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Persona Community Thread |OT9| SPOILER TAGS OR DIE
- Thread starter Dantis
- Start date
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
True.
I think DR is on the level of Persona though, cause a few of their issues bother me. DR3 will be the high point! (If they go past the immaturity
)Kanji, well the English version, had the VA explicitly told he was gay. And Persona 4 had a pretty good representation of toxic masculinity and how it affected someone like him. I could really relate with him because he was an awesome dude with a great SL to boot. I could also accept some of the offensive stuff with the gay sterotypes because it was meant to be that way, like the boss. But maybe I gave them too much credit. He was a great and complex character.
But this just undermines alot of that. I'm just disappointed.
True.
I think DR is on the level of Persona though, cause a few of their issues bother me. DR3 will be the high point! (If they go past the immaturity
Kanji, well the English version, had the VA explicitly told he was gay. And Persona 4 had a pretty good representation of toxic masculinity and how it affected someone like him. I could really relate with him because he was an awesome dude with a great SL to boot. I could also accept some of the offensive stuff with the gay sterotypes because it was meant to be that way, like the boss. But maybe I gave them too much credit. He was a great and complex character.
But this just undermines alot of that. I'm just disappointed.
Yeah Kanji's awesome. His story made me hopeful for the future of the series, because it felt like they were at least trying to explore the subject matter, even though Kanji's story ultimately took a different direction. It kinda bugged me that the game was like, "Nevermind, he's probably not really gay! He's just insecure about his masculinity!" lol, it felt like such a tease, but it seemed like they were testing the waters.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
Huh.
I always felt in the English version they always meant for him to be gay. So it's way more ambigious/nonexistant on the Japanese version? (Props to the localization team if true)
Maybe I'm just looking at something that isn't there.
The only guy Kanji gets a crush on is Naoto. Naoto is revealed to be a girl. Kanji continues to crush on her. Ergo, the assumption the Japanese devs were likely going for is that Kanji was crushing on Naoto because she was actually a girl anyway.
Persona 4's representation is Kanji's shadow form taking an exaggerated gay stereotype as a joke, and Yosuke's comments which while is because he's the immature one of the group ARE actually supposed to make the player laugh in some form as seen in how gay stereotypes in the series is used.
Japan is rather behind on homosexuality/LGBT related issues and stuff. Although they've made a lot of improvements in the past eight or so years on the issue, there's still work to do.
And due to things like low childbirth and the Lost Decade, the older generation is going to be around and more influential than they are in say... the United States.
It is rather disappointing that we still have some homosexuality jokes in Persona 5. Ah well...
And due to things like low childbirth and the Lost Decade, the older generation is going to be around and more influential than they are in say... the United States.
It is rather disappointing that we still have some homosexuality jokes in Persona 5. Ah well...
A Dead Diehard
Member
In addition, he's creepily interested in where Yukiko bathes in one scene.
Gay, that kid ain't.
No, that was never the intention.
His Shadow always had to do with the possibility of him being gay and how others might view him due to his feminine hobbies. It was never about his actual sexuality, hence the reason why he has an exaggerated, flamboyantly gay stereotype as a Shadow (aka exaggerated fear). It's actually pretty neat, because I imagine a lot of teenage boys have "gay scares." It's just... what happens after that that totally blows. You only need to look at his character after his arc to see that Atlus thinks the idea of him "possibly" being gay is hilarious.
Even disregarding that, he crushes on Naoto pretty hard, for one, and repeatedly has to tell Yosuke and the gang that they don't have to worry, "he's not like that." We all convinced themselves that Kanji was actually gay because it was fresh and relatable. We were only fooling ourselves though.
Yabberwocky
Member
Ha, poor unloved Yusuke and Yuki. Good to know Yuki's co-op is interesting!
Very well put. It's great to know about DR, too, I hadn't realised.
Mediking
Member
Maybe Persona 6 will star a school or university that doesn't have forced school uniforms.... Do you guys think some charm or tradition would be lost if there wasn't forced school attire? Like we would still have a "default" outfit for the MC but it wouldn't be school related.
Funyarinpa
Member
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
Damn y'all are ruining P4 for me. Fucking hell. Knowing the intentions of the developer make feel like garbage. I hope the devs fucking grow up one day. Sigh. Still love my boy Kanji though, fucking wrecks demons with chairs.
Flawed as it may be, I'll still enjoy P5. I just have higher expectations for this mature game. It has to prove itself in the future. Japan can't always live in the past.
P2 Spoilers:
Flawed as it may be, I'll still enjoy P5. I just have higher expectations for this mature game. It has to prove itself in the future. Japan can't always live in the past.
P2 Spoilers:
I remember hearing P2 had a gay romance though. Was one fucked over too or what? I honestly can't remember. All I can recall is the fact that the game had fucking Nazis in it.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
Damn son, P2 does what P4 don't. And that makes me sad.
Also makes me want to replay P2 now.
Also makes me want to replay P2 now.
I've only been going through Shouta's stream archive of the game as he translates and people are already going in on certain problems already? Granted i got 15hours+ to catch up on but things don't seem that dire. I am not really hung up on what Atlus has to say on that subject matter when most anime and manga that go into that are few and far between.
We'll have a better clue what everyone's deal is until the english release, won't really go into high stakes discussion till then personally.
We'll have a better clue what everyone's deal is until the english release, won't really go into high stakes discussion till then personally.
I think Kanji is a high schooler who is struggling with his sexual identity in a society in which anything other than the norm is frowned upon, and even his own group of friends, who ostensibly accept him, are still made uncomfortable by the fact that they cannot clearly define him. In the end, the player isn't given a definitive answer because the character doesn't have a definitive answer himself.
Seems like a pretty realistic and nuanced way to handle a story concerning high schoolers, or people in general really.
Seems like a pretty realistic and nuanced way to handle a story concerning high schoolers, or people in general really.
Agreed.
Yep, that certainly proves it.
Ludger Kresnik
Member
I thought it was pretty damning evidence that no one in the game, including Kanji, ever fully accepts the possibility that he isn't straight as something to be embraced. He also never shows any attraction towards any of the guys apart from Naoto, who wasn't actually a guy. He continues being interested in her after the reveal, while also showing interest in the other girls as well. There's some of his costume lines with the protag, sure, but with how awkward this child is those are way too nonchalant for him to be hitting on him.
Kanji could secretly be bi, sure, but that's never what his character arc was about. It's about society's forced gender roles and people's reactions when you dare go outside them, not sexuality. It does actually bother me when people try to give P4 credit for LGBT representation because not only is it not there, but it was never even their intention to go there in the first place. The possibility of Kanji being gay reflects his worries of what society projects onto him because of his hobbies. It's a very real problem worth exploring, but it's most certainly not the same thing.
Kanji could secretly be bi, sure, but that's never what his character arc was about. It's about society's forced gender roles and people's reactions when you dare go outside them, not sexuality. It does actually bother me when people try to give P4 credit for LGBT representation because not only is it not there, but it was never even their intention to go there in the first place. The possibility of Kanji being gay reflects his worries of what society projects onto him because of his hobbies. It's a very real problem worth exploring, but it's most certainly not the same thing.
Ludger Kresnik
Member
Yu Namba was asked about this once and delivered a non-answer.
I dunno what Yusuke gets up to in the game but my problems aren't with him.
Hashino's stance on this interests me more. He's the one who has the final say on everything.
I'm not disappointed by Yusuke. Everything I've heard about him is great and I'm sure he'll be memorable, but my problem is that P5 reduces LGBT characters once more to the punchline of an infantile joke. I'm referring specifically to [Minor P5 spoilers]
the two gay guys who repeatedly hit on you
I was skim reading, and my impression was that people were disappointed in there not being any gay characters. The part you're talking about is
the two effeminate men in Shinjuku
It's more the reaction of the characters to them, but yeah.
what was the bet?
No, i'm talking about the
blatant gay caricatures who hit on the protagonist and Ryuji at the beach trip, causing the 2 boys to run away.
UGH!
That Futaba removing the towel from her head would be a character point, not a gag.
I would assume that these are the same characters.
Well, Dantis, since you've been playing the game so far wouldn't you know if Futaba revealing her face to others is a big deal by now? I'm assuming she hasn't so far, so wouldn't it overall be a big character point for her to reveal her face now?
Unless you guys are basing this on dialogue, but do you have a good translaton for that scene then?
Unless PK already feels in their heart that they've lost anyway.
Unless you guys are basing this on dialogue, but do you have a good translaton for that scene then?
Unless PK already feels in their heart that they've lost anyway.
they are. Basically when the joke is "they are super gay and are hitting on someone" it isn't good and borderline insulting.
I wonder if Atlas US has enough authority to excise it as much as possible from the Eng translation because I'm sure they know their english-speaking audience and they know what kind of reaction that shit is going to get, especially after the transgender jokes in P3 and the fat jokes/gay everything in P4
There was that dance teacher in P4Dance though. Like, jesus christ.
There was that dance teacher in P4Dance though. Like, jesus christ.
Well, Dantis, since you've been playing the game so far wouldn't you know if Futaba revealing her face to others is a big deal by now? I'm assuming she hasn't so far, so wouldn't it overall be a big character point for her to reveal her face now?
Unless you guys are basing this on dialogue, but do you have a good translaton for that scene then?
Unless PK already feels in their heart that they've lost anyway.
They probably won't which it is in their right to not remove anything. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a few articles about it and if they did remove something then they get the censorship shit thrown at them. It's kind of a lose/lose situation.
Damn son, P2 does what P4 don't. And that makes me sad.
Also makes me want to replay P2 now.
No so spoilerish but
P2 does a lot of things than P4 does, actually Themes, social integration (kinda way with the Contact System, but is most notorious in Batsu) and certain elements like the Shadows Selves.
Themes, social integration (kinda way with the Contact System, but is most notorious in Batsu) and certain elements like the Shadows Selves.Well, Dantis, since you've been playing the game so far wouldn't you know if Futaba revealing her face to others is a big deal by now? I'm assuming she hasn't so far, so wouldn't it overall be a big character point for her to reveal her face now?
Unless you guys are basing this on dialogue, but do you have a good translaton for that scene then?
Unless PK already feels in their heart that they've lost anyway.
I haven't met her yet. She's in the process of being introduced.
Speaking of which, I think you guys will love her introduction. She's a fucking dork.
Ah, so I guess the rumors
of her being the coffee shop owner's daughter are bunk then?
St-still! The bet is anyone's game! There may still be a character defining moment amidst beach episode anime clichés.
A lot of the cries of censorships was on the backs of "They should keep my anime titties in"... I wonder if the same steam would be gathered for "They should keep the jokes that insult LGBT people in"
Like... I'm sure the cross-section of supporters is similar, but probably the former is easier to support than the latter
Still never really got that bet, since it's likely to be a character point and a gag.
Extremely unfortunate about those NPC portrayals I've been hearing about. I hope it's not nearly as bad as I've heard, but it's disheartening that it's even there. Kanji's dungeon was eyebrow raising, but P4D really fucked up in that respect. Not good to see this repeated.
I was hoping that, even if there wasn't any same-sex relationships, they'd at least throw the issue a bone through the side-missions. It's a perfect setup for that, but as of yet it doesn't seem to be the case.
Extremely unfortunate about those NPC portrayals I've been hearing about. I hope it's not nearly as bad as I've heard, but it's disheartening that it's even there. Kanji's dungeon was eyebrow raising, but P4D really fucked up in that respect. Not good to see this repeated.
I was hoping that, even if there wasn't any same-sex relationships, they'd at least throw the issue a bone through the side-missions. It's a perfect setup for that, but as of yet it doesn't seem to be the case.
I sincerely hope they keep everything intact as it is in the original even if it'll cause significant backlash. Atlus Japan needs to hear this kind of criticism more than Persona needs its brand "protected" (and the game will do fine regardless of that anyway). Hopefully the complaints will reach them.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
P4D's not that bad if it isnt for the fact thats all they ever do.
Also Kanji's dungeon is great mainly because it presents a very different issue. The issue that guys cant be feminine or enjoy anything remotely girly without being immediately assumed gay. I dont really care for kanji, but I appreciate his character in that way. Hes just presenting the issue of being a straight guy in a world that has determined how straight guys should be.
If he was gay I don't think his story would be anywhere near as interesting, since his interests are more stereotypical gay. If they wouldve made him gay I wouldve preferred if they left the knitting and fashion hobbies off.
Funyarinpa
Member
What's this about transgender jokes in P3? Don't recall that one.