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Peter Molyneux provides Fable damage control...
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Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
-the world is also not as vast and seamless as originally intended.
TheGreenGiant said:
how does
= Blaming fans???
He's blaming himself for telling people about features before they'd tested them and realised they didnt work (ie they werent fun).
So really if you want to use your student teacher setting it would be more like
"Sorry Miss my dog ate all my bad ideas, heres the rest"
Seriously, you want a game where the trees age, or where you can hurt children, well thats great, personally i hope he leaves both things out of any future fable game. Competing with other heroes was the only thing that really should have been there that wasn't.
Mike Works
Member
:lolThe Faceless Master said:the trees grow in Animal Crossing
Wasn't Fable designed by the Carter brothers, not Molyneux?
It amazes me how much credit he takes for this game, or any game under the Lionhead umbrella. AND MORE TO THE POINT: How eager the press seem to be to believe that he's responsible for everything that goes on since he's the most popular figurehead guy at the company.
Can't wait to see him take credit for Unity.
Edit: Actually, that should probably be: Can't wait to see the press GIVE him credit for Unity.
It amazes me how much credit he takes for this game, or any game under the Lionhead umbrella. AND MORE TO THE POINT: How eager the press seem to be to believe that he's responsible for everything that goes on since he's the most popular figurehead guy at the company.
Can't wait to see him take credit for Unity.
Edit: Actually, that should probably be: Can't wait to see the press GIVE him credit for Unity.
Ghost said:
?
You can hurt children in Fable.
I guess this applies to all who were disappointed after all the features which were promised. I really wasn't disappointed by the game. I hoped that there'd be a little more as far as caring for the characters, but I'm finding murdering everyone in the game is so fucking satisfying.
I talked to this one chick who was helping me marry Lady Grey. I kept pushing A, and now I have to marry her. What's worse is that she goes from this nice accent/voice to "OY! 'OW 'BOUT A WEDDING RING FER MY FINGER, AY!?"
And Whisper this go was no fucking help at ALL when those fucking rock trolls came out of the ground and both were hurling rocks at me. She got EXACTLY what was coming to her.
And Whisper this go was no fucking help at ALL when those fucking rock trolls came out of the ground and both were hurling rocks at me. She got EXACTLY what was coming to her.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Kamille said:
Would it really be so hard to add a couple inches to each tree at the beginning of each day?RiZ III said:
Actually, he is blaming the Xbox hardware for their difficulties. I haven't seen him admit that the ideas were bad or not any fun....that would probably seriously undermine his ability to hype future games.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I see this as pure damage control - the Big Blue Box forums are getting hella flamed. Somebody was going to have to say something sooner or later. It's not that I want to take no pity on the guy. All I'm thinking about to contrast his damage control is this:
- Most people who were not the obsessive Ego fans waiting for five years and had a beef with the game are criticizing it fairly, compared to other games in the same genre. Virtually every professional review has tip-toed as if through a minefield around outright stating "by any standards, the game is too short and easy".
- What Peter should be appologizing for is a game that was released and drove a lot of people mad due to so many "cut features" still leaving hints in the gameworld. Continents, text and lore in readable books, and sloppily "sealed" doors that used to go places. I don't blame people for getting way frustrated at fruitlessly searching for stuff that should exist, but doesn't. Stuff the game even directs you to look for.
- The bit about tracking the growth of trees using 15% of CPU power at all times (what is implied by how he says it) sounds so much like a ludicrous reach to sound legitimate. Little details like having trees or scenery change over time don't have to be tracked like the core game AI or world economy. When it comes to details like that, most games "cheat" because it -is- impossible to track so much at once.
One of these days, I have to wonder if somebody like Peter M will be so honest as to come out and say "the direction of game X was sloppy and mishandled. It languished in development hell way over time and budget, and we dropped the ball. We need to learn from this for our next project." Not that I'm claiming there's absolute proof this is what happened to Fable. Just from everything I've seen, I strongly suspect everything was a mess up until a year ago perhaps, and then they quickly threw together an almost different game, and the rush shows. Even the loading times are grossely unoptimized by typical Xbox standards.
- Most people who were not the obsessive Ego fans waiting for five years and had a beef with the game are criticizing it fairly, compared to other games in the same genre. Virtually every professional review has tip-toed as if through a minefield around outright stating "by any standards, the game is too short and easy".
- What Peter should be appologizing for is a game that was released and drove a lot of people mad due to so many "cut features" still leaving hints in the gameworld. Continents, text and lore in readable books, and sloppily "sealed" doors that used to go places. I don't blame people for getting way frustrated at fruitlessly searching for stuff that should exist, but doesn't. Stuff the game even directs you to look for.
- The bit about tracking the growth of trees using 15% of CPU power at all times (what is implied by how he says it) sounds so much like a ludicrous reach to sound legitimate. Little details like having trees or scenery change over time don't have to be tracked like the core game AI or world economy. When it comes to details like that, most games "cheat" because it -is- impossible to track so much at once.
One of these days, I have to wonder if somebody like Peter M will be so honest as to come out and say "the direction of game X was sloppy and mishandled. It languished in development hell way over time and budget, and we dropped the ball. We need to learn from this for our next project." Not that I'm claiming there's absolute proof this is what happened to Fable. Just from everything I've seen, I strongly suspect everything was a mess up until a year ago perhaps, and then they quickly threw together an almost different game, and the rush shows. Even the loading times are grossely unoptimized by typical Xbox standards.
Reverend: Let's hope that's true. I mean, don't get me wrong I have a huge amount of respect for Molyneux as a designer. I actually loved Black And White for chrissakes. I just think he's not too good with the sharing credit thing.
Something I noticed when he presents a game for the first time (and everyone else who has seen him present a game at E3 or wherever, please correct me if you think I'm wrong) is that he just says yes to every cockamamie idea handed to him by the press.
Journo: "Will Ego have trees that grow with age?"
PM: "Yes"
(6 months later, back at Lionhead)
PM: "...well, fuck."
Journo: "Where are our trees OMG you lied."
Something I noticed when he presents a game for the first time (and everyone else who has seen him present a game at E3 or wherever, please correct me if you think I'm wrong) is that he just says yes to every cockamamie idea handed to him by the press.
Journo: "Will Ego have trees that grow with age?"
PM: "Yes"
(6 months later, back at Lionhead)
PM: "...well, fuck."
Journo: "Where are our trees OMG you lied."
Peter, please take note from Itagaki, just tell the whinners to fuck off
People forget what Fable does right, getting the shop keepers drunk so you can steal items is pure genius. Demon doors = neat idea, for the next Fable one of the Doors should start like "Riddle me this motherfucker"
would be cool.
Anyway I feel like Fable is one major lesson in design for BBB, which sets up Fable 2 brilliantly.
People forget what Fable does right, getting the shop keepers drunk so you can steal items is pure genius. Demon doors = neat idea, for the next Fable one of the Doors should start like "Riddle me this motherfucker"
would be cool.
Anyway I feel like Fable is one major lesson in design for BBB, which sets up Fable 2 brilliantly.
:lol :lol :lol
Fable is a success, but at what cost? Blue Box must be getting pounded with hate mail right now.
I guess it didn't make sense to have a huge sprawling world either....must be more fun to promise a grand "create your own hero tale" adventure by segmenting the game into a linear path.
I actually like Fable too, but Molyneaux sob story isn't fooling anyone but those with blinders. There was quite a bit cut out from Fable, growing trees isn't even a huge concern....
Kaijima said:
Well the thing is, would it have been ok to cheat? Obviously if they marketed the game as "trees grow as YOU do!" people would plant a specific tree and make sure THAT one grows correctly. Something so apparent to the user like trees can't really be faked like that, the user is interacting with it on a constant basis and it's a very large object. So then they'd have to keep track of all the trees, and from a pure data-storage standpoint that could eat up your RAM pretty damn quickly. So since there's the matter of limited RAM you're gonna be swapping in and out like crazy and that's gonna tax your CPU. So does 15% sound so outlandish still?
Are you all forgetting that B&W had real-time growing trees?
Scalemail Ted
Member
rastex said:
Ummm...they cheated with as you grow as far as time or age is concerned. You aged only after completeing story related quest.
Who the fuck would be stupid enough to list that as a feature in an advertisement?rastex said:
"Holy shit man, did you hear about that game where trees grow?!"
"Fuck no, but now that I have....I'm getting an Xbox next week!"
If the trees grow at the same rate that you do, then it would technically be correct. If the height is increased an inch at the beginning of each day, then they wouldn't need to be constantly calculating tree growth. It would be scripted for 99% of the trees in the game, except for the ones you plant.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Gazunta said:
He is credited in the game as the Executive Designer or some such title...with Dene Carter as Lead Designer just underneath him. Simon's obviously the Lead Programmer. The relationship of the three doesn't seem to be all that different from the old Bullfrog setup. Still, as credit is given to and accepted by PM for Fable, he's the one taking the blame for any disappointment around the dropped or modified features in the finished title. So, at least, PM doesn't just back away from it.
Seriously, though, the main feature I didn't know would be missing is the simulated competing heroes...which was the strongest part of the design (conceptually) to me. That feature gone missing is the single worst part about Fable. Otherwise, it's a great foundation to build upon.
He should have just never hyped any of the extraneous crap. I remember in these forums, well, 2 or 3 forums ago when Fable was first announced, many people were skeptical of the touted features, and rightfully so. It's still a pretty good game, but why tout all of these features that even to the untrained eye seem impossible? IIRC, Pete M was the same way with Black and White, where he promised all this stuff that was later impossible. Fable would have been a better game if all this extra crap was never even planned on in the first place. It would have been much more focused.
I agree with this sentiment. This seems to be what most people bash the game for.Lazy8s said:
I mean, the game has its fair share of flaws and tons of untapped potential, but it's still a fine game in its own right. Peter Molyneux just has a big mouth, that's all.
The real lesson here is: DON'T BUY INTO DEVELOPERS' HYPE. IT WILL MAKE YOU BETTER ENJOY GAMES WITHOUT WORRYING ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THEY LIVE UP TO 3 YEAR OLD PROMISES.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Im kinda late to the party with fable since i've only got it since yesterday, but i got to the point where you complete the arena quest, so far, what damage is there to control? The game is superb, sure it might not have delivered on ALL promises but who cares, its adding a shitload to the RPG genre.
Btw, i thought i could pick up heads and use them as a weapon? I cant seem to be able to pick them up, help?
Btw, i thought i could pick up heads and use them as a weapon? I cant seem to be able to pick them up, help?
Fable was one of my most anticipated games of all time. As of maybe several months ago I began to realize(accept?) that it wasn't going to have half of the features that were promised, and I just stopped following its development. I even eventually canceled my pre-order, and I haven't read a single review.
I know I'd probably love the game, but I need to wait a while until the hype is completely cleared from my mind and I can enjoy the game merely for what it is....whatever that is. I still don't know what features are in the game and what aren't. All I know is every week I read about this or that feature that had me shitting my pants in excitement one or two years ago, not in the game.
What I want to know is, does the game have more of an action feel or an adventure feel to it? I was really looking forward to a nice epic adventure in a large, grand world that you can explore. Will I be disappointed?
I know I'd probably love the game, but I need to wait a while until the hype is completely cleared from my mind and I can enjoy the game merely for what it is....whatever that is. I still don't know what features are in the game and what aren't. All I know is every week I read about this or that feature that had me shitting my pants in excitement one or two years ago, not in the game.
What I want to know is, does the game have more of an action feel or an adventure feel to it? I was really looking forward to a nice epic adventure in a large, grand world that you can explore. Will I be disappointed?
I think it has more of an adventure feel. The world as a whole feels pretty big, but you are somewhat confined by the relatively small-ish zones. As a result, the game sort of feels more like you are traveling down various paths and trails that cut through a very grand world. So on one hand the sense of scope is very much there (and you do travel all over the place), but on the other hand, it's not there in the "look at this world that I can run all over and explore to my heart's content"/Morrowind sort of sense.demon said:
MetatronM said:
There's a difference between hype and what is shown to be the game for four years. Molyneux saying "Fable will be the greatest RPG of all time" is hype. Molyneux telling everyone that his game has other heroes that compete with you isn't hype.
demon said:
Yes, you will be. The game is not epic, and the world is not grand or large. Consider all the media you've been shown for the past four years from a different game entirely, because 85% of it is no longer representative of Fable.
As far as the kind of game it is, it really feels like an adventure game shoehorned into a linear, action game world. It's all roads going from A to B, and you just hack stuff up on your way through.
And if by "exploration" you mean keeping an eye out for stuff on the side of the road as you're walking down it, yes, there is a lot of exploration.
Its more linear, its towns connected with almost straight paths that are maybe 5x the width of your character so you can't really 'stray off' the path at all. In fact you can't even walk around a lot of the stuff in your path because as soon as you get to the 'side' it's the old invisable wall trick.
If it wasn't for knee high fences that are physically impossible to jump over, i'm sure many a world would have been saved long ago.
I dunno, I never got the 'adventure' feel. Its BD : DA type hack and slash with slightly more involved combat and more interactive town sequences. By interactive I mean sure there's a lot of shit you can do, but the actual outcome of it is fairly unimportant and while 'interacting' with villagers is nice, the fact that they only spew 3 or 4 canned responses gets a little old.
If it wasn't for knee high fences that are physically impossible to jump over, i'm sure many a world would have been saved long ago.
I dunno, I never got the 'adventure' feel. Its BD : DA type hack and slash with slightly more involved combat and more interactive town sequences. By interactive I mean sure there's a lot of shit you can do, but the actual outcome of it is fairly unimportant and while 'interacting' with villagers is nice, the fact that they only spew 3 or 4 canned responses gets a little old.
I dont think others would consider it innovative, but it certainly is fresh. The colour coded NPCs helps big time (each colour tells you whether a NPC offers you a quest, is a enemy or neutral), stealing from shops using various distractions, character morphing (evil, good, fat, slim), NPC interaction and the whole economy system (buying towns and being a land lord)
Go try it out. Fable does indeed rock. Its just not as good as it could have been.
Go try it out. Fable does indeed rock. Its just not as good as it could have been.
JackFrost2012
Banned
demon said:
farting, polygamy, boredom
Prine said:
I'm impressed with all the things that you can do, but there's very few incentives to do them. The light/dark so far doesn't seem to make much difference except for how the villagers react to you, and the ending. That's good in its own right, but I thought that games like KOTOR made better use of the good/evil affecting the outcome of the game, even though I think that the story didn't truly change in KOTOR with alignment.
I appreciate that you can get married, buy/sell houses, murder villagers, etc, but why do any of those things except for the sake of being able to do them? This is fine in games like GTA, which are more arcade oriented, but in an RPG there should be some outcome that actually affects the game when you do these things. There should be more meaningful interactions with the wife, like side quests with her where you fetch groceries and stuff with an eventual outcome of a child or something. The game as a whole is good, but it's not nearly everything that I was hoping it would be.
CrimsonSkies
Member
Great game that I had fun with what was there. Too bad so many people go through life bitching and moaning about the cup half empty.