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Persona, Star Ocean, And Final Fantasy Developers Discuss The Trend Of Remaking Classic RPGs

Thick Thighs Save Lives

NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
Every RPG faithful has that formative experience that turned them into a lifelong fan. But what if you could experience it again for the first time? Or if you could recommend it to those who haven’t played it without needing to explain away the parts that haven’t aged well? In today’s gaming landscape, remasters are common, but we’ve seen an influx of full-on remakes of classic role-playing games in recent years.

While 1990’s Ys I & II is likely the earliest example of remade role-playing games, perhaps the most prominent early examples came in the form of the Pokémon franchise. Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen, 2004 remakes of the series’ debut titles less than a decade after their initial release, showcased the technological leap from original Game Boy to Game Boy Advance. However, when those games were remade for a second time through Pokémon Let’s Go, Pikachu & Let’s Go, Eevee on Switch in 2018, it was an even bigger jump ahead.
02_0.jpg

Despite their mixed reception, the Switch versions served a specific purpose for Game Freak, who had developed its mainline Pokémon titles exclusively for handheld platforms to that point. “The plan from the beginning was to use Let’s Go, Pikachu & Let’s Go, Eevee as our pilot projects on Nintendo Switch to research how to develop the game, like researching how to render the 3D graphics and do all the different event cutscenes within the Nintendo Switch hardware,” Pokémon director Shigeru Ohmori told us in 2019. “The Let’s Go, Pikachu and the Sword & Shield teams were working together from the beginning to really build that base knowledge.”
But those remakes of Pokémon Red, Blue, and Yellow did something else beyond allowing Game Freak to ease into the development for a new platform through a familiar template: They made the first-generation Pokémon adventure available on a modern platform in some form. In talking with various developers who have worked on RPG remakes, making games available for a new generation serves as a primary motivation for them.

“Some of the titles that are considered classics are rather difficult to obtain and play in the modern gaming landscape, so seeing those titles getting high-quality remakes and having the experience passed down to a newer generation of players is something that should be welcomed by both creators and players,” Star Ocean: The Second Story R producer Kei Komaki says.
03_0.jpg

But even in an age where so many classic titles are re-released digitally, sometimes that isn’t enough to open the door to new players. In the case of the Persona series, 2023 welcomed Persona 3 Portable and Persona 4 Golden to current platforms. While the 2012 update to Persona 4 still feels modern enough, many felt Persona 3 Portable – a 2010 PSP release of the 2006 PS2 game – didn’t feel up to today’s standards.

The result led to intensified calls from the fan base for a request that had already been prominent within the Persona community: a modern remake of Persona 3. Fan demand often plays a major role in pushing development teams to focus on a remake. For the Persona team at Atlus, it was the primary motivating factor when development started.

“We had a lot of input from our fans and from players of our games and it seemed like everybody really wanted to see a remake of Persona 3,” Persona 3 Reload producer Ryota Niitsuma says. “Once we finished Persona 5 Royal, internally, we were ready for another title, and we were trying to figure out what it was, and it just seemed like the right moment. It seemed like all the stars had aligned.”
04_0.jpg

The community requests for a Persona 3 remake were focused and consistent, but fan demand was perhaps never higher for an RPG remake than in the lead up to the 2015 announcement of Final Fantasy VII Remake. It had become so overwhelming and persistent on social media that multiple members of the media brought it up with series producer Yoshinori Kitase during the team’s U.S. media tour for Final Fantasy XIII in 2009.

“We just got a ton of questions from reporters asking when we are going to make the Final Fantasy VII remake,” Kitase recalls. “Just hearing that so many times, I did think we would do it one day, that’s for certain. […] People had really approached us as if remaking VII was just a given. We had so much of that sentiment.”

Many remakes don’t have the luxury of involving the original developers in the creation of these new versions. But thanks to Square Enix’s long-tenured staff, the likes of Kitase, Kazushige Nojima, Motomu Toriyama, and Tetsuya Nomura – all of whom served crucial roles in the development of the original Final Fantasy VII – were still with the company and enthusiastic about being involved in a remake.
05_1.jpg

“Within Square Enix, gradually, remakes were being made, and these ideas for remakes were coming up in other departments, so if we weren’t going to do Final Fantasy VII, others were going to do it, so we had to rise up and do it!” Nomura says. “We had the sense that we really had to guard Final Fantasy VII and we have to be the ones taking this on or someone else was going to do it. I thought it may be a bit troublesome if other teams without us took on this project.”

The team on Final Fantasy VII Remake and Rebirth is also composed of those who didn’t work on the original game, but grew up playing it as fans, including director Naoki Hamaguchi. “I would say the majority of the dev staff and production members for Rebirth are those who were players of the original, not creators,” Toriyama says. “I think that the members of the Rebirth development team that were players or fans of the original wish to kind of protect and stay true to the original as much as possible.”
06.jpg

In fact, that seems to be an important task for all development teams working on remakes, as they attempt to balance appealing to the purists who grew up playing the game and the new generation who maybe wasn’t even born when the original launched. Those prove to be difficult conversations at the start of the project, as the teams balance old with new.

“I believe that there are two critical elements to consider,” Komaki says. “The first is to ensure that you’re making the game for the fans that have supported the title thus far, and the second is to take the nostalgia and experiences held dearly by the fans and turn them into something engaging for the newer players, as a modern game.”

Despite similar debates and conclusions happening at all the studios, the teams ended up at very different places. For the Star Ocean team, they created a pixel-based art style like that of the original game, but with HD elements and added effects. Meanwhile, the Persona developers opted for a more one-to-one approach, but in the style of its most recent game, Persona 5, complete with various modern amenities afforded by that format.
07_0.jpg

“There were a lot of people with a lot of different opinions.” Persona 3 Reload director Takuya Yamaguchi says. “After a lot of discussion, we decided to mainly go with a one-to-one approach to recreate the original game. […] It’s a new, modern game that has all the trappings that you would expect.”

The Final Fantasy VII Remake team made the most sweeping changes, blowing out the story and gameplay experience to create a massive, modern trilogy out of the original game. Not only that, but everything was rebuilt from the ground up, including the visuals, world, characters, and battle system.
08_0.jpg

That last point was perhaps the biggest undertaking for the Final Fantasy VII Remake team, and the one most indicative of why remakes are such a hot commodity in today’s gaming landscape: they can adapt to modern trends to appeal to new audiences.

“I do believe that not just for RPGs, but for other fantasy-type titles as well, the trend will be such that it’ll be moving towards incorporating more action elements and that will be the trajectory of games overall,” Hamaguchi says. “There’s this immediacy that brings about further immersion into the gameplay. Instead of viewing this fantasy world from the outside perspective as a player, to be fully immersed as if you are inside that world. That truly resonates with these players.”
09_0.jpg

Though the remakes mean different things for different developers, the trend seems here to stay. Star Ocean: The Second Story R and Super Mario RPG received high praise in 2023, and Persona 3 Reload and Final Fantasy VII Rebirth are among the most anticipated releases of the first quarter of 2024. Not only that, but remakes of classic games like The Witcher, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, and Dragon Quest III are announced for future release, meaning there are no signs of this trend slowing down.

And while there will always be those who bemoan so many developers working on remakes instead of all-new experiences, there’s no denying the power of making some of the greatest video games of all time approachable for a new generation of players.
 
It's understandable where they are coming from.

I really don't like this trend, at all. But I just take the "don't like it/want it? Don't buy it" approach.

I don't want developers to cater to my or anyone's nostalgia, for reasons I would rather not say. Being anti-nostalgia is VERY unpopular.

But I support making flawed or dated games that had so much value in it, more approachable for new players. So they can also experience that artistic value, that for the most part, could only be appreciated by someone that grew up with it.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
It's understandable where they are coming from.

I really don't like this trend, at all. But I just take the "don't like it/want it? Don't buy it" approach.

I don't want developers to cater to my or anyone's nostalgia, for reasons I would rather not say. Being anti-nostalgia is VERY unpopular.

But I support making flawed or dated games that had so much value in it, more approachable for new players. So they can also experience that artistic value, that for the most part, could only be appreciated by someone that grew up with it.
You can NEVER please everyone even if you do perfect 1:1 remake....for me I rather developers go about it however they want, either I like it or I won't.

For example I really liked what SE did with Final Fantasy VII Remake....in other hand HATED Bluepoints art change in Demons Souls.
 
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Pejo

Member
I'm finding out as more and more of these projects are greenlit, my imagination did a LOT of favors for these games, in both how scenes play out and what things looked like, and the quality of the story writing.

I'm not sure I honestly want more classic JRPGs to be remade, they seem to only be able to disappoint me.
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
I think Persona 3 is evidence that Square Enix made a mistake in how they 'remade" FF7.

The game could have sold just as well if not better had it been a true to life faithful remake and would have cost significantly less to make.

I think ultimately that's the game fans wanted and Persona 3 is the fastest selling atlus game ever...
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
I think Persona 3 is evidence that Square Enix made a mistake in how they 'remade" FF7.
200w.gif


First entire scale Persona 3 vs original FFVII is very different....Persona 3 significantly easier to do 1:1 remake compare to FFVII.

Second I'm glad SE took a risk with changing with Remake it fucking payed off, majority of people highly enjoyed it.
 
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I think Persona 3 is evidence that Square Enix made a mistake in how they 'remade" FF7.

The game could have sold just as well if not better had it been a true to life faithful remake and would have cost significantly less to make.

I think ultimately that's the game fans wanted and Persona 3 is the fastest selling atlus game ever...
Thing with 3 is the vast majority of Persona fans that played Persona 5 as their first Persona (aka the vast majority of Persona fans period) never played 3. The vast majority of the remaining Persona fans that didn't start with 5 started with 4. So there was an untapped market of people who have genuinely never played 3 ready to buy it because it is entirely new to them.

Most of the FFVII Remake players played the shit out of the original, or at least played it once before. They need something new otherwise what's the point.
 

Mister Wolf

Gold Member
No. HD-2D is an ugly, lazy and inconsistent mess

We need more of this:



I could accept that. I don't accept the 2D sprites in a 3D environment that isn't HD-2D. Like Star Ocean 2 Remake. Even though I supported, it looks jarring. HD-2D's putting pixel textures on 3D polygons in the environment removes the jarring look.
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
Thing with 3 is the vast majority of Persona fans that played Persona 5 as their first Persona (aka the vast majority of Persona fans period) never played 3. The vast majority of the remaining Persona fans that didn't start with 5 started with 4. So there was an untapped market of people who have genuinely never played 3 ready to buy it because it is entirely new to them.

Most of the FFVII Remake players played the shit out of the original, or at least played it once before. They need something new otherwise what's the point.
I disagree.

There is an entire generation of people who didn't play the original game. Do you know who is buying Persona 3? People who didn't play the first game and new fans.

This was an opportunity to create a new generation of FF fans, something they've largely failed to do since FFX excluding their online games.

That is what Persona 5 did for the series. It's also what allows them to go back and do Persona 3 and have it be so successful.

Why is Resident Evil so relevant again? Because of RE2 remake. The games are even more popular than they were originally.
 
HD-2D's putting pixel textures on 3D polygons in the environment removes the jarring look.
It's worse if the texture resolutions don't match
What makes it even worse is applying photorealistic lighting on top.
It looks amateurish and cheap.

And "HD-2D" is a horrible buzzword.
When I think of HD-2D I think of the image below

And not of that mess of pixels that Squeenix releases.
Even PS1 games look better than "HD-2D" games, but people are desperate for mediocre visuals!

I hear people screaming:
"PLEASE SQUEENIX, GIVE US MEDIOCRITY"

and I can't understand how we got here

bravely-default-2-1.jpg
 

Danwan224

Member
Thing with 3 is the vast majority of Persona fans that played Persona 5 as their first Persona (aka the vast majority of Persona fans period) never played 3. The vast majority of the remaining Persona fans that didn't start with 5 started with 4. So there was an untapped market of people who have genuinely never played 3 ready to buy it because it is entirely new to them.

Most of the FFVII Remake players played the shit out of the original, or at least played it once before. They need something new otherwise what's the point.
Also it's available on all modern consoles
 

Mister Wolf

Gold Member
It's worse if the texture resolutions don't match
What makes it even worse is applying photorealistic lighting on top.
It looks amateurish and cheap.

And "HD-2D" is a horrible buzzword.
When I think of HD-2D I think of the image below

And not of that mess of pixels that Squeenix releases.
Even PS1 games look better than "HD-2D" games, but people are desperate for mediocre visuals!

I hear people screaming:
"PLEASE SQUEENIX, GIVE US MEDIOCRITY"

and I can't understand how we got here

bravely-default-2-1.jpg

That is not HD-2D. This is HD-2D:

How-to-travel-faster-in-Octopath-Traveler-2.jpeg


The polygon environments are covered with sprite textures to properly blend the sprite characters within the environment. Look at the environment:

 
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This was an opportunity to create a new generation of FF fans, something they've largely failed to do since FFX excluding their online games.
Well this I do agree with entirely. They have utterly failed at sustaining the FF brand and it's being kept alive not by new games but by rereleases and remakes.

Regarding RE2 Remake, I'd argue that the FF7 Remake and RE2 Remake are extremely similar in what they change, what the keep, and what they reinvent. They are both the right amount of similar but different enough that imho is the mark of a good Remake.

Also it's available on all modern consoles
I mean yeah it is now, but that is what as of a year ago? And didn't the remake of 3 get announced around the same time the rereleases were announced?

It is actually kind of odd how close the rerelease and remake were released. FF7 Remake was like 5 years after the PS4 rerelease of the original.
 

AREYOUOKAY?

Member
Trials of Mana is how you do things. Another example of a remake doing this right would be Fire Emblem Echoes. Just slapping 3D graphics onto an old 2D game isn't enough if you want an old game to feel like a new one. You have to make it actually 3D with 3D movement and update the gameplay to work in 3D though that only really applies to games that aren't turned based.

It's no wonder Trials of Mana turned out better than the previous Mana remakes. It was a real disappointment that they didn't do the same with Legend of Mana as that also needed updates to the gameplay.
 
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March Climber

Gold Member
I think Persona 3 is evidence that Square Enix made a mistake in how they 'remade" FF7.

The game could have sold just as well if not better had it been a true to life faithful remake and would have cost significantly less to make.

I think ultimately that's the game fans wanted and Persona 3 is the fastest selling atlus game ever...
If this is about what I think it's about (turn based combat) then I can tell you right now that turn based combat would not have saved FF 16 from it's draggingly long second half. It would have made it worse if anything.

Square Enix needs new good writers. Persona team has the good writers. That's the problem.
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
Well this I do agree with entirely. They have utterly failed at sustaining the FF brand and it's being kept alive not by new games but by rereleases and remakes.

Regarding RE2 Remake, I'd argue that the FF7 Remake and RE2 Remake are extremely similar in what they change, what the keep, and what they reinvent. They are both the right amount of similar but different enough that imho is the mark of a good Remake.

I would argue RE2 Remake is what the original would have been had it been made today.

FF7 was always a turn based RPG, it's not as if they didn't have action games at the time. The decision to change it to an action game limited its userbase. That being said it also goes way more out of pocket in changing things than RE2.
 

Northeastmonk

Gold Member
I want a Front Mission 3 port and Suikoden II. Lots and lots of games to be remastered/remade. Front Mission 3 was announced for a later date, but much be much later since we haven’t gotten Front Mission 2 yet. I’m down day 1 for these. I don’t have to replay the original media anymore.
 

NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt

Biggest Trails Stan
I'm finding out as more and more of these projects are greenlit, my imagination did a LOT of favors for these games, in both how scenes play out and what things looked like, and the quality of the story writing.

I'm not sure I honestly want more classic JRPGs to be remade, they seem to only be able to disappoint me.

Agreed there

I would rather have a new entry in a franchise than a remake
 
That is not HD-2D. This is HD-2D:
Mister Wolf Mister Wolf
I *know* that's what Squeenix refers as "HD-2D".
What I meant to say is that there's nothing "HD" about it.
Bravely Default has high resolution art (i.e. not pixel art) and would make more sense to use the "HD" terminology for that type of game instead.

The polygon environments are covered with sprite textures to properly blend the sprite characters within the environment. Look at the environment:
There's nothing properly blended, Mister Wolf Mister Wolf
Not to mention all those tiling textures on the ground, overuse of depth of field, photorealistic lighting on 3D environments but sprites have cartoon shading, high resolution UI & text that do not match the sprites' resolutions, and on and on.

It's a mess Mister Wolf Mister Wolf , I don't understand how can people see beauty in that Mister Wolf Mister Wolf
People are blinded by nostalgia, and are desperatly craving for good JRPGs again, like those of the SNES/PS1 era.

But this is not it.
This is focusing on the superficial to cheapen development costs.
All those "HD-2D" games do is reward Squeenix for embracing mediocrity and getting rich along the way.

I want you to see the LIGHT Mister Wolf Mister Wolf !!

spongebob squarepants vampire GIF
 

Mister Wolf

Gold Member
Mister Wolf Mister Wolf
I *know* that's what Squeenix refers as "HD-2D".
What I meant to say is that there's nothing "HD" about it.
Bravely Default has high resolution art (i.e. not pixel art) and would make more sense to use the "HD" terminology for that type of game instead.


There's nothing properly blended, Mister Wolf Mister Wolf
Not to mention all those tiling textures on the ground, overuse of depth of field, photorealistic lighting on 3D environments but sprites have cartoon shading, high resolution UI & text that do not match the sprites' resolutions, and on and on.

It's a mess Mister Wolf Mister Wolf , I don't understand how can people see beauty in that Mister Wolf Mister Wolf
People are blinded by nostalgia, and are desperatly craving for good JRPGs again, like those of the SNES/PS1 era.

But this is not it.
This is focusing on the superficial to cheapen development costs.
All those "HD-2D" games do is reward Squeenix for embracing mediocrity and getting rich along the way.

I want you to see the LIGHT Mister Wolf Mister Wolf !!

spongebob squarepants vampire GIF

I respect your opinion Slime but if you can't see the beauty in Octopath 2's presentation, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
 
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NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt

Biggest Trails Stan
Mister Wolf Mister Wolf
I *know* that's what Squeenix refers as "HD-2D".
What I meant to say is that there's nothing "HD" about it.
Bravely Default has high resolution art (i.e. not pixel art) and would make more sense to use the "HD" terminology for that type of game instead.


There's nothing properly blended, Mister Wolf Mister Wolf
Not to mention all those tiling textures on the ground, overuse of depth of field, photorealistic lighting on 3D environments but sprites have cartoon shading, high resolution UI & text that do not match the sprites' resolutions, and on and on.

It's a mess Mister Wolf Mister Wolf , I don't understand how can people see beauty in that Mister Wolf Mister Wolf
People are blinded by nostalgia, and are desperatly craving for good JRPGs again, like those of the SNES/PS1 era.

But this is not it.
This is focusing on the superficial to cheapen development costs.
All those "HD-2D" games do is reward Squeenix for embracing mediocrity and getting rich along the way.

I want you to see the LIGHT Mister Wolf Mister Wolf !!

spongebob squarepants vampire GIF

As for remakes have you tried out Star Ocean The Second Story R yet? That's a fantastic remake, and I highly recommend it. Even though I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't like it ;)👀

You said "People are blinded by nostalgia, and are desperatly craving for good JRPGs again, like those of the SNES/PS1 era." You forgot to add PS2 in that era too
 
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think Persona 3 is evidence that Square Enix made a mistake in how they 'remade" FF7.

The game could have sold just as well if not better had it been a true to life faithful remake and would have cost significantly less to make.
They need something new otherwise what's the point.

The thing with Squeenix is that they had no faith in their own product.

In their minds, a game like FF7 wouldn't interest modern audiences.
It was also probably mismanaged and went through development hell, since it was announced in 2014 and it took 6~7 years for it to finally be released.

The end result was that mess of a plot. A fanfic would probably have more quality than that.
Not to mention the characters' overreactions in cutscenes, weird facial expressions, shounen anime fights, harem trope for thirsty otakus, Midgar looking incredibly dull, and all that filler to make the game last way more than it should.

I see people saying that developers should have freedom in doing whatever they want with remakes.
Cute.
But if the developer does not like the source material (or does not have faith in it), they should just work on something else.

Imagine someone remaking Lord of the Rings.
"Eh, I don't like Frodo, I'll make Gandalf ride a dinosaur to take the ring to Mordor. Except now Gandalf is evil and wants the ring for himself. So I'll make Gollum kill Gandalf with a salmon and take the ring to the depths of hell with him. Why? Because ITZ COOL AND ITZ DIFFERENT AND BETTER THAN GIVING THE AUDIENCE WHAT THEY EXPECT FROM LOTR"

This mentality of taking the oppportunity in a remake to make things entirely different to "subvert expectations" or "because itz cool" is the worst trend in existence now.
Just keep it simple and give people what they want. That's the MINIMUM a developer should do.

Also
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
That is not HD-2D. This is HD-2D:

How-to-travel-faster-in-Octopath-Traveler-2.jpeg


The polygon environments are covered with sprite textures to properly blend the sprite characters within the environment. Look at the environment:


How can anyone look at this and say its ugly? I looove this visual style so much.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
It's the most innovative thing I've seen in gaming presentation since cel shading was introduced. Do you remember what was the first game to use cel shading? Was it Jet Grind?
I think so? If I remember correctly that game first came out in Dreamcast and I dont remember any game before that game that had cell-shading.
 

Mister Wolf

Gold Member
I think so? If I remember correctly that game first came out in Dreamcast and I dont remember any game before that game that had cell-shading.

What do you call the shading that we see in games like Tales Of Arise and this new Mana game? I think I remember you correcting me that it is not cel shading.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
What do you call the shading that we see in games like Tales Of Arise and this new Mana game? I think I remember you correcting me that it is not cel shading.
Tales of Arise is not really cell shading....

This cell-shading with bright colours but no texture detail to replicate cell-shade in anime.
jqSCLrRmGd5qRC2XmhoGKX.jpg


Tale of Arise in other hand is going for painted look...
MV5BY2Q5YTBiZDMtMWJkYi00MjczLWExOWMtMmQwMDU5N2FiYWM4XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTEzMTI1Mjk3._V1_.jpg


This also true as well with Visions of Mana, that game also is not cell-shaded.
visionsofmana-1-blogroll-1702000619510.jpg


I give you another example.

Granblue Fantasy Relink
Granblue-Fantasy-Relink-4.jpg


Granblue Fantasy Versus
maxresdefault.jpg


You can easily see the difference between the two.
 
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sigmaZ

Member
Star Ocean is definitely the one that surprised me the most. What an enjoyable game.
Yeah. I actually hated the original and Iove the remake. They basically fixed every gripe I had and I love the sense of presence that the lighting and the environments give. I want to see the same done for Xenoblade.
 
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Oberstein

Member
Yeah. I actually hated the original and Iove the remake. They basically fixed every gripe I had and I love the sense of presence that the lighting and the environments give. I want to see the same done for Xenoblade.

Probably one of the best remakes for a 2D JRPG. I was perplexed by the initial illustrations, but once I got into the game, everything was swept away. The process used is really interesting, with pixelated characters, HD elements that look like pre-calculated PS1-era scenery and so on.

That's what I like about the 2D remake "craze" that's now being criticized, it's the way it's evolving.

Between Octopath 1 and the sequel, there's a world of difference. OP1 has already aged a lot, looking too clean and sanitized, whereas OP2 has, for me, reached the aesthetic plateau of the moment (with Live a Live). The camera movements in OP2 are a work of art.

I still think it's the best way to present these old JRPGs. Some manage honorably in 3D (Trials of Mana), but keeping one or more aspects in 2D is key. After that, it's up to the new player to retry the adventure with the original (it's best to have done it before).
 

Fabieter

Member
I disagree.

There is an entire generation of people who didn't play the original game. Do you know who is buying Persona 3? People who didn't play the first game and new fans.

This was an opportunity to create a new generation of FF fans, something they've largely failed to do since FFX excluding their online games.

That is what Persona 5 did for the series. It's also what allows them to go back and do Persona 3 and have it be so successful.

Why is Resident Evil so relevant again? Because of RE2 remake. The games are even more popular than they were originally.

We did have a threads on gaf that people werent happy with the pricing on Persona 3 because they felt they didnt do enough to justifying that.

As for me i only accept 1:1 remakes if i never played or at least not finished the original game.
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
We did have a threads on gaf that people werent happy with the pricing on Persona 3 because they felt they didnt do enough to justifying that.

As for me i only accept 1:1 remakes if i never played or at least not finished the original game.

I said just that in the thread. I bought Persona 3 for 70.

I got into the franchise with Persona 5, having never really played any of the others. To remake these games with the same standards as Persona 5... I'll buy all of them for 70 dollars. That's potentially 280 bucks you can get from me not even including Persona 6.

Never understood why people get upset at remakes that are full price. If they're quality but you've played the game and don't want to play it again... just don't buy it or wait for a price drop if you don't think it is worth it, but there is obviously a multitude of people who haven't played the first games.

The same is true of The Witcher games, God of War.

God of War 2018 sold 20+ million copies. God of War 1 sold 4.61 million units... The God of War remaster collection on Ps3 sold 2.42 million...

You're looking at at least 13 million people (assuming little to no overlap on the remaster) that never played the original game. A remake in this case is obvious.

People get on Naughty Dog about remaking their games too. I remember Uncharted getting shit on because it didn't sell as well as Halo on 360.



Uncharted 4 outsold Halo 3... So doesn't it make sense to remake Uncharted 1-3 with a larger fanbase so that these people who never experienced the original games can play it? Why would Sony/ND sit on that?

Then you have TLOU 1 and 2... basically Sony's biggest franchise and they want to bring it to PC to expand on things, especially with the popularity of the TV show. It doesn't make sense to remake/remaster these games for the PC audience and ensure the PS5 audience has the opportunity to play Sony's flagship titles at a similar level?

All these moves Sony has done make complete sense, especially as other projects take considerably longer to finish with more resources.

From games are also more popular now, but Demon's Souls released at a time when PS5s were hard to come by and it's largely not had legs. I think a PC release will be the test of things and if Demon's Souls can sell on PC it might jar more PS5 sales and would force a Bloodborne remaster/remake as well. These games sold significantly less than Dark Souls and Elden Ring.

Even the most "craven" of the remasters/remakes which would be Horizon Zero Dawn, I can see why they'd want another crack at it even though it was already released on PC. Horizon Forbidden West looks amazing, if you can retouch the first game with the up to date engine with little resources before the Horizon TV show, it makes sense to release that as well.

I have no problem with remasters/remakes. If there is a market for them, that's why they're being created. If they don't do well, either there was no market or the game was poorly remade/remastered.
 

AREYOUOKAY?

Member
I said just that in the thread. I bought Persona 3 for 70.

I got into the franchise with Persona 5, having never really played any of the others. To remake these games with the same standards as Persona 5... I'll buy all of them for 70 dollars. That's potentially 280 bucks you can get from me not even including Persona 6.

Never understood why people get upset at remakes that are full price. If they're quality but you've played the game and don't want to play it again... just don't buy it or wait for a price drop if you don't think it is worth it, but there is obviously a multitude of people who haven't played the first games.

The same is true of The Witcher games, God of War.

God of War 2018 sold 20+ million copies. God of War 1 sold 4.61 million units... The God of War remaster collection on Ps3 sold 2.42 million...

You're looking at at least 13 million people (assuming little to no overlap on the remaster) that never played the original game. A remake in this case is obvious.

People get on Naughty Dog about remaking their games too. I remember Uncharted getting shit on because it didn't sell as well as Halo on 360.



Uncharted 4 outsold Halo 3... So doesn't it make sense to remake Uncharted 1-3 with a larger fanbase so that these people who never experienced the original games can play it? Why would Sony/ND sit on that?

Then you have TLOU 1 and 2... basically Sony's biggest franchise and they want to bring it to PC to expand on things, especially with the popularity of the TV show. It doesn't make sense to remake/remaster these games for the PC audience and ensure the PS5 audience has the opportunity to play Sony's flagship titles at a similar level?

All these moves Sony has done make complete sense, especially as other projects take considerably longer to finish with more resources.

From games are also more popular now, but Demon's Souls released at a time when PS5s were hard to come by and it's largely not had legs. I think a PC release will be the test of things and if Demon's Souls can sell on PC it might jar more PS5 sales and would force a Bloodborne remaster/remake as well. These games sold significantly less than Dark Souls and Elden Ring.

Even the most "craven" of the remasters/remakes which would be Horizon Zero Dawn, I can see why they'd want another crack at it even though it was already released on PC. Horizon Forbidden West looks amazing, if you can retouch the first game with the up to date engine with little resources before the Horizon TV show, it makes sense to release that as well.

I have no problem with remasters/remakes. If there is a market for them, that's why they're being created. If they don't do well, either there was no market or the game was poorly remade/remastered.

True. While not really talking about remakes or remasters I did say this in another thread that Microsoft and Sony are basically idiots for not giving PC (Steam) users absolutely everything when it comes to Halo and Uncharted.

What good does not porting Halo 5 to Steam do when 0-4 and 6 are there? Not to mention Halo Wars 1 but not 2 for Steam when RTS games make the most sense on computers in the first place.

What good goes starting Uncharted at 4 do for PC users?

It’s basically free money that could have been made for users to complete their favorite series. The missing game may or may not be good, but that really doesn’t matter to fans new or old wanting it all together.
 
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Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
True. While not really talking about remakes or remasters I did say this in another thread that Microsoft and Sony are basically idiots for not giving PC (Steam) users absolutely everything when it comes to Halo and Uncharted.

What good does not porting Halo 5 to Steam do when 0-4 and 6 are there? Not to mention Halo Wars 1 but not 2 for Steam when RTS games make the most sense on computers in the first place.

What good goes starting Uncharted at 4 do for PC users?

It’s basically free money that could have been made for users to complete their favorite series. The missing game may or may not be good, but that really doesn’t matter to fans new or old wanting it all together.

In defense of Sony, they had to rush getting UC4 on PC for the movie.

UC1-3, especially 1 are in bad shape. The trilogy needs a remake before launching on PC.
 

kunonabi

Member
I think Persona 3 is evidence that Square Enix made a mistake in how they 'remade" FF7.

The game could have sold just as well if not better had it been a true to life faithful remake and would have cost significantly less to make.

I think ultimately that's the game fans wanted and Persona 3 is the fastest selling atlus game ever...

I don't necessarily mind them making a nutty timey-wimey sequel to FFVII I just wish they didn't pretend it was a remake for so long. I didn't like the original that much because it had some major issues so an actual remake would have been something I'd be interested in. Instead we got another action game with more Nomura bullshit slathered all over it.
 

Fabieter

Member
I said just that in the thread. I bought Persona 3 for 70.

I got into the franchise with Persona 5, having never really played any of the others. To remake these games with the same standards as Persona 5... I'll buy all of them for 70 dollars. That's potentially 280 bucks you can get from me not even including Persona 6.

Never understood why people get upset at remakes that are full price. If they're quality but you've played the game and don't want to play it again... just don't buy it or wait for a price drop if you don't think it is worth it, but there is obviously a multitude of people who haven't played the first games.

The same is true of The Witcher games, God of War.

God of War 2018 sold 20+ million copies. God of War 1 sold 4.61 million units... The God of War remaster collection on Ps3 sold 2.42 million...

You're looking at at least 13 million people (assuming little to no overlap on the remaster) that never played the original game. A remake in this case is obvious.

People get on Naughty Dog about remaking their games too. I remember Uncharted getting shit on because it didn't sell as well as Halo on 360.



Uncharted 4 outsold Halo 3... So doesn't it make sense to remake Uncharted 1-3 with a larger fanbase so that these people who never experienced the original games can play it? Why would Sony/ND sit on that?

Then you have TLOU 1 and 2... basically Sony's biggest franchise and they want to bring it to PC to expand on things, especially with the popularity of the TV show. It doesn't make sense to remake/remaster these games for the PC audience and ensure the PS5 audience has the opportunity to play Sony's flagship titles at a similar level?

All these moves Sony has done make complete sense, especially as other projects take considerably longer to finish with more resources.

From games are also more popular now, but Demon's Souls released at a time when PS5s were hard to come by and it's largely not had legs. I think a PC release will be the test of things and if Demon's Souls can sell on PC it might jar more PS5 sales and would force a Bloodborne remaster/remake as well. These games sold significantly less than Dark Souls and Elden Ring.

Even the most "craven" of the remasters/remakes which would be Horizon Zero Dawn, I can see why they'd want another crack at it even though it was already released on PC. Horizon Forbidden West looks amazing, if you can retouch the first game with the up to date engine with little resources before the Horizon TV show, it makes sense to release that as well.

I have no problem with remasters/remakes. If there is a market for them, that's why they're being created. If they don't do well, either there was no market or the game was poorly remade/remastered.


I adore remakes but I can't stand 1:1 remakes anymore. Remastered are on different page but iam mostly ignore them nowadays if I already played them but iam always in for a new take on a classic.
 
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