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[Celcius]

On PC of course there aren't any "generations", but on consoles we've recently gotten used to backwards compatibility.

The PS5 is backwards compatible with the PS4. We expect that the PS6 will be backwards compatible with PS5 and PS4.
The Xbox Series consoles are backwards compatible with the Xbox One consoles. We expect that the next Xbox will continue the backwards compatibility.
The Switch wasn't backwards compatible but we're all expecting Nintendo's next console to be backwards compatible with the Switch.

Do you think we've reached a point in the industry where any of the major 3 can ever afford to break backwards compatibility for a new system? Or do we now expect that the console game purchases we make today will always be available to download and play on future consoles as well?

 

[//DEVIL//]

There is a reason why PC is backward compatible. because they are on Windows ecosystem.

Steam Deck inst backward compatible with all games on steam on windows.

the same thing will apply to consoles. the minute they switch from AMD, they are done for. same reason why there is no PS3 backward compatible playstation console.

The only way to achieve cross hardware backward compatible, is for the new hardware to be vastly powerful to the point it can emulate the other older not the same architecture console.

 

[rofif]

Yeah we can expect ps6,7,8 all to be BC with ps4+ in my opinion.

 

[stn]

I hope BC continues. I enjoy playing older games but I also don't want to have 10+ consoles connected just to do that. A console that is BC greatly increases the chances I will buy it.

 

[yurinka]

On PC of course there aren't any "generations", but on consoles we've recently gotten used to backwards compatibility.

The PS5 is backwards compatible with the PS4. We expect that the PS6 will be backwards compatible with PS5 and PS4.
The Xbox Series consoles are backwards compatible with the Xbox One consoles. We expect that the next Xbox will continue the backwards compatibility.
The Switch wasn't backwards compatible but we're all expecting Nintendo's next console to be backwards compatible with the Switch.

Do you think we've reached a point in the industry where any of the major 3 can ever afford to break backwards compatibility for a new system? Or do we now expect that the console game purchases we make today will always be available to download and play on future consoles as well?

Yes, the lack of BC always has been due to having too diferent hardware, or the physical games format.

Nowadays PC, console and mobile have pretty much the same hardware, and will continue getting more similar over time. Meaning, expect future consoles being BC in the future.

Specially because game subs and cloud gaming will continue growing, and becoming more multiplatform, and BC older catalog will be a differentiator between the different services.

 

[cartman414]

There is a reason why PC is backward compatible. because they are on Windows ecosystem.

Steam Deck inst backward compatible with all games on steam on windows.

the same thing will apply to consoles. the minute they switch from AMD, they are done for. same reason why there is no PS3 backward compatible playstation console.

The only way to achieve cross hardware backward compatible, is for the new hardware to be vastly powerful to the point it can emulate the other older not the same architecture console.

It has a little more to do with x86, but even so, there have been transitional points, having to do with legacy instructions no longer being supported. (Not to mention graphics libraries.)

 

[NeverYouMind]

I think everyone here forgets how profitable reselling collections is. Even if they could be backwards compatible technically unless the plaform holder doesn't have enough confidence in the software on a new system they will break with backwards compatibility.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

I would not expect regular PS4 BC with PS6. PS5, yes, if Sony continues to use AMD. With streaming maybe.

 

[March Climber]

I think everyone here forgets how profitable reselling collections is.

Something's off then, because Sony would have put a small team on bringing PS3 franchises like Killzone, Resistance, and Infamous natively onto (at least) the PS4. Instead, they opted for game streaming servers for their PS Now service (PS Plus Premium today), even though they know fans of all 3 franchises would re-buy just for the fact that they aren't stuck on PS3 anymore.

 

[Mr Hyde]

BC is very important for me. I will not buy future consoles if they are not BC with previous generation.

 

[EDMIX]

On PC of course there aren't any "generations", but on consoles we've recently gotten used to backwards compatibility

Well, as a long time PC gamer, that isn't entirely true.

I have a few work arounds for older PC titles and even have a PC build with 4 HDDs to house Win XP, Win 7 and 2 Win 10s. (Compatibility mode btw isn't always as useful as MS made it out to be in some situations). Regardless, it isn't some magic, 1 PC can play them all type of thing.

Funny enough, a lot of games that need workarounds to run on PC, are for some of the same reasons why some games don't support BC on console, either a change in format, architecture etc causes a game to be better remastered vs a BC type thing.

So can we have a 1 console to rule em all? Maybe 1 day, but it sounds like it literally might be easier to just remaster those older titles. Look at Persona 3 and 4, they got HD remasters right?

Imagine PS6 trying to get PS3 or PS2 working, sure you might have the old DVD of Persona 3 and Persona 4 from PS2, but are you 100% sure that is even the way most will really play those titles? Would it not just make sense to just have Persona 3 and Persona 4 HD on PSN vs the original ports? So I think many have a better chance of those titles being remastered for newer design, then having everything BC by default.

How would it handle the sixaxis stuff? like motion?

I'm going to say what I've said for generations to many, just buy the fucking system used lol The time wasted waiting for this, is time that anyone could have literally ran thru so many of those games and some even realizing some of those games sucked lol Regardless, it makes more sense for systems like PS3, to just buy a Native version and move on. (of course that is easy for me to say having like 6 or so PS3s from original BC, to PS3 Slims, to MGS4 PS3 lol)

but I'd say this shit even if that wasn't my situation.

The PS5 is backwards compatible with the PS4. We expect that the PS6 will be backwards compatible with PS5 and PS4.

I agree with this...

Yeah we can expect ps6,7,8 all to be BC with ps4+ in my opinion.

I don't know if I agree with this though lol

Its too far ahead and we have no clue what some of those systems might try that make them radically different to the point of it being hard to do BC or something.

 

[NeverYouMind]

Something's off then, because Sony would have put a small team on bringing PS3 franchises like Killzone, Resistance, and Infamous natively onto (at least) the PS4. Instead, they opted for game streaming servers for their PS Now service (PS Plus Premium today), even though they know fans of all 3 franchises would re-buy just for the fact that they aren't stuck on PS3 anymore.

I think many publishers are looking for a way to lock people into services to play their games. On the other hand, they might consider the investment not profitable enough as Last of Us was ported to the PS4 in the blink of an eye.

 

[The Pleasure]

Pcs don't have eras?

Cga/8086
Ega/286
Vga/386/486sx
SVGA/486dx/pentium era
3D ACCELERATOR/pentium mmx era or pentium 2

Pcs definitely have eras.

 

[diffusionx]

Unless a device is totally different I don't see how you can go back from this paradigm. And I also think it is the paradigm that the hardware makers want because this provides lock-in. If you have a massive collection of PS5 games you are much more likely to buy a PS6 than even consider an Xbox. If you recall, Phil has even gone on record saying this is a problem for Xbox because they shit the bed at the exact moment that people were building up digital libraries.

Pcs don't have eras?

Cga/8086
Ega/286
Vga/386/486sx
SVGA/486dx/pentium era
3D ACCELERATOR/pentium mmx era or pentium 2

Pcs definitely have eras.

Yea there are definitely eras and now people even build retro PCs targeting those eras, and those eras last about as long as a console generation (or even shorter, like in the 1990s when tech was advancing massively every 1-2 years), but backwards compatibility was always handled on the OS side and can also be resolved by fan patches/DOSBOX.

 

[analog_future]

I think the only thing that could jeopardize this is the move to ARM in the console space.


But you'd hope MS/Sony would put the time and investment into building some kind of emulation wrapper to retain compatibility with old titles at that point.

 

[TrebleShot]

With cloud youll have it

 

[NeverYouMind]

I think the only thing that could jeopardize this is the move to ARM in the console space.


But you'd hope MS/Sony would put the time and investment into building some kind of emulation wrapper to retain compatibility with old titles at that point.

I am more afraid of ARM taking over in the computer space.

 

[NightmareFarm]

We haven't gotten used to it. The 9th gen consoles are the first generation to be universally BC since 6th gen and the 9th gen consoles are the weakest technological leap to date.

If we want the next gen consoles to bring a significant technological revolution then it's going to have to ditch the BC in exchange for more beefy specs.

 

[jcorb]

I'm honestly not sure. I know that *I* value backwards compatibility, but it's clear that it flies in the face of a lot of modern publishers, who want subscriptions to access your own games. There's that POS comment from Ubisoft recently talking about just that.

It's a reason I'm definitely steering away from digital purchases anymore, though. I want to actually have ownership of my games.

 

[NeonDelta]

With cloud youll have it

until they remaster games to sell full price and remove them from the cloud, or even worse..remove due to licensing. It’s the one thing that really worries me about the inevitable cloud future. At least now you can play majority of games you’ve paid for after they have been removed from storefront (other than online only games)

 

[Icymanipulator]

If my Switch library doesn’t follow me to Nintendos next console I will be done with them forever.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Yeah we can expect ps6,7,8 all to be BC with ps4+ in my opinion.

Bro... accelerationism and hypercapitalism will put a stop to that, dead in its tracks. I see the industry getting more draconian as time moves on, personally.

 

[March Climber]

Bro... accelerationism and hypercapitalism will put a stop to that, dead in its tracks. I see the industry getting more draconian as time moves on, personally.

How so?

 

[bender]

Bro... accelerationism and hypercapitalism will put a stop to that, dead in its tracks. I see the industry getting more draconian as time moves on, personally.

Cost of development will probably ensure backward compatibility from here on out so that games can continually release to a 100 million userbase. And if you you are backwards. compatible with the previous generation that already had backward compatibility for its' predecessor, it isn't hard to imagine full backward compatibility until you hit a major architectural shift (PS3 -> PS4).

 

[Dirk Benedict]

How so?

Cost of development will probably ensure backward compatibility from here on out so that games can continually release to a 100 million userbase. And if you you are backwards. compatible with the previous generation that already had backward compatibility for its' predecessor, it isn't hard to imagine full backward compatibility until a major architectural shift happens.

bender that makes sense, but I've seen companies go against common sense, lol.
I think we might possibility get one more gen of B/C and that's it, maybe another gen with one console manufacturer, possibly 2.

I mean, it could be cheaper to offer B/C when everything is software based and downloaded, but there is the crux of the matter, that same software is becoming more and more controlled, locked down. I also think there is less of an incentive to offer B/C, once physical is out the door.

When I think of B/C I usually think of my physical collection being compatible with next gen. I don't think of my downloaded library.

 

[Raonak]

I think BC is here to stay because how valuable the digital library is to keeping a consumer attached to your platform.
By removing BC now, you giving the user a big excuse to jump ship.

Like MS said, the PS4 generation was the worst one to lose precisely because of this.

 

[magnumpy]

I hope so!

 

[Closer]

I still think Swutch/PS6/Xbox12step won't be backwards compatible because of greed.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Needs to be the case.

 

[Griffon]

At the least I expect Nintendo to lose backward compatibility within two generations, because Nvidia will inevitably be too much of a cunt to deal with.

 

[Fbh]

I really hope so but the thing with consoles is that you never know.
I do think console makers now have a big incentive to keep their systems backwards compatible, but I could also see the day they go away from AMD or they move to ARM or something like that which makes it technically challenging.

I think everyone here forgets how profitable reselling collections is. Even if they could be backwards compatible technically unless the plaform holder doesn't have enough confidence in the software on a new system they will break with backwards compatibility.

While this is true, on the other side of the coin I think console makers have realized that having a big digital library is a huge source of brand loyalty for people.
Phil Spencer even talked about it during an interview. Being so behind during the 1X/Ps4 generation was a big blow for Xbox because it was the gen were console players really started building their digital libraries.
Even before specs and exclusives and marketing and all that, Series S/X had an uphill battle in that the Ps5 being backwards compatible meant that anyone with a decent library of Ps4 games already had a significant incentive to stick with playstation (same for Xbox 1 owners....there just were a lot more Ps4 owners out there).

 

[Bridges]

BC is very important to me. The utter bullshit of PS4 and Xbox One not having BC was confounding to me at the time and it would be even worse now.

But I feel pretty confident BC will be a priority going forward though. The main reason is the dreaded Live Service game/GaaS model.

Nobody will want to release a console that cannot play Fortnite Day 1. We are in a unique time where the most played games are compromised of many of the same most played games from 5ish years ago: Fortnite, Rainbow 6 Siege, Fall Guys, Warzone, PUBG, Roblox, Rocket League, Apex Legends, GTA Online, Minecraft, Overwatch, Destiny, Smite, World of Tanks... etc

The people that are addicted to these games aren't going to buy a PS6 when their old console can play them all just fine. They need the one two punch of the shiny new games alongside the performance boost to the game they already love, and they need all of the time and money invested to carry forward.

I cannot fathom MS or Sony requiring devs to make a new version of their existing service game before players can access it on their new hardware. For as much bad as I think the GaaS trend has done to the industry, in this way I think we all really stand to benefit from it.

Now when it comes to Nintendo, nothing is ever certain with them. I hope to God they have BC but I will never pretend like anything in their future can be predicted. For all we know they'll go back to discs next gen and once again leave our libraries behind, and people (including myself) will still line up to buy it.

 

[ReBurn]

Xbox and PlayStation have essentially adopted PC architecture. As long as they keep it why would they need to break backward compatibility?

 

[EDMIX]

Xbox and PlayStation have essentially adopted PC architecture. As long as they keep it why would they need to break backward compatibility?

Because even on PC itself that isn't a 100%, sure ,1.1 exact thing.

Why would it be on console?

So many things change from generation to generation and how computing is today, will be radically different tomorrow. So If I can't even fucking tell you a PC game from 20 years ago can play on Windows 11, how on Earth could I predict consoles in the future always being BC?


I feel strongly that PS6 and the next BoX will be BC, I cannot say that about the next several systems over though.

Many things can change.

For many companies, it may not even be worth it as such a small percentage even play titles dating past 6 months, let along multiple generations. So i feel this isn't as straight forward as many people think

 

[March Climber]

I think we might possibility get one more gen of B/C and that's it, maybe another gen with one console manufacturer, possibly 2.

I mean, it could be cheaper to offer B/C when everything is software based and downloaded, but there is the crux of the matter, that same software is becoming more and more controlled, locked down. I also think there is less of an incentive to offer B/C, once physical is out the door.

When I think of B/C I usually think of my physical collection being compatible with next gen. I don't think of my downloaded library.

Very interesting take, because it's exactly what I think of Nintendo and hardware, not Sony/Xbox and software. I think the latter two will want that huge library in a Steam-like capacity.

I think the only party who would make everything more phone-like and force faster expiration dates on digital games if they entered the console space, would be Apple.

The utter bullshit of PS4 and Xbox One not having BC was confounding to me at the time

The minute I researched why PS3 games didn't work on PS4, I stopped being angry about it. All it took was a few minutes to look up the 'why' and learning about the ridiculousness of the architecture makes me give PS3 a pass.

Now, regarding PS2 and PS1, I'd agree with the anger, as that is an issue of 'laziness' on Sony's part. I say laziness in quotes because they technically have the resources and software for both PS1 and PS2 emulation, including the capacity to read an older disc on PS4/PS5.

 

[ReBurn]

Because even on PC itself that isn't a 100%, sure ,1.1 exact thing.

Why would it be on console?

So many things change from generation to generation and how computing is today, will be radically different tomorrow. So If I can't even fucking tell you a PC game from 20 years ago can play on Windows 11, how on Earth could I predict consoles in the future always being BC?


I feel strongly that PS6 and the next BoX will be BC, I cannot say that about the next several systems over though.

Many things can change.

For many companies, it may not even be worth it as such a small percentage even play titles dating past 6 months, let along multiple generations. So i feel this isn't as straight forward as many people think

I never said they needed to be backward compatible forever. I just said they didn't need to break It on purpose. I would be surprised if most people even really play that many games from prior generations. That said, I'm still able to run all of the PC games I've purchased in the last 20 years so the changes to PC tech haven't really broken much. The only PC games I have that I can't just boot up natively on my modern Windows PC are DOS-based games, but hardly anyone is playing those any more.

 

[KungFucius]

BC is very important for me. I will not buy future consoles if they are not BC with previous generation.

Bullshit.

 

[cartman414]

Unless a device is totally different I don't see how you can go back from this paradigm. And I also think it is the paradigm that the hardware makers want because this provides lock-in. If you have a massive collection of PS5 games you are much more likely to buy a PS6 than even consider an Xbox. If you recall, Phil has even gone on record saying this is a problem for Xbox because they shit the bed at the exact moment that people were building up digital libraries.



Yea there are definitely eras and now people even build retro PCs targeting those eras, and those eras last about as long as a console generation (or even shorter, like in the 1990s when tech was advancing massively every 1-2 years), but backwards compatibility was always handled on the OS side and can also be resolved by fan patches/DOSBOX.

Add 86BOX and PCEM to the mix.

 

[Mr Hyde]

Bullshit.

It's true. I'm done with consoles if they ain't offering up BC from here on out. I'm tired of these generations resetting everything. I'm also tired of having to hook up multiple machines just to play some games that won't work on the other previous machines. That's bullshit.

 

[Celcius]

It's true. I'm done with consoles if they ain't offering up BC from here on out. I'm tired of these generations resetting everything. I'm also tired of having to hook up multiple machines just to play some games that won't work on the other previous machines. That's bullshit.

One scenario I was also thinking about:
Windows 11 was basically just Windows 10 with a service pack.
What if Windows 12 is very different and as a result breaks compatibility with a lot of 14+ year old games?

 

[StereoVsn]

On PC of course there aren't any "generations", but on consoles we've recently gotten used to backwards compatibility.

The PS5 is backwards compatible with the PS4. We expect that the PS6 will be backwards compatible with PS5 and PS4.
The Xbox Series consoles are backwards compatible with the Xbox One consoles. We expect that the next Xbox will continue the backwards compatibility.
The Switch wasn't backwards compatible but we're all expecting Nintendo's next console to be backwards compatible with the Switch.

Do you think we've reached a point in the industry where any of the major 3 can ever afford to break backwards compatibility for a new system? Or do we now expect that the console game purchases we make today will always be available to download and play on future consoles as well?

For MS, not quite, because currently on XSX you can have BC using disks for OG Xbox and 360 games some of which are not available on the store. This will go away once they go all digital.

For Nintendo - who the f knows. They could switch to different cartridge format for Switch 2 and only carry over BC for digital as an example.

For Sony - likely to continue with PS6. Beyond that who knows.

 

[Mephisto40]

I'll be surprised if the PS6 plays PS4 games tbh, I honestly wouldn't bet on it

 

[Badlucktroll]

Can’t they come up with a ps3 solution? lots of games i would buy again. However, MGS4 likely coming in MGS col. vol. 2 will take the edge off not having ps3 compatibility, but who knows what chinese company konami hired to get it dirtely off ps3. my bet is its going to be the rumored cancelled xbox 360 port running on an emulator, with worse performance and buggier than the native ps3 ver.

 

[Mr Hyde]

One scenario I was also thinking about:
Windows 11 was basically just Windows 10 with a service pack.
What if Windows 12 is very different and as a result breaks compatibility with a lot of 14+ year old games?

If that happens, I guess we're all condemned to eternal pain and agony.

 

[Shake Your Rump]

I'll be surprised if the PS6 plays PS4 games tbh, I honestly wouldn't bet on it

Agreed. Sony (and Cerny) seem very committed to the concept of true hardware compatibility. If the hardware deviates too much, they may drop it.

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

Digital backwards compatibility will be the norm (either downloaded or streamed) but physical BC is already on the way out for MS (their next refresh has no physical drive).

It will be interesting to see what Nintendo does as well. Maybe a cart slot for switch BC but all “new switch” games will be digital?

 

[Bry0]

In the age of digital purchasing BC should be standard. If consoles can’t do that it hurts the value proposition a lot imo. I understand more casual gamers may not care but for me it matters a lot.

 

[adamsapple]

In the age of digital purchasing BC should be standard. If consoles can’t do that it hurts the value proposition a lot imo. I understand more casual gamers may not care but for me it matters a lot.

PS and Xbox are probably going to continue to do it, since it doesn't look like they'll be changing from their current structures.

Nintendo's approach will be the litmus test.

 

[StereoVsn]

I'll be surprised if the PS6 plays PS4 games tbh, I honestly wouldn't bet on it

As long as Sony sticks to AMD x86 architecture there is no reason to drop that support. Keeping it incentivizes their customers to stick to digital library on their console. Basically increase the stickiness.

 

[Mephisto40]

As long as Sony sticks to AMD x86 architecture there is no reason to drop that support. Keeping it incentivizes their customers to stick to digital library on their console. Basically increase the stickiness.

PS4 support will most likely be moved to the cloud