Support NeoGAF

[Banjo64]

Yesterday I saw something on social media pertaining to the defence of Phil Spencer and the Starfield and redfall delay that blew my mind.

An "XBOX ambassador" stated that.



And in a strange turn of events it's revealed that this person isn't an actual gamer. She admits to preferring to watch someone else game. But what blew my fucking mind is that from following this thread, it was revealed to me that there is a slew of these types of accounts/people who don't actually game but get paid upto 50K and all of them are seemingly in unison telling, telling us XBOX gamers that we need to wait.

I didn't know this type of shit existed! Non gamers essentially telling actual gamers to "Shut up and wait." And being paid money to do so. That's underhanded right?

It made me sick to my stomach to see the hobby I care about be infiltrated by these types who are paid to push corporate damage control while pretending to be gamers. Kinda makes my skin crawl, kinda.

Oh fuck we’ve gone from ‘think of muh devs’ to ‘think of muh CEO’

Why is it never ‘think of the customer’ with these twats?

Oh wait, never mind, I can see above that she’s bought and paid for.

 

[Lognor]

Are you all just now finding out about the ambassador program? Microsoft has done this since the OG Xbox days, I believe. My friend in college was a part of it.

Sony probably does something similar. And if not, there are just some really sad PS fans on twitter. You all have seen those tweets.

 

[Yoboman]

Wait till you guys realise hear how companies pad out conference audiences with fake cheers squads

 

[dotnotbot]

Wait till you guys realise hear how companies pad out conference audiences with fake cheers squads

I wouldn't say those 2 things are remotely comparable.

 

[IFireflyl]

I’m sure you’re familiar with organisational structures and org charts based on your insights. They are a quintessential hierarchy’s like a family tree.

You yourself have qualified Leder reports directly to Spencer.

However, Xbox Game Studios reports to Booty. It doesn’t add up in such a hierarchy, and certainly makes little logistical sense for it to sit there if it is not reporting to that sections leadership. If it is sitting there, it would just be tokenism for outward PR presentation would you not agree?

When the deal went through, it was stated Bathesda will be a seperate business unit under MS. Again there is conflation here of PR & marketing with the actual corp structure reality.

Not dissimilar to Sony purchasing Bungie, not PlayStation.

You're hyper-focused on hierarchy and you're making stuff up that sounds good to you with absolutely no evidence to support your claims. There is no P.R. spin needed by Microsoft regarding what umbrella Bethesda is under. They are under Xbox Game Studios as that is the ONLY Microsoft branch for console game developer/publisher acquisitions to go under.

Again, the Microsoft Gaming Division has several branches to it, one of which is their console studios, and another of which is hardware (console R&D, sales, and warranty). Zenimax itself reports directly to Phil Spencer ONLY because Zenimax doesn't just have console games. There are also handheld/mobile games owned by Zenimax, and it would make sense that the Zenimax president would want to be able to contact one person for everything in their portfolio instead of having multiple different escalation points depending on which product they are needing to go up the chain with. This is not unusual.

There is no other branch for the Bethesda studio to reside other than Xbox Game Studios, and this is plastered all over the Xbox website. Bethesda is under the Xbox Game Studios umbrella. Full stop.

Also this is found on the Bethesda website:

Today we announced we’re joining the Microsoft family (press release below).​

And if you haven’t had a chance to read what Phil Spencer and Todd Howard shared in their posts this morning, be sure to check them both out.

Source:

Why Microsoft Is the Perfect Fit

Today we announced we’re joining the Microsoft family...

bethesda.net

The two links (Phil Spencer and Todd Howard's names) are showing an Xbox website and a Bethesda website that are are welcoming Bethesda to Xbox, not to Microsoft. If they were not under the Xbox Game Studios division then both sides would have just said Microsoft Gaming Division or something to that effect.

An even better source straight from Bethesda:

Today marks the beginning of a new chapter for Bethesda Softworks as part of the Xbox Team at Microsoft.

Source: https://bethesda.net/en/article/193piE646914YSCGpeYxGC/bethesda-xbox-just-getting-started

And an identical statement from Phil Spencer:

It’s an honor to welcome the eight incredibly talented development studios – Bethesda Game Studios, id Software, ZeniMax Online Studios, Arkane, MachineGames, Tango Gameworks, Alpha Dog, and Roundhouse Studios – and their passionate global communities to the Xbox family.

Source:

Officially Welcoming Bethesda to Team Xbox - Xbox Wire

Publisher of iconic gaming franchises will expand Xbox’s diverse portfolio on Xbox Game Pass This is an exciting day for Xbox. Today we officially complete the acquisition of ZeniMax Media, parent company of Bethesda Softworks. It’s an honor to welcome the eight incredibly talented development...

news.xbox.com

 

[DarkMage619]

Yes, there are thousands out there shilling for socks and sweepstakes entries.

Same argument as always. 'Only Nintendo and Sony fans are REAL gamers.' MS pays people to like Xbox! Probably best to not hurt yourself rolling your eyes.

 

[kingfey]

Wait till you guys realise hear how companies pad out conference audiences with fake cheers squads

Don't leave out the loyal customer, who used to be a long fan, and is happy about the conference.

Nothing is real at this point.

 

[Yoboman]

I wouldn't say those 2 things are remotely comparable.

It's all deceptive

 

[Shmunter]

You're hyper-focused on hierarchy and you're making stuff up that sounds good to you with absolutely no evidence to support your claims. There is no P.R. spin needed by Microsoft regarding what umbrella Bethesda is under. They are under Xbox Game Studios as that is the ONLY Microsoft branch for console game developer/publisher acquisitions to go under.

Again, the Microsoft Gaming Division has several branches to it, one of which is their console studios, and another of which is hardware (console R&D, sales, and warranty). Zenimax itself reports directly to Phil Spencer ONLY because Zenimax doesn't just have console games. There are also handheld/mobile games owned by Zenimax, and it would make sense that the Zenimax president would want to be able to contact one person for everything in their portfolio instead of having multiple different escalation points depending on which product they are needing to go up the chain with. This is not unusual.

There is no other branch for the Bethesda studio to reside other than Xbox Game Studios, and this is plastered all over the Xbox website. Bethesda is under the Xbox Game Studios umbrella. Full stop.

Seems like a lot of assumptions filling in the gaps on your behalf. Come back with some proof and maybe your wild theories can take on a new light. Till then, denied.

 

[IFireflyl]

Seems like a lot of assumptions filling in the gaps on your behalf. Come back with some proof and maybe your wild theories can take on a new light. Till then, denied.

Edited my post with proof. And you're the one making all of the assumptions.

 

[JackMcGunns]

Every year it's a different apology with this guy

You're right, he shouldn't be apologizing, it would be better if he said something smug like:

"The new generation of Bethesda games will launch when we say they do"

 

[Shmunter]

Edited my post with proof. And you're the one making all of the assumptions.

I see where you’re going wrong. Phill was head of Xbox back then, things have been restructured post acquisition. Feel free to Google the org chart, the one with the pronouns front and centre even.

 

[IFireflyl]

I see where you’re going wrong. Phill was head of Xbox back then, things have been restructured post acquisition. Feel free to Google the org chart, the one with the pronouns front and centre even.

I'm not the one "going wrong". When Phil got promoted that didn't drag Bethesda somewhere else. What business does that? That's ridiculous and stupid. Either provide evidence that Bethesda moved away from the Xbox division or shut your mouth. You're making shit up and ignoring evidence. This is stupidly tiresome.

 

[Shmunter]

I'm not the one "going wrong". When Phil got promoted that didn't drag Bethesda somewhere else. What business does that? That's ridiculous and stupid. Either provide evidence that Bethesda moved away from the Xbox division or shut your mouth. You're making shit up and ignoring evidence. This is stupidly tiresome.

I asked you for the evidence and your reply is for me to provide evidence. Pleees, you got nothing and know even less just admit it.

 

[IFireflyl]

I asked you for the evidence and your reply is for me to provide evidence. Pleees, you got nothing and know even less just admit it.

I provided all of the evidence already. You're now claiming that Bethesda moved away from Xbox, not that they were never a part of Xbox in the first place. How the hell am I supposed to prove something doesn't exist? There is literally nothing that supports your claim that Bethesda moved out of the Xbox umbrella. If I'm wrong then it's on you to provide evidence for that as it isn't possible for me to prove that something doesn't exist. Think before you post.

 

[Dontkidyourselfjimmy]

We should have a captcha system built in so that you have to show your feet before you're allowed to say something positive about Xbox on here. Never know what kind of socks you might be wearing. You could be subjected to unnecessary positivity if you're not careful. Remain vigilant everyone.

Ok Dan Schneider

 

[Kssio_Aug]

You didn't know about this? This is the official Xbox Ambassador program -- you can sign up here. For full disclaimer, I do not support initiatives like this.

This program offers "missions" to ambassadors who then get rewarded to complete those "missions" on the internet. Here is an example of what the inside of the program looks like.

They also have special campaigns during "E3 time" (which is pretty much this time of the year). The primary objective is to increase online chatter and engagement (and basically rewarding people for doing that). As you can see below, it specifically rewards people for "taking 5 chats per day".

In action:



Here is a public list of some of the rewards that this program offers.

Based on the grapevine I've heard, a large majority of the rewards are now in the shape of Gamepass coupons.

The Tweet you shared above is from an Xbox Ambassador. You can also see other tweets by her (and from other Xbox Ambassadors) that use the same marketing language that Xbox uses to promote their brand. The idea is to use the same messaging and gain mindshare.

Here is an example. See the highlighted phrase.

Now check this Tweet.



This is basically advertisement from people who get paid in kind to advertise, but they aren't seen as employees of a company, but rather gamers like we are. Some people call it just a fair marketing tactic; I do not agree with that. I believe it's not ethical to have a system like this one in place.

More fair disclaimer: I do not boycott a company because of this. I still like and purchase and play some of the Xbox games on PC, despite this, but this leaves a bitter taste for me, and I am just more cautious of Xbox's marketing campaigns whenever I see one. I hope no other company is doing this. I like Sony and Nintendo for their games, but if they are also involved in programs like this, I'll have the same stand against them. I believe that fellow gamers are more important than protecting corporates, and programs like these have the potential to affect the gamers community and the mindshare in a sneak, unethical way.

So you're telling me that Xbox fanboys are advertising Xbox on social media for socks, while Sony fanboys do it for free?

 

[Shmunter]

I provided all of the evidence already. You're now claiming that Bethesda moved away from Xbox, not that they were never a part of Xbox in the first place. How the hell am I supposed to prove something doesn't exist? There is literally nothing that supports your claim that Bethesda moved out of the Xbox umbrella. If I'm wrong then it's on you to provide evidence for that as it isn't possible for me to prove that something doesn't exist. Think before you post.

Are you genuinely trying to convince me you actually bother reading or are capable to comprehend things before making self imposed claims…simple Google beyond the surface level PR……derrrp. Now go pickup your toys and go to bed child.

This is the actual post acquisition info, not initial gaming media jumping on Xbox news…

Microsoft completes Bethesda acquisition, promises some Xbox and PC exclusives

Microsoft’s first-party studios list jumps to 23 with this deal.

www.theverge.com

“Bethesda will now be run as a separate business at Microsoft, with its existing leadership. This is the same approach Microsoft has used for its recent big acquisitions, including Mojang, LinkedIn, and GitHub.”

Microsoft's ZeniMax Acquisition Officially Complete, Bethesda Now a Part of Xbox - IGN

Xbox officially acquires ZeniMax Media, which includes studios like Bethesda, id Software, Arkane, MachineGames, and more – and confirms some games will be exclusive.

www.ign.com

“Spencer reiterated that Microsoft would allow Bethesda to continue "making games the way it always has", and it's worth pointing out that neither Xbox nor Bethesda mention Xbox Game Studios in their releases about the acquisition. That perhaps points to Bethesda working under a different umbrella to Microsoft's other first-party studios. To help manage this new acquisition, Xbox has seemingly set up a new company called Vault – that could be the new brand for Bethesda games made under Xbox.”

 

[Slicker than your average]

Is Phil sure he can hear the feedback? I remember him warring saying he couldn't hear over the PS4 jet engine.

 

[Hendrick's]

Is that really all you got from that post? Or is that a very feeble attempt to deflect the topic?

Downplaying this, leaving an "empathy" emoji on that post (don't know what that event meant), and now blaming others for receiving compensation from Sony: doing everything to defend a corporation except saying that it's wrong. Why is that?

Or do you think this is perfectly ethical and moral by Microsoft? If you don't think it's moral and ethical, can you at least condemn it publicly?

EDIT: And for your kind information:

P.S. And I think the girl on the right is the same one who tweeted yesterday

Yes, I see no issue with the ambassador program. If you bothered to look into it, there is nothing insidious about it, and the awards are so small that it is ridiculous to say these are "paid" spokespeople.

 

[IFireflyl]

Are you genuinely trying to convince me you actually bother reading or are capaable to comprehend things before making self imposed claims…simple Google beyond the surface level PR……derrrp. Now go pickup your toys and go to bed child.

This is the actual post acquisition info, not initial gaming media jumping on Xbox news…

Microsoft completes Bethesda acquisition, promises some Xbox and PC exclusives

Microsoft’s first-party studios list jumps to 23 with this deal.

www.theverge.com

“Bethesda will now be run as a separate business at Microsoft, with its existing leadership. This is the same approach Microsoft has used for its recent big acquisitions, including Mojang, LinkedIn, and GitHub.”

Microsoft's ZeniMax Acquisition Officially Complete, Bethesda Now a Part of Xbox - IGN

Xbox officially acquires ZeniMax Media, which includes studios like Bethesda, id Software, Arkane, MachineGames, and more – and confirms some games will be exclusive.

www.ign.com

“Spencer reiterated that Microsoft would allow Bethesda to continue "making games the way it always has", and it's worth pointing out that neither Xbox nor Bethesda mention Xbox Game Studios in their releases about the acquisition. That perhaps points to Bethesda working under a different umbrella to Microsoft's other first-party studios. To help manage this new acquisition, Xbox has seemingly set up a new company called Vault – that could be the new brand for Bethesda games made under Xbox.”

Spare me your condescending bullshit. I didn't link third-party media sites. I linked Bethesda and Microsoft sites. Based on the above it sounds like Xbox Game Studios and Bethesda work side-by-side instead of Bethesda being under the Xbox Game Studios umbrella. That still doesn't mean they aren't an Xbox studio, but I don't know for sure how they're allocated at this point.

I can admit that it appears I'm wrong about Bethesda being under the Xbox Game Studios umbrella, but you have to see how you are one of the WORST people to have a discussion with since you make claims and demand other people find evidence to disprove you instead of providing the evidence that proves your claims from the start. You could have simplified pages of discussion by just providing a source for your claims instead of telling people to find a source countering your claim (which we did, but it was apparently outdated information). If this is the way you discuss things then I don't want to be a part of future communications with you.

 

[Shmunter]

Spare me your condescending bullshit. I didn't link third-party media sites. I linked Bethesda and Microsoft sites. Based on the above it sounds like Xbox Game Studios and Bethesda work side-by-side instead of Bethesda being under the Xbox Game Studios umbrella. That still doesn't mean they aren't an Xbox studio, but I don't know for sure how they're allocated at this point.

I can admit that it appears I'm wrong about Bethesda being under the Xbox Game Studios umbrella, but you have to see how you are one of the WORST people to have a discussion with since you make claims and demand other people find evidence to disprove you instead of providing the evidence that proves your claims from the start. You could have simplified pages of discussion by just providing a source for your claims instead of telling people to find a source countering your claim (which we did, but it was apparently outdated information). If this is the way you discuss things then I don't want to be a part of future communications with you.

Oh so now you admit it after telling me to “shut my mouth”. Everything was perfectly ameanable till you lost your shit like a child. I never concluded one way or another, I left it open with you insisting on it being one way so show it.

The irony of your conduct.

 

[IFireflyl]

Oh so now you admit it after telling me to “shut my mouth”. Everything was perfectly ameanable till you lost your shit like a child. I never concluded one way or another, I left it open with you insisting on it being one way so show it.

The irony of your conduct.

I said provide evidence or shut your mouth. You're a troll.

 

[sircaw]

I said provide evidence or shut your mouth. You're a troll.

i will say this, this convo is getting a bit too aggressive and personal now and people need to chill.

If I don't see some Kumbaya love in the next few posts i am going to start going postal on Hendrick's and kingfey ,

Don't make me hurt them , AGAIN

 

[Pelta88]

This guy was an ambassador and was critical of the Starfield delay. Guess what happened

 

[Hendrick's]

This guy was an ambassador and was critical of the Starfield delay. Guess what happened

You have no idea why he was removed. Highly doubt it was because of being critical of the SF delay.

Also, look who chimed in.

 

[Shmunter]

This guy was an ambassador and was critical of the Starfield delay. Guess what happened

Not all that surprising, an Ambassador by definition is an official representative. Negative representation is not part of the picture. It’s an army of shills as distasteful as it may be, and only useful as such.

 

[GHG]

Sick burn dude.

It's ok, I'll admit it, you were right. There aren't thousands out there shilling for socks and sweepstakes.

There are in fact hundreds of thousands.

 

[Klayzer]

It's ok, I'll admit it, you were right. There aren't thousands out there shilling for socks and sweepstakes.

There are in fact hundreds of thousands.

Not that difficult to tell who's a paid plant shill, versus a regular gamer.

 

[Hendrick's]

It's ok, I'll admit it, you were right. There aren't thousands out there shilling for socks and sweepstakes.

There are in fact hundreds of thousands.

Better then shilling for free like yourself.

 

[Three]

Better then shilling for free like yourself.

There is a difference to playing games and sincerely talking about them vs people who shill for a rewards program and don't actually game.

 

[GHG]

Better then shilling for free like yourself.

 

[Hendrick's]

Is that Jim Ryan?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Better then shilling for free like yourself.

This guy was an ambassador and was critical of the Starfield delay. Guess what happened

 

[EverydayBeast]

I don’t want delays it may take a year or more for those games to come out.

 

[kingfey]

i will say this, this convo is getting a bit too aggressive and personal now and people need to chill.

If I don't see some Kumbaya love in the next few posts i am going to start going postal on Hendrick's and kingfey ,

Don't make me hurt them , AGAIN

 

[Hobbygaming]

There has been a continual trend of fanboys getting owned this gen when jumping onto something for a console win.
In keeping with that trend I now fully expect God of War to be delayed until next year as well, just to smack the Sony fanboys using the delays of Starfield and Redfall to make fun of Xbox.

A God of War delay wouldn't sting as bad though seeing how there's been other PS releases

 

[Loope]

We have so many of them in this forum. I thought it was clear as day.

uuuufff thank god it's only MS shills, shills everywhere. Xbox one's that is. The green rats.

 

[Pelta88]

Good vid on this ambassador debacle!

 

[sendit]

You're right, he shouldn't be apologizing, it would be better if he said something smug like:

"The new generation of Bethesda games will launch when we say they do"

Didn't the PS3 launch on time? It's been awhile so I don't remember if there was a delay.

 

[Kilau]

Shit, I am an Xbox Ambassador but I missed the check box to get paid.

 

[SportsFan581]

it was revealed to me that there is a slew of these types of accounts/people who don't actually game but get paid upto 50K and all of them are seemingly in unison telling, telling us XBOX gamers that we need to wait.

Do you have a link, asking for a friend?

By the way it's a privilege to wait for Starfield. Starfield is going to be the best thing going and the best things come to those that wait!

Also, is there anything we can do but wait for it? Or is there a plan to steal a build from Bethesda?

 

[kingfey]

Yesterday I saw something on social media pertaining to the defence of Phil Spencer and the Starfield and redfall delay that blew my mind.

An "XBOX ambassador" stated that.



And in a strange turn of events it's revealed that this person isn't an actual gamer. She admits to preferring to watch someone else game. But what blew my fucking mind is that from following this thread, it was revealed to me that there is a slew of these types of accounts/people who don't actually game but get paid upto 50K and all of them are seemingly in unison telling, telling us XBOX gamers that we need to wait.

I didn't know this type of shit existed! Non gamers essentially telling actual gamers to "Shut up and wait." And being paid money to do so. That's underhanded right?

It made me sick to my stomach to see the hobby I care about be infiltrated by these types who are paid to push corporate damage control while pretending to be gamers. Kinda makes my skin crawl, kinda.

Ok. That twitter is creeping me out.

I respect phil for what he has done, but going that far is fucking no no no no.

They have money to hire 3rd party devs to make games for them. Or even fucking pay timed exclusive for big games. How fucking hard is that?

Sony literally paid timed exclusive for FF7R. Why cant MS do that too?

Sorry Phil, but that is on you.

I am giving them benefits of doubt until this showcase. If they dont show anything, then they can eat a turd.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Frankly. Halo shoulda been delayed as well

Imagine if Halo Infinite released looking like that SlipSpace engine trailer with every mode from the previous Halo games

 

[Pedro Motta]

Is Stevivor also an Xbox Ambassador?

 

[MasterCornholio]

Ok. That twitter is creeping me out.

I respect phil for what he has done, but going that far is fucking no no no no.

They have money to hire 3rd party devs to make games for them. Or even fucking pay timed exclusive for big games. How fucking hard is that?

Sony literally paid timed exclusive for FF7R. Why cant MS do that too?

Sorry Phil, but that is on you.

I am giving them benefits of doubt until this showcase. If they dont show anything, then they can eat a turd.

Microsoft can still pay for timed exclusives but lately they are known for their acquisitions. So yes they are doing those types of things.

 

[Hendrick's]

There is a difference to playing games and sincerely talking about them vs people who shill for a rewards program and don't actually game.

You think that's what goes on here? I see plenty of shills that spend all their time trashing Xbox when they have no desire to game there. How is that being sincere?

 

[kingfey]

Microsoft can still pay for timed exclusives but lately they are known for their acquisitions. So yes they are doing those types of things.

Those timed exclusives would have saved them now.

 

[SlimySnake]

Yesterday I saw something on social media pertaining to the defence of Phil Spencer and the Starfield and redfall delay that blew my mind.

An "XBOX ambassador" stated that.



And in a strange turn of events it's revealed that this person isn't an actual gamer. She admits to preferring to watch someone else game. But what blew my fucking mind is that from following this thread, it was revealed to me that there is a slew of these types of accounts/people who don't actually game but get paid upto 50K and all of them are seemingly in unison telling, telling us XBOX gamers that we need to wait.

I didn't know this type of shit existed! Non gamers essentially telling actual gamers to "Shut up and wait." And being paid money to do so. That's underhanded right?

It made me sick to my stomach to see the hobby I care about be infiltrated by these types who are paid to push corporate damage control while pretending to be gamers. Kinda makes my skin crawl, kinda.

This isnt new. Microsoft is known for funding astroturfers. I remember some gaf mod once talking about purging a bunch of accounts back in the 360 days. They are far more open now and have these guys called Xbox MVPs. Judge, the infamous era mod, is an Xbox MVP. I didnt know they got paid $50k but i know they were getting some perks and being flown around by Microsoft.

Xbox Ambassadors

Xbox Ambassadors are on a quest to make gaming fun for everyone. Join today and begin to level up for being a positive and welcoming gamer on Xbox.

mvp.xbox.com

Xbox MVPs are community leaders who’ve demonstrated an exemplary commitment to helping others get the most out of their experience with Xbox products and services. They share their passion, knowledge, and expertise with Xbox and the community while encouraging others to do the same.

Id be more worried about the xbox ambassadors and MVPs who arent official. I know if they paid me even $25k, id stan for Phil Spencer all day everyday.

Couldnt pay me to defend Jim Ryan though.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Those timed exclusives would have saved them now.

They don’t need saving. That one delay won’t destroy them.