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[rofif]

Let me tell you something... there are also no real historical (religious source is not historical) sources of Jesus existing....
It kinda really doesn't matter. I am tired of these dramas with each new game.
Yeah he is a samurai whatever. I am kinda interested because it's not just simple usual samurai game they could make

 

[March Climber]

Why would he do that? Can we exchange our reaction score for prizes or something?

This actually something I have asked about before because I haven't been able to figure it out. This website isn't twitter or youtube so I don't quite get what the exchange is. Maybe one day he'll say something about it.

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

Let me tell you something... there are also no real historical (religious source is not historical) sources of Jesus existing....
It kinda really doesn't matter. I am tired of these dramas with each new game.
Yeah he is a samurai whatever. I am kinda interested because it's not just simple usual samurai game they could make

Yeah, we are kind of buried with Rise of Ronin, GoT, Niohs, Shoguns.

Looks like these Frenchman made the right call for the wrong reasons.

 

[TintoConCasera]

This actually something I have asked about before because I haven't been able to figure it out. This website isn't twitter or youtube so I don't quite get what the exchange is. Maybe one day he'll say something about it.

Maybe he just really loves us?

I don't know, and honestly don't care. Users like him keep the forum alive and well-informed and that's enough for me.

 

[mdkirby]

Let's be honest, everyone knows why people have a problem with this character. And it ain't about realism in a series where the Pope was a sorcerer and Da Vinci made weapons and items for the main character like his own personal Q. And it's not about not being able to play as a Japanese person because there's two protagonists and one is Japanese.

We know why *some* people had a problem with Stellar Blade. So let's be honest and acknowledge why *some* people have a problem with this game.

It's the same people that are ok with Nathan Drake killing scores of people like he's John Wick, but have an issue when Nadene beats two fully grown men in a fist fight. Power fantasies are fine with some characters and not with others.

Honestly some of you that railed against IGN France and Resetera when it came to Eve are no better when it comes to this character. Suddenly no one cares about what the developers want.

It’s nuanced and complicated. I definitely think there are racist people on one side of this debate that are taking issue because they don’t want to play as a black character. I also think there’s racists on the other side, I’ve seen in the commentary on X etc a lot of the people describing Asians as a “white adjacent” privileged class etc.

Then we have older gamers like myself that have been told for many many years, long before things became as hyper partisan and divided as they are these days, that what Ubisoft is doing now is racist/cultural appropriation. It was a plaque in the early 2000’s/2010’s in western adaptations of Japanese media, with things like ghost in the shell etc…which was rightly called out for this sort of stuff back then. We seemed to have move passed all that, and then now when people seeing it happening with this game, and call it out, they get called racist for calling it out, it’s bizarre to me.

Game looks cool tho, I’m looking forward to it.

This is the sort of stuff I remember reading and agreeing with:

Ghost in the Shell’s whitewashing: does Hollywood have an Asian problem? | Ghost in the Shell | The Guardian

From Scarlett Johansson’s heroine in the remake of the anime classic to Tilda Swinton as a Himalayan high priest in Doctor Strange, the film industry stands accused of whitewashing Asian characters and culture. Does it have a defence?

amp.theguardian.com

 

[March Climber]

Users like him keep the forum alive and well-informed and that's enough for me.

I agree. I was explaining to that other poster why this is it's own thread and not just a post in the other thread.

 

[near]

I'd say it's about 70/30. There have been multiple accounts of multiple users here having to fact check his sources or him having to fix his titles.

I've noticed the discrepancies in thread titles and content posted, with poor sources cited. But they've been always open to correcting errors and having thread titles adjusted. You should also consider that not everyone who posts here use English as their first language. It can be a little discouraging to suggest that they aren't posting in good faith, but rather for social traction.

I agree. I was explaining to that other poster why this is it's own thread and not just a post in the other thread.

 

[Zathalus]

Great video that is objective and well researched.

Can't watch right now, what's the verdict? That he was a koshō which are usually Samurai?

 

[Gaiff]

Can't watch right now, what's the verdict? That he was a koshō which are usually Samurai?

Same as before. There's evidence that he might have been but it's not certain. From what I've seen among experts, however, they seem to lean more towards yes.

At least he puts to rest the people who call him a "pet", "slave" or whatever other disparaging term. He had military training, was given a house, a sword, and had a salary. There's even some artwork that depicts someone assumed to be him wrestling another man. He wasn't some super badass Afro Samurai dude in Japan, but he wasn't a nobody or a mere slave either.

 

[IDKFA]

The extremists give everyone a bad name. I'm anti-woke but the only problem I had with the trailer was zero gameplay.
People need to get a life. Not everything is woke.

The only problem people should have with the game is that it's made by Ubisoft and the full experience will probably cost £200. Instead, people are going to war over the historical accuracy in a AC game.

Let me tell you something... there are also no real historical (religious source is not historical) sources of Jesus existing....

There are real historical sources of Jesus existing that come from non Christians.

Most historians, regardless of their religion, agree that Jesus was a real historical figure.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

A black guy and Asian chick existing isn’t woke. But if you start the game and they’re like, “before we fight, what are your preferred pronouns?” and “can I get your consent to have my blade touch you”, then we can revisit.

 

[March Climber]

I've noticed the discrepancies in thread titles and content posted, with poor sources cited. But they've been always open to correcting errors and having thread titles adjusted.

I agree.

You should also consider that not everyone who posts here use English as their first language.

This is fair too.

It can be a little discouraging to suggest that they aren't posting in good faith, but rather for social traction.

I didn't say that, I said he does engagement fishing. You can do that with correct information just as well as false information.

You interpreted it as an attack. I said his titles and threads are about 70/30 in accuracy. If you check my post history you'll see I've put Draugoth up there in the top 5 along with Ibiza and Thick Thighs in terms of news posting. His batting average with titles isn't as good, but that doesn't mean he's not a top 5 news poster.

Some of you have to stop going into defensive stances at valid criticisms.

 

[Gaiff]

Let me tell you something... there are also no real historical (religious source is not historical) sources of Jesus existing....

Actually, there is. What Jesus lacks are contemporary sources, ie, eyewitnesses or people who knew him, or secondary sources who lived during his time. Tacitus, who is his most trusted source, lived around 70 years after Jesus' reported death. In historical terms, that's very short, but people are often assholes and ask for unreasonable evidence regarding the existence of a historical Jesus.

 

[rofif]

The only problem people should have with the game is that it's made by Ubisoft and the full experience will probably cost £200. Instead, people are going to war over the historical accuracy in a AC game.



There are real historical sources of Jesus existing that come from non Christians.

Most historians, regardless of their religion, agree that Jesus was a real historical figure.

I've tried looking into this topic.
debatable. The so called sources were written 100-200 years after supposed death of this person.
Anyway - I don't want to talk about this. It's just an example... maybe not correct one. I am not an expert

 

[adamsapple]

Aye man, I just want a good fuckin' game. I loved the shit out of AC Odyssey but Valhalla was disappointing. More of the former, less of the later please.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Can't watch right now, what's the verdict? That he was a koshō which are usually Samurai?

That we don't know and at best he was considered Bushi and acted more like a bodyguard to Nobunaga(which is true). But there was a thing where if you were a Samurai and your Daimyo/Lord was killed or committed suicide you were to commit Ritual Suicide. That didn't happen.

But I think the more important issue in regards to the game itself is the price, performance and the lack of gameplay.

 

[N30RYU]

The only and true

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

It's not a dealbreaker for the game, it also didn't need to be this way.

I cringe thinking how much the woke writers were salivating about the existence of Yasuke and that's the issue, the decision was not made because they genuinely thought they had something interesting to do with it, it was made for political brownie points and people are getting tired of shit no longer being done because it's simply what's most fun and interesting, people are also getting fed up of black characters being used as wedge issues.

It's just on it's face bizarre to be playing as a black man in feudal Japan, even if it's based on a real person, but here's the thing, do you think the creators even care? Even if there was no such thing there'd probably still be doing this and then saying "well, there COULD have been"

 

[March Climber]

The only and true

Hoping for a character skin/collaboration.

 

[Rudius]

The game won't even be good, why care?

 

[CLW]

If I become Japan's second black samurai, will Gaf support me in a bid to have a game about me?

Y/N?

Depends on your preferred pronouns of course

 

[rofif]

If I become Japan's second black samurai, will Gaf support me in a bid to have a game about me?

Y/N?

Depends.
You need to be a sword swallower. Which means DICKS

 

[Puscifer]

People get weird when a person of colour is portrayed in media and pretend it's about "accuracy". To the point of going and changing the guy's wiki once they discovered it was about a real person who really was black in real historical Japan lol. How many depictions have we had of some white guy being in a setting like that and becoming the centre of everything, to no response from these places?

Some people barely hide it. A decent part of gaf is no different.

I caught a warning for telling people just admit you don't wanna play as Saga because she's black and how many people didn't get the irony in the characters that were outwardly racist were ctually made to be jokes in the grand scheme of things

 

[Randall365]

It's not a dealbreaker for the game, it also didn't need to be this way.

I cringe thinking how much the woke writers were salivating about the existence of Yasuke and that's the issue, the decision was not made because they genuinely thought they had something interesting to do with it, it was made for political brownie points and people are getting tired of shit no longer being done because it's simply what's most fun and interesting, people are also getting fed up of black characters being used as wedge issues.

It's just on it's face bizarre to be playing as a black man in feudal Japan, even if it's based on a real person, but here's the thing, do you think the creators even care? Even if there was no such thing there'd probably still be doing this and then saying "well, there COULD have been"

It was presumably green lit when the Black Lives Matter stuff was going on and the developers wanted to show their support - as presumably there is no way this game doesn’t address discrimination throughout.

Maybe makes sense in the US, but for everyone else in the World it’s just a bit weird playing a Japanese samurai game and you can’t be a Japanese samurai. If the game’s great, it won’t matter of course.

 

[mdkirby]

I caught a warning for telling people just admit you don't wanna play as Saga because she's black and how many people didn't get the irony in the characters that were outwardly racist were ctually made to be jokes in the grand scheme of things

Saga was great. Her segments were my favourite in Alan wake. I also think believing that those who took umbridge with her were potentially racist would have some fair validity. This is quite different tho imo.

Let’s not forget too that Asians have and continue to have to fight incredibly hard for representation in staring roles in big budget western productions. Even now it’s very rare they get cast as the protagonist, and are almost always typecast as supporting side characters as the funny guy, or geeky maths guy. Black actors won that battle years ago and are often cast in leading roles, for Asians it’s very much an ongoing battle. So this was a western company yet again depriving an Asian actor a leading star role that couldn’t be more suited for them.

Hell even Spider-Man, a supposed DEI infested mega woke production, made the Asian character a goofy chubby nerd…who hilariously was called out as being a hurtful stereotype in insomniacs own leaked DEI training videos by their Asian cultural consultant.

This is why this is bad, even if it will probably be a cool story and the character looks pretty badass.

 

[Draugoth]

No, Draugoth keeps the community informed with developing topics and news.

I'd say it's about 70/30. There have been multiple accounts of multiple users here having to fact check his sources or him having to fix his titles.

I only post what i feel it's interesting. Otherwise i would be wasting much more time here on Gaf.

On the thread titles, yeah my fault. I just type like a monkey.

 

[Wimbledon]

Great video that is objective and well researched.

This was a really good video. I'm not going to lie I would love to see his story beyond the game format from the little history that was told sounds like the man lived quite the adventurous life.

 

[near]

I agree.

This is fair too.

I didn't say that, I said he does engagement fishing. You can do that with correct information just as well as false information.

You interpreted it as an attack. I said his titles and threads are about 70/30 in accuracy. If you check my post history you'll see I've put Draugoth up there in the top 5 along with Ibiza and Thick Thighs in terms of news posting. His batting average with titles isn't as good, but that doesn't mean he's not a top 5 news poster.

Some of you have to stop going into defensive stances at valid criticisms.

You didn't say he wasn't posting in good faith, but it's implied when you suggested they're 'engagement fishing'. You can call it a defensive stance if you feel inclined to, it's a nice way to deflect. That was not a valid criticism. You outright suggested the OP was fishing for engagement, I call you out on it because I completely disagree. In a way, it is an attack on the user in question. You proceed to defend the claim by referring to inaccuracies in some threads created which has little relevance to your initial accusation. I'm sorry, but you don't just make comments like that unwarranted, especially when it's a valued member, and then sugar coat it as valid criticism. There are no inaccuracies in the OP, nothing wrong with the thread title, and your comment was simply out of pocket.

 

[proandrad]

Who is more offended, the woke folk from Stellar Blade or the anti-woke over Assassin's Creed? Time to boycott!

 

[March Climber]

I only post what i feel it's interesting. Otherwise i would be wasting much more time here on Gaf.

On the thread titles, yeah my fault. I just type like a monkey.

I appreciate the reasonable response and explanation

 

[hemo memo]

I'm glad we already got the real AC Samurai game (Cyberpunk 2077).

FTFY

 

[R3TRO]

These people need to get a job…

 

[ProtoByte]

Great video that is objective and well researched.

Yeah, good video.

Everybody becoming experts on the subject outrage of the day, and they all look stupid in the face of actual expert analysis.

 

[SHA]

"Wikipedia"
I'm trying to be fair here, the site is clearly westernized, regardless of the topic it has always been the case with this site, it's not a hub for spitting some truth, not even a fraction of percent, I'm sorry but you have to do your homework if you're really interested "I'm not actually".

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

It was presumably green lit when the Black Lives Matter stuff was going on and the developers wanted to show their support - as presumably there is no way this game doesn’t address discrimination throughout.

Maybe makes sense in the US, but for everyone else in the World it’s just a bit weird playing a Japanese samurai game and you can’t be a Japanese samurai. If the game’s great, it won’t matter of course.

Hysteria is what all that was and it's made the grave by mistake by making black people seem to represent something threatening to everyone else, beyond the violence people were willing to show they'd use in 2020, it sends this implicit message that black people are way more important a group than everyone else.

It especially comes off as noxious since there's been a series of literal hate crimes against Asians perpetrated by blacks in the years since.

 

[Hestar69]

and vikings too!

Which I find kinda silly but whatever. Nowadays it's all about representation it seems, although only for a selected few.


Why would he do that? Can we exchange our reaction score for prizes or something?

All about pushing the anti white agenda.

 

[Masterofchapter]

I'm glad we already got the real AC Samurai game (Ghost of Tsushima).

Make ghost set in city not some crappy villages better Parkour, better combat, way more enemy variety then maybe ac outshines ghost in every way ac shadows probably going to eat got alive

 

[ByWatterson]

What's really going to bake their noodles is that the Borgias weren't really in cahoots to steal an Eden apple so they could commune with aliens. Isn't that weird?

.....

 

[jason10mm]

But yeah if it was set during the Aztec empire, and Ubisoft had specifically dug around historical records and folk tales to find a single brief tale of a white British guy, just so they could have a white guy be the main character instead of someone from the native culture, I’m pretty certain the general consensus would be to call it pretty racist, even if the myth/tale is pretty cool in isolation .

Edit: damn I really want an assassins creed game set during the Aztec empire now.

Same.

But there WERE rumors/legends about white people (fair skinned anyway) in central/south america pre-Columbus. Theories of druids coming down the coast to much earlier migrations from europe (which have archeological evidence but probably wouldn't result in white people still around by the 1400s or whatever.

Are they still doing the "past life" thing? In that case they do need an ancestor in there somewhere.

 

[j0hnnix]

 

[Fbh]

Let me tell you something... there are also no real historical (religious source is not historical) sources of Jesus existing....
It kinda really doesn't matter. I am tired of these dramas with each new game.
Yeah he is a samurai whatever. I am kinda interested because it's not just simple usual samurai game they could make

Pretty much.
I mean if Assassins Creed presented itself as a grounded history focused franchise I could see the argument.
But in the game about people jumping around rooftops looking for alien artifacts that basically give them superpowers this whole drama over if he truly was a samurai or not is silly.

 

[bender]

Pretty much.
I mean if Assassins Creed presented itself as a grounded history focused franchise I could see the argument.
But in the game about people jumping around rooftops looking for alien artifacts that basically give them superpowers this whole drama over if he truly was a samurai or not is silly.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it

 

[Muffdraul]

Pretty much.
I mean if Assassins Creed presented itself as a grounded history focused franchise I could see the argument.
But in the game about people jumping around rooftops looking for alien artifacts that basically give them superpowers this whole drama over if he truly was a samurai or not is silly.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

It’s nuanced and complicated. I definitely think there are racist people on one side of this debate that are taking issue because they don’t want to play as a black character. I also think there’s racists on the other side, I’ve seen in the commentary on X etc a lot of the people describing Asians as a “white adjacent” privileged class etc.

Then we have older gamers like myself that have been told for many many years, long before things became as hyper partisan and divided as they are these days, that what Ubisoft is doing now is racist/cultural appropriation. It was a plaque in the early 2000’s/2010’s in western adaptations of Japanese media, with things like ghost in the shell etc…which was rightly called out for this sort of stuff back then. We seemed to have move passed all that, and then now when people seeing it happening with this game, and call it out, they get called racist for calling it out, it’s bizarre to me.

Game looks cool tho, I’m looking forward to it.

This is the sort of stuff I remember reading and agreeing with:

Ghost in the Shell’s whitewashing: does Hollywood have an Asian problem? | Ghost in the Shell | The Guardian

From Scarlett Johansson’s heroine in the remake of the anime classic to Tilda Swinton as a Himalayan high priest in Doctor Strange, the film industry stands accused of whitewashing Asian characters and culture. Does it have a defence?

amp.theguardian.com

Asian erasure has been an ongoing problem in Hollywood for over a century. It's not new news at all. Netflix literally replaced the entirely Chinese cast of the Chinese science fiction novel The Three Body Problem written by Chinese author Liu Cixin with a bunch of white and black people for their TV series. This is normal for Hollywood, they have always been super racist against Asians

The problem with replacing an Asian man with a black man in AC Shadows isn't that the replacement is black. It's that they replaced an Asian

 

[Outlier]

It's really dumb to complain about this. Ubisoft has made it clear since forever that these games are works of FICTION. The historical settings and character only serve as icing on cake.

 

[shamoomoo]

It's not a dealbreaker for the game, it also didn't need to be this way.

I cringe thinking how much the woke writers were salivating about the existence of Yasuke and that's the issue, the decision was not made because they genuinely thought they had something interesting to do with it, it was made for political brownie points and people are getting tired of shit no longer being done because it's simply what's most fun and interesting, people are also getting fed up of black characters being used as wedge issues.

It's just on it's face bizarre to be playing as a black man in feudal Japan, even if it's based on a real person, but here's the thing, do you think the creators even care? Even if there was no such thing there'd probably still be doing this and then saying "well, there COULD have been"

How in a fantasy game?

 

[ungalo]

The 'anti-woke" crowd is really easy to trick. Now they are embroiled in a historical debate when that's not even what matters..

Perhaps it's because they have to take twist and turn so they don't get called racist and they have a hard time getting straight to the point.

Like the fact the character is a historical figure would make this choice more neutral from Ubisoft, it's absurd. And i'm not just saying neutral politically, even artistically. You're entitled not wanting to play a character that you think hurt the context, the immersion and that you feel out of place, you don't have to write a piece of paper about how accurate it is.

It's a choice that has written "2024 video game industry" all over it. It's something Ubisoft fed us with its characters since AC Syndicate actually. And that's fine if that works for them, i personally don't like it, i feel the tone of those games is very dumb and vulgar, it's anti immersive for me, breaks any imaginary thought, like many other current games i have to say.

This things should not be taboo but at the same time i think it should stay an artistic debate.

 

[jason10mm]

A black guy and Asian chick existing isn’t woke. But if you start the game and they’re like, “before we fight, what are your preferred pronouns?” and “can I get your consent to have my blade touch you”, then we can revisit.

Well, I for one would be VERY disappointed if there isn't an "Alabama black snake" reference

I'm guessing the story needs an outsider to learn and grow within the Japanese system, as that is the typical AC pattern. Using this person, versus a European, is a creative choice but whatever. I'm sure this character will learn from Miyamoto Mushashi, probably get a Hattori Hanzo blade. That's about the level of historic accuracy I'm expecting.

 

[violence]

Make ghost set in city not some crappy villages better Parkour, better combat, way more enemy variety then maybe ac outshines ghost in every way ac shadows probably going to eat got alive

Odyssey and Valhalla were bloat city. I didn’t even finish those games. We’ll see when AC shadow comes out but Ghost is already better than those other games in my opinion.

 

[Silver Wattle]

The main issue I take with this, is how they finally make an AC game about Japan and they pick a nobody, non-japanese as the main character.

We all know exactly why they picked this dude, it's zero to do with anything other than his skin colour.

This games going to be woke as fuck, it's going to constantly throw in your face about how the Japanese treat him so poorly for being black etc.