Support NeoGAF

[buddha0991]

I wish i had played Ninja Gaiden Sigma so I could legit say they're the best action team in the business, but iirc, they consistently create incredibly high-quality videogames that often have extremely rad aesthetics.

Sigma is worse than Black tho. Oh and their mechanics are VERY solid and great, but their games are mostly super short, Bayonetta withstanding. I still maintain that DMC3 (even though my favorite DMC is 1, which is my favorite game of all time) and Ninja Gaiden Black are better gameplay wise, even though Bayonetta is a great game.

 

[Sophia]

I wish i had played Ninja Gaiden Sigma so I could legit say they're the best action team in the business, but iirc, they consistently create incredibly high-quality videogames that often have extremely rad aesthetics.

Say what you want to, but Bayonetta, Vanquish, and Metal Gear Rising are all very sound games mechanically. That is major kudo points for me, seeing as so many developers fail in that aspect.

It's actually the same reason why I like the modern Atlus games so much, come to think of it...

 

[Jintor]

Sigma is worse than Black tho. Oh and their mechanics are VERY solid and great, but their games are mostly super short, Bayonetta withstanding. I still maintain that DMC3 (even though my favorite DMC is 1, which is my favorite game of all time) and Ninja Gaiden Black are better gameplay wise, even though Bayonetta is a great game.

They're probably the only games I've ever played though where going up in difficulty level is both intended game design and an actual fair challenge. Bayonetta for instance is a game you haven't even really finished until you've played through on Very Hard imho, which you can't unlock without playing Normal and Hard first.

But yeah, I guess I gotta play Black and the whole DMC franchise first - gotta pick up a DMC HD collection at some point and plug my PS3 into one of my PC monitors.

 

[Squire]

Say what you want to, but Bayonetta, Vanquish, and Metal Gear Rising are all very sound games mechanically. That is major kudo points for me, seeing as so many developers fail in that aspect.

It's actually the same reason why I like the modern Atlus games so much, come to think of it...

This and your last post are spot on.

It's really the mechanical excellence that makes PG a name. Judged purely on that regard, Bayonetta and Vanquish are probably the best action games of the generation.

Length does not determine quality in any way, shape, or form.

And yeah, at this point Atlus system design is clean.

 

[buddha0991]

They're probably the only games I've ever played though where going up in difficulty level is both intended game design and an actual fair challenge. Bayonetta for instance is a game you haven't even really finished until you've played through on Very Hard imho, which you can't unlock without playing Normal and Hard first.

But yeah, I guess I gotta play Black and the whole DMC franchise first - gotta pick up a DMC HD collection at some point and plug my PS3 into one of my PC monitors.

They are all quality games. (You can skip DMC2 though, I will say I 100%'d that game 3 times and not bring that up again ) People like DMC3 more due to the combat, but I like 1 more due to the exploration and the enemy ai. 1 will be dated though, because the camera is terrible. The DMC series is the same way regarding difficulty.

 

[Jintor]

Imagine if they had more time in the oven with Rising. It's incredible that game is as good as it is, problems and all, given they apparently had to basically redesign it in like a year.

 

[buddha0991]

Oh and, while DMC1's combat may pale compared to any of those other games, keep in mind that DMC1 basically invented this genre!

 

[Kazzy]

I can't believe P mag still hasn't leaked. Come on, Japan. :'(

I could perhaps buy it, if need be.

 

[Squire]

I really wish they'd make another shooter. Even though Mikami left.

I'm actually not good at character action games, but TPS is mah shit.

I could perhaps buy it, if need be.

Oh, that would certainly be nice of you. I wouldn't ask you do that though. It would be much appreciated if you could flip through a copy and see if there's anything new.

 

[Jintor]

It was discussed briefly on the cast, but mechanics progression in the modern Persona era goes P3 --> P3FES --> P4 ---> P3P ---> P4G, right?

 

[Squire]

It was discussed briefly on the cast, but mechanics progression in the modern Persona era goes P3 --> P3FES --> P4 ---> P3P ---> P4G, right?

Yep. It's a really clear progression.

 

[Kazzy]

It was discussed briefly on the cast, but mechanics progression in the modern Persona era goes P3 --> P3FES --> P4 ---> P3P ---> P4G, right?

From a purely technical perspective, yes. Though a lot of that hinges on how much you actually like the various iterations. For as nice as some of the P3P and P4G 'improvements' actually are, they are obstensibly layered over a pre-existing game, which really fudges the difficulty.

I appreciate it as a returning player, though I'm not quite sure what kind of experience that equates to for a newcomer. I would wager that if they were unsure of how the various tweaks actually function, it could be really detrimental to their overall experience.

I really can't imagine any of these games on the easy settings would be any kind of fun, but perhaps that's just me.

 

[Dantis]

I want to make two notes about Platinum Games:

- "Overrated" is a term for you not knowing how to articulate what you don't like about something but still disagreeing about a vocal/majority opinion

- Dantis i swear you are the anti-jintor

NOTES ON YOUR NOTES:

- This is nonsense. NONSENSE, JINTOR. It's a pretty blanket term and it's very non specific, but it absolutely has a clearly defined meaning. I feel like the praise lavished upon Platinum games is not reflected in the games themselves when I play them (And I've played all of them except Infinite Space and W101). It's that simple. See? Overrated.

- I actually think you're more like me than anyone else in the thread, so HAVE SUMMA THAT, MATE.

 

[Jintor]

Overrated is one of the most overrated terms used on neogaf forum posts

 

[Squire]

- I actually think you're more like me than anyone else in the thread, so HAVE SUMMA THAT, MATE.

He's not your mate, bloke!

 

[buddha0991]

From a purely technical perspective, yes. Though a lot of that hinges on how much you actually like the various iterations. For as nice as some of the P3P and P4G 'improvements' actually are, they are obstensibly layered over a pre-existing game, which really fudges the difficulty.

I appreciate it as a returning player, though I'm not quite sure what kind of experience that equates to for a newcomer. I would wager that if they were unsure of how the various tweaks actually function, it could be really detrimental to their overall experience.

I really can't imagine any of these games on the easy settings would be any kind of fun, but perhaps that's just me.

Agreed. Probably why I played P3P and P4G on Maniac and Very Hard.

 

[Kazzy]

Agreed. Probably why I played P3P and P4G on Maniac and Very Hard.

Which is kind of the inverse of that problem, because it isn't really hard, and a lot of the difficulty feels artificial with how the compendium pricing scales. That made my perfect S-link playthrough of P3P absolutely torturous during the opening months!

 

[Jintor]

I think i've said this before, but I don't really enjoy combat systems in JRPGs so much as I enjoy just breaking them in half (which is why FFVIII is pretty fun!)...

but that said, I hope to one day find one that I like

 

[buddha0991]

Which is kind of the inverse of that problem, because it isn't really hard, and a lot of the difficulty feels artificial with how the compendium pricing scales. That made my perfect S-link playthrough of P3P absolutely torturous during the opening months!

also agreed

 

[Squire]

I think i've said this before, but I don't really enjoy combat systems in JRPGs so much as I enjoy just breaking them in half (which is why FFVIII is pretty fun!)...

but that said, I hope to one day find one that I like

FFX's my favorite. Great midpoint between your typical ATB derivative system and one from an SRPG.

I've said before and maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but I think it's a balancing issue. Because they are improving the mechanics while laying them onto an old game, as Kazzy says.

If you took P4G's combat and designed a game around it to start, it'd be great and very challenging, I'm sure. I think they didn't do that work for Golden simply because that wasn't really the draw for that project. I think most people are fine with (if not pleased with) the games difficulty.

 

[Dantis]

I like One More and Press Turn, though Press Turn is also sometimes frustrating.

FFX's combat is also fine, if a bit slooooooow.

 

[buddha0991]

I like One More and Press Turn, though Press Turn is also sometimes frustrating.

FFX's combat is also fine, if a bit slooooooow.

Press Turn > One More, but Press Turn wouldn't work in the current Persona set up.

 

[Squire]

I like One More and Press Turn, though Press Turn is also sometimes frustrating.

FFX's combat is also fine, if a bit slooooooow.

Haha, you think so? I dunno, I like that it doesn't rush you. I feel like it telling you to take your time to think and, once you've got the necessary abilities, try to stack as many hits into one turn as possible, it actually emphasizes speed.

 

[Sophia]

I've said this before, but Very Hard in P4G doesn't actually make the game any harder. It's thoughtless, lazy, and almost kind of insulting. All it does is reduce the EXP and Money rewards by 60%

What the setting should have done is brought the bosses they nerfed in difficulty back up to their original design. Actually, y'know, made the game harder instead of just taking longer to achieve the same results

- This is nonsense. NONSENSE, JINTOR. It's a pretty blanket term and it's very non specific, but it absolutely has a clearly defined meaning. I feel like the praise lavished upon Platinum games is not reflected in the games themselves when I play them (And I've played all of them except Infinite Space and W101). It's that simple. See? Overrated.

This is not what articulate means. Put some merit to your opinion and describe why you feel the praise is not reflected in the games themselves.

 

[Lollipop Dave]

I've said this before, but Very Hard in P4G doesn't actually make the game any harder. It's thoughtless, lazy, and almost kind of insulting. All it does is reduce the EXP and Money rewards by 60%

What the setting should have done is brought the bosses they nerfed in difficulty back up to their original design. Actually, y'know, made the game harder instead of just taking longer to achieve the same results



This is not what articulate means.

I think the Tales Of series deals with dthis quite well. The enemies are harder and you get a x+ bonus to your exp. You actually feel rewarded for challenging a higher difficulty.

 

[Sophia]

I think the Tales Of series deals with dthis quite well. The enemies are harder and you get a x+ bonus to your exp. You actually feel rewarded for challenging a higher difficulty.

Yeah, something like that is nice. Tales has the advantage of actually having AI to improve, which works in its favor too.

 

[Dantis]

This is not what articulate means.

Not to get into the semantics of the English language, but what I said makes sense.

He said that overrated is a term used when they can't articulate what they mean (The implication being that they use a vague term which is ultimately meaningless instead), and I said that when I used overrated, I meant exactly what it sounds like, despite its vagueness.

 

[fertygo]

Modern Persona difficulty on harder level are fine on early-mid point, its could very challenging and exciting, its the mid-end point where you got all the good nerf its starting to got very loose..

If just they manage to keep it for the whole game, its perfect for me.

Also the enemy should have more than NES level AI, they should punishing your weakness and not attacking other target if they knock you.

 

[Jintor]

All you really mean is that people like it more than you do, which is a point so useless it may as well have not been said

 

[Sophia]

Not to get into the semantics of the English language, but what I said makes sense.

He said that overrated is a term used when they can't articulate what they mean (The implication being that they use a vague term which is ultimately meaningless instead), and I said that when I used overrated, I meant exactly what it sounds like, despite its vagueness.

That is the effectively the same thing. You are using the term "exactly" as what it sounds like, because you are unable to articulate a better worded opinion about what you feel is overrated. Your opinion is vague, ultimately meaningless, without element of character, and not healthy to good conversation.

It'd be like if I said "Atlus is one of the most overrated developers, in my opinion." It doesn't really mean anything. As off topic as this may be, try telling us why you feel Platinum Games is overrated as a developer.

All you really mean is that people like it more than you do, which is a point so useless it may as well have not been said

Not how I'd word it, but that is essentially on the same train of thought.

 

[Dantis]

All you really mean is that people like it more than you do, which is a point so useless it may as well have not been said

Yup.

I'm fine with people thinking I'm lazy, but God forbid anybody thinks I'm stupid.

 

[Jintor]

ur a but

 

[Soriku]

wow I feel like a schmuck for not knowing this but what version of Burn My Dread was that at the second half of the video?

It was the new opening song for P3 FES. Don't know what the official name is.

 

[fertygo]

When fortune telling effect in IS wear off? its ruining my negotiation, sheesh..

 

[Jintor]

It was the new opening song for P3 FES. Don't know what the official name is.

It's just called P3 FES irrc

 

[Venfayth]

I used to think that debating about the way a word is used is pointless because it should be easy to understand what people mean when they're using general ideas, but my mind has been changed thanks to a specific person here.

More meaningful debate can be had if people use terminology that has clear and specific meanings. Vague and general statements diminish meaning by nature. They can still have their uses, but too often they're used by people to take 'safe' stances that can't really be wrong.

In other words, stop being lazy or cowardly when you debate and have an actual thought.

 

[Viola of the Abyss]

Just started Persona 2 Eternal Punishment!

The Openings are wonderful! I liked both even more than the Innocent Sin ones.
I played for just a couple of minutes and the game seems definitely familiar.

Kanji are freaking unreadable sometimes >_> Damn PSP lowres screen.

Anyway, an important thing:
Play Innocent Sin before this!!! Seriously! The intro had quite the impact on me because of it, if you don't play them in order you're missing out.

Anyway, here I go! Deadline is 22nd December, you know what to do if I don't finish it by then.
That is... feed me (pineapple) pizza

 

[ScraftyDevil]

This is awesome. Definitely going to use this when we make our grand comeback sometime in the near future!

 

[buddha0991]

Just started Persona 2 Eternal Punishment!

The Openings are wonderful! I liked both even more than the Innocent Sin ones.
I played for just a couple of minutes and the game seems definitely familiar.

Kanji are freaking unreadable sometimes >_> Damn PSP lowres screen.

Anyway, an important thing:
Play Innocent Sin before this!!! Seriously! The intro had quite the impact on me because of it, if you don't play them in order you're missing out.

Anyway, here I go! Deadline is 22nd December, you know what to do if I don't finish it by then.
That is... feed me (pineapple) pizza

wait, you are playing the PSP version? Can you read Japanese?

 

[Sophia]

wait, you are playing the PSP version? Can you read Japanese?

He can, yes.

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

Hey, mind if a newcomer like me join this lovely community?

Spoiler

Will you guys accept me?

 

[buddha0991]

Can you do the Tatsuya Scenarios when you can and talk about what goes on in them? Be warned though, when you get a choice of a

Spoiler

man or a woman in some point in the story, pick the man. One of the Tatsuya Scenarios does not unlock if you pick the woman.

 

[Sophia]

Hey, mind if a newcomer like me join this lovely community?

Spoiler

Will you guys accept me?

We accept everyone here. Especially if you like to talk about Persona!

Spoiler

Or do we? I'm not so sure myself....

Welcome!

Spoiler

Don't forget, you're here forever. :|

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

We accept everyone here. Especially if you like to talk about Persona!

Spoiler

Or do we? I'm not so sure myself....

Welcome!

Spoiler

Don't forget, you're here forever. :|

Thanks!

Spoiler

Naoto is my waifu

 

[ScraftyDevil]

Hey, mind if a newcomer like me join this lovely community?

Spoiler

Will you guys accept me?

Welcome! Make yourself at home.

Initiation quiz: Favourite Persona game and Persona character, and why?

 

[Viola of the Abyss]

Can you do the Tatsuya Scenarios when you can and talk about what goes on in them? Be warned though, when you get a choice of a

Spoiler

man or a woman in some point in the story, pick the man. One of the Tatsuya Scenarios does not unlock if you pick the woman.

Hmm, I can read Japanese but I'm not fluent enough to attempt a translation, I'll try anyways.

Warning: Eternal Punishment Spoliers at the links

I thought that those scenarios were translated already though, here: http://pastebin.com/uiqvLAcV
I found that in cj_iwakura's EP Import OT. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=505927

I'm also helping myself with this script guide, in case anyone was interested: http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/257396-persona-2-eternal-punishment/faqs/20058

 

[animaSerah]

What size are Vita wallpapers? I would really love to have that first Teddie Wallpaper and Yu Wallpaper to fit on my Vita. You did great work on all of them though, hot damn! Dat Kanji Brofist!

Luckily, it wasn't that hard to do; I was afraid I'd lose more of the image on the downsize:

Yu Narukami [Vita]
Teddie [Vita]

If people are interested in having the set for Vita as well, I can make that happen, but it'll take a little while to get them all re-sized.

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

Welcome! Make yourself at home.

Initiation quiz: Favourite Persona game and Persona character, and why?

Hmm I'd say as for right now....Persona 4 Golden. First one I've played only playing FES right now.

Favorite character? Naoto. Why? I really like how cute she looks. If that's alright with you guys.

 

[InsaneElite]

That reminds me that Satomi Tadashi said that the new EPP scenario was supposed to "change everything the player knows about fighting Shadows". Was that ever clarified? My only guess is that it's when Tatsuya reflects inward and realizes he can draw on the power of past humans to explain how he can fight.

 

[animaSerah]

You guys like persona? I like persona? Can we be friends?

Hey, mind if a newcomer like me join this lovely community?

Spoiler

Will you guys accept me?

I'm still a newbie myself, but "Welcome!" all the same. Gooch, hope you enjoy FES; Persona 3 is my favorite!