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[studyguy]

Just finished reading this. There are no words for how upsetting it is to see such a gross misuse of medicine. Wildly unethical actions taken by so many involved.

State sanctioned torture pure and simple. The fact that they turn death row inmates into human chemistry sets without knowing exactly what will happen going into it is barbarism at its worst, if I recall there were something like 3 other incidents that same year. Regardless of how you feel about those sentenced to death, it's absolutely cruel and unusual punishment. I'm sure some people will applaud that suffering they went through but the justice system should dole out swift and decisive punishment, not satisfy some fucked up sense of vengeance.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/06/execution-clayton-lockett/392069/
Again story in question regard what comes of states who decide to say fuck it and use alternative drugs instead, urge reading it to get a better grasp of the outcomes that have been repeated NUMEROUS times now.

 

[Philly40]

.

That being said I think some people need to be executed. I just think there needs to be a large foundation of evidence, and an expedited system in place.

Yeah, I think it's OK to execute some people too, especially if we are sure they've done something really really bad.

If we're not 100% sure maybe we can put them in prison or something?

 

[HalfBakedProphet]

Yeah, I think it's OK to execute some people too, especially if we are sure they've done something really really bad.

that's part of the problem, there isn't necessarily such thing as a "sure" in a lot of cases. We don't always know. And the criminal justice system of the United States is undeniably racist. Minorities are much more likely to be imprisoned AND more likely to face the death penalty simply because of their skin color or ethnicity

 

[gabbo]

Won't stop overzealous states from doing the wrong thing and moving forward with turning death row inmates into live guinea pigs. This was just 2 years ago. The entire read is long but it's absolutely horrifying.

This is absolute nightmare fuel.
This just makes me even more against the death penalty (not that as a Canadian it's something we have here), as these convicts are being used as human chemistry labs and tortured in order to satisfy some antiquated system of punishment.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

Yet even if executions are not medical, they can affect medicine. Supplies of propofol, a widely used anesthetic, came close to being choked off as a result of Missouri's plan to use the drug for executions. The state corrections department placed an order for propofol from the U.S. distributor of a German drug manufacturer. The distributor sent 20 vials of the drug in violation of its agreement with the manufacturer, a mistake that the distributor quickly caught. As the company tried in vain to get the state to return the drug, the manufacturer suspended new orders. The manufacturer feared that if the drug was used for lethal injection, E.U. regulators would ban all exports of propofol to the U.S. “Please, Please, Please HELP,” wrote a vice president at the distributor to the director of the Missouri corrections department. “This system failure—a mistake—1 carton of 20 vials—is going to affect thousands of Americans.”

Let’s Stop Pretending the Death Penalty Is a Medical Procedure

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Good. Can't believe the death penalty is a thing in this century

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Early steps toward the end of the death penalty?

Most states have already planned to move to nitrogen gas executions if drugs become unavailable. Oklahoma approved it last year already.

 

[To Far Away Times]

My cousin was murdered in his parent's home after a break in and being jumped by three gang members. There was also a getaway driver waiting outside.

Three confessed. One challenged it in court but of course was ratted out by the other three. There is absolutely no doubt they did it.

I tend to think the world would be a better place if those people were no longer of this earth.

Wait until affects you, and you might view the death penalty differently. When there is no doubt with the verdict, I think the death penalty can be justified.

 

[Inflammable Slinky]

Nitrogen, you dummies.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Cool. Now lets abolish The Death Penalty.

 

[Team Filler]

My cousin was murdered in his parent's home after a break in and being jumped by three gang members. There was also a getaway driver waiting outside.

Three confessed. One challenged it in court but of course was ratted out by the other three. There is absolutely no doubt they did it.

I tend to think the world would be a better place if those people were no longer of this earth.

Wait until affects you, and you might view the death penalty differently. When there is no doubt with the verdict, I think the death penalty can be justified.

Regardless of how you might feel about a death penalty for heinous crimes committed, there is absolutely no defending the kind of willful incompetence described in the posted article from The Atlantic.

 

[Khaz]

Wait until affects you, and you might view the death penalty differently. When there is no doubt with the verdict, I think the death penalty can be justified.

This is exactly why justice isn't served by the victims. Blind Justice.

 

[gabbo]

My cousin was murdered in his parent's home after a break in and being jumped by three gang members. There was also a getaway driver waiting outside.

Three confessed. One challenged it in court but of course was ratted out by the other three. There is absolutely no doubt they did it.

I tend to think the world would be a better place if those people were no longer of this earth.

Wait until affects you, and you might view the death penalty differently. When there is no doubt with the verdict, I think the death penalty can be justified.

This is exactly what the criminal justice system should not be used to do.

 

[Obscura]

I don't often give props to big pharma, but good on ya, Pfizer.

.

As others have said, the states that want to legally murder prisoners will just go back to the chair or firing squad (are they legal in more than a state or two?).

 

[TsunamiOfSwagger]

From the article.

There had never been a question of Lockett’s guilt. Fifteen years earlier, on June 3, 1999, he had stood in a ravine and aimed a 12-gauge shotgun at Stephanie Neiman, a 19-year-old who had graduated from high school two weeks earlier. Lockett and two accomplices had beaten one of Neiman’s friends and raped another. Lockett told Neiman multiple times that he would kill her if she didn’t promise to keep quiet. He warned her one last time, but she insisted she would go to the police.

He pulled the trigger. The shot sent her spinning to the ground. The gun jammed; he cleared it and fired at her again. Then one of Lockett’s accomplices buried Neiman alive in a shallow grave, the dirt puffing up as she struggled to breathe, and they left her to die.

Sorry if I offended anyone by saying I'm not upset that this man suffered. Was it an inhumane way to die? Yes it was. Am I upset? Only for the family of the girl.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Why haven't any companies sprung up for the express purpose of creating lethal injection drug? Seems like an untapped market, so to speak.

I can understand large drug companies not wanting to be associated with killing people, but a company singley focused on lethal injection wouldn't have this problem.

 

[samn]

From the article.



Sorry if I offended anyone by saying I'm not upset that this man suffered. Was it an inhumane way to die? Yes it was. Am I upset? Only for the family of the girl.

Your emotions are irrelevant.

 

[Vicetrailia]

From the article.



Sorry if I offended anyone by saying I'm not upset that this man suffered. Was it an inhumane way to die? Yes it was. Am I upset? Only for the family of the girl.

I'm not upset that he suffered either, but going forward I'm ok with the death penalty being finished (it's not yet obviously).

It's not a deterrent. Actually non guilty people have died to it, and an eye for an eye revenge doesn't make it better. Thinking back to several situations it just satisfies an itch, which is so very miniscule.

 

[Alavard]

My cousin was murdered in his parent's home after a break in and being jumped by three gang members. There was also a getaway driver waiting outside.

Three confessed. One challenged it in court but of course was ratted out by the other three. There is absolutely no doubt they did it.

I tend to think the world would be a better place if those people were no longer of this earth.

Wait until affects you, and you might view the death penalty differently. When there is no doubt with the verdict, I think the death penalty can be justified.

China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Palestine, Yemen, Jordan, Afghanistan, Taiwan, Japan, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, The United Arab Emirates, Guinea, Sudan, Egypt, Somalia, North Korea, and the US. Those are the countries that used the death penalty in 2014. That's all of them. Think about the company the US keeps.

 

[surrealist]

Can't have prisoners being killed while they receive government sponsored health care.

 

[Moosichu]

Good, hopefully the US can stop executing its citizens going forward.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

While this is fantastic news, so long as other methods of execution exist, people will still die when they should not, and that is not on. Electrocuting people? Shooting them? Gas them? Fucking barbaric. It has no place in the world.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

My cousin was murdered in his parent's home after a break in and being jumped by three gang members. There was also a getaway driver waiting outside.

Three confessed. One challenged it in court but of course was ratted out by the other three. There is absolutely no doubt they did it.

I tend to think the world would be a better place if those people were no longer of this earth.

Wait until affects you, and you might view the death penalty differently. When there is no doubt with the verdict, I think the death penalty can be justified.

The purpose of the criminal justice system in a civilized nation is not vengeance.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

My cousin was murdered in his parent's home after a break in and being jumped by three gang members. There was also a getaway driver waiting outside.

Three confessed. One challenged it in court but of course was ratted out by the other three. There is absolutely no doubt they did it.

I tend to think the world would be a better place if those people were no longer of this earth.

Wait until affects you, and you might view the death penalty differently. When there is no doubt with the verdict, I think the death penalty can be justified.

So revenge will suddenly make it justice?

 

[Africanus]

My cousin was murdered in his parent's home after a break in and being jumped by three gang members. There was also a getaway driver waiting outside.

Three confessed. One challenged it in court but of course was ratted out by the other three. There is absolutely no doubt they did it.

I tend to think the world would be a better place if those people were no longer of this earth.

Wait until affects you, and you might view the death penalty differently. When there is no doubt with the verdict, I think the death penalty can be justified.

I'm sure your cousin's life was truly respected by your bloodlust.

 

[n64coder]

Nitrogen, you dummies.

I'm against the death penalty but if you have to have it, I would think that this or carbon monoxide would be better options. It seems that lethal injection is too complicated. Electrocution/hanging/firing squad is too messy and probably painful.

 

[Team Filler]

From the article.



Sorry if I offended anyone by saying I'm not upset that this man suffered. Was it an inhumane way to die? Yes it was. Am I upset? Only for the family of the girl.

You serious? The botched methods of executing Lockett and others is far more a reflection on us as a people than it is an act of justice. I mean, are you okay with drug research being conducted on death-row prisoners?

 

[Khaz]

I'm sure your cousin's life was truly respected by your bloodlust.

Now now, as a relative of the victim he has every right to be upset and ask for vengeance. It's only natural to feel pain and to wish bad things to the perpetrators.

And this is why justice need to be made by an impartial third party.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Palestine, Yemen, Jordan, Afghanistan, Taiwan, Japan, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, The United Arab Emirates, Guinea, Sudan, Egypt, Somalia, North Korea, and the US. Those are the countries that used the death penalty in 2014. That's all of them. Think about the company the US keeps.

Not quite.

...You forgot Pakistan! And Bangladesh. And Zimbabwe. And Qatar, Oman, Brunei, Thailand, Nigeria...

I'm sorry, this mistake invalidates your point about the company kept by the US... right?

(Nah but seriously the list is much bigger, but you are correct that outside of maybe Japan I can't say any of the countries on that list are company the US should ever keep when it comes to human rights...)

 

[TsunamiOfSwagger]

You serious? The botched methods of executing Lockett and others is far more a reflection on us as a people than it is an act of justice. I mean, are you okay with drug research being conducted on death-row prisoners?

Yes, it was a fuck up in how the execution was carried out.
No, I don't agree with research being carried out on prisoners.
I felt that the article and the comments that followed glossed over the crime that he committed. His victims death was reduced to two paragraphs of text, while his was a lot longer. To be fair, in an article about the horror of the death penalty, I get. The article is to induce a response from the reader.
Mine is -

Yes, the death sentence carried out was botched.
Yes, the prisoner suffered.
I feel for more for the victim than the murderer.
Will not lose any sleep about his death or how it was carried out.

I also get what people are posting about vengeance, "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind", as the saying goes.
The death penalty is a relic from a different era, one that should be removed.
It may come off as I am contradicting myself, I don't agree with the death penalty, yet I don't care about how he died. All I am saying is my sympathy goes to his victim, not the killer.

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

Yes, it was a fuck up in how the execution was carried out.
No, I don't agree with research being carried out on prisoners.
I felt that the article and the comments that followed glossed over the crime that he committed. His victims death was reduced to two paragraphs of text, while his was a lot longer. To be fair, in an article about the horror of the death penalty, I get. The article is to induce a response from the reader.
Mine is -

Yes, the death sentence carried out was botched.
Yes, the prisoner suffered.
I feel for more for the victim than the murderer.
Will not lose any sleep about his death or how it was carried out.

I also get what people are posting about vengeance, "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind", as the saying goes.
The death penalty is a relic from a different era, one that should be removed.
It may come off as I am contradicting myself, I don't agree with the death penalty, yet I don't care about how he died. All I am saying is my sympathy goes to his victim, not the killer.

In my opinion, it's fair to be against the Death Penalty in practice but being okay with it in principle. You can acknowledge the risk for executing the wrong man, the absurd cost of resources/time to carry it out, the racist underpinnings of our criminal justice system, or the methods employed, etc., and come to the conclusion that the death penalty, as it is constituted today, should not exist.

But that doesn't exactly invalidate having "death" as a form of punishment in theory.

 

[Madness]

Early steps toward the end of the death penalty? Probably to optimistic. Good on Pfizer

There will be Indian, Chinese, Thai, Iranian pharmaceutical companies chomping at the bit to supplant US or Western based pharmaceutical companies who won't supply lethal medicines.

If anything I can see many non US countries who still have the death penalty go back to electrocution or firing squads.

 

[Alavard]

Not quite.

...You forgot Pakistan! And Bangladesh. And Zimbabwe. And Qatar, Oman, Brunei, Thailand, Nigeria...

I'm sorry, this mistake invalidates your point about the company kept by the US... right?

(Nah but seriously the list is much bigger, but you are correct that outside of maybe Japan I can't say any of the countries on that list are company the US should ever keep when it comes to human rights...)

Whoops!

Sorry, I pulled up the wikipedia article, and apparently must have missed a whole table. Thank you for pointing out my error.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

(Nah but seriously the list is much bigger, but you are correct that outside of maybe Japan I can't say any of the countries on that list are company the US should ever keep when it comes to human rights...)

I'm not so sure about Japan either actually.
http://apjjf.org/-David-McNeill/2402/article.html

They avoid the problem of trying to get drugs for lethal injection by just hanging the condemned.

 

[The Faceless Master]

lets not forget how in the US, the death penalty is basically used as modern day lynching tool and is heavily weighted against minority criminals..

 

[Team Filler]

Yes, it was a fuck up in how the execution was carried out.
No, I don't agree with research being carried out on prisoners.
I felt that the article and the comments that followed glossed over the crime that he committed. His victims death was reduced to two paragraphs of text, while his was a lot longer. To be fair, in an article about the horror of the death penalty, I get. The article is to induce a response from the reader.
Mine is -

Yes, the death sentence carried out was botched.
Yes, the prisoner suffered.
I feel for more for the victim than the murderer.
Will not lose any sleep about his death or how it was carried out.

I also get what people are posting about vengeance, "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind", as the saying goes.
The death penalty is a relic from a different era, one that should be removed.
It may come off as I am contradicting myself, I don't agree with the death penalty, yet I don't care about how he died. All I am saying is my sympathy goes to his victim, not the killer.

I do agree that one mustn't forget about the victims, especially in circumstances such as the one in the article, and I myself am not against the idea of the death penalty where it concerns crimes of great violence by those who cannot or will not allow themselves to be rehabilitated. What I take issue with is how the death sentence is being carried out in these circumstances, not to mention how our justice system as it currently exists is weighted against minorities in many facets. Just within the last ten years or so, it feels like I've read several different stories of completely innocent people finding themselves imprisoned for decades before being exonerated of the crimes they were originally accused of having committed, and when digging into how they were convicted in the first place you find out that the prosecution was shady as fuck, or the DNA evidence was tainted, or the eyewitness testimony was rife with errors/inconsistencies.

 

[Foxix Von]

Won't stop overzealous states from doing the wrong thing and moving forward with turning death row inmates into live guinea pigs. This was just 2 years ago. The entire read is long but it's absolutely horrifying.

Fucking hell.

I have no words. This is insane.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

Life in solitary confinement is good enough.

 

[StrangeTaco]

Life in solitary confinement is good enough.

Which would fit under the umbrella of cruel and unusual punishment.

Though this is great news, hopefully in the near future we can abolish the death penalty in the US.

 

[Pancake Mix]

A reminder for everyone:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_country#Global_overview

I'm not sure about Mexico, but Canada left green territory in 1998, though it was originally abolished for almost all crimes in 1976 and hadn't been used since 1962.

1. Blue: Abolished for all crimes: 102 countries
   
2. Green: Abolished for all crimes except under exceptional/special circumstances (such as crimes committed in wartime): 6
   
3. Orange: Not used in practice (under a moratorium or have not used capital punishment in at least 10 years): 50
5. Red: Continue to use the death penalty in law and practice: 37

The company you keep....

 

[TsunamiOfSwagger]

I do agree that one mustn't forget about the victims, especially in circumstances such as the one in the article, and I myself am not against the idea of the death penalty where it concerns crimes of great violence by those who cannot or will not allow themselves to be rehabilitated. What I take issue with is how the death sentence is being carried out in these circumstances, not to mention how our justice system as it currently exists is weighted against minorities in many facets. Just within the last ten years or so, it feels like I've read several different stories of completely innocent people finding themselves imprisoned for decades before being exonerated of the crimes they were originally accused of having committed, and when digging into how they were convicted in the first place you find out that the prosecution was shady as fuck, or the DNA evidence was tainted, or the eyewitness testimony was rife with errors/inconsistencies.

I hear you. If the ultimate penalty for a crime is death, there needs to be 100% proof that the person committed the crime. Not a single shadow of a doubt.

 

[smurfx]

I hear you. If the ultimate penalty for a crime is death, there needs to be 100% proof that the person committed the crime. Not a single shadow of a doubt.

unfortunately that hasn't always been the case and innocent people will end up on death row. if even one innocent person ends up on death row then the death penalty is not worth it. lust for revenge shouldn't be getting innocent people killed.

 

[Ogodei]

All state GOP's have to do is cut the budget to public defender offices to raise enough money to put in a pot that will be too big for Pfizer to ignore. Two birds, one stone.

 

[Barzul]

Won't stop overzealous states from doing the wrong thing and moving forward with turning death row inmates into live guinea pigs. This was just 2 years ago. The entire read is long but it's absolutely horrifying.

read it all. Chilling article, terrible that this is still happening.

 

[Team Filler]

research shows, he believes, that the death penalty has a deterrent effect on crime.

You always know these people are so completely full of shit when they qualify their statements like this. Don't give me any "believes", "presumes", or "it's my understanding", and instead put some fucking hard science on the table to back your statement.

2. Good for Pfizer, even if this is about legally protecting itself from lawsuits.

Not that these companies aren't thinking about the bottom line with stuff like this, but I do think it's fair to point out that doctors employed with these companies might also take exception with any of their research done being used in such a manner.

 

[Huff]

I'd much rather die by the drugs that by electrocution or a firing squad

Prisoners are probably getting the raw deal out of this

 

[BibiMaghoo]

I'd much rather die by the drugs that by electrocution or a firing squad

Prisoners are probably getting the raw deal out of this

No one takes an hour to die from a firing squad. I'd take that personally. Being strapped to a table and injected with shit doesn't sound like a great way to go, neither does being electrocuted.

 

[Amir0x]

Since the death penalty doesn't work as a deterrent, costs more, and on top of that risks innocent lives, I'd rather we get this stain off our clothes and abolish it altogether. Shameful practice that diminishes all who support it.