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[Dr.Morris79]

Yo, bro. 2002 called. They want their Forum Planet topic back

 

[intbal]

 

[Three]

My favorite trend in the last decade has been armchair developers crying and bitching about gameplay and design decisions in some of the best received and loved games of all time, and claiming they could do better without some very integral things that make those games exactly what they are. We have multiple examples of this kind of decision, of course. We have people who bitch about the deliberate controls and cinematic stylings of Red Dead Redemption 2. We have people who bitch about weapon durability in Breath of the Wild. We have people who bitch about difficulty levels in the Dark Souls games (plus Elden Ring, Sekiro, Bloodborne).

Those last two are especially prevalent everywhere. It's impossible to talk about Elden Ring or Zelda without some "ackchually" keyboard warrior coming in to hijack the discussion and tell us about why the games are terrible because they lack difficulty options or because they have weapon durability, both of those decisions ones very deliberately made by the developers to make the games they wanted to make.

These games are ones that thrive on friction for the player. They're not meant to be polished to the extent that they tell the player everything and are afraid of the player ever feeling lost or frustrated. They're not like modern Ubisoft or Sony games, that mark everything on the map and tell you how many collectibles or quests in a region are left, that shout out the solution to a puzzle or encounter right away because they are so afraid players will get annoyed at the game and stop playing. Being annoyed and trying to figure out how to conquer the thing that annoys you is a huge thing in these games.

I don't know, to me a gamer who truly appreciates the art and craft of game development should be appreciative of how well put together the FromSoft Souls game, the open world Zelda games, or the utter masterpiece that is RDR2, are. Yes, they have their design elements that are controversial, and yes there are some players who can't handle any inconvenience working on ludicrous mods or cheats that add difficulty levels or better controls or unbreakable weapons or what not, but that's very much not the point, and against the entire design philosophy of these games.

Maybe I am rambling, but what do you think GAF? I figure if there is any one place that would understand what I am saying, it would be this one.

I do think some bitching are people overreacting. People who use "preorder cancelled" seriously for something very minor for example but just providing some criticism of gameplay mechanics like weapon durability without overreacting? What's wrong with doing that? That's just voicing your opinion reasonably.

 

[Bring Back Scalebound]

Also, when a person shots your leg off with a shotgun, and you ask them why they did that, and they say "there was a spider walking on it", it's perfectly reasonable to call the police or say you didn't like that.

The INTENT of a developer to do something a certain way, changing your mind on that thing, is a case by case thing.

For the most part, you going "Yeah, this game does play and control like trash, but it was to elevate the cinematic, art-house feel of it (Ignoring the fact that cinematic games that play and control well exist, arguably Until Dawn being an example)", won't at all change how the person feels.

Which is why this just comes off as, again, positivity good, negativity bad and whining, and again, "You just don't get it maaaaan".

When most times, they do. They do get that you shot their leg off with a shotgun, because there was a spider on it.

Doesn't mean they like the pain and the horrific sight of their leg turning into Super Meat Boy.

 

[diffusionx]

The thing about Elden Ring is annoying because From has actually stated why they don't have difficulty settings, many many times. I just beat Sekiro and can honestly say that I would not have had the experience I had, were I able to just turn down the difficulty to easy. It would have been a cool game still, I guess, but maybe on the level of Jedi Survivor instead of one of the best ever.

They are trying to stoke a particular feeling in players, and that is part of their ethos.

 

[LakeOf9]

Read the actual OP of that thread and this thread, otherwise your post is the exact kind of drive by bullshit I am talking about

But I guess on here none of that matters, just some easy brownie points to score

 

[samoilaaa]

 

[cireza]

Of course I am going to play something else. But would I not have the right to share that I don't like this ? I contribute to this industry by buying products, I have a right to express my opinion.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

All I ask for is people to put some effort into their posts.

i apologize for past, current, and future

 

[Wildebeest]

Maybe your ideas are bad, but historically, if companies listened to some of my ideas about game design, they could have made billions.

 

[mitch1971]

Bitching about bitches.

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

Translation: "Hey everybody, if you are not like me just STFU !"

Ok OP, now go back to bed and just

 

[LordCBH]

Fuck off. People can share their opinions that aspects of good games are shit.

 

[SlimySnake]

If you want to live in a bubble where fans jerk each other off while swallowing developers down their throat, resetera is that way.

I am glad that on gaf I can state the most obvious criticisms of industry favorite games that fans and critics alike refused to address. BOTW's problem wasn't just weapon durability, but also a lack of traditional dungeons which were a staple of the series. RDR2 is literally my game of the generation but I dont consider it a crime when someone brings up its very real shortcomings that make the game a chore to play at times.

 

[KXVXII9X]

People are definitely free to voice their opinions and feedback. Some people may go overboard, but art has always been analyzed. Constructive criticism was welcomed and encouraged in my art classes. Just because people are criticizing games, doesn't mean they aren't playing or enjoying today's games.

They are probably pointing out concerns with growing trends that they are seeing in more and more games and want to make it known before it becomes more widespread. I think people severely underestimate how much power the consumer actually has.

While I still enjoy some games being released today, I definitely have my share of concerns, and I will speak out against them within reason. Things are always one or the other in gaming/online discourse.

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

I feel like OP is asking for people to pretend games are perfect and ignore the flaws.

 

[KXVXII9X]

If you want to live in a bubble where fans jerk each other off while swallowing developers down their throat, resetera is that way.

I am glad that on gaf I can state the most obvious criticisms of industry favorite games that fans and critics alike refused to address. BOTW's problem wasn't just weapon durability, but also a lack of traditional dungeons which were a staple of the series. RDR2 is literally my game of the generation but I dont consider it a crime when someone brings up its very real shortcomings that make the game a chore to play at times.

I felt the same way when I was obsessed with Zelda BotW. It made me appreciate criticisms of my favorite games and I slowly began to understand people's issues with it. It made me rethink what I want in a game and made me more discerning. That isn't a bad thing. However, I had enough The Last Guardian slander lol.

 

[ReyBrujo]

You are on a roll, OP.

 

[Loomy]

Eh, people are allowed to have dumb opinions. And they should be free to share them on a forum like this.

 

[trikster40]

Thread bitching about people bitching.

Makes sense.

 

[KXVXII9X]

 

[REMAINSILLY]

If the game I want to play has badly designed, ugly, androgynous women instead of normal ones, you bet your ass I will make it known that I hate it. It's my god-given right.

EDIT: I consider character designs in the same vain as game design. I just want to bitch in this thread about bitching.

 

[ChoosableOne]

I figure if there is any one place that would understand what I am saying, it would be this one.

 

[64bitmodels]

if these opinions about those design decisions piss you off so much, consider arguing for why they should be there and why they make the game BETTER rather than telling people who disagree to shut up. It makes you look like an asshole

 

[SlimySnake]

I felt the same way when I was obsessed with Zelda BotW. It made me appreciate criticisms of my favorite games and I slowly began to understand people's issues with it. It made me rethink what I want in a game and made me more discerning. That isn't a bad thing. However, I had enough The Last Guardian slander lol.

The Last Guardian was my GOTY but my goodness it broke me. The controls were just too bad and trico being a little bitch drove me nuts. It was the final two hours that made me fall in love with the game (just like SOTC back in 2005), and give it my GOTY, but i would never get mad at anyone who expressed their frustrations over the controls in that game.

The funny thing is that when ToTK came out, I didnt even care about the weapon degradation and underwhelming dungeons. I just fell in love with the game design, the focus on physics and all those combat possibilities. So clearly, those shortcomings i had attributed to my lack of enjoyment in BOTW werent the real cause. They were just things i could articulate back then.

People are definitely free to voice their opinions and feedback. Some people may go overboard, but art has always been analyzed. Constructive criticism was welcomed and encouraged in my art classes. Just because people are criticizing games, doesn't mean they aren't playing or enjoying today's games.

Great point. I literally grew up writing critiques on books, and legendary ones at that in high school and college. most of my teachers hated kids who just summarized the books instead of offering an actual opinion. This is literally why i gravitated towards forums back in 2000 and have stuck with them instead of going over to twitter and twitch chats.

 

[64bitmodels]

I hope you are one of those people who got fired from their job recently due to an ugly or stupid design you decided to woke and do.

The best joy I'll have is seeing more of your tears.

oh, and I'll say whatever I want. so fu and your deliberate decisions.

that being said, posts like this are also really dumb. I hope you are one of those people who can actually learn from mistakes because this reply right here is a real big one

 

[TropicanaTwista]

You are correct to an extent. I feel there is way too much complaining by gamers about the state of the industry and what not. However, that doesn't mean that people don't get to have an opinion.

You listed to games/ franchises in ER and Zelda and if I'm being honest, those games are disappointments to me, from the old work of those developers, even if I still think the games are generally fine.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Great post, this ought to settle the debates once and for all.

 

[SlimySnake]

LMAO. What a twist. This thread needs a LIVE tag.

 

[fart town usa]

"Too much Ubisoft bloat."

Anyone who says that about a game they havent played needs their consoles confiscated and their save files deleted.

 

[CoreyFlawless]

I agree

 

[jm89]

Maybe I am rambling, but what do you think GAF? I figure if there is any one place that would understand what I am saying, it would be this one.

 

[dreamstation]

Agree. People can state their opinions but god damn some of them are ridiculous. And they try and convince you to change yours too. Yea nah.

 

[SHA]

People are entitled to have opinions. Stop acting condescending, there is no such thing as "true gamer".

It's the same when we use the phrase "true friends", time passes and eventually life will make us casual.

 

[CoreyFlawless]

LMAO. What a twist. This thread needs a LIVE tag.

Wow. You right. OP, practice what you preach please

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Suck it

 

[lame gag1990]

Getting annoyed at people stating their opinions? Read another thread mon frere.

 

[Putonahappyface]

 

[LakeOf9]

You are correct to an extent. I feel there is way too much complaining by gamers about the state of the industry and what not. However, that doesn't mean that people don't get to have an opinion.

You listed to games/ franchises in ER and Zelda and if I'm being honest, those games are disappointments to me, from the old work of those developers, even if I still think the games are generally fine.

That's fine! And to be honest, I have zero issues with well stated opinions. My entire problem, as I said in the OP, is that I do not like people coming into existing discussions on games and hijacking them with tired drive bys. You want to actually explain your opinions, have at it! I appreciate that! I had some great discussions on this site with people I disagree with. But drive bys and derailing discussions? We should be better than that as a community surely?

 

[The Infectious Paradox]

 

[Gtafans93]

So realistically. People will complain you can't please everyone and People love to get whatever emotions they have out. If they wish to share an opinion they can. if that opinion is whiny and stupid. Just laugh and move on, Easy done

 

[Frwrd]

Criticizing people that's criticizing something that they don't like nor enjoy in a videogame in the same way as others, whether it's a "sKiLl IsSuE" or not on the player they paid their own money for said game and have the right to express their discomfort or even disgust.

Right, or are we really gonna go there? Because if that's the case, then who the fuck are you to tell people what and how to enjoy something? For all I know, not even the developer himself is going to tell me how to enjoy anything.


PS: don't take it personal, I'm just bitching about people that bitches about other people when they bitch about features or the lack thereof in videogames they would like to enjoy but don't or can't for whatever personal reason.

 

[lmimmfn]

Does this include woke shit? Cos that can just fuck off regardless of your opinion.

 

[fart town usa]

Final Fantasy 16 sux ass.

 

[Closer]

There's a fine line between constructive criticism and bitching. Most people bitch, even here.

 

[LakeOf9]

There's a fine line between constructive criticism and bitching. Most people bitch, even here.

Yeah, and that fine line is what I am talking about. People keep posting my Elden Ring thread as a gotcha, but in that thread I spend 700+ words explaining what I think and why, and also praising the game for its merits. I also did not go into an existing discussion and hijack it, I made my own thread for it.

There's a very obvious distinction here, but people on here are more interested in their quick internet brownie points so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Ristifer]

Yeah, and that fine line is what I am talking about. People keep posting my Elden Ring thread as a gotcha, but in that thread I spend 700+ words explaining what I think and why, and also praising the game for its merits. I also did not go into an existing discussion and hijack it, I made my own thread for it.

There's a very obvious distinction here, but people on here are more interested in their quick internet brownie points so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If you feel you’re making good contributions to the forum, then why the fuck do you even care what anyone else says in the first place?

 

[Closer]

If you feel you’re making good contributions to the forum, then why the fuck do you even care what anyone else says in the first place?

 

[Loomy]

Can you imagine if we weren't allowed to whine about games and other gamers on GAF? This forum would die. This very thread wouldn't exist.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Hey OP, your favorite game? It sucks.