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[RetroMG]

UNVOTE: Style

VOTE: FluxWaveZ

Just a note for our newer (and older) players. You don't have to say who you're unvoting, and if you're voting for someone new, you don't have to unvote at all - Your new vote cancels out the old vote.

It doesn't hurt anything to do it this way, but I thought I might make your lives a little easier.

Carry on, players.

 

[Style]

Things just got real.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

Fran definitely has an aggressive play style so far. I can't tell if he's a Persona user or a Shadow, but it's a bold play on his part.

I wouldn't necessarily call it bold. It's just different than how he played town last time.

I'm off to work. I'll check in when I can.

 

[Natiko]

Lots of aggression lately. Going to take some time to think it over and re-read some posts. I'd be surprised if at least one of the people suddenly being aggressive aren't scum. Just not sure which currently.

 

[exmachina64]

Things just got real.

What are your thoughts currently?

I wouldn't necessarily call it bold. It's just different than how he played town last time.

I'm off to work. I'll check in when I can.

It was something I mentally noted yesterday. I was going to hold off commenting on Fran's behavior until Day 2, but since you mentioned it, I felt it was time to chime in.

 

[flatearthpandas]

Anyway, my general reads for now. They're going to be vague but i can go deeper into things at request

Town:
Flux: posts have been pretty thoughtful but mostly i think he's reacted to the various things that have come up in a townier way than others have.
11037: seems to be following along and contributing decently. This is my most gut town but I'm liking him.
Exmachina: talked about this earlier but i don't parse his level of experience with a newbie scum. I've got more to say here but it's not the time.
Exodu5... kind of: like flux, he's reacted to certain things in better ways than other players. But i get a sort of strange feeling from other things. Leaning town still though.

Scum:
Star: not really to do with the pregame thing, mostly just the posts since seem pretty empty.
Franc: jumpy, defensive. But i get it, sometimes i feel pretty defensive too. But his change in manner kind of struck me.
Zipped: inactive. But what he's done with his time actually could amount to trying to fish some pr acknowledgment from style though and it seemed strange.

Yeah, guess that's what I've got. I could toss a few more people into the scum pile to balance the list out but post review isn't screaming at me. Watching the dramas of PK and Style right now.

 

[11037]

So you're implying Style has a power role?

I doubt PK Gaming was implying this because he voted for him.

 

[PK Gaming]

So what do you find scummy about Flux, PK? If you want to put some pressure on him, you need to convince the rest of us to vote for him as well.

I don't think he's scummy, but like Sorian pointed out earlier in the thread, it's a good idea to always keep a vote on someone. And there's no way i'm going to pass up on keeping a vote on the guy who's been locked onto me the entire time. Maybe I can even get something out of it.

If that's the extent of your "pressure," PK, let me say that it's a disappointment.

Right. Is that why you stated the following?

I didn't know words like "think" and "maybe" were supposed to connote "convinced." In fact, I'm pretty sure they're not. You were uncertain, like anyone else who should be uncertain of everyone else's alignment. And then that uncertainty mysteriously turned into certainty. How? Why? Absolutely no one here could be "certain" that she isn't a Shadow. Even YOU shouldn't be certain she's a Shadow. So why are you talking like the both of you are a team and that you're protecting her when, in reality, she could very well be your enemy?

I realize now that I should have chosen my words more carefully, but I only threw in a "think" to make to sentence flow better. And the "maybe" was a reference to last week's election results, since we all should have all come to the painful conclusion that there's no such thing as a done deal. So even if I myself am certain about something, that doesn't mean i'm right.

To reiterate, I am not on StarSketch's side or anything. But I don't think she's scum, and she doesn't strike me as someone bold enough to directly "snicker" about getting the scum role. But I could be wrong. Me being convinced that she's not scum does not preclude her from actually being one. And it's not a comment I was willing to die for, either.

Going after the "easy vote" is the opposite of a good look, just so you know. Scum like "easy votes" because it gives them the illusion that they're doing something substantial and contributing to the town, when they're just trying to blend in with the herd and ensure that no one specifically points the finger at them when the lynch flips Town. And here you are openly stating that the reason you voted for Style was because they were the easy vote.

Newflash, new player. How I am supposed to know about that? I'm literally playing everything by ear, the mistakes I've made thus far should attest to that.

Besides that, I don't understand your last point. It's irrelevant? I'll see soon? You're talking like you have more concrete information than everyone else, or at least than I do. How is that possible when Town DOESN'T have any concrete information to go on? The only group that would are the Shadows. Or some power role that somehow got info on Night 0.

Calm down. I was saying my vote for Style is now irrelevant, because (drumroll) I was changing it to you. That was just my attempt at build drama for the vote switch, not a "sign of things to come." I really, really wanted to stick it you.

More excuses. Neat. All of this matters not to me or your activity. There is a very distinct difference in tone between your pre-game posts and your post-game posts, where that really isn't the case with others. That's why it's being brought up. It's not simply about the number of posts, it's about your approach to them.

Oh spare me, dude. Real life obligations are not excuses. Prioritizing my free time on things I'm incredibly passionate about is not an excuse. And the distinct difference in tone comes literally comes down to the fact that the game started. Unless you were seriously expecting me to post more humorous comics and images??

I do understand that you'd want to stand back and see things play out to avoid yourself getting lynched, though. A Shadow would definitely want to avoid that situation at all costs.

And now you're trying to somehow lead a mob against me with absolutely zero reason other than your empty arguments that somehow incriminate me... for some reason?

You'll have to bring better things to the table, PK, or I swear I'll see you lynched by the end of this day phase.

I'm not trying to lead some charge against you but seeing you finally squirm is almost making up for today's Persona 5 delay.

So what do you find scummy about Flux, PK? If you want to put some pressure on him, you need to convince the rest of us to vote for him as well.

So you're implying Style has a power role?

Nope. I said that because I was changing my vote from Style to Flux.

 

[Style]

What are your thoughts currently?



It was something I mentally noted yesterday. I was going to hold off commenting on Fran's behavior until Day 2, but since you mentioned it, I felt it was time to chime in.

I want to see where this is going. Flux has been digging a lot in Sketch's comment. If she's a power role trying to pry that out of her smells like a scum tell. On the other hand PK jumping on my hate train was super shady as it has been stated a lot already. Other than those two putting on a spectacle and Rynam being MIA then coming back to say he didn't bail on the game, my readings have mostly stayed the same. I'm going to continue watching where this feud is going.

 

[Style]

*reads PK's next post*

*insert yet another popcorn gif, I couldn't chose one from my collection*

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Newflash, new player. How I am supposed to know about that? I'm literally playing everything by ear, the mistakes I've made thus far should attest to that.

The fact that you're a new player isn't an excuse. Hell, the fact that you're a new player actually goes against you here because it means you wouldn't know what typically shouldn't be done, regardless of your alignment, which means that you'd fall for the common traps and tells more easily without an ulterior motive behind them. Of course, the argument could be made that your Shadow buddies would guide you the right way, but they can't cover every single post each other will be making. Which is where the mistakes happen.

Calm down. I was saying my vote for Style is now irrelevant, because (drumroll) I was changing it to you. That was just my attempt at build drama for the vote switch, not a "sign of things to come." I really, really wanted to stick it you.

I'm totally calm; after all, the heat isn't on me: it's on you. You should always be perfectly clear in the posts you make because if you aren't, naturally people will look into things that may or may not be there or search for hidden messages. It's like post #354 that I made and which Style subsequently responded to. Probably should have made what I meant by it clear from the get-go, though it did make for an interesting reply.

Oh spare me, dude. Real life obligations are not excuses. Prioritizing my free time on things I'm incredibly passionate about is not an excuse. And the distinct difference in tone comes literally comes down to the fact that the game started. Unless you were seriously expecting me to post more humorous comics and images??

Sure, why not? Isn't that what you're doing right now?

I'm not trying to lead some charge against you but seeing you finally squirm is almost making up for today's Persona 5 delay.

"Squirm." That's a good one. So I'm supposed to be scared that the guy who managed to get 3 votes throughout D1 and who many are side-eyeing as suspicious has retaliated like a typical mafia under scrutiny, placing the only vote I have yet to receive with zero logical reason or argument behind him other than what is essentially an OMGUS.

I'm squirming, alright.

At least this response was better at alleviating suspicious elements of yours than the last one, so there's that. You're saying that I've been locked onto you the entire time, when the very first time I mentioned you at all was in post #337. 260 posts after the game first started. Victim complex?

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I want to see where this is going. Flux has been digging a lot in Sketch's comment. If she's a power role trying to pry that out of her smells like a scum tell.

Point to where I've been "digging a lot in Sketch's comment." I dropped the issue completely after Sorian's post #85 because he's right: it's currently uninteresting and won't do any good to focus on.

And now you're trying to revise history like I've been trying to find out some hidden meaning behind StarSketch's pre-game comment the whole time.

To me, what you're saying here sounds like a Neutral who is okay regardless of what happens as long as it doesn't implicate you, but also trying to throw shade at opposing sides to see them at their throats. Less focus on you that way.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Actually, I'm really not liking any of your comments, Style. None of them. I've said this before, and I've explained why multiple times. Don't act like you're above getting completely murdered this day phase.

Vote: Style

Hey, PK. Mind changing your vote to Style, too?

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

*reads PK's next post*

*insert yet another popcorn gif, I couldn't chose one from my collection*

I have yet to see you post anything productive, so here is a question for you. What do you think of Sorian?

 

[Style]

I have yet to see you post anything productive, so here is a question for you. What do you think of Sorian?

I already said what I thought about him here. And it hasn't really changed much since then.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

So flux were in the first day why did you already ask Rynam to be open to sacrificing himself, don't you think that's a little to early for that?

 

[Style]

Actually, I'm really not liking any of your comments, Style. None of them. I've said this before, and I've explained why multiple times. Don't act like you're above getting completely murdered this day phase.

Vote: Style

Hey, PK. Mind changing your vote to Style, too?

This is a hilarious heel turn from you, Flux. You're asking the guy you swore to get lynched today to stack votes with you. This is really hilarious.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

So flux were in the first day why did you already ask Rynam to be open to sacrificing himself, don't you think that's a little to early for that?

I didn't ask him to be open to sacrificing himself. I said if he continues to act the way he is, he'd be a good sacrifice for us. I said it very plainly in post #438.

But what do you mean "too early for that"? We're D1. It's the perfect time for that.

 

[Style]

It's 7 AM in Europe and I'm running on little to zero sleep, sorry if my posts the last ~7 hours are less substantial than usual.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

This is a hilarious heel turn from you, Flux. You're asking the guy you swore to get lynched today to stack votes with you. This is really hilarious.

Oh, is that what I said? I thought I told PK that if he didn't actually bring good arguments or contributions to the table, I swore to get him lynched by the end of the day phase? Don't think for a second that I'm not suspicious of him more than I am of most others right now, but I also find you more... unpleasant, in the context of our goals?

His last reply, while still very lacking, was at least better than a lot of what he had posted before, yet you continue to act like an unperturbed, untouchable observer. I'd actually find it more fun right now to see you lynched, so it'd be cool if PK cooperated for that pressure currently.

 

[Style]

Oh, is that what I said? I thought I told PK that if he didn't actually bring good arguments or contributions to the table, I swore to get him lynched by the end of the day phase? Don't think for a second that I'm not suspicious of him more than I am of most others right now, but I also find you more... unpleasant, in the context of our goals?

His last reply, while still very lacking, was at least better than a lot of what he had posted before, yet you continue to act like an unperturbed, untouchable observer. I'd actually find it more fun right now to see you lynched, so it'd be cool if PK cooperated for that pressure currently.

I'm having fun in a game, woe is me. Sorry if I tilted you with my fun.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

I didn't ask him to be open to sacrificing himself. I said if he continues to act the way he is, he'd be a good sacrifice for us. I said it very plainly in post #438.

But what do you mean "too early for that"? We're D1. It's the perfect time for that.

So its a standard thing in the game to sacrifice 1 of the more silent/redundant players for the greater good of the town on D1?

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I'm having fun in a game, woe is me. Sorry if I tilted you with my fun.

Oh, I'm okay with fun. That's different, though, then the type watching from the sidelines, uncaring for what actually happens on either side of a war because they have no reason to care. I'm very familiar with this, going from my experience in Heist and the role one of this game's runners got in it.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

So its a standard thing in the game to sacrifice 1 of the more silent/redundant players for the greater good of the town on D1?

Nope. But think about it: if we got to the end of D1 and there was a general uncertainty about who should be lynched, which outcome is better:

1. No lynch?
2. Lynch a potential power role?
3. Lynch a redundant player?

#1 is typically not the way to go because it provides us with no additional information for that day phase, and it removes a chance at us potentially lynching a Shadow.

#2 is bad news, always. Yet, it tends to happen. A lot.

#3 is obviously the way to go. The best case scenario is obviously lynching an enemy. But, barring that, lynching a player who contributed nothing or even went against Town goals is a better outcome than lynching a player who contributes and acts for the greater good. The part that is especially important, however, is that the player isn't guaranteed to be Town: a player who is acting in that redundant way very well has the chance to be an enemy. Which is what makes this player a good lynch target.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Nope. But think about it: if we got to the end of D1 and there was a general uncertainty about who should be lynched, which outcome is better:

1. No lynch?
2. Lynch a potential power role?
3. Lynch a redundant player?

#1 is typically not the way to go because it provides us with no additional information for that day phase, and it removes a chance at us potentially lynching a Shadow.

#2 is bad news, always. Yet, it tends to happen. A lot.

#3 is obviously the way to go. The best case scenario is obviously lynching an enemy. But, barring that, lynching a player who contributed nothing or even went against Town goals is a better outcome than lynching a player who contributes and acts for the greater good. The part that is especially important, however, is that the player isn't guaranteed to be Town: a player who is acting in that redundant way very well has the chance to be an enemy. Which is what makes this player a good lynch target.

That sounds logical. Thank you for explaining the reasoning behind the player sacrifice.

 

[Style]

Oh, I'm okay with fun. That's different, though, then the type watching from the sidelines, uncaring for what actually happens on either side of a war because they have no reason to care. I'm very familiar with this, going from my experience in Heist and the role one of this game's runners got in it.

Have you stopped for a moment to think that I don't actually think I'm untouchable, but I'm uncaring because everyone already wanted my head from page 2 onwards?

Not many posts ago you were talking about making a "sacrificial vote" and being perfectly fine with lynching a villager. You call me "uncaring for what actually happens on either side of a war", but you are the one surprisingly alright with losing someone on your side on day 1. Perfect logic.

And now you are back to running a crusade on me just because I loosened up and had some fun watching you and PK have at each other. I know you both pretty well from PersonaGAF so it was entertaining. Get over it.

I'm not even going to bother throwing an OMGUS vote on you, because honestly I think you are a power role. And if you are you should probably get the hint and catch on to why I think that and let it die. I really, really didn't want bring it up, but congratulations on twisting my hand.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Have you stopped for a moment to think that I don't actually think I'm untouchable, but I'm uncaring because everyone already wanted my head from page 2 onwards?

Not many posts ago you were talking about making a "sacrificial vote" and being perfectly fine with lynching a villager. You call me "uncaring for what actually happens on either side of a war", but you are the one surprisingly alright with losing someone on your side on day 1. Perfect logic.

And now you are back to running a crusade on me just because I loosened up and had some fun watching you and PK have at each other. I know you both pretty well from PersonaGAF so it was entertaining. Get over it.

I'm not even going to bother throwing an OMGUS vote on you, because honestly I think you are a power role. And if you are you should probably get the hint and catch on to why I think that and let it die. I really, really didn't want bring it up, but congratulations on twisting my hand.

We are most likely going to lose someone anyway and i see the logic behind voting for some one hiding in the shadows pun intended.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Not many posts ago you were talking about making a "sacrificial vote" and being perfectly fine with lynching a villager. You call me "uncaring for what actually happens on either side of a war", but you are the one surprisingly alright with losing someone on your side on day 1. Perfect logic.

How many times do I have to explain this. How do you know that Rynam is Town? How would I know that Rynam is Town? We DON'T. This is why "sacrificial" basically means "last resort" in this context, for someone who would be a good lynch target due to their activity. They could turn out to be a Shadow. If they are not a Shadow, it wouldn't be a great loss for Town, either. This is what that means, for the third time. Especially given the fact that, most likely, we'll unfortunately be lynching a Persona user at the end of the day just because of how many we are compared to Shadows.

Does that not make sense?

And now you are back to running a crusade on me just because I loosened up and had some fun watching you and PK have at each other. I know you both pretty well from PersonaGAF so it was entertaining. Get over it.

You know what'd be more fun? Having two PersonaGAF regulars team up after a debate to take down someone who was eating popcorn while watching our fight like this was a shounen battle.

Have you stopped for a moment to think that I don't actually think I'm untouchable, but I'm uncaring because everyone already wanted my head from page 2 onwards?

I have thought about this, though, and honestly, it's likely why you can be so nonchalant about basically everything where you're not the focus at this point. I certainly know how that is.

But it's also because I know how that is that the behavior is so dangerous.

I'm not even going to bother throwing an OMGUS vote on you, because honestly I think you are a power role. And if you are you should probably get the hint and catch on to why I think that and let it die. I really, really didn't want bring it up, but congratulations on twisting my hand.

What. No, please tell me in detail: what makes you think I have a power role?

 

[Sophia]

Effective immediately, Rynam has been replaced by Ty4on.

 

[Style]

You know what'd be more fun? Having two PersonaGAF regulars team up after a debate to take down someone who was eating popcorn while watching our fight like this was a shounen battle.

Do you just want me gone because I enjoyed some pop corn now, Flux.

What. No, please tell me in detail: what makes you think I have a power role?

Either you get it or you don't, I'm not going to elaborate on it.

 

[exmachina64]

Welcome, Ty4on.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

So we meet again.

Either you get it or you don't, I'm not going to elaborate on it.

I don't get it, but I need you to explain to me exactly why you think I'm a power role. This isn't something I'm just going to let you drop.

 

[Style]

Welcome to the game, Ty4on!

So we meet again.



I don't get it, but I need you to explain to me exactly why you think I'm a power role. This isn't something I'm just going to let you drop.

Too bad, because I'm dropping it for now.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Too bad, because I'm dropping it for now.

This is why I want to see you lynched.

 

[flatearthpandas]

Vote: Style

Yeah, let's see some receipts. You've painted a target. Why?

 

[Style]

Vote: Style

Yeah, let's see some receipts. You've painted a target. Why?

Which target are you referring to.

 

[Verelios]

I'm not even going to bother throwing an OMGUS vote on you, because honestly I think you are a power role. And if you are you should probably get the hint and catch on to why I think that and let it die. I really, really didn't want bring it up, but congratulations on twisting my hand.

This is a pretty crazy thing to assert, especially knowing the ramifications of doing this day 1. One, you give scum Intel on a known powerrole, two, you give up Intel that you somehow know information before the night phase, three, what's stopping scum from NK either one of you now and getting rid of a troublesome player. If this is true, not a good play.

Either you get it or you don't, I'm not going to elaborate on it.

Regardless, you just painted targets on both your backs.

 

[PK Gaming]

Actually, I'm really not liking any of your comments, Style. None of them. I've said this before, and I've explained why multiple times. Don't act like you're above getting completely murdered this day phase.

Vote: Style

Hey, PK. Mind changing your vote to Style, too?

Oh no, i'm not falling for that trap. Flipping right back to Style after I just unflipped from him would definitely be bad move to make.

 

[Style]

@flatearthpandas

I get it now.

Regardless, you just painted targets on both your backs.

Clearly he didn't get it, so there's nothing to be seen.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Oh no, i'm not falling for that trap. Flipping right back to Style after I just unflipped from him would definitely be bad move to make.

Why.

 

[PK Gaming]

Why.

I could definitely see you or someone else pulling a "look at how quickly PK tried to backpedal when Flux gave them an out!" as evidence to incriminate me down the line.

I'm not some wishy washy mush man!

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I could definitely see you or someone else pulling a "look at how quickly PK tried to backpedal when Flux gave them an out!" as evidence to incriminate me down the line.

I'm not some wishy washy mush man!

Oh, okay. Too bad I am.

Vote: PK Gaming

 

[Style]

Is the vote tool down? Haven't updated for a while.

 

[11037]

Is the vote tool down? Haven't updated for a while.

I got you fam.

exmachina64 (0)
sorian 75 (140)

kerned (1)
zippedpinhead 88
natiko 126 (373)

sorian (0)
exmachina64 91 (148)

style (4)
ii-vanguard-ii 113
matt attack 182
11037 200
fluxwavez 206 (348)
pk gaming 353 (444)
fluxwavez 463 (492)
flatearthpandas 485

ii-vanguard-ii (2)
sorian 140
style 157 (391)
blackbuzzard 366

franconp (0)
plop 141 (439)
flatearthpandas 187 (485)

starsketch (1)
verelios 207

rynam (1)
theexodu5 241 (260)
theexodu5 395

blackbuzzard (0)
theexodu5 260 (371)
exmachina64 331 (398)

pk gaming (3)
fluxwavez 348 (463)
exmachina64 398
plop 439
fluxwavez 492

pkgaming (0)
theexodu5 371 (395)

roytheone (0)
el topo 388 (389)

fluxwavez (1)
pk gaming 444

 

[Matt Attack]

I'm in agreement that Style's posts have continued to do the exact opposite of inspire confidence. Whether he actually saw something hinting towards Flux's role or not, bringing it up was probably a poor choice. He's still easily my top lynch candidate, but I have some reservations: I am a little concerned regarding just how blatant the issues with Style's posts have become. I've seen townies who felt as if they were in a bit of a hopeless situation make poor decisions in the past, inadvertently making decent hiding places for scum votes. Sorian did bring up the possibility of a scumVanguard's vote being stuck on scumStyle, which is something to keep in mind once we've seen at least one of the two flip.

I think PK's defense (in post #458) was actually pretty good, even if it was a bit too snarky for my tastes. I don't think that anybody is ever obligated to give a new player any more leeway than a veteran, but I do think it's important to at least remember the fact that they are new, and I personally don't think that PK's actions are that incongruent with those a new townie might make. Doesn't mean that I think PK has contributed a much to town, but I also can't claim to find anything that makes me go "Hey wait a second...", outside of the lack of meat on his posts up until he was called out... and I have to admit that I feel a certain amount of sympathy towards the "contribute when you feel the time is right" play style, because as anybody who's played with me in the past knows, I tend to play that way too (more often than not, to my detriment, unfortunately).

Also, welcome to the game, WAMD and Ty!

 

[Matt Attack]

Oh, and I would love to hear reads and thoughts on the past few pages from Zipped and especially Rats. I just realized I forgot they were in the game.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

Oh, and I would love to hear reads and thoughts on the past few pages from Zipped and especially Rats. I just realized I forgot they were in the game.

From my experience I'm not sure if inactivity is necessarily an indication of any one alignment. Especially on day one, I find it understandable for one to sit back and watch, and to get reads. Day one is a crapshoot, and the chances of hitting town are very high, considering the lynch is based on no concrete information.

As for both of the players you mentioned, it is for the above reasons that I don't have any strong reads on them. I also haven't been in the game very long, so I'm also missing out on a lot of info considering I had to speed read the thread.

 

[Sorian]

And here I thought you were good at reading. I'm disappointed.

Cute snark but that doesn't change the facts. Saying that buzzard and I are suspicious is still independent of what your read on vanguard is which you've yet to really give at all.

Other notable from this page is the PK/Flux thing. I have no idea what Flux's alignment is but that long ass post front PK was so newbie town that it hurts. A whole lot of nothing said but honest and pure attempts at striking directly at Flux that I don't think scum would do, at least in that way. That was a post made by PK and PK alone with no outside bias and I doubt scum makes a book like that without some groupthink input.

 

[Sorian]

Ty, I need you to tell me if you are town or not. Last time we made a great team in NV and I could use you again.

 

[Sorian]

Also, I still have the same read of PK reading the new page. Style continues to act sketchy and Flux is doing his usual weird act which tells me nothing of his alignment. As another random aside, 11034 hasn't pinged me in the least so that's a good sign (hope I didn't get that random string of numbers wrong, sorry if I did)