Phil Spencer: "I know we have to take risks [after Scalebound cancellation],"
- Thread starter Alpha Phoenix
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maverick40
Junior Member
Butt what about "Good guy phil"?
I thought GAF thinks this guy is all about the gamers
I thought GAF thinks this guy is all about the gamers
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
I think a lot of it is timing.
Microsoft needs to stop releasing their 1st party games and 3rd party new IPs in the fall bloodbath.
Sony has already learned not to do this.
Titanfall did well, Ori did well, Quantum Break did just ok..ish. All games released in the non-holiday period. Though Quantum Break was disappointing which was more it's real issue. But both Titanfall and Ori are fantastic games released against little real competition and both did really well.
Duggie_Brown
Member
There was no need to continue this thread after this initial gif summed it all up perfectly. MS talk so much bull that any call for trust is like the old 'Cry Wolf' expression, you just end up ignoring it and let MS fall into their own doom.
you should try to read the PEOTUS tweets then.. he would be lucky to even be considered for a C in any tests.
I admire the candidness (?), but I don't think this is good thing of him to say. Either he's lying and it reinforces MS corporate bullshit, or it's genuine and he sort of confessed he has been sidelined by the bean counters and has little creative control over the company.
I guess he should have kept it as that was not shaping up in line with Xbox vision of quality or something.
I guess he should have kept it as that was not shaping up in line with Xbox vision of quality or something.
But I bet it sold well.
Triggerhappytel
Member
I agree with everything you've said, except about Quantum Break making a profit. For one thing, it looks like a very expensive game and I doubt Remedy are a cheap studio, and for another I'm pretty sure one of our insiders (I think maybe Matt with the Darkwing Duck avatar?) said it hadn't come close to making a profit, which I can definitely believe.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Speaking of 2014, this sudden change of mood in the entire debate is odd, isn't it?
Just two months ago, when MS won the fourth consecutive month in the US, Phil was praised for turning the tides.
Now he cancelled one game, and Phil is suddenly a failed prophet, and the entire division is doomed. Hell, you can even say right here on NeoGAF that the XBOX lineup is garbage. What would have resulted in a proper console/list war including bans on both sides six month ago seems to be widely accepted now and not even the die-hards can be bothered to defend it.
So, why not calm down a little and wait and see which aces the XBOX division has up their sleeves for 2017? Maybe it's worth the wait? We can still administer the last rites to Phil and his division if they screw up the Scorpio presentation.
Big problem for Phil here. With the large amount of recent failures, he will of lost confidence from his department heads and the board.
For Phil to greenlight a new game what they want to fund/develop, he can't just do that himself. He has to get the funding which requires approval from the devices head, which probably will require a business case to the board.
The problem is, with the games that have failed, they won't feel confident in his decisions and will require a water-tight case which has minimal risks.
If you think he has a lot of explaining to do for the gaming company, it'll be a lot more of that to his management above him. You can't make blunders like this.
For Phil to greenlight a new game what they want to fund/develop, he can't just do that himself. He has to get the funding which requires approval from the devices head, which probably will require a business case to the board.
The problem is, with the games that have failed, they won't feel confident in his decisions and will require a water-tight case which has minimal risks.
If you think he has a lot of explaining to do for the gaming company, it'll be a lot more of that to his management above him. You can't make blunders like this.
rochellepaws
Member
Interesting to hear him speak about diversity when Xbox have cultivated an audience that must be 90%+ western, english speakers. They've tanked hard across mainland Europe this gen and become a complete non-entity in Japan. It'll be difficult for any such risks to be financially viable for them when the market for non sports/shooty games is so much smaller to them than competitors.
Well considering the series of failures on the Xbox's part, all eyes are on Phil with gamers asking 'why'.
All I'll say is, this E3 is pivotal for the Xbox as well as how Spencer will be perceived therein.
Fresh off this Scalebound cancellation, he is facing the most flak he has ever had but if E3 is a bust then expect good guy Spencer will be no more.
Xbox and Spencer need a moment like this:
My dude, perfect gif
Salty Rice
Member
Dont say that so certain there were already rumors that Phil wants to cancel it before this week.
Announced E3 2017. Canceled 2018.
First post nails it.
anothertech
Member
You know, there's not many companies out there that would try to spin their biggest new ip cancelled as 'we need to take risk'
That's definitely some kinda gymnastics right there.
That's definitely some kinda gymnastics right there.
Like you point out - it was a poll on GAF.
Do you really think it was the most anticipate game for the average xbox consumer?
vonStirlitz
Unconfirmed Member
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Salty Rice
Member
What if you are wrong? Would you take that risk?
Back-In-Black
Banned
Yeah, you're probably right. I was basing that comment on MS nonsense PR that its sales met expectations. But, if you expect it not to return a profit then it sold within expectations. Still, my comment stands MS seems unwilling to cultivate new franchises or studios either you make bank initially or you're dead to them.
Clarkus Darkus
Member
Amazing the power shift, I was all 360 last gen, So was fine getting the X1 but they made that impossible upon release, So i got the PS4. And it clearly was the right choice because i never liked Forza games, And iv'e played enough Halo/Gears to not miss out.
It's a shame if anything so hopefully Scorpio can turn things around as the Xbox brand always was best when it had the most powerful console on the market.
They should buy the Dragons Dogma brand!
It's a shame if anything so hopefully Scorpio can turn things around as the Xbox brand always was best when it had the most powerful console on the market.
They should buy the Dragons Dogma brand!
Right, they'd dropped it almost a full year before the XBO came out. Gears: Judgement in March 2013, Halo 4/Forza Horizon in fall of 2012. Other than catching a surprise quality game in State of Decay as a mid-2013 XBLA they put out basically nothing worthwhile on the X360 for basically a year.
And that's giving them credit for the Halo/Forza/Gears trio just being represented. Alan Wake in March of 2010 and Crackdown 2 in June of th same year were the last times MS funded a major AAA release that wasn't Halo, Gears, Forza, or Fables, and that assumes you consider Alan Wake a major AAA title. Other than that they milk the shit out of a core group of IPs and sign some indie game already well on it's way to completion up as an XBLA pseudo-exclusive every now and then.
This is MS' routine with every console generation by the way. They roll out some new IPs to start each generation, if something isn't an immediate success they pack it up and go back to the core IPs, pulling basically all support once the next platform is on the horizon. Did it with the OG Xbox, did it with the X360. Starting to do it now on a mid-generation transition from XBO to Scorpio so they can pimp what for most Xbox owners will amount to bullshit video just so they can reclaim hardware "superiority".
I've been saying this for several years now. MS simply doesn't understand the role of first party studios and it shows.
While continuing to get destroyed outside the US and with Sony having a huge holiday season in the U.S. themselves. Still losing ground.
Kind of hit on it yourself there. Even the die-hards can't be bothered to defend it. Why? Because it pretty well is garbage if you aren't someone with a serious Halo/Gears/Forza itch to scratch. But Gears is day and date on PC and both it and Halo are no longer the undisputed #1 games at the top of their respective genres.
Their exclusive offerings are weak and unoriginal. People are beginning to accept that MS is either unwilling or unable to change that fact, Scalebound being the wish upon a star for something better.
Made even worse by Nier: Automata coming as a PS4/PC game with no XBO version in sight, also made by Platinum, with a recent PS4 demo that is exceptionally good for such a small snapshot of a game.
Because we know what they have for 2017. Halo Wars 2, State of Decay 2, Sea of Thieves, and Crackdown 3. All will likely be on PC as well. None are the kind of big new IP or reinvention of an IP you would like to see a first party studio bringing to the table.
Maybe they show something new for future years but at this point how can anyone really trust that? Scalebound was revealed at E3 2014 and is now dead in early 2017. They also showed Phantom Dust and Crackdown 3 at that same E3, both theoretically coming in 2017 as well, so a >3 year lead time on reveal to release. That with almost no real substance shown for either game recently, so who even knows what state they're in? They didn't even mention Phantom Dust in their PR release when cancelling Scalebound for example.
I'd say MS has dropped the ball, but this is the game they've always been playing. Their first party strategy is clearly to milk the big IPs and do just enough otherwise to not look too shameless in doing so.
CecilRousso
Member
Not sure that Scalebound fiasco can be blamed on MS alone, and if they had continued with it and it had been released as a crappy game, everyone would have held that against them and mocked them for it.
But they do have a problem with the output, and the lack of variety. If you like me don't care about Halo, Gears of War or Forza, there really isn't much interesting happening from them. E3 will be interesting, to see if they can do something about it.
But they do have a problem with the output, and the lack of variety. If you like me don't care about Halo, Gears of War or Forza, there really isn't much interesting happening from them. E3 will be interesting, to see if they can do something about it.
everthustodeadbeats
Member
I don't want to see this guy wear a tshirt tied to a game for a long long time.
I understand opinions and all of that but that was my impression too.
I only had a 360 last gen, and the firsts years were amazing: Gears, Lost Planet, Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, XBLA... lots of exclusive and varied games, even more then PS3 at that time.
But suddenly, IMO, MS said "that's it, we got what we wanted" and the first party output went for trying to be big and diverse to just recycling the trinity (Halo,Gears,Forza). Meanwhile I saw how the PS3, that started being shit, got a lot of nice exclusives. I totally felt left behind from MS.
That's why I changed ships from 360 to PS4.
It's unfortunate that Scalebound got cancelled (it was that game on the other console that I really wanted on mine) and maybe it wasn't their fault, but MS needs to really do something about their first party portfolio. One is in a better state than the latter years of 360 for sure, but far from the first amazing years IMO.
Maybe these games don't sell? Well yeah, maybe, so? Lots of Sony IP sold bad yet they're still trying.
E3 can only provide more promise. What will really be interesting to see is the delivery over the next year, two, three...over the longer run if MS can build trust in the promise they showcase at industry shows on the content front.
Some exciting promises might help sentiment a bit short term, but only consistent delivery and execution will banish wariness that people might have now. Trust problems - and I think that's what MS has now on this front - can't be fixed in one show
(I agree with others about Scalebound by the way...I feel it's just the straw that broke the sentiment's back, so to speak. On its own, it might have surprised some at MS that one cancellation could cause such a fuss, but it's just put the button on a lingering feeling that's been building)
Doesn't matter what they show when everyone thinks "better not get too hyped about this hype looking project since it could just get cancelled".
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
mate that's just PR 101 you're reading way too much into it, lol
Another major problem for MS is nobody is going to trust them when they announce a new IP at this point.
If it's not Halo/Gears/Forza then people will think it's in risk of getting canned. Even Crackdown has rumors swirling around it since they announced it years ago and we still know jackshit about it.
If it's not Halo/Gears/Forza then people will think it's in risk of getting canned. Even Crackdown has rumors swirling around it since they announced it years ago and we still know jackshit about it.
Zeuanimals
Member
Uhhh... You didn't exactly explain how these things were risks. And they don't exactly seem that risky to me so I might need some explanation on how BC is risky, especially for games made to work on one of the easiest consoles to work with, the 360, to make them work on an even easier console to work with, the Xbox One. Games not working as intended?
Same goes with the rest of it. Doesn't seem that risky unless something messes up, which they have, but the benefits far outweigh the negatives. Something I'd consider a real risk is something that could actually go either way and I don't see how those things can unless it's a lot harder than I think.
Perfect first post, thread should've ended there.
Do you even realize that 2 of the 4 IPs you named were not MS first or even second party?
FTFY.
But they were exclusives (well, Lost Planet got a late PS3 port, like a lot of supposed 360 exclusives). It's like Nier:A or Ni-Oh or wel, Scaleboud. It's about having varied and exclusive games for your console no matter who develops them.
Other than Lost Planet they were MS funded and published titles, i.e. 2nd party. Lost Planet was originally planned as an exclusive but went multi after Capcom tried to make it into a franchise.
AnthonypUK
Member
I've not really thought about it too much, but is Sea of Thieves the only, new IP that a current Microsoft first party studio have put out?
I know they did some at launch with some studios they then shut down.
I know they did some at launch with some studios they then shut down.
The Xbox needs exclusives now but Phil isn't going to magically pull an AAA title out of his ass in 2017. This is while the PS4's lineup is ridiculously stacked.
Zeuanimals
Member
They don't even need to create a new IP, just revive an old fan favorite. No need for intense world or lore building, general aesthetics and character designs just need some touch ups, etc. I don't know how long it'd take but 5 to 7 years? Probably not.
Caipirinha
Member
This whole thing seems weird.
I mean, Platinum are by most accounts really great developers, but sure, they aren't impervious to running into technical difficulties. I don't mean to summon the PS name in here, but take TLG as an example of facing a myriad of development difficulties head-on, and having it take a goddamn long time, but having the result be something special. Sure, the wait was hard, but a lot of people felt it to be worth it, and even though the final product isn't without blemish, at the very least it adds a lot to the PS brand to have it finally available.
Taking risks to me means helping support ambitious developers to bring quality work to your platform. If you run into problems, sure, do risk analysis, but also accept the losses sometimes; accept that what you bring out is going to take longer, and may not sell as much as you want, but it will reflect really well on your company in the long run as developers and innovators that really support their hardware.
MS aren't in the position where I feel they can do this and then announce they'll be risky in the future. Scalebound was sounding like a really great, ambitious, risky MP game -- kind of like Destiny was. Even that trainwreck got turned around.
I mean, Platinum are by most accounts really great developers, but sure, they aren't impervious to running into technical difficulties. I don't mean to summon the PS name in here, but take TLG as an example of facing a myriad of development difficulties head-on, and having it take a goddamn long time, but having the result be something special. Sure, the wait was hard, but a lot of people felt it to be worth it, and even though the final product isn't without blemish, at the very least it adds a lot to the PS brand to have it finally available.
Taking risks to me means helping support ambitious developers to bring quality work to your platform. If you run into problems, sure, do risk analysis, but also accept the losses sometimes; accept that what you bring out is going to take longer, and may not sell as much as you want, but it will reflect really well on your company in the long run as developers and innovators that really support their hardware.
MS aren't in the position where I feel they can do this and then announce they'll be risky in the future. Scalebound was sounding like a really great, ambitious, risky MP game -- kind of like Destiny was. Even that trainwreck got turned around.
I was actually referring to LP (which afaik is a third party IP) and Gears, I honestly didn't know the first Gears was funded by MS, I stand corrected if so.
Peroroncino
Member
Phil started out great, but most of the successful or fresh projects were still from Mattrick's era, so far Phil only feels like a hatchet man.
And yes, he's absolutely right, those words sound very hollow after cancelling SB.
And yes, he's absolutely right, those words sound very hollow after cancelling SB.
That is only true for certain definitions of GAF.
Are you telling me that mods and early access, two of the biggest successes of Steam, are risky? Also backwards compatibility, a feature that they've had on pretty much every of their consoles, a feature that Nintendo almost always has and even Sony has sometimes done? Are you just redefining risk to be "thing that others have already done several times and have seen success with"?
Bitch Pudding
Member
I know, right? And a single post from a well-known and credible Gaffer was enough to convince everyone, including myself, that they don't have any major other/unknown game in production right now.
Still, maybe they still have something up their sleeves. Maybe a $399 Scorpio, maybe a money-hatted 3rd party game, or maybe some early announcements for 2018+ games, or "just" Minecraft VR exclusive for Scorpio.
I am not saying I am optimistic in this regard, things are not looking good right now. All I am saying is there's life in the old dog yet.
wants to take risks....cancels scalebound...and fable...and phantomdust
talks about internal studio's being critical...closes most of them
spencer is all talk and always has been imo. what he did for the xbox brand after mattrick, anyone could have done and been revered for it, just do the opposite and you've fixed most of the issues. he isn't special, or the savior of the brand. he's just a guy making OBVIOUS reactionary decisions based on consumer backlash, and making false promises about stuff to sell his plastic box.
if you want to take risks, stop talking about it and do it.
if you want to expand your internal studio's, do it, stop shuttering them just because the sales of one game were lower than expected.
talks about internal studio's being critical...closes most of them
spencer is all talk and always has been imo. what he did for the xbox brand after mattrick, anyone could have done and been revered for it, just do the opposite and you've fixed most of the issues. he isn't special, or the savior of the brand. he's just a guy making OBVIOUS reactionary decisions based on consumer backlash, and making false promises about stuff to sell his plastic box.
if you want to take risks, stop talking about it and do it.
if you want to expand your internal studio's, do it, stop shuttering them just because the sales of one game were lower than expected.
badnewsbeers
Member
Strictly speaking as a business, why does everyone believe they cancelled this amazing game just because? Doesn't it make a lot more sense that it was awful and remaining that way with no visible way out? I mean my god. All these people want to do is make piles of money and pissing off their fans and burning millions of dollars goes against that in a big way. Obviously they had no other choice.
wapplew
Member
Phil Spencer don't like those deal, I think you are save.
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