fucker right into the ground, aren't we?
 

ElRenoRaven

Member
Wait, just a fucking second...WAIT!!! *PRESS RED 'SHUT EVERYTHING' BUTTON*

"don't you fucking threaten me! You don't know who the fuck you're dealing with! I will do things to you that you cannot imagine, they are so fucking bad! YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M CAPABLE OF!"

WHAT THE HELL! Did Paul really, I mean REALLY said this to the new PR trying to contact him???

If yes, the guy learned JACK SHIT! :(

Hey quit hating the guy. He's just having a bad day damn it.

Not surprised at all to learn of the domain/e-mail "hostage situation." The guy has been using all of these accounts to manage e-bay sales, sales of jerseys, etc. I'm sure there's plenty going on in there he'd rather his former bosses didn't know about.

What's good enough from this guy, at this point, that we can just let him drift off into the nether? Obviously any apology coming from him is totally meaningless. We're just gonna ride this fucker right into the ground, aren't we?

At this point nothing. At the rate things are going he'll be in jail soon for the shit he's either pulling or what they find out he's been doing with those accounts they're having to fight to get control of.
 

hayguyz

Banned
This new guy is damned good at PR. I'm extremely impressed how well he walks that fine line between being honest and sounding like he's just out to trash the other guy. Just enough spice to keep people on N Control's side.

But does he know the mayor of Boston?
 

androvsky

Member
Not surprised at all to learn of the domain/e-mail "hostage situation." The guy has been using all of these accounts to manage e-bay sales, sales of jerseys, etc. I'm sure there's plenty going on in there he'd rather his former bosses didn't know about.

What's good enough from this guy, at this point, that we can just let him drift off into the nether? Obviously any apology coming from him is totally meaningless. We're just gonna ride this fucker right into the ground, aren't we?
I think it's like whack-a-mole, people will mainly be interested in jumping on him only if he pops his head up. Which he's finding very difficult to resist...
 
moiseschiu said:
Paul told me on the phone two hours ago that "Eight months ago, I locked down all this stuff so they wouldn't be able to fuck with me. If they don't give me what I want, it's war." His demands include a contract written on his terms and substantial compensation, both immediate and for as long as the company continues to exist. He flaunted the PR debacle he created as proof that he "made the company a success", citing all the media and public attention as the "best thing that ever happened to Avenger".
God DAMN. I take back the small amount of sympathy I had for Paul Christoforo yesterday. The half apology he gave on yesterday's podcast was a complete fucking lie. This dude is as scummy as they get.
 
God DAMN. I take back the small amount of sympathy I had for Paul Christoforo yesterday. The half apology he gave on yesterday's podcast was a complete fucking lie. This dude is as scummy as they get.

The really aggravating thing is he's half right, at last in that quote you posted. This might well turn out to be the best thing that ever happened to the Avenger. Time will tell.

Doesn't justify his actions, of course, or his mentality here. He's a loathsome human being. Absolutely vile.
 
Aww, Paul went and deleted the thread where he was repeatedly pestering people about how to take his steroids and HGH the same day that he popped off at Customer Dave. He's only hurting his "bad day" defense. =(
 
Not if he really still has clients.

There's just no way that he will, when all is said and done. I still firmly believe he is done in the public relations industry. He should go back to cooking.

I mean, holy shit, he's basically publicly blackmailing his former employer.
 

scy

Member
What's good enough from this guy, at this point, that we can just let him drift off into the nether? Obviously any apology coming from him is totally meaningless. We're just gonna ride this fucker right into the ground, aren't we?

I'm still hoping for the Mayor of Boston to make an official statement.
 
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