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[Walshicus]

So you're saying that if you're attacked, you're free to respond? So that gives any terrorist attack against Western military targets, in their home countries, legitimacy?

Military targets? Quite often yes, groups we in the West have bombed or occupied or otherwise oppressed have legitimate claims to using force to try and defend their interests. We may not like it, but there it is.

Fact is, Turkey is in the wrong every day it doesn't allow Kurds to split. They're as wrong as we English were in keeping Ireland slaved to us.

I'm surprised we have people defending *Turkey* here...

 

[dakun]

Fact is, Turkey is in the wrong every day it doesn't allow Kurds to split. They're as wrong as we English were in keeping Ireland slaved to us.

I'm surprised we have people defending *Turkey* here...

this is as ridiculous as posts on Gaf can get. You obviously know nothing about what's going on inside Turkey. Kurds aren't a group of people confined to one part of the country that Turkey keeps hostage.
It's the PKK that wants to split and for years has made that point through violence and terrorism. Most Kurds are perfectly happy living in Turkey, they just want to be treated better than they were throughout the years.

 

[Walshicus]

this is as ridiculous as posts on Gaf can get. You obviously know nothing about what's going on inside Turkey. Kurds aren't a group of people confined to one part of the country that Turkey keeps hostage.
It's the PKK that wants to split and for years has made that point through violence and terrorism. Most Kurds are perfectly happy living in Turkey, they just want to be treated better than they were throughout the years.

Bullshit.

Hold a referendum if you think Kurds just love being a part of Turkey.

 

[dakun]

Bullshit.

Hold a referendum if you think Kurds just love being a part of Turkey.

no they don't "love" it because for years they have been treated like shit..
but ask them if they would all go to a potential Kurdistan on the boarder of Iraq and Turkey and you'd hear a clear no.. they want to be part of Turkey. Just about none of them want to live in the middle of nowhere called Kurdistan with the PKK ruling the land. And those that live there already know the bloodshed that would ensue if you forced the Turkish population out of the land.

but keep being the armchair expert on this. I'll chuckle along.

 

[Walshicus]

no they don't "love" it because for years they have been treated like shit..

but ask them if they would all go to a potential Kurdistan on the boarder of Iraq and Turkey and you'd hear a clear no.. they want to be part of Turkey.

I love how this notion is both hilarious and tragic.


Hold the referendum, see what happens. A lot of Turks would have their inflated view of Turkey's attraction shattered.

 

[dakun]

I love how this notion is both hilarious and tragic.


Hold the referendum, see what happens. A lot of Turks would have their inflated view of Turkey's attraction shattered.

who is talking about Turkey's attraction? lol i'm calling you on your bullshit that Turkey is simply holding Kurds hostage. Kurds are a huge part of Turkey and always will be..
If you think that the solution to all this is as simply as cutting away part of Turkey and leaving millions of Turks that live there to the mercy of the PKK you are crazy and/or incredibly uninformed.

You seriously think the 2+ millions Kurds in Istanbul and millions in the other big cities in the west would simply pack their bags ask for a Kurdish pass and go to Kurdistan? I can tell you right now that won't happen
Kurds are way too interwoven into Turkey for a separation of Turkey into a Kurdistan to happen without a huge war inside the nation that benefits no one.

 

[Canis lupus]

Military targets? Quite often yes, groups we in the West have bombed or occupied or otherwise oppressed have legitimate claims to using force to try and defend their interests. We may not like it, but there it is.

Fact is, Turkey is in the wrong every day it doesn't allow Kurds to split. They're as wrong as we English were in keeping Ireland slaved to us.

I'm surprised we have people defending *Turkey* here...

You don't even know who "Kurds" are. The ones supporting PKK terrorism are in the minority, terrorists don't have any legitimacy to represent the Kurds. The Turkish govt itself consists of many Kurds and it is best buddies with the KRG and we have HDP in parliament, though they're losing votes due to their stance on terror.

As long as PKK terrorism exist, there won't be peace. Lay down your arms and talk. Violence doesn't solve anything, now tons of Turks are enlisting to fight terror.

The best thing for the region is a strong Turkey that unites the entire Middle East and gives the multiple nations autonomy, like before it was 100 years ago. Since the imperialist English balkanized and colonized the region it turned into a shithole with sectarian and religious violence since the breakup. No more Balkanization, the region should and will unite.

who is talking about Turkey's attraction? lol i'm calling you on your bullshit that Turkey is simply holding Kurds hostage. Kurds are a huge part of Turkey and always will be..
If you think that the solution to all this is as simply as cutting away part of Turkey and leaving millions of Turks that live there to the mercy of the PKK you are crazy and/or incredibly uninformed.

You seriously think the 2+ millions Kurds in Istanbul and millions in the other big cities in the west would simply pack their bags ask for a Kurdish pass and go to Kurdistan? I can tell you right now that won't happen
Kurds are way too interwoven into Turkey for a separation of Turkey into a Kurdistan to happen without a huge war inside the nation that benefits no one.

You can't blame him for not knowing anything about the country, the Western media make it seem like Turkey is waging a war on Kurds and not on terrorists who kill their servicemen, when the govt of Turkey that wages that war has elected tons of Kurdish MP's.

 

[jakonovski]

The best thing for the region is a strong Turkey that unites the entire Middle East and gives the multiple nations autonomy, like before it was 100 years ago.

See now this is where it falls apart, comical nationalism with delusions of reinstating lost empirehood will never achieve anything.

 

[dakun]

The best thing for the region is a strong Turkey that unites the entire Middle East and gives the multiple nations autonomy, like before it was 100 years ago. Since the imperialist English balkanized and colonized the region it turned into a shithole with sectarian and religious violence since the breakup. No more Balkanization, the region should and will unite.

no we really don't need another Ottoman Empire.

 

[Canis lupus]

no we really don't need another Ottoman Empire.

Indeed we don't. I'm all for the ME becoming something like the EU or a federation or confederacy and of course Turkey would be the driver due to the sheer size of their economy just like Germany is in Europe.

 

[Azih]

The way Turkey has acted in regards to ISIS is beyond despicable.

 

[nynt9]

Bullshit.

Hold a referendum if you think Kurds just love being a part of Turkey.

Then why is the Kurdish party, which was elected into parliament in the recent election by the way, campaigning for integration instead of separation?

who is talking about Turkey's attraction? lol i'm calling you on your bullshit that Turkey is simply holding Kurds hostage. Kurds are a huge part of Turkey and always will be..
If you think that the solution to all this is as simply as cutting away part of Turkey and leaving millions of Turks that live there to the mercy of the PKK you are crazy and/or incredibly uninformed.

You seriously think the 2+ millions Kurds in Istanbul and millions in the other big cities in the west would simply pack their bags ask for a Kurdish pass and go to Kurdistan? I can tell you right now that won't happen
Kurds are way too interwoven into Turkey for a separation of Turkey into a Kurdistan to happen without a huge war inside the nation that benefits no one.

This. Kurds are part of the population. The population is too integrated for a secession like that.

 

[CrunchyB]

So, I guess the Kurdish political party's recent success that is keeping Erdogan from forming a government has nothing to do with any of this?

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/07/31/turkeys-erdogan-uses-terror-fight-for-political-gain.html

 

[Stereogatari]

Also let's not fool ourselves, this is an ethnic conflict that has been going on for decades. Turkey plain hates Kurds and vice versa.

No civilized sides here.

That's like saying the Afghan/Iraq wars were America VS Muslims.

Then why is the Kurdish party, which was elected into parliament in the recent election by the way, campaigning for integration instead of separation?



This. Kurds are part of the population. The population is too integrated for a secession like that.

Exactly. It's like how UK is of English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish people.

 

[Frustrated_me]

So, I guess the Kurdish political party's recent success that is keeping Erdogan from forming a government has nothing to do with any of this?

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/07/31/turkeys-erdogan-uses-terror-fight-for-political-gain.html

This has everything to do with it.

 

[Frustrated_me]

Stereogatari what are your thoughts on Erdogan and the AKP pushing to kill off the HDP?

For those who don't know, HDP is the minority political group who mainly represents the Turkish Kurds. Erdogan lost his majority in the lest elections due to mainly HDP taking his votes.

 

[Stereogatari]

Stereogatari what are your thoughts on Erdogan and the AKP pushing to kill off the HDP?

For those who don't know, HDP is the minority political group who mainly represents the Turkish Kurds. Erdogan lost his majority in the lest elections due to mainly HDP taking his votes.

I think the breakdown of the ceasefire is useful to him. Stirring up nationalist feelings will ensure 3 things:

1. HDP could be closed down due to PKK links.
2. Turks will not vote for HDP anymore.
3. Non-AKP voters will vote AKP to ensure a proper govt is formed so there can be a strong retaliation to PKK.

 

[Frustrated_me]

Everyone is well aware of the fact that the resurgence of the fights (between Turks and Kurds) is a result of the AKP loosing it's parliamentary majority. It's such a damn shame Erdogan fucked up the peace talks and started to bomb Kurds in Syria to gain votes for the upcoming snap elections.

Turkey embarrasses me. We were once the role model of the region, we're now a shady country once again returning to our insurgency days fighting off a military group that represents 20 million or so Kurds who live in Turkey.

Erdogan is fucking up this country so bad.

 

[Frustrated_me]

I think the breakdown of the ceasefire is useful to him. Stirring up nationalist feelings will ensure 3 things:

1. HDP could be closed down due to PKK links.
2. Turks will not vote for HDP anymore.
3. Non-AKP voters will vote AKP to ensure a proper govt is formed so there can be a strong retaliation to PKK.

In a bizarre world, I want the CHP and the HDP to form a coalition and break the AKP power hold. I hate the fact that AKP is supporting ISIS and turning the country into a radicalized shit hole.

 

[Stereogatari]

In a bizarre world, I want the CHP and the HDP to form a coalition and break the AKP power hold. I hate the fact that AKP is supporting ISIS and turning the country into a radicalized shit hole.

I too wish the 3 opposition parties came to an agreement like that, but nonetheless I don't the country is becoming super radicalised (like other parts of the Muslim World) and is still quite progressive overall. Remember, AKP's Islam is more comparable to the Republican party's Chrisitanity, than to radical Islam.

 

[Frustrated_me]

Remember, AKP's Islam is more comparable to the Republican party's Chrisitanity, than to radical Islam.

Go to Gazi Antep area, Konya and other known religious cities.

I've seen new government buildings get built with "WOMAN" and "MAN" entrances.

What the hell is that?

 

[Stereogatari]

Everyone is well aware of the fact that the resurgence of the fights (between Turks and Kurds) is a result of the AKP loosing it's parliamentary majority. It's such a damn shame Erdogan fucked up the peace talks and started to bomb Kurds in Syria to gain votes for the upcoming snap elections.

Turkey embarrasses me. We were once the role model of the region, we're now a shady country once again returning to our insurgency days fighting off a military group that represents 20 million or so Kurds who live in Turkey.

Erdogan is fucking up this country so bad.

The whole "role model" thing was back when the Western Media used to love Erdogan.

Go to Gazi Antep area, Konya and other known religious cities.

I've seen new government buildings get built with "WOMAN" and "MAN" entrances.

What the hell is that?

I admit I never visit those places so I don't have a good enough opinion on the whole country.

I visit Istanbul, Antalya and Ege whenever I'm in Turkey. I obviously only see one side of our country.

 

[Yamauchi]

Erdogan is re-igniting the conflict so that he can demonize the HDP and call new elections which he hopes this time he'll actually win. Turkey has already arrested hundreds of HDP activists.

The PKK won't die because Kurdish nationalism also won't die, and there is no other viable outlet for it within Turkish society. PKK guerrillas have been fighting in those mountains for three decades against NATO's second largest army, and in many respects they are today stronger than they have ever been. Calling them 'terrorists' may make the conflict easier for a simple mind to understand -- and certainly the PKK has a history of violence and has committed indefensible acts (suicide bombing, violent coercion and intimidation, etc.) -- but it says nothing of this war's intricacies. What of the Turkish military's destruction of 3,000 villages, their forcible displacement of over 500,000 Kurdish civilians, and their killing of thousands of civilians as well? Feel free to read Human Rights Watch's reports on Turkey's killing machine in the southeast. As Gerald Seymour keenly observed, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

 

[KingK]

PKK is a terrorist/guerrilla organisation by acting this way. Turkish state is an oppressive state that sat on its arse when 37 civilians where killed in a Kurd area and only reacted when a soldier was killed by IS and even then it bombed the Kurds disproportionally more than IS, actually. Practically using IS as an excuse to bomb the Kurds.

Not to mention the support that Erdogan had given to IS before all this happened.

The only innocents in this story are the Turkish soldiers and Kurds civilians killed and wounded. RIP.

Yep. It doesn't excuse PKK or terrorist tactics, and i can't argue against pursuing the attackers, but somehow i doubt Turkey will use very much discretion in which Kurds they bomb. Turkey has been acting in a fucking disgusting manner in regards to all of this. They'd rather kill Kurds than do anything about ISIS. And according to the documents obtained in that US raid, Turkey was a de facto ally of ISIS. There really needs to be an independent Kurdistan.

 

[18-Volt]

Indeed we don't. I'm all for the ME becoming something like the EU or a federation or confederacy and of course Turkey would be the driver due to the sheer size of their economy just like Germany is in Europe.

That would never happen. First, Arabs would never want Turkey inside their "Union". Second, similiar thing already exists, called Arab League. The League already have some plans like single currency, single army and open borders for the future. Neither Turkey, Israel and Iran would be included in those plans.

 

[gutter_trash]

what a mess,

and Turkey wants to remove Assad.


yes Assad is an ass but removing him would create another power vacuum.

look at Iraq, it's a mess.

look at Libya, it's a mess

 

[hohoXD123]

You don't even know who "Kurds" are. The ones supporting PKK terrorism are in the minority, terrorists don't have any legitimacy to represent the Kurds. The Turkish govt itself consists of many Kurds and it is best buddies with the KRG and we have HDP in parliament, though they're losing votes due to their stance on terror.

As long as PKK terrorism exist, there won't be peace. Lay down your arms and talk. Violence doesn't solve anything, now tons of Turks are enlisting to fight terror.

The best thing for the region is a strong Turkey that unites the entire Middle East and gives the multiple nations autonomy, like before it was 100 years ago. Since the imperialist English balkanized and colonized the region it turned into a shithole with sectarian and religious violence since the breakup. No more Balkanization, the region should and will unite.



You can't blame him for not knowing anything about the country, the Western media make it seem like Turkey is waging a war on Kurds and not on terrorists who kill their servicemen, when the govt of Turkey that wages that war has elected tons of Kurdish MP's.

As long as Erdogan is in power trying to do away with those pesky elected Kurdish MPs to get his majority along with the racist ultra-right parties then there can be no peace either. Please lets not pretend that there isn't still a lingering animosity towards Kurds and discrimination against them in Turkey, you don't just go from trying to stamp out their language and very culture to complete acceptance of it and their inclusion within society so easily.

 

[Jhriad]

PKK. ISIS. What's the difference? Same cowardly tactics.

The regional governor did not say how the PKK had been identified as the group behind the blast.

Barring overwhelming evidence that it isn't the PKK, Turkey will spin any attack as originating from the PKK so they can justify their focus being almost exclusively on air strikes on PKK positions rather than ISIS. Saying they're bombing both is being disingenuous as they've only made token strikes against IS so far whereas they've had dozens of sorties against PKK positions. Said focus on bombing PKK positions also increases the likelihood of retaliatory attacks (like this one, if it's proven to be the PKK rather than a false flag operation by IS) which will reinforce Turkey's position of attacking PKK positions. Turkey is simply using the situation to their advantage and largely ignoring ISIS.

 

[kess]

It should be noted that the Iraqi government has condemned the Turkish attacks on Iraqi soil. Turkey has always had a dim view of Kurdish sovereignty in the area ever since losing the so-called "Mosul Question". and more recently, the Hood Event is still a major topic in Turkey, when Americans escorted Turkish Special Forces out of Northern Iraq. The Turkish government has stated a clear interest in the Syrian Turkmen Brigades and the Iraqi Turkmen Front.

 

[Devil]

There is no denying that the PKK are terrorists and that they killed these two policeman first.

But I'll bring up an important term in this: commensurability/proportionality.

Turkeys heavy attack on PKK compared to the (extremely late and rather little) attacks on ISIS is not proportionally justified at all. Yes, PKK (a group of separatists, using violence) endangered the ceasefire first, but should that really provoke Turkey (a sovereign state) to immediately start bombing them and therefore confirming the break of the ceasefire, risking a heavy setback in this matter which has caused so many lives already, as well as further backlashes like the one in OP?

Because these attacks are so disproportionate Turkey rightfully has to face arguments about them not really being committed against the fight against ISIS and are using it as nothing else but a backdoor to diminish Kurdish influence on the region. Let's not forget that they also attacked Kurds in Syria and not just the PKK in Iraq on the very first of the attacks, which quickly stopped after just that, probably because that was not part of the agreement between the US and Turkey.

Erdogan's obvious plan to weaken the HDP with any means necessary for the upcoming re-election plays into this picture as well.

 

[Mostmanlyman]

Damn. One of my friends is spending the summer in turkey hopeful nothing has happen to him.

 

[kess]

BTW, the Turkish border patrol just denied entry to the bodies of YPG fighters who were reportedly killed by ISIS.

The Americans are currently giving air support to the YPG, who just expelled ISIS from the Northern Syrian town of Hasakah.

 

[Suen]

The reason people like the PKK more than ISIS is because the PKK fights for a minority oppressed by a large state while ISIS is just fighting to murder people. And in this instance we get angry at Turkey for attacking the PKK more than ISIS (in retaliation to 2 kills by the PKK vs 37 kills by ISIS...) which will clearly benefit ISIS. Also for clearly taunting the Kurds by announcing a national grieving day for every little crap like some Saudi king but declaring 37 dead Kurds not worth that.

ISIS is about as popular as Adolf Hitler around here, Turkey helping them through a combination of inaction against them and action against their enemies makes the Turkish government a bunch of scum. Not that that's a new thing given how much crap that govt has pulled lately...

Pretty much. PKK has also been the only force in the Kurdish parts of Iraq that has effectively fought and continues to fight against ISIS while Barzani & Peshmerga has done the following:

Watched from distance as PKK and Iraqi army fought against ISIS
Barely launched attacks on ISIS or tried to retake territory from them
Abandoned Yezidis in villages in Iraq for not pledging alliance to Barzani & Peshmerga and accepting to be under their mafia rule
Looted Iraqi army bases while ISIS was taking areas
Been lying about not receiving weapons and have been lobbying abroad for more weapons among other things, directly going against the effort of the central government in Iraq
Ethnic cleansing of Arabs from cities that falls within their regions.

There's a bunch of other thing too of course. Unlike Peshmerga, a force that mostly consists of cowards that run away from ISIS (all while receiving weapons, weapons that weren't intended to be used towards ISIS but as a deterrence towards Iraq while they keep leeching from Iraq's budget) PKK has actually been fighting back and launched attacks on ISIS.

Meanwhile Barzani has more or less given Turkey the green light to bomb the shit out of PKK since they are a rival faction in Iraq.

Then we have the West parading around the biggest lie they've made together with Barzani and his gang: Peshmerga are the best fighting force against ISIS in Iraq which is far from the truth for anyone slightly more interested in the events there. Meanwhile the scum terrorist nation Turkey is once again bombing an active fighting force against ISIS, something that doesn't come as a surprise when they've been giving free passage to ISIS in Syria and wanted Kobane to fall down to IS.

So we have Turkey - Peshmerga in close alliance and the West supporting and accepting the lobbying of Peshmerga. We have Turkey bombing forces fighting against ISIS and the Peshmerga gang actively accepting and supporting it. We also have Qatar, UAE and Saudi Arabia, all very close friends to the West. Shouldn't be too hard to connect the dots.

 

[entremet]

Not recently, but in the 90s they did it regularly.


Rrminds me of this:

Looks like a Pokemon type chart.

 

[KDR_11k]

Looks like a Pokemon type chart.

Also looks very idealized with ISIS having no friends listed.

 

[boiled goose]

War sucks.

But this was a military target at least. Turkey is bombing them too....

 

[Stereogatari]

War sucks.

But this was a military target at least. Turkey is bombing them too....

Would that line of thought also work for terror attacks on US military targets?

 

[Shuggananas]

Also looks very idealized with ISIS having no friends listed.

yep, sounds like idealistic bullshit to me

 

[Lovely Salsa]

Not recently, but in the 90s they did it regularly.


Rrminds me of this:

So israel and egypt are bff's? lol

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

So israel and egypt are bff's? lol

did you not know that?

 

[MisterFalcon]

So israel and egypt are bff's? lol

An 'it's complicated' would be better here. There would also need to be a split between the various governments and the population. Even though the Saudi government is an enemy of ISIS there is a lot of Saudi support for ISIS which makes a carpet bombing campaign like the one in Yemen impossible. Most of the Egyptian population would also consider Israel an enemy even though the government at the moment has quite good relations with them.

 

[Lovely Salsa]

did you not know that?

Im sure egyptian people feel the same way.

youtubelinkprankonegyptiancelebritiesdotcom

 

[RamzaIsCool]

Kind of odd considering they've never used suicide bombers before. I wouldn't compare them to ISIS, they are more like Hamas or Hezbollah.

Except they have kinda done those kind of things before. For example.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE84P0FZ20120526

PKK are terrorist, there is no ifs or buts they scum like other terrorists. Turkey threated the Kurds badly/ horrible and are largely to blame to the creation of such a group. That I get, but to justify the PKK acts in the context of a "freedom" struggle is just fucked up.

I voted HDP last election and I have no links to the kurds whatsoever (both my parents are from Trabzon/ Of, that's one of the most nationalistic/ religious parts of Turkey). I like Selahattin Demirtas and if there is going to peace in the country it's going by means of political integration not by violence!

 

[Alo0oy]

Not recently, but in the 90s they did it regularly.


Rrminds me of this:

Half the stuff in that chart is completely wrong.

 

[Yeoman]

Funnily enough they have a better treatment of women than the states they fight.

What do you mean by this (and before you post think very carefully about your answer)?

 

[Stereogatari]

Except they have kinda done those kind of things before. For example.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE84P0FZ20120526

PKK are terrorist, there is no ifs or buts they scum like other terrorists. Turkey threated the Kurds badly/ horrible and are largely to blame to the creation of such a group. That I get, but to justify the PKK acts in the context of a "freedom" struggle is just fucked up.

I voted HDP last election and I have no links to the kurds whatsoever (both my parents are from Trabzon/ Of, that's one of the most nationalistic/ religious parts of Turkey). I like Selahattin Demirtas and if there is going to peace in the country it's going by means of political integration not by violence!

I don't get why Western Media is so in love with the PKK. It's not just a new thing because of their fighting with ISIS, but it's something that used to be true 10 years ago as well. I remember a decade or so ago, BBC interviewed Murat Karayilan and they said he looked more like "a gentle uncle" than a terror leader. Imagine an interview with Bin Laden in a similar manner...

Is all this Turcophobia a legacy of the Ottoman Empire and European butthurt at "barbarian" presence in historical Ancient Greek lands? Or is it just the left-wing nature of Europe is so far up their asses that they can't say no to supporting a pseudo-left wing organisation against a "facist" Turkish State.

It boggles my mind. Usually the Western media subtlely tells us that "White modern military people = good guys, Brown terrorist towel-head people = bad guys", except when it comes to Turkey VS PKK, all of a sudden "White modern military people = bad" and "Brown terrorist towel-head people = good". Sorry to say something like this, but it's something I couldn't help but notice with regards to the differeing perceptions some Western people have towards Turkey VS PKK terrorists and towards American/British VS Afghan/Iraqi etc. terrorists.

While my sympathies did slightly lie with HDP in the previous election so they could reach the threshold, I don't think I could hold that same kind of sympathy now. But then I suppose that's exactly what Erdogan would want to happen isn't it...

Funnily enough they have a better treatment of women than the states they fight.

What do you mean by this (and before you post think very carefully about your answer)?

The funny thing is the reality is totally the opposite. The part of Turkey with the least developed womens rights overlaps with...

 

[Walshicus]

Is all this Turcophobia a legacy of the Ottoman Empire and European butthurt at "barbarian" presence in historical Ancient Greek lands? Or is it just the left-wing nature of Europe is so far up their asses that they can't say no to supporting a pseudo-left wing organisation against a "facist" Turkish State.

Or is it that we see one of the largest stateless nations being subjected to shit from the Turks, Iraqis, Syrians and Iranians and have that thing we call basic Human compassion and respect for the principle of self determination?

Kurds have been fighting for their own state to get away from your shit for how long? We're not talking about something that's sprung up overnight, it's a legitimate independence movement that's had to resort to violence as your fucked up government (and others) have refused to provide a peaceful political mechanism for determining whether independence has majority approval for Kurds (which it almost certainly does).


I mean there's not much that the government in Westminster has done right lately, but actively engaging with independence movements in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and trying to promote integration while still allowing referenda on separation is something people of all UK countries can be proud of; especially given our history in Eire.

You want an end to paramilitary attacks against the Turkish state? Provide a mechanism by which Kurds can determine whether they leave or stay. Until then you're collectively idiots if you can't see why a portion of 15m people might turn to violence against a state that has always treated them as second class citizens and sought to eradicate their national identity.

 

[Chariot]

What do you mean by this (and before you post think very carefully about your answer)?

The funny thing is the reality is totally the opposite. The part of Turkey with the least developed womens rights overlaps with...

You will be glad to hear that I was already corrected earlier in this thread.

 

[dakun]

Provide a mechanism by which Kurds can determine whether they leave or stay.

Leave or stay? Are you really that dense? You still talk about the UK example as if that's in any way applicable to the issues in Turkey.

You proof again and again that you have no idea what's going on in Turkey.

 

[Walshicus]

Leave or stay? Are you really that dense? You still talk about the UK example as if that's in any way applicable to the issues in Turkey.

They are absolutely 100% applicable! Nations subsumed within larger states that have ongoing independence movements.

The fact that you can't even enunciate why giving Kurds a say on their own political future is anything other than a no brainer is telling.